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Redneck
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Oct-12-01, 00:13 AM (EST)
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""Charismatic" Vulcans"
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-01 AT 02:19 AM (EDT)

(since -nobody- has -ever- asked)

CHARISMATIC VULCANS
(see also: Way of Sybok)

The Charismatic movement among the Vulcan people has only arisen in the past century or so, and in that time it has become one of the most controversial subjects related to Vulcan in galactic philosophy or politics.

In 2331 a young student of philosophies at the Vulcan Science Academy, Sybok, published a paper which denounced the Way of Surak. Surak, the man who had unified Vulcan fifteen hundred years before through the suppression of emotion and the elevation of logic, had done a great disservice to the Vulcan people, Sybok claimed, who had lost a great deal of their innate selves to the total suppression of culture and individuality. Only when logic and passion were united, he claimed, could Vulcan's long era of stagnation end.

Sybok's paper was calmly but firmly critiqued into the dirt by Vulcan's leading minds, including his own teachers. The Vulcan capacity for passion, and hence for self-destruction, was too great to allow emotions to overpower reason, they argued. Only by strict suppression, or even elimination, of those emotions could Vulcan survive.

Despite this rebuke, Sybok persisted in both his education and his views, and in 2333 he was expelled from the Academy. Undaunted, he decided to prove his views by engaging in unlicensed telepathic therapy with alien races, using his philosophy of emotional freedom to better understand the pain in others, and to return balance to their minds. When his efforts were revealed, he was banished from Vulcan, and when fifty or so other Vulcans followed him no real notice was taken.

In banishing Sybok, the councils of Vulcan made a grave error. Where before they could use society as a means of limiting his effect on nearby Vulcans, now they had no such buffer to offset Sybok's sheer force of personality. Although he was not universally -liked- by any means, there was a strange charisma about him which compelled people to at least listen to his words... and many who listened found something which resonated within them. The popular name for Sybok's followers, the 'Charismatic Vulcans,' is based off of a typo in one newssheet's coverage of 'the Charismatic prophet Sybok.' (The C was not meant to be capitalized.)

By 2340 Sybok's philosophies had once more arisen on Vulcan, brought back there by converts and aliens who had met Sybok during his wanderings through the galaxy. Converts in ones and twos denounced the Way of Surak and declared themselves exiles before the Vulcan Councils could react. Once among the stars, they repeated Sybok's cycle, always encouraging the converted to tell others in turn.

Although Sybok himself has vanished among the worlds of the modern Federation, his followers continue to grow in number. Estimates of their numbers range from the Vulcan government's low estimate of 35,000 to a high guess of 400,000 by the Psi Corps. The only known static population of Charismatics, about 22,000 as of 2400, is in the Confederate Freespacers Alliance, where they make up roughly 50% of the total Vulcan-race minority of that nation. In any case, they make up an extremely tiny fraction of the 14 billion Vulcans in the Federation today.

Despite their small numbers, the Charismatic movement is regarded in several circles as a direct threat. The conservative elements on Vulcan believe Sybok's teachings to be subversive and dangerous, and they use every means in their power short of outright censorship to suppress their dissemination. Xenophobes from all races point to the Charismatics as a dangerous influence, in the same way Earth regarded the Mormon Church during its first century of existence. The Charismatics were specifically cited in the debates on the passage of the first 'Psi Act' and the creation of the Psi Corps.

The Charismatics also have their partisans in this controversy. In addition to the Freespacers, who have opened their doors to the Charismatics as well as psi-active humans and cybernetic intelligences fleeing persecution, nations such as the Zeta Cygni Republic, the Salusian Empire, the Minbari Empire, and the Star Kingdom of Manticore have openly expressed support for the Charismatics' right to believe and practice their beliefs.

In the end analysis, the Charismatics are a microcosm of the larger issues regarding telepathy and telepaths. The followers of Sybok may well, in the end, find their freedom joined with the freedom of telepaths of other races, regardless of creed. Whether their movement will prosper or be silenced remains to be seen.

--- Redneck

(Note: Sleik, chief of state of the Freespacers in 2388, is a Charismatic Vulcan; T'Pall, subordinate of Aya Nakajima, is a traditional Vulcan (follower of Surak).)

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Gryphonadmin Oct-12-01 1
  RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans ejheckathorn Oct-12-01 2
     RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Redneck Oct-12-01 3
  RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Redneck Oct-12-01 4
  RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Nathan Oct-12-01 5
     RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Zenigame Oct-12-01 6
         RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Laudre Oct-12-01 7
         RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Gryphonadmin Oct-12-01 9
             RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Redneck Oct-12-01 10
                 RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Matrix Dragon Oct-12-01 11
                 RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Mephronmoderator Oct-14-01 12
     RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans Redneck Oct-12-01 8

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Gryphonadmin
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19258 posts
Oct-12-01, 00:47 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #0
 
   >(Note: Sleik, chief of state of the Freespacers in 2388, is a
>Charismatic Vulcan; T'Pall, subordinate of Aya Nakajima, is a
>traditional Vulcan (follower of Surak).)

(Heh, coincidentally, I'd been thinking of maybe mentioning this sometime soon... )

There is also a small but growing movement within Vulcan society, especially among the young, which maintains that humor holds the key to the true integration of Vulcan logic and Vulcan passion, that only if the Vulcan people rediscover how to laugh at themselves can they truly be at peace. This faction lacks a Vulcan figurehead at whom its followers can point, like the Charismatics have Sybok, but they do often refer to the works of the human Derek Bacon, who is widely considered the living master of the human philosophy that a sentient who cannot laugh at himself is not truly alive.

There are no examples of this faction yet, nor does it have a name, but that will probably change within a RL year or so...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
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Oct-12-01, 01:21 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #0
 
   >the Minbari Empire, and the Star Kingdom of Manticore

Just curious... is it the Minbari Empire in UF? I seem to recall it was the Minbari Federation in B5.

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net

Eric J. Heckathorn


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Redneck
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Oct-12-01, 02:11 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #2
 
   I'd forgotten what the B5 name was, actually.

However, the names of polities in UF are -very- flexible. The term 'star empire' is the generic name of any multi-world government. Other nations have been referred to with multiple names, such as the Cardassian Empire/Regime, for instance. It usually depends on who's doing the talking... }:-{D

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


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Redneck
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Oct-12-01, 02:15 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-01 AT 02:15 AM (EDT)

Oh, one other thing.

Sybok, in UF, is -not- Spock's half-brother, nor does he at any time travel to the center of the galaxy looking for Eden. We have our standards.

Redneck (Vulcan princess, my ass)

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


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Nathan
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Oct-12-01, 06:43 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #0
 
   >fleeing persecution, nations such as the Zeta Cygni Republic, the
>Salusian Empire, the Minbari Empire, and the Star Kingdom of Manticore

Note that all of the above are closely associated, either in their source material or in UF, with the role of the "Good Guy".

I'm not sure what that means, but I bet it means something.

Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter
(Wondering what takes the place of the wormhole junction in UF Manticore's economy...)

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


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Zenigame
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Oct-12-01, 11:33 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #5
 
   Nathan wrote:

Note that all of the above are closely associated, either in their source material or in UF, with the role of the "Good Guy".

I'm not sure what that means, but I bet it means something.

Well, there are two ways that I can think of to interpret this:

  • that these 'good guy' nations are acting in accordance with Voltaire's "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it," or
  • that the Eyrie writers, like the Star Trek writers, enjoy Vulcan-bashing. Perhaps I should qualify that statement before I get my head torn off; it's my perception that Star Trek has more or less consistently treated Vulcans as people who really need to lighten up. This could be seen even in 'Classic' Trek, but the new show really indulges in the Vulcan-bashing. (The last show was almost entirely about the hideous consequences that befell an away team when they happily bunked on an uninhabited planet without listening to the Vulcan first officer's suggestions to run some tests and send some probes first-- but unless I missed it, no one thought, much less said, that maybe next time it might be a good idea to listen to the person who helped save their bacon.)

Of course, which is the correct interpretation will likely be seen in their writings; I doubt this mention of the movement was completely unrelated to anything in development...

--Zenigame, who wishes the androids and aliens would occasionally aspire to be more Klingon


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Laudre
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Oct-12-01, 11:42 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #6
 
   >(The last show was
>almost entirely about the hideous consequences that befell an away
>team when they happily bunked on an uninhabited planet without
>listening to the Vulcan first officer's suggestions to run some tests
>and send some probes first-- but unless I missed it, no one thought,
>much less said, that maybe next time it might be a good idea to listen
>to the person who helped save their bacon.)

I think Trip's sort-of apology to T'Pol is the closest they (the crew and officers of NX-01) will get to admitting that maybe they still have some things to learn from the Vulcans. Which, I think, is the point; the Vulcans lack the particular drives (though their control is not perfect, as has been demonstrated several times) to draw the greatest amount of knowledge possible from exploration, while humans could get themselves killed if they proceed without at least some Vulcan caution.

I do like that the Eyrie crew has managed to make something interesting out of the mess that was Star Trek V.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-12-01, 04:13 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #6
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-01 AT 04:16 PM (EDT)

>that the Eyrie writers, like the Star Trek writers, enjoy
>Vulcan-bashing.

Well, sure - I mean, I'm no xenophobe, as long as they're reasonably humanoid and don't, you know, smell funny or anything, I -

... oh, bashing. Sorry. My mistake.

>my head torn off; it's my perception that Star Trek has
>more or less consistently treated Vulcans as people who really need to
>lighten up.

Um... that's because Vulcans are people who really need to lighten up.

Or at least they're a people who really need to lighten up. They're so... tense. The teachings of Surak are an overcompensation for the situation that spawned them, and I suspect (as do, in the UF universe at least, quite a few Vulcans, most of them young) they are not only no longer necessary in the modern universe, but a hindrance. Logic is all well and good, and a terribly useful tool, but it's only one tool. The Vulcans suffer badly from the "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" problem. It's my belief that suppressing all emotions when you have pretty powerful ones to start with is a bad idea. It might make for a quiet planet, but I suspect the Vulcans have more than their share of clocktower snipers.

(Can you see the news item now? "Neighbors described Stuvek as 'quiet' and 'reserved,' 'the last person one would expect to commit such an act.'")

Now, as a UF character, I like Vulcans - that ought to be pretty obvious - but all the ones I've had much close contact with have deviated somewhat from Surak's teachings. They've figured out that being humorless automatons doesn't really go well with the vaunted Vulcan tradition of courtesy, for one thing. :) (Admittedly, only two of the four Vulcans I've been shown to be on a named basis with are pure-blooded, and of those two, one is a Charismatic and kind of a nutball besides, but... :)

I figure it's a self-discovery process like any other - some Vulcans figure it out, adapt themselves, and become possessed of a graceful, rather wry humor that nicely complements their rational bearing and goes a long way toward making them likeable to an impulsive, irrational human like me. Others, though, just turn into insufferable stiffs with major repression-based psychological issues, like Sarek. And as I mentioned above, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that some - perhaps quite a few - just crack outright. Since they have a vested interest in maintaining the illusion that their way is the only way that works, the Surakites would be inclined to keep that little fact away from the galactic population as a whole...

>--Zenigame, who wishes the androids and aliens would occasionally
>aspire to be more Klingon

You know, it's a real funny coincidence that you should say that. Bordering on creepy.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Redneck
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Oct-12-01, 05:40 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #9
 
  

>Now, as a UF character, I like Vulcans - that ought to be
>pretty obvious - but all the ones I've had much close contact with
>have deviated somewhat from Surak's teachings. They've figured out
>that being humorless automatons doesn't really go well with the
>vaunted Vulcan tradition of courtesy, for one thing. :) (Admittedly,
>only two of the four Vulcans I've been shown to be on a named basis
>with are pure-blooded, and of those two, one is a Charismatic and kind
>of a nutball besides, but... :)

As a general rule, 'he's a Charismatic and kind of a nutball besides' is a redundancy. }:-{D

>And as I mentioned above, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that
>some - perhaps quite a few - just crack outright.

Mentioned in brief, as one of the charges against Aya in her Starfleet court-martial, is the case of Lt. Cdr. Spack. Spack was also in Aya's class and, like her, on the super-accelerated fast track, but he was also a total goit. For you Red Dwarf fans, think Rimmer as a Vulcan.

He finally snapped, according to official records, because of pon farr, but Vulcan psychologists also believe that a deeply repressed fear of Aya Nakajima helped. His actions were technically mutiny, although running around after anything in a skirt shouting, "WOMAN! WOMAN!" is not exactly the same thing as undermining a captain's authority. When he escaped from the brig and resumed his 'attacks,' Aya had him put in stasis and launched off the ship in a torpedo, from which he was eventually rescued by the Klingons. At last report he was stark raving mad and in command of an Imperial Klingon Bird of Prey, searching for some means of revenge against the object of his darkest desires and fears.

One positive aspect of Spack's tale is the medical endorsement of the phrase, "That boy needs to get laid more often."

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


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Matrix Dragon
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Oct-12-01, 08:29 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #10
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-01 AT 09:50 PM (EDT)

>For you Red Dwarf fans, think Rimmer as a Vulcan.

AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!! DON'T DO THAT!!!

>He finally snapped, according to official records, because of
>pon farr, but Vulcan psychologists also believe that a deeply
>repressed fear of Aya Nakajima helped.

Being at least a little afraid of Aya is a good thing. It helps you handle her. But a vulcan repressing that fear.... My god he would have lost it.

>When he escaped from the brig and resumed his 'attacks,' Aya had him
>put in stasis and launched off the ship in a torpedo,

Hey, she reacted pretty calmly, considering that I was half expecting her to point the torp at a black hole.

Overall, more proof that an overly emotional race shouldn't restrict themselves like that. Not only does it take away from the value of life, but when they actually experience the emotions, it's like a inexperienced Jedi beong overwhelmed by the Dark Side.

Matrix Dragon

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Mephronmoderator
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Oct-14-01, 00:07 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #10
 
   >He finally snapped, according to official records, because of pon
>farr, but Vulcan psychologists also believe that a deeply repressed
>fear of Aya Nakajima helped. His actions were technically mutiny,
>although running around after anything in a skirt shouting, "WOMAN!
>WOMAN!" is not exactly the same thing as undermining a captain's
>authority. When he escaped from the brig and resumed his 'attacks,'
>Aya had him put in stasis and launched off the ship in a torpedo, from
>which he was eventually rescued by the Klingons. At last report he was
>stark raving mad and in command of an Imperial Klingon Bird of Prey,
>searching for some means of revenge against the object of his darkest
>desires and fears.
>
>One positive aspect of Spack's tale is the medical endorsement of the
>phrase, "That boy needs to get laid more often."

Bastard.

<SHATTER!>

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals
(They won't give me LARTs, they say that's restricted to Michael.)

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
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Redneck
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Oct-12-01, 01:43 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: "Charismatic" Vulcans"
In response to message #5
 
   >>fleeing persecution, nations such as the Zeta Cygni Republic, the
>>Salusian Empire, the Minbari Empire, and the Star Kingdom of Manticore
>
>Note that all of the above are closely associated, either in their
>source material or in UF, with the role of the "Good Guy".
>
>I'm not sure what that means, but I bet it means something.

It means that I suspected including the Klingons, the Cardassians, and the Hutts was not in the same -spirit- as the others, as the motivations of those three powers are at best highly suspect.

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


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