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TheOne
Member since 1-9-03
10 posts
05-09-03, 02:15 PM (EDT)
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"The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
 
   What exactly does this entail? And how does it prevent Don from saving Ray?

-The One

"If you're there, and I'm here, and Istanbul is somewhere in this general area, then who the hell is that?"


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? Mephron 05-09-03 1
  RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? Gryphonadmin 05-09-03 2
     RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? TheOne 05-09-03 3
         RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? Gryphonadmin 05-09-03 4
             RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? TheOne 05-10-03 6
                 RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? Gryphonadmin 05-10-03 7
                 RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? Redneckteam 05-10-03 8
                     RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? TheOne 05-11-03 9
                         RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? Gryphonadmin 05-11-03 10
                             RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? TheOne 05-11-03 11
  RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect? zojojojo 05-09-03 5

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Mephron
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05-09-03, 02:36 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #0
 
   >What exactly does this entail? And how does it prevent Don from saving
>Ray?

Basically, if I recall correctly, it's the law of time travel in Dr. Who that says that you can't change history in any really meaningful way if it would violate the cause and effect. So, for example, since Don already encountered the wraith of Ray, he can't go back in time and save her, because that would mean he'd only know he could due to the effect, so he wouldn't, so she'd visit him, so he'd go try, and succeed, and then never know he had to do it, and so he'd fail, and and and....

Or to put it another way, it's how they resolve the Grandfather Paradox.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"I find your lack of clue disturbing."


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Gryphonadmin
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05-09-03, 02:41 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #0
 
   >What exactly does this entail? And how does it prevent Don from saving
>Ray?

The Blinovich Limitation Effect is one of the principles governing time travel. It states that it is impossible to go back in time and make repeated attempts at repairing some "wrong" past occurrance. Doing so splinters the timeline and will eventually cause a loop, or worse. The damage to the Marvel Universe which Don is racing the clock to fix in Destroys is largely a result of repeated violations of the Blinovich Limitation by amateur or simply reckless time travelers.

Ray's case against Don trying to prevent her death is also partly predicated on the Second Law of Time ("No person may interfere with his own timeline"), but, not being a qualified Time Lord, she had an easier time remembering the one with the catchy name, and she knew Don would understand what she meant, anyway.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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TheOne
Member since 1-9-03
10 posts
05-09-03, 02:51 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST EDITED ON 05-09-03 AT 02:54 PM (EDT)
 
So if some ignorant third party, arriving not because of Rachel's warning or Don's appearance, arrived in a TARDIS, DeLorean, etc., incedentally preventing Rachel and/or Don's "deaths," would that change what happened?

-The One
I may not be Crocker, but I'm still confused


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Gryphonadmin
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05-09-03, 03:11 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #3
 
   >So if some ignorant third party, arriving not because of Rachel's
>warning or Don's appearance, arrived in a TARDIS, DeLorean, etc.,
>incedentally preventing Rachel and/or Don's "deaths," would that
>change what happened?

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter - either way, it would cause incidental damage to the space-time continuum.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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TheOne
Member since 1-9-03
10 posts
05-10-03, 03:37 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #4
 
   LAST EDITED ON 05-10-03 AT 03:38 PM (EDT)
 
>it would cause incidental damage to the space-time continuum.

What? How does that work? If noone realizes they've been saved, except the saviors, who didn't know they were changing time, just saving someone's life, how is cause-effect eliminated?

-The One

"Mayor West you have lymphoma...probably from rolling around it that toxic waste."
"I was trying to get super powers."


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Gryphonadmin
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05-10-03, 03:42 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #6
 
   >>it would cause incidental damage to the space-time continuum.
>
>What? How does that work? If noone realizes they've been saved, except
>the saviors, who didn't know they were changing time, just saving
>someone's life, how is cause-effect eliminated?

um... the laws of temporal physics aren't particularly affected by whether people know what happened.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Redneckteam
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05-10-03, 04:59 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #6
 
   >>it would cause incidental damage to the space-time continuum.
>
>What? How does that work? If noone realizes they've been saved, except
>the saviors, who didn't know they were changing time, just saving
>someone's life, how is cause-effect eliminated?

Knowledge isn't the question; any time-travel change to the past which nullifies the conditions necessary for the change in the future produces a paradox. The more paradoxes, the more damaged the timeline.

It's possible to go into the past and kill your own grandfather by -mistake,- but spacetime doesn't care if it was accidental or on purpose.

Redneck

Kris Overstreet, aka Redneck Gaijin
http://www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - huge tracts of land for sale


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TheOne
Member since 1-9-03
10 posts
05-11-03, 07:51 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #8
 
   LAST EDITED ON 05-11-03 AT 07:53 PM (EDT)
 
>Knowledge isn't the question; any time-travel change to the past which
>nullifies the conditions necessary for the change in the future
>produces a paradox. The more paradoxes, the more damaged the timeline.
>
>It's possible to go into the past and kill your own grandfather by
>-mistake,- but spacetime doesn't care if it was accidental or on
>purpose.
OK, but the Grandfather thing effects the traveller directly, eliminating the time travel, and therein damaging the continuum, that much I get. But what I've been trying (and failing, apparently) to get to is: if the actions did not affect the traveller (i.e.: you kill someone whose descendants never had any interaction with your ancestors/you), does that change what happended since the actions you took did not effect whether or not you go back in time?

The One

still not crocker, still confused


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Gryphonadmin
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05-11-03, 07:56 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #9
 
   >OK, but the Grandfather thing effects the traveller directly,
>eliminating the time travel, and therein damaging the continuum, that
>much I get. But what I've been trying (and failing, apparently) to get
>to is: if the actions did not affect the traveller (i.e.: you kill
>someone whose descendants never had any interaction with your
>ancestors/you), does that change what happended since the actions you
>took did not effect whether or not you go back in time?

OK, now, see, this is why I don't like having time travel in my universes. This doesn't have anything to do with the original question, which was why a particular action didn't take place in the story. The answer to that question, which has already been given, is that tinkering with a past event whose repercussions affect you now is bad for the universe.

As for this, well, how do you know that your victim's descendants will never have any effect on you? Hint: You don't. And if you think they don't but you're wrong, then guess what - you've just violated both the Second Law of Time and Blinovich's Limitation Effect.

Adjusting the past is inadvisable. Period.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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TheOne
Member since 1-9-03
10 posts
05-11-03, 08:11 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #10
 
   *Chorus of angels, you know that "ahhhhhhhh" you hear in bad commercials when they find the product advertised*

Thankyouthankyouthankyou. I feel much better now. Sorry for being vague/dumb with the way I worded the questions. Sleeeeep...

-The One

"Go CYBORG!"


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zojojojo
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05-09-03, 07:50 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: The Blinovich Limitation Effect?"
In response to message #0
 
   >What exactly does this entail? And how does it prevent Don from saving
>Ray?

And why is it named after a Russian semi-holiday centered around crepes? :)


-Z there really is such a thing... the whole extended family gets together and they all make crepes en masse and eat them... very tasty...

Rabid Crack Turtle 3.14159
---
Welcome to Hell. Here's your accordion.


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