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Subject: "What if..." Archived thread - Read only
 
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Berrik_NeueZiel
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Oct-22-01, 10:35 AM (EST)
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"What if..."
 
   Someone built the Star Cruiser Yamato, and modern defenses proved useless against it's antiquated weaponry? (Yeah right, I wish...)


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: What if... Mephronmoderator Oct-22-01 1
  RE: What if... Gryphonadmin Oct-22-01 2
  RE: What if... Berrik_NeueZiel Oct-23-01 3
     RE: What if... Offsides Oct-23-01 4
         RE: What if... remandeteam Oct-23-01 5
             RE: What if... Gryphonadmin Oct-23-01 6
             RE: What if... Star Ranger4 Oct-23-01 7
                 RE: What if... remandeteam Oct-23-01 8
                     RE: What if... Peter Eng Oct-24-01 9
                         RE: What if... Gryphonadmin Oct-24-01 10
                             RE: What if... Star Ranger4 Oct-24-01 11
                                 RE: What if... Gryphonadmin Oct-24-01 12
                                     RE: What if... Verbena Oct-24-01 13
                                         RE: What if... zojojojo Oct-24-01 14
                                         RE: What if... Gryphonadmin Oct-24-01 15
                                             RE: What if... Mephronmoderator Oct-24-01 16
                                             RE: What if... Sinapus Oct-24-01 17
                                             RE: What if... Mister Fnord Oct-24-01 18
                                             RE: What if... Berrik_NeueZiel Oct-24-01 19
                                             RE: What if... kevncody Oct-24-01 20
                                             RE: What if... Gryphonadmin Oct-25-01 23
                                             RE: What if... Offsides Oct-24-01 21
                                             RE: What if... Wedge Oct-24-01 22

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Mephronmoderator
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Oct-22-01, 10:38 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #0
 
   >Someone built the Star Cruiser Yamato, and modern defenses proved
>useless against it's antiquated weaponry? (Yeah right, I wish...)

Yamatos already exist in the UF universe - see UF4 for details.

And if shields can stop missiles, I think that even shells will be stopped.

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals
(They won't give me LARTs, they say that's restricted to Michael.)

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-22-01, 11:48 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #0
 
   >Someone built the Star Cruiser Yamato,

The Yamato class is an integral part of the Wedge Defense Force Tactical Fleet. Several ships of that class, including the Yamato herself, the Argo, and the Bismarck, participated with great distinction in the Second Battle of Zeta Cygni.

>and modern defenses proved
>useless against it's antiquated weaponry? (Yeah right, I wish...)

I'll have to get you to explain to me how helix cannons, point defense phasers and the Wave Motion Gun are "antiquated".

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Berrik_NeueZiel
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Oct-23-01, 08:12 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #0
 
   I meant the one from the anime-- one Omega-class weapon and a whole lot of shell firing cannon. But whatever...


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Offsides
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Oct-23-01, 08:19 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #3
 
   >I meant the one from the anime-- one Omega-class weapon and a whole
>lot of shell firing cannon. But whatever...

Um... IIRC, the UF-universe Yamato is almost identical to the one from the show - the Battleship guns on SB Yamato didn't fire shells; they were energy weapons too...

Offsides

#include <starblazers.h>

#91;...#93; in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #pi;
#include <stdsig.h>


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Oct-23-01, 09:16 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #4
 
   >>I meant the one from the anime-- one Omega-class weapon and a whole
>>lot of shell firing cannon. But whatever...
>
>Um... IIRC, the UF-universe Yamato is almost identical to the one
>from the show - the Battleship guns on SB Yamato didn't fire shells;
>they were energy weapons too...
>
>Offsides
>
>#include <starblazers.h>

In Star Blazers, they called the three top mounted rotating turrets the "main guns" (in one episode, Captain Avatar said not to use the Wave Motion gun and to go to the main guns). IIRC, UF calls them "Helix cannons". The turrets had three barrels apiece, and the beams from the outboard barrels spiraled around like DNA, while the inboard barrel kept a straight course inside the spirals.

The Yamato class is still a powerful military vessel, one of the best in the business. Keep in mind that things like the Executioner and Wayward Son are not front-line ships, they are obscenely powerful ships, an order of magnitude more powerful than the next best thing.

Modulo these obscenely powerful vessels (of which we've seen three or four, and that may be all there is), the Yamato is a particularly nasty enemy. It mounts a Wave Motion Gun, which is an Omega-class weapon. Even without that WMG, its conventional arms are more than capable of destroying cap ships of similar tonnage to its own; without the WMG, it would still be classified as a decent battleship. Finally, it is a starcraft carrier. Between its guns and its hanger bays, it is two top-of-the-line warships in one.

I'll defer to Ben as to the FTL technology on the UF Yamato; if we built them to original canon spec, they'd have fold drives. If not, I'd suspect that they had hyperdrives, simply because warp nacelles would look silly on them. One technology we would have added to the class beyond the original canon spec would be a shield generator, simply because we think it's stupid to build a ship without one.

--rR

--rR


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-23-01, 09:50 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #5
 
   >I'll defer to Ben as to the FTL technology on the UF Yamato;
>if we built them to original canon spec, they'd have fold drives. If
>not, I'd suspect that they had hyperdrives, simply because warp
>nacelles would look silly on them.

Ships don't have to have nacelles to have warp drive (see most Cardassian designs, and the warp retrofits to the Colonial Battlestars and Star Destroyers in WDF service), but it's a pain to build 'em fully integrated. The Yamato class does have fold drive, and also hyperdrive backup. Almost everything has hyperdrive backup. It's too cheap and easy not to bother with.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
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Oct-23-01, 09:59 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #5
 
   >In Star Blazers, they called the three top mounted rotating
>turrets the "main guns" (in one episode, Captain Avatar said not to
>use the Wave Motion gun and to go to the main guns). IIRC, UF calls
>them "Helix cannons". The turrets had three barrels apiece, and the
>beams from the outboard barrels spiraled around like DNA, while the
>inboard barrel kept a straight course inside the spirals.

In the ususal sort of translation snafus, they were called Main guns in some episodes, Helix cannon in others, and Turret guns in yet some others.
>
>The Yamato class is still a powerful military vessel, one of
>the best in the business. Keep in mind that things like the
>Executioner and Wayward Son are not front-line
>ships, they are obscenely powerful ships, an order of
>magnitude more powerful than the next best thing.
>
And are probobly the center of WDF action groups as well, with some light cruisers and destroyers as screen. They are probobly used in situations where there is a high chance of action but the overwhelming firepower of the SDF-23 or Executioner are not needed, such as along disuputed borders with the Kizinti; etc... I expect that ships like Wandering Child and Executor now primarily perform exploration duties, since they are capable of handling most anything without having to call for help, rather than border patrol.

>Modulo these obscenely powerful vessels (of which we've seen three or
>four, and that may be all there is), the Yamato is a
>particularly nasty enemy. It mounts a Wave Motion Gun, which is an
>Omega-class weapon. Even without that WMG, its conventional arms are
>more than capable of destroying cap ships of similar tonnage to its
>own; without the WMG, it would still be classified as a decent
>battleship. Finally, it is a starcraft carrier. Between its guns and
>its hanger bays, it is two top-of-the-line warships in one.
>
Amen, ReRob. Lets recall that this ship, in the source material, basicly took on a whole navy and won. Granted, the whole fleet didnt attack at once, but... And this versitility and power makes them a perfect ship for border patrol, epsecially as the flag of a task group.

>I'll defer to Ben as to the FTL technology on the UF Yamato;
>if we built them to original canon spec, they'd have fold drives. If
>not, I'd suspect that they had hyperdrives, simply because warp
>nacelles would look silly on them. One technology we would have added
>to the class beyond the original canon spec would be a shield
>generator, simply because we think it's stupid to build a ship without
>one.

True enough; but that was only because Shielding wasn't available in the 'source material' universe. I have a feeling that if they'd had some available, they would have added it to the class. And there was at least one case where they basicly MADE shields for themselves.

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Oct-23-01, 10:05 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #7
 
   >>I'll defer to Ben as to the FTL technology on the UF Yamato;
>>if we built them to original canon spec, they'd have fold drives. If
>>not, I'd suspect that they had hyperdrives, simply because warp
>>nacelles would look silly on them. One technology we would have added
>>to the class beyond the original canon spec would be a shield
>>generator, simply because we think it's stupid to build a ship without
>>one.
>
>True enough; but that was only because Shielding wasn't available in
>the 'source material' universe. I have a feeling that if they'd had
>some available, they would have added it to the class. And there was
>at least one case where they basicly MADE shields for themselves.

Oh, I figure that any culture that can make a reasonable shield technology will deploy it on their top-line warships. I meant that we would have been stupid not to deploy it, not that the original canon builders were stupid not to deploy it. They didn't deploy it because it didn't exist for them.

We've been putting full shields on all WDF cap ships ever since Zoner got complaints of carpal tunnel syndrome from the pinpoint defense crew on the SDF-17 from overusing the trackballs.


--rR

--rR


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Peter Eng
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Oct-24-01, 01:14 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #8
 
   >
>We've been putting full shields on all WDF cap ships ever since Zoner
>got complaints of carpal tunnel syndrome from the pinpoint defense
>crew on the SDF-17 from overusing the trackballs.
>

And, presumably, since the development of a usable shielding system. That is, something which doesn't level everything for miles if it gets overloaded.

Peter Eng

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Gryphonadmin
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19238 posts
Oct-24-01, 01:34 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #9
 
   >And, presumably, since the development of a usable shielding system.
>That is, something which doesn't level everything for miles if it gets
>overloaded.

Be fair; in space, where the ship was designed to fight, that's not really a problem.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
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Oct-24-01, 02:11 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #10
 
   >>And, presumably, since the development of a usable shielding system.
>>That is, something which doesn't level everything for miles if it gets
>>overloaded.
>
>Be fair; in space, where the ship was designed to fight, that's
>not really a problem.
>
And yet another reason why ships like the SDF-23 and Executor would cruise alone... if they HAD that style of shield, it would be better not to have escorts, since overloading the shield is bad for everyone EXCEPT the SDF. ^_^

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-24-01, 02:51 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #11
 
   >And yet another reason why ships like the SDF-23 and Executor would
>cruise alone... if they HAD that style of shield, it would be better
>not to have escorts, since overloading the shield is bad for everyone
>EXCEPT the SDF. ^_^

A Star Destroyer wouldn't have that sort of barrier system; it's a Reflex artifact.

(It's Executioner, by the way. An executor is a person who oversees the implementation of a dead person's last will and testament. What the hell were you thinking, George?)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Verbena
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Oct-24-01, 09:06 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #12
 
   >>And yet another reason why ships like the SDF-23 and Executor would
>>cruise alone... if they HAD that style of shield, it would be better
>>not to have escorts, since overloading the shield is bad for everyone
>>EXCEPT the SDF. ^_^
>
>A Star Destroyer wouldn't have that sort of barrier system; it's a
>Reflex artifact.
>
>(It's Executioner, by the way. An executor is a person who
>oversees the implementation of a dead person's last will and
>testament. What the hell were you thinking, George?)

Hehe, I imagine he was thinking canon Star Wars universe--so far as I know, in the novels, the 2nd Ed Empire Sourcebook, and TIE Fighter, the name of Lord Vader's personal flagship was Executor (most likely as in, executor of the Emperor's will). I honestly figured you knew that and changed it over because you thought Executioner sounded cooler.


--"I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim, and give thy soul up to the inferno's embrace..."

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her


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zojojojo
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610 posts
Oct-24-01, 09:31 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #13
 
   >Hehe, I imagine he was thinking canon Star Wars universe--so far as I
>know, in the novels, the 2nd Ed Empire Sourcebook, and TIE Fighter,
>the name of Lord Vader's personal flagship was Executor (most likely
>as in, executor of the Emperor's will). I honestly figured you knew
>that and changed it over because you thought Executioner sounded
>cooler.

I thought he called it that because that was it's mission statement. Execute the Son. Unless I'm misrememberring, which is entirely possible.

-Z

---
We are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.

-Z


---
Remember kids: guns make you stupid, duct tape makes you smart.


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Gryphonadmin
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19238 posts
Oct-24-01, 02:24 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #13
 
   >>(It's Executioner, by the way. An executor is a person who
>>oversees the implementation of a dead person's last will and
>>testament. What the hell were you thinking, George?)
>
>Hehe, I imagine he was thinking canon Star Wars universe

So was I - why do you think I was asking somebody named George what the hell he was thinking? :)

I remain convinced that somebody involved with production design, maybe GL himself, maybe not, was thinking "Executioner" and simply failed to write it down correctly, and nobody caught it. I mean, Executor? What an unthreatening name. The Empire isn't into unthreatening names. It'd be like naming a Star Destroyer Actuary or Barrister.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Mephronmoderator
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Oct-24-01, 02:29 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #15
 
   >I remain convinced that somebody involved with production design,
>maybe GL himself, maybe not, was thinking "Executioner" and
>simply failed to write it down correctly, and nobody caught it. I
>mean, Executor? What an unthreatening name. The Empire isn't
>into unthreatening names. It'd be like naming a Star Destroyer
>Actuary or Barrister.

There are parts of the galaxy - and indeed, parts of our own world - where facing down an Super Star Destroyer with a butter knife is far less frightening that facing down a lawyer.....

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals
(They won't give me LARTs, they say that's restricted to Michael.)

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


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Sinapus
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Oct-24-01, 02:32 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #16
 
   >>I remain convinced that somebody involved with production design,
>>maybe GL himself, maybe not, was thinking "Executioner" and
>>simply failed to write it down correctly, and nobody caught it. I
>>mean, Executor? What an unthreatening name. The Empire isn't
>>into unthreatening names. It'd be like naming a Star Destroyer
>>Actuary or Barrister.
>
>There are parts of the galaxy - and indeed, parts of our own world -
>where facing down an Super Star Destroyer with a butter knife is far
>less frightening that facing down a lawyer.....

"Star Destroyer Auditor approaching."

"RUN AWAAAAAY!!!"

Patrick Chester
"...could you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"


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Mister Fnord
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Oct-24-01, 05:13 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #17
 
   >>There are parts of the galaxy - and indeed, parts of our own world -
>>where facing down an Super Star Destroyer with a butter knife is far
>>less frightening that facing down a lawyer.....
>
>"Star Destroyer Auditor approaching."
>
>"RUN AWAAAAAY!!!"

"This week on IRS, we visit Max Largo, famed multi-trillionaire CEO of Genom Corporation. He hasn't paid his taxes since 1991, and he owes more money than God. Stay tuned!"

Mr. Fnord, not Bill Hicks but a somewhat reasonable simulation thereof...
--
The Jihad to Destroy Barney the Dinosaur
http://www.jihad.net/

--
Mr. Fnord


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Berrik_NeueZiel
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Oct-24-01, 09:05 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #18
 
   While we're on the topic of Super Star Destroyers, are there any Eclipse Class SSDs out there? For that matter, what happened to the AT&T prototype (and for that matter, the AT&T itself? I don't -think- you wrote what happened to it after Gryphon and Largo fought each other.)


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kevncody
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Oct-24-01, 09:29 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #19
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-24-01 AT 09:42 PM (EDT)

>While we're on the topic of Super Star Destroyers, are there any
>Eclipse Class SSDs out there? For that matter, what happened to the
>AT&T prototype (and for that matter, the AT&T itself? I don't -think-
>you wrote what happened to it after Gryphon and Largo fought each
>other.)

Actually, he did. In Twilight 2. A brief quote thereof:

"Soon as I can word my request right," Mann replied, and
paused to think for a minute. "OK."
Gryphon slid the communicator across the table, and Mann
picked it up, opened it, and tuned it to the GENOM command band.
"This is Dr. Mann," he told the dispatcher who answered the hail.
"Give me a black channel to the Master. No, I am not joking, and
neither will you be when you're asking people for spare change on a
street corner next week if I don't have that connection within 15
seconds. Thank you." A pause. "Master, it's Dr. Mann. I have a
very irregular request to make and no time to explain why I'm making
it."
"Go on," Caine replied, his voice as placid as always.
"I need a Star Destroyer or two -- whatever can be spared --
detached from the MILARM structure temporarily and placed under my
direct authority for the duration of the crisis. I can't explain
right now, sir, but I give you my word it's of the utmost importance."
"To our... corporate interests?"
"To our continued existence as living beings, sir. I am
entirely serious."
"I can hear that." A pause. "Very well. I will order Grand
Admiral Thrawn to place himself and his flagship at your disposal
until you send word that this crisis is past. General Tangril and her
squadron will be aboard; they can leave immediately. Do you think
that will suffice?"
If R-Type's expression could have made a sound, that sound
would have been, "Bong!"
"Uh... y-yes! yes, I'm sure that will be fine, Master..."
"Please include the reasons for this activity in your
after-action report, Doctor. I am sure I will find it... most
interesting. Good luck, if you feel you need it. Caine out." The
channel went dead.
"I don't believe it," R-Type said in a voice which was calmer
than he felt as he handed back Gryphon's communicator. "He gave
me... the Big Ship. Unreal."
Redneck looked up sharply from his terminal. "The Big --
Thrawn? Hoooo, boy. Maybe Aya -won't- get frisky before we get
there."
R-Type arched an eyebrow. "What's -that- supposed to mean?"
"Captain Aya Nakajima is a grand master of 'unauthorized
engagements,'" Redneck drawled sardonically. "I think I phrased my
orders to her strongly enough to get her to behave... Under normal
circumstances, I wouldn't worry, but to a mind like hers Grand Admiral
Thrawn isn't just a name, it's a _challenge._"

Kevin Cody
Pre-Reader for Drunakrd's Walk 2 and Liquid Corage.


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19238 posts
Oct-25-01, 11:12 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #20
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-01 AT 11:12 AM (EDT)

>>While we're on the topic of Super Star Destroyers, are there any
>>Eclipse Class SSDs out there? For that matter, what happened to the
>>AT&T prototype (and for that matter, the AT&T itself? I don't -think-
>>you wrote what happened to it after Gryphon and Largo fought each
>>other.)
>
>Actually, he did. In Twilight 2. A brief quote thereof:
[snip]

I'm... not entirely sure what the quoted section had to do with either the AT&T or other classes of Star Destroyers, but to take the previous poster's questions in order:

1. No. The Executioner class is already bigger than you would ever actually need a warship to be. The Eclipse class would be so unwieldy as to be all but useless in the UF universe.

2. It's been placed in a special secure dock facility somewhere inside the Zeta Cygni Dyson sphere (where it was moved with its fold drive; the Sphere generally has an inbound-fold interdiction field, but it can be deactivated) and partially dismantled as its systems and construction are studied by the WDF Corps of Engineers in cooperation with GENOM technicians.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Offsides
Charter Member
1220 posts
Oct-24-01, 09:47 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #19
 
   >While we're on the topic of Super Star Destroyers, are there any
>Eclipse Class SSDs out there? For that matter, what happened to the
>AT&T prototype (and for that matter, the AT&T itself? I don't -think-
>you wrote what happened to it after Gryphon and Largo fought each
>other.)

IIRC, it's in orbit around Zeta Cygni, inside the Dyson Sphere - although how they got it in is a mystery to me...

Offsides

#include <doors.h>

#91;...#93; in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #pi;
#include <stdsig.h>


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Wedge
Charter Member
Oct-24-01, 09:59 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: What if..."
In response to message #21
 
   <snip AT&T question>
>IIRC, it's in orbit around Zeta Cygni, inside the Dyson Sphere -
>although how they got it in is a mystery to me...
>
>Offsides
>
>#include <doors.h>

Or they just folded it in there. Blip.

------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company


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