[ EPU Foyer ] [ Lab and Grill ] [ Bonus Theater!! ] [ Rhetorical Questions ] [ CSRANTronix ] [ GNDN ] [ Subterranean Vault ] [ Discussion Forum ] [ Gun of the Week ]

Eyrie Productions, Unlimited

Subject: "2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too." Archived thread - Read only
    Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy    
Conferences General Topic #1454
Reading Topic #1454
The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
1197 posts		 Nov-22-16, 06:10 AM (EDT)
Click to EMail The%20Traitor Click to send private message to The%20Traitor Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
"2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too."
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-16 AT 08:14 AM (EST) by pjmoyer (moderator)
 
We might have a way off this rock. The linked article has a link to the published paper at the bottom.

The EM drive, that hokey, fake-looking copper loudhailer thing from 2014... seems to work. And it seems to work well. The thrust is 1.2 millinewtons per kilowatt. There's no fuel involved beyong electricity. This could be hugely important. And this isn't just some munter in a shed - this is NASA testing it.

I want so badly for this to be real. You have no idea how badly. Superluminal neutrinos let me down. Please don't let this let me down as well.

Don't fuck this up for me, 2016.

Please.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.


  Printer-friendly page | Top

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too. Peter Eng Nov-22-16 1
  RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too. SpottedKitty Nov-23-16 2
     RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too. zwol Nov-23-16 3
     RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too. Offsides Nov-23-16 4
  RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too. rwpikul Nov-24-16 5
     RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too. MuninsFire Nov-28-16 6

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Peter Eng
Charter Member
2051 posts		 Nov-22-16, 07:21 PM (EDT)
Click to EMail Peter%20Eng Click to send private message to Peter%20Eng Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too."
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-16 AT 07:22 PM (EST)
 
>We might have a way off this rock. The linked article has a link to the
>published paper at the bottom.
>
>The EM drive, that hokey, fake-looking copper loudhailer thing from
>2014... seems to work. And it seems to work well.

Even if the "how" of it is still more "We have no clue" than anything else. However, as Phillip Francis Nowlan wrote, "Men used bows and arrows long before the Laws of Motion were proposed."

>
>I want so badly for this to be real. You have no idea how badly.
>Superluminal neutrinos let me down. Please don't let this let me down
>as well.
>
>Don't fuck this up for me, 2016.
>
>Please.
>

If I remember correctly, by the time this is ready to test, it'll be 2017.

So there's something to hope for.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
SpottedKitty
Member since Jun-15-04
605 posts		 Nov-23-16, 12:25 PM (EDT)
Click to EMail SpottedKitty Click to send private message to SpottedKitty Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too."
In response to message #0
 
   Intriguing; I'll be looking out for the results of the space test with great interest.

That's not a lot of inherent thrust, though — if there isn't a lot of improvement in efficiency tucked away somewhere, it might be like the ion drive, only useable once you've got into orbit.

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
zwol
Member since Feb-24-12
299 posts		 Nov-23-16, 01:27 PM (EDT)
Click to EMail zwol Click to send private message to zwol Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too."
In response to message #2
 
   Yeah, 1.2 mN/kW is one or two orders of magnitude worse than an ion drive; on the other hand, it's three orders of magnitude better than a photon drive. Which is important primarily because it tells us that however this thing works, it's not a photon drive.

Since we're not only in exotic physics land, but in "there were really compelling reasons to believe this was impossible" land, I doubt anyone has any idea whether you can get the thrust-to-weight, -power, and -engine-size ratios to the point where it can overcome planetary gravity. If it could be done, it would immediately have a whole bunch of other applications as well as space propulsion.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Offsides
Charter Member
1264 posts		 Nov-23-16, 03:29 PM (EDT)
Click to EMail Offsides Click to send private message to Offsides Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too."
In response to message #2
 
   It's not intended to get you into orbit, it's intended to eliminate the need to carry huge quantities of fuel up to orbit in order to get you from orbit around point A to orbit around point B. Right now, even the best propulsion sources need fuel mass (read: dead weight) to propel it through space. This means that you need extra thrust/fuel to propel the fuel, which needs more fuel, etc. It's not an infinite loop since it's an asymptotic function, but realistically for very long distances you can end up needing a lot more fuel to push the fuel than you do just the rocket. Assuming this works the way it's been showing results, you only need enough thrust fuel to get you:

1) into orbit
2) out of orbit fast enough to be pointed in the right direction
3) back into orbit when you arrive
4) emergency maneuvers

You still need fuel for power generation, and any landing/return to orbit vehicles you might be carrying, but it's going to be a lot less than with any other type of propulsion we're using right now...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


  Printer-friendly page | Top
rwpikul
Member since Jun-22-03
224 posts		 Nov-24-16, 10:57 AM (EDT)
Click to EMail rwpikul Click to send private message to rwpikul Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
5. "RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too."
In response to message #0
 
   Looking into it I have some bad news for you: The results reported in this paper are very weak and iffy. There are only a grand total of 18 measurements over three power settings and two of those settings show no significant difference from each other. The third, lower, setting clusters in a way that looks suspicious to my eye, (the small measurement count is also something of a red flag).

Also Eagleworks isn't really NASA, it's their 'spend spare time looking into oddball ideas' group with a budget that boils down to 'you can borrow things no one else is using.' Think of it as a munter in a shed with a brother at NASA who can get him access to equipment at night.

--
Chakat Firepaw - Inventor & Scientist (Mad)


  Printer-friendly page | Top
MuninsFire
Member since Mar-27-07
457 posts		 Nov-28-16, 02:20 AM (EDT)
Click to EMail MuninsFire Click to send private message to MuninsFire Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
6. "RE: 2016, Don't you DARE fuck this up too."
In response to message #5
 
   Yeah, I'm none too confident about this either. Given the likelihood of "thing that breaks Newton's third law" vs. "some overlooked measurement error" I'm going to be betting with Newton.

I remember those supposed 'superluminal' neutrinos that turned out to be a GPS clock error too well.

I'd -love- for this to be something new and interesting, but I suspect it's either measurement problems of some kind or it's vaporizing the 'reaction chamber' and that's providing occult reaction mass.

But hey, those are things that further testing will be able to tell us - so keep your fingers crossed.

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea


  Printer-friendly page | Top

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

[ YUM ] [ BIG ] [ ??!? ] [ RANT ] [ GNDN ] [ STORE ] [ FORUM ] GOTW ] [ VAULT ]

version 3.3 © 2001
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
Benjamin D. Hutchins
E P U (Colour)