[ EPU Foyer ] [ Lab and Grill ] [ Bonus Theater!! ] [ Rhetorical Questions ] [ CSRANTronix ] [ GNDN ] [ Subterranean Vault ] [ Discussion Forum ] [ Gun of the Week ]

Eyrie Productions, Unlimited

Subject: "The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet" Archived thread - Read only
 
  Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy    
Conferences Undocumented Features General Topic #154
Reading Topic #154
Berrik_NeueZiel
Charter Member
Oct-16-01, 10:39 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Berrik_NeueZiel Click to send private message to Berrik_NeueZiel Click to add this user to your buddy list  
"The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
 
   Are the Manticore vessels (ie 3-km long super dreadnoughts) different than they were in the books? I'd think a wall of battle using those ships could even give an SDF class vessel a run for it's money. And how do grasers (standard energy armament for Manticorian vessels) work? They seem to be able to penetrate shields in the book series, but since UF uses many different technologies, I'm not sure how they stack up against other vessels, IE Starfleet/GENOM/WDF.


  Printer-friendly page | Top

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Sinapus Oct-16-01 1
  RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet drakensisthered Oct-16-01 2
  RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Gryphonadmin Oct-16-01 3
     RE: MegaRoad Class TRB Oct-18-01 4
     RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet phongn Oct-20-01 5
         RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Gryphonadmin Oct-20-01 6
             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet phongn Oct-20-01 7
                 RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Redneck Oct-20-01 8
                     RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Sneaky Pete Oct-20-01 9
                         RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Gryphonadmin Oct-20-01 10
                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet ejheckathorn Oct-20-01 11
                                 RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Chris Redfield Oct-20-01 12
                                     RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet - Spoilers fo... ejheckathorn Oct-20-01 15
                                         RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet - Spoilers fo... Nathan Oct-21-01 17
                                     RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Pangaro Oct-21-01 16
                                         RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Griever Oct-22-01 18
                                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Matrix Dragon Oct-22-01 20
                                         RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet remandeteam Oct-22-01 19
                                     RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet drakensisthered Oct-23-01 21
                                 RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Mister Fnord Oct-20-01 13
                                     RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Laudre Oct-20-01 14
                                     RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Croaker Oct-25-01 22
                                         RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Nathan Oct-25-01 23
                                         RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet drakensisthered Oct-25-01 24
                                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Croaker Oct-29-01 25
                                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Nathan Oct-29-01 26
                                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet phongn Oct-30-01 31
                                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet drakensisthered Oct-29-01 27
                                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet remandeteam Oct-29-01 28
                                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet drakensisthered Oct-30-01 29
                                             RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet Redneck Oct-30-01 30

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Sinapus
Charter Member
Oct-16-01, 10:57 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Sinapus Click to send private message to Sinapus Click to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #0
 
   >Are the Manticore vessels (ie 3-km long super dreadnoughts) different
>than they were in the books? I'd think a wall of battle using those
>ships could even give an SDF class vessel a run for it's money. And
>how do grasers (standard energy armament for Manticorian vessels)
>work? They seem to be able to penetrate shields in the book series,
>but since UF uses many different technologies, I'm not sure how they
>stack up against other vessels, IE Starfleet/GENOM/WDF.

You might want to go read the "Two Questions" thread.

In short, the ships from Honor Harrington are not going to show up in UF. If any ship names show up, they'll probably be UF variants based on the variety of techs available in that universe. So no impeller wedges, etc.

Patrick Chester
"...could you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"


  Printer-friendly page | Top
drakensisthered
Charter Member
Oct-16-01, 06:23 PM (EST)
Click to EMail drakensisthered Click to send private message to drakensisthered Click to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #0
 
   >Are the Manticore vessels (ie 3-km long super dreadnoughts) different
>than they were in the books? I'd think a wall of battle using those
>ships could even give an SDF class vessel a run for it's money.

Not really - they're not maneuverable enough and they (mostly) can't shield fore or aft. Even a third rate UF navy has ships that could get into those zones and just rip the ships apart.


>And how do grasers (standard energy armament for Manticorian vessels)
>work? They seem to be able to penetrate shields in the book series,
>but since UF uses many different technologies, I'm not sure how they
>stack up against other vessels, IE Starfleet/GENOM/WDF.

Grasers are to Gamma Radiation what Lasers are to Light. Basically more powerful energy weapons but not by a huge amount. Presumably above a certain level, Grasers are more efficent than Lasers so Graser = big energy gun and Laser = small energy gun in the Honor Harrington books. Baen's forum probably has some threads discussing this sort of thing.

drakensisthered

So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of Chaos'


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19261 posts
Oct-16-01, 06:47 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Gryphon Click to send private message to Gryphon Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-01 AT 06:48 PM (EDT)

>Are the Manticore vessels (ie 3-km long super dreadnoughts) different
>than they were in the books?

This has been covered elsewhere (short version: yes), but looking at that length stat, I'd just like to put down a couple of the UF universe's starship superlatives for the record.

The largest warship put to space by a modern civilization is the GENOM Corporation Military Arm Navy's Executioner class of Star Destroyers, at a round eight kilometers in length. (Trust GENOM to use the metric system instead of the galactic standard. :) The Executioner class (sometimes erroneously referred to as the Dreadnaught class or Super class) lacks a Class Omega weapon and has the Star Destroyer line's usual deficiencies in shielding, but is equipped with such numerous turbolaser batteries and so heavily armed that it doesn't really matter much in practical terms. Also, as we have seen in Twilight, for a ship that size, it's remarkably fast and maneuverable.

It's worth pointing out, though, that the Executioner class is a bit of an aberration. It's more than three times bigger than the next largest, the WDF's Megaroad class of Super Dimensional Fortresses, and over seven times the size of its GENOM predecessor, the Imperial class. The only real reason it's that big is the fact that Largo was out of his freaking mind. Even the Imperial class is really bigger than it needs to be. In the long run, for flexible fleet operations, the 900-to-1800-foot size range fielded by the Federation Starfleet, Earthforce, the bulk of the WDF Navy, and... well, just about everybody else... seems to be about optimum. Anything bigger isn't necessarily overkill, but it is somewhat limited in operational scope. One wouldn't, for instance, send an Executioner-class Star Destroyer on a Starfleet-standard five-year exploration-and-patrol mission, unless of course you had money to burn and were just trying to make a point. :)

The most powerful warship in the service of a modern civilization is debatable, but the most likely candidates are Wandering Child and Challenger. Discounting the somewhat unbalancing factor of overtechnology, you're back to the Star Destroyer again, or possibly the Gamilon flagship Destiny's Fist.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
TRB
Charter Member
Oct-18-01, 04:04 AM (EST)
Click to EMail TRB Click to send private message to TRB Click to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: MegaRoad Class"
In response to message #3
 
   Awww. Megaroad? Urotsukidoji Class was just so much more wickedly twisted a class designation. ^__^

TRB

"There are jokes to be made here, but -I'm- not going near them."


  Printer-friendly page | Top
phongn
Member since Aug-21-13
2 posts
Oct-20-01, 00:27 AM (EST)
Click to EMail phongn Click to send private message to phongn Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list Click to send message via AOL IM  
5. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #3
 
   Gah...you just had to use the WEG size of the Super Star Destroyer, didn't you?


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19261 posts
Oct-20-01, 00:29 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Gryphon Click to send private message to Gryphon Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
6. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #5
 
   >Gah...you just had to use the WEG size of the Super Star Destroyer,
>didn't you?

"preferred canon" arguments exit to the left, bucko.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
phongn
Member since Aug-21-13
2 posts
Oct-20-01, 02:48 PM (EST)
Click to EMail phongn Click to send private message to phongn Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list Click to send message via AOL IM  
7. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #6
 
   :)

It's your universe, and it's hardly my place to tell you what you want the SSD to be in length. Just that the 8km length is somewhat irritating to me - why couldn't WEG do a bit of research?


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Redneck
Charter Member
Oct-20-01, 04:05 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Redneck Click to send private message to Redneck Click to add this user to your buddy list  
8. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #7
 
   >:)
>
>It's your universe, and it's hardly my place to tell you what you want
>the SSD to be in length. Just that the 8km length is somewhat
>irritating to me - why couldn't WEG do a bit of research?

What source do you have says differently?

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Sneaky Pete
Charter Member
Oct-20-01, 04:53 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Sneaky%20Pete Click to send private message to Sneaky%20Pete Click to add this user to your buddy list  
9. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #8
 
   >>:)
>>
>>It's your universe, and it's hardly my place to tell you what you want
>>the SSD to be in length. Just that the 8km length is somewhat
>>irritating to me - why couldn't WEG do a bit of research?
>
>What source do you have says differently?
>
>Redneck

http://theforce.net/swtc/

Curtis Saxon's Star Wars Technical Commmentaries: more specifically, http://theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html#executor Puts the ship at 17.6 kilometers based on evidence from the movies. (I won't try to reproduce the evidence here; I'd just end up cuting-and-pasting his pages.)

Duane


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19261 posts
Oct-20-01, 05:03 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Gryphon Click to send private message to Gryphon Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
10. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #9
 
   >Curtis Saxon's Star Wars Technical Commmentaries: more specifically,
>http://theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html#executor Puts the ship at 17.6
>kilometers based on evidence from the movies.

Oh, well, that simplifies this argument, if I were willing to have it in the first place, considerably. 17 kilometers is too fucking big. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
33 posts
Oct-20-01, 06:53 PM (EST)
Click to EMail ejheckathorn Click to send private message to ejheckathorn Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
11. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #10
 
   >Oh, well, that simplifies this argument, if I were willing to have it
>in the first place, considerably. 17 kilometers is too fucking big.
>:)

Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on having Dahak from David Weber's Mutineer's Moon novels, then.

If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is definitely too big.

;)

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net

Eric J. Heckathorn


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Chris Redfield
Charter Member
255 posts
Oct-20-01, 10:25 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Chris%20Redfield Click to send private message to Chris%20Redfield Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list Click to send message via ICQ  
12. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #11
 
   >Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on having Dahak from David Weber's
>Mutineer's Moon novels, then.
>
>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>definitely too big.

Why would anyone need a ship the size of a large country?

--------------------------------------
God Bless America
Chicken Biscuit $.99
--McDonald's sign in Raleigh, NC

-------------------------------------
Chris can't handle chemicals


  Printer-friendly page | Top
ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
33 posts
Oct-20-01, 10:45 PM (EST)
Click to EMail ejheckathorn Click to send private message to ejheckathorn Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
15. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet - Spoilers for "Mutineer's Moon""
In response to message #12
 
   >Why would anyone need a ship the size of a large country?

First, it's actually the size of the moon. In fact - no joke - it's actually disguised as our moon at the beginning of the first book.

Second, because they have Really Nasty Enemies(tm).

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net

Eric J. Heckathorn


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Nathan
Charter Member
1324 posts
Oct-21-01, 08:16 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Nathan Click to send private message to Nathan Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
17. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet - Spoilers for "Mutineer's Moon""
In response to message #15
 
   >>Why would anyone need a ship the size of a large country?
>
>First, it's actually the size of the moon. In fact - no joke - it's
>actually disguised as our moon at the beginning of the first book.

Well, like Dahak (kinda) says, how else to you hide something that big?

>Second, because they have Really Nasty Enemies(tm).

Genocidal fanatics with a fleet of (IIRC) ~30,000,000 twenty kilometer long warships would count as RNEs, yeah.

That universe is fun just 'cause its so utterly Over The Top.

Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Pangaro
Charter Member
Oct-21-01, 07:32 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Pangaro Click to send private message to Pangaro Click to add this user to your buddy list  
16. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #12
 
   >>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>>definitely too big.
>
>Why would anyone need a ship the size of a large country?

Why would anyone need a battle station the size of a Calss-M planet??

Pangaro,RFBG...
Member of the Narn Bat Squad


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Griever
Charter Member
Oct-22-01, 04:51 AM (EST)
Click to EMail Griever Click to send private message to Griever Click to add this user to your buddy list  
18. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #16
 
   >>>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>>>definitely too big.
>>
>>Why would anyone need a ship the size of a large country?
>
>Why would anyone need a battle station the size of a Calss-M planet??
>

Because there's a little rule in anime (and some movies ,
and henceforth some fanfics) that states
-THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL-
And apart from that , it could be something you'd
ask a certain Freud .

-Griever
well , that was another sensless message
brought to you by the Griever broadcast system
<white noise>



  Printer-friendly page | Top
Matrix Dragon
Charter Member
1728 posts
Oct-22-01, 06:41 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Matrix%20Dragon Click to send private message to Matrix%20Dragon Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
20. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #18
 
   >-THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL-

If you don't believe him, check DC Comics over the past few months. How many times have they destroyed, or nearly destroyed the multiverse?

Matrix Dragon

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


  Printer-friendly page | Top
remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Oct-22-01, 08:58 AM (EST)
Click to EMail remande Click to send private message to remande Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
19. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #16
 
   >Why would anyone need a battle station the size of a Calss-M planet??
>
>Pangaro,RFBG...

Why, to destroy a class-M planet, of course...

--rR

--rR


  Printer-friendly page | Top
drakensisthered
Charter Member
Oct-23-01, 02:39 PM (EST)
Click to EMail drakensisthered Click to send private message to drakensisthered Click to add this user to your buddy list  
21. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #12
 
   >>Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on having Dahak from David Weber's
>>Mutineer's Moon novels, then.
>>
>>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>>definitely too big.
>
>Why would anyone need a ship the size of a large country?

Their state of the art FTL drive WAS the size of a large country. And their power source of choice (the core tap) required a similarly sized installation - when they put one on Earth and kept sweating 'cause if the jury-rigged controls went it'd go 2nd impact on them. Plus their defensive perimeter was so big that one ship had to cover a big area on it's own - so it had to be capable of handling almost anything.


drakensisthered

So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of Chaos'


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Mister Fnord
Charter Member
291 posts
Oct-20-01, 10:29 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Mister%20Fnord Click to send private message to Mister%20Fnord Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
13. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #11
 
   >
>Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on having Dahak from David Weber's
>Mutineer's Moon novels, then.
>
>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>definitely too big.

Hell man, what do ya think the AT&T is? Aside from the worst bloody pun in the entire EPU canon. ;)


Mr. Fnord, checking the Moon for rivets.
--
The Jihad to Destroy Barney the Dinosaur
http://www.jihad.net/

--
Mr. Fnord


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Laudre
Charter Member
Oct-20-01, 10:34 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Laudre Click to send private message to Laudre Click to add this user to your buddy list  
14. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #13
 
   >>Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on having Dahak from David Weber's
>>Mutineer's Moon novels, then.
>>
>>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>>definitely too big.
>
>Hell man, what do ya think the AT&T is? Aside from the worst bloody
>pun in the entire EPU canon. ;)

Hmmm... wouldn't it qualify as a nested pun, or at least a double reference?

After all, it's the AT&T because the AT&T symbol looks like the Death Star; in fact, the Jargon File notes that the AT&T symbol is thusly referred to as the Death Star.

(Though I'm sure this also applies to AT&T's pre-breakup business practices.)

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Croaker
Charter Member
541 posts
Oct-25-01, 04:16 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Croaker Click to send private message to Croaker Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
22. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #13
 
   >>
>>Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on having Dahak from David Weber's
>>Mutineer's Moon novels, then.
>>
>>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>>definitely too big.
>
>Hell man, what do ya think the AT&T is? Aside from the worst bloody
>pun in the entire EPU canon. ;)
>

In the Fifth Imperium's naval lexicon, "underarmed, slow,
primitive, poorly defended, incompetantly commanded,
unmaneuverable, undergunned..."


>
>Mr. Fnord, checking the Moon for rivets.
>--
>The Jihad to Destroy Barney the Dinosaur
>http://www.jihad.net/


--
"Eat hot blazing photonic pulse fire, you alien invading human-abducting saucer-alien bastards!" -- Captain of EAS Bellerophon, firing on a Vree cruiser.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Nathan
Charter Member
1324 posts
Oct-25-01, 04:42 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Nathan Click to send private message to Nathan Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
23. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #22
 
   >>Hell man, what do ya think the AT&T is? Aside from the worst bloody
>>pun in the entire EPU canon. ;)
>>
>
>In the Fifth Imperium's naval lexicon, "underarmed, slow,
>primitive, poorly defended, incompetantly commanded,
>unmaneuverable, undergunned..."

"In other words- meat."

OTOH, nothing in that universe can compete with its particular version of FTL.

Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


  Printer-friendly page | Top
drakensisthered
Charter Member
Oct-25-01, 04:48 PM (EST)
Click to EMail drakensisthered Click to send private message to drakensisthered Click to add this user to your buddy list  
24. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #22
 
   >>>
>>>Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on having Dahak from David Weber's
>>>Mutineer's Moon novels, then.
>>>
>>>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>>>definitely too big.
>>
>>Hell man, what do ya think the AT&T is? Aside from the worst bloody
>>pun in the entire EPU canon. ;)
>>
>
>In the Fifth Imperium's naval lexicon, "underarmed, slow,
>primitive, poorly defended, incompetantly commanded,
>unmaneuverable, undergunned..."

Be fair - I don't think they had an one shot planet-busting weapon until the third book and that was a missile. (Until then it was a matter of tractoring a really big rock for a major kinetic strike - which takes months) The super laser would have impressed them.


drakensisthered

So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of Chaos'


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Croaker
Charter Member
541 posts
Oct-29-01, 03:01 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Croaker Click to send private message to Croaker Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
25. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #24
 
   >>>>
>>>>Well, I guess that puts the kibosh on having Dahak from David Weber's
>>>>Mutineer's Moon novels, then.
>>>>
>>>>If 17 kilometers is too big, three thousand kilometers is
>>>>definitely too big.
>>>
>>>Hell man, what do ya think the AT&T is? Aside from the worst bloody
>>>pun in the entire EPU canon. ;)
>>>
>>
>>In the Fifth Imperium's naval lexicon, "underarmed, slow,
>>primitive, poorly defended, incompetantly commanded,
>>unmaneuverable, undergunned..."
>
>Be fair - I don't think they had an one shot planet-busting weapon
>until the third book and that was a missile. (Until then it was a
>matter of tractoring a really big rock for a major kinetic strike -
>which takes months) The super laser would have impressed them.
>

Hmm, not really. They did have planetbuster capability - even Dahak
could do it with an appropriately-targeted set of hyper missiles.

The superlaser as a concept, they'd find interesting, having the
entire DeathStar/AT&T built around that weapon and no other real
anti-capital-unit weaponry (that we've ever seen in use, anyway)
would leave them rather less than impressed.

>
>drakensisthered
>
>So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally
>more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of
>Chaos'


--
"Eat hot blazing photonic pulse fire, you alien invading human-abducting saucer-alien bastards!" -- Captain of EAS Bellerophon, firing on a Vree cruiser.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Nathan
Charter Member
1324 posts
Oct-29-01, 03:50 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Nathan Click to send private message to Nathan Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
26. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #25
 
   >>Be fair - I don't think they had an one shot planet-busting weapon
>>until the third book and that was a missile. (Until then it was a
>>matter of tractoring a really big rock for a major kinetic strike -
>>which takes months) The super laser would have impressed them.
>>
>
>Hmm, not really. They did have planetbuster capability - even Dahak
>could do it with an appropriately-targeted set of hyper missiles.

He states it outright in that first conversation with Colin- "Essentially, Commander, this vessel could vaporize your planet."

BTW, given that it's Dahak talking, we can probably take this statement literally... And the superlaser left a _lot_ of debris behind.

>The superlaser as a concept, they'd find interesting, having the
>entire DeathStar/AT&T built around that weapon and no other real
>anti-capital-unit weaponry (that we've ever seen in use, anyway)
>would leave them rather less than impressed.

Nn-nn. I might be misremembering dialogue, but I think that it was actually said in dialogue that the reason the Rebel snubfighters were able to get so close was that _all_ of the DS's defenses were set up to bust capships. Of course, those selfsame defenses would be utterly pathetic in the face of beam weapons that can yank matter out of the sidereal universe or rip atoms to bits, but you can't have everything. ^_^

Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter
(Would really like to see those books made into anime, someday. That'd rock.)

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


  Printer-friendly page | Top
phongn
Member since Aug-21-13
2 posts
Oct-30-01, 10:06 PM (EST)
Click to EMail phongn Click to send private message to phongn Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list Click to send message via AOL IM  
31. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #26
 
   >>>Be fair - I don't think they had an one shot planet-busting weapon
>>>until the third book and that was a missile. (Until then it was a
>>>matter of tractoring a really big rock for a major kinetic strike -
>>>which takes months) The super laser would have impressed them.
>>>
>>
>>Hmm, not really. They did have planetbuster capability - even Dahak
>>could do it with an appropriately-targeted set of hyper missiles.
>
>He states it outright in that first conversation with Colin-
>"Essentially, Commander, this vessel could vaporize your planet."
>
>BTW, given that it's Dahak talking, we can probably take this
>statement literally... And the superlaser left a _lot_ of debris
>behind.
>
Wandering in again...

Actually, it's been determined that vaporization takes less energy that the superlaser's effect (force the entire mass of the planet to escape velocity). If anyone wants I'll look for the two energy numbers (only have the latter at the moment).


  Printer-friendly page | Top
drakensisthered
Charter Member
Oct-29-01, 06:28 PM (EST)
Click to EMail drakensisthered Click to send private message to drakensisthered Click to add this user to your buddy list  
27. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #25
 
   >>Be fair - I don't think they had an one shot planet-busting weapon
>>until the third book and that was a missile. (Until then it was a
>>matter of tractoring a really big rock for a major kinetic strike -
>>which takes months) The super laser would have impressed them.
>>
>
>Hmm, not really. They did have planetbuster capability - even Dahak
>could do it with an appropriately-targeted set of hyper missiles.
>
Not with one shot though. It would probably take a number of sequenced volleys of missiles to achieve a similar result. It's a bit pointless though - only a fraction of the firepower could easily depopulate a planet - destroying the whole thing is overkill.


drakensisthered

So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of Chaos'


  Printer-friendly page | Top
remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Oct-29-01, 09:33 PM (EST)
Click to EMail remande Click to send private message to remande Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
28. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #27
 
   >Not with one shot though. It would probably take a number of sequenced
>volleys of missiles to achieve a similar result. It's a bit pointless
>though - only a fraction of the firepower could easily depopulate a
>planet - destroying the whole thing is overkill.
>
>
>drakensisthered

Overkill is good, because intimidation is nine tenths of military force. Eradicating all life on a planet is one thing. Reducing it to an asteroid belt is another. Reducing it to vapors is a third. The more damage you can do, the more likely your potential enemies will say "Don't mess with him, and the less work you actually have to do.

Corrolary: The first duty of any military force is to Play the Shades. The second job is to beat somebody up if Playing the Shades doesn't work.

--rR

--rR


  Printer-friendly page | Top
drakensisthered
Charter Member
Oct-30-01, 06:58 PM (EST)
Click to EMail drakensisthered Click to send private message to drakensisthered Click to add this user to your buddy list  
29. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #28
 
   >Overkill is good, because intimidation is nine tenths of military
>force. Eradicating all life on a planet is one thing. Reducing it to
>an asteroid belt is another. Reducing it to vapors is a third. The
>more damage you can do, the more likely your potential enemies will
>say "Don't mess with him, and the less work you actually have
>to do.
>
>Corrolary: The first duty of any military force is to Play the Shades.
> The second job is to beat somebody up if Playing the Shades doesn't
>work.

That's a good military philosophy. I prefer aomething neater myself because it tends to demolish less of what I'm trying to get my hands on in the first place. But to quote Anastasius Focht, 'if you don't use all your ammo you can always give it back later'

drakensisthered

So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of Chaos'


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Redneck
Charter Member
Oct-30-01, 08:48 PM (EST)
Click to EMail Redneck Click to send private message to Redneck Click to add this user to your buddy list  
30. "RE: The Star Kingdom of Manticore's fleet"
In response to message #28
 
  
>Corrolary: The first duty of any military force is to Play the Shades.
> The second job is to beat somebody up if Playing the Shades doesn't
>work.

Hm, disagreed. My view of history is that the value of deterrence is highly overrated. WWI and the Pacific War of WWII were due in significant part to military threat- that is, various powers went to war to neutralize a military power. Furthermore, deterrence only works when rational thought is present on both sides... something which, in Earth history, is extremely rare.

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


  Printer-friendly page | Top

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

[ YUM ] [ BIG ] [ ??!? ] [ RANT ] [ GNDN ] [ STORE ] [ FORUM ] GOTW ] [ VAULT ]

version 3.3 © 2001
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
Benjamin D. Hutchins
E P U (Colour)