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Subject: "More Liza Musings" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Wedge
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Nov-01-01, 02:39 AM (EST)
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"More Liza Musings"
 
   Peeling off from StarRanger's 'My Comments on Roses in Springtime....' thread:

>Right now, of course, the two main contenders are Kate and Dev. Of
>the two, Kate really is the lead for many reasons, not the least of
>which comes down to that she used the Shadow aspects of K-ryu
>training. Of course, we could all be being led down the primrose path
>on that one. Unless and until Lisa is revealed as a card carrying
>Teep, there is no reason why she should possibly be able to finger
>Devlin. Remember that she is off screen for "Courtship", and while at
>school Dev is so deep into his 'role' that whatever personality he may
>have originally possesed is totally subsumed. Ergo, to 'correctly'
>finger the blip she'd either have to be a Teep herself or have been in
>contact with Amanda's younger sister. To assume the former requires
>facts never before seen; the latter is even more improbable. Amanda's
>younger sister would have no way of knowing that Lisa is the one
>person best placed of the entire student body to attack the
>protagonists.

But, in rereading tonight, there is this to consider:


"The Gamilon's looking even more militant than usual tonight,"
mused Carol Alverson cattily as she and her tuxedoed ornament sipped
punch alongside Liza Broadbank and the desperately dull young man her
father had sent down from New Avalon.
Liza nodded, still distracted by the verbal beating she'd
taken from Dorothy Wayneright.
"I wonder what happened to her face," Carol went on
thoughtfully.
"Family politics, most likely," said Liza's date - what was
his name? - Sean somethingorother.
"And why in the world didn't she get it -fixed-? If she's
going to -this- school, you would think she could afford a decent
cybereye and some scar refusion."
"Gamilons take pride in disfigurement," said Sean
dismissively. "Barbaric society. They're worse than the Klingons.
She's supposed to be some kind of princess, right?"
"Well," said Carol in a tone of exaggerated patience, "that's
what Professor Kraalgh said."
"Her father is the Gamilon Emperor," said Liza shortly.
Carol glanced at her, puzzled. "I didn't think you interested
yourself in that kind of thing."
"You don't know everything about me," Liza replied. She
seemed preoccupied, more so than usual, as she watched the Gamilon
princess and her companion move around the dance floor. Her blue eyes
were narrowed, and there was a small tremor at the corner of her
mouth.
"You're awfully touchy tonight," said Carol, sounding wounded.
Liza seemed to realize she was being overly focused and curt,
and, with a visible effort, brought herself partway out of it. "I'm
not quite myself tonight," she said with forced cheer. "Headache."
"I've got just the thing for that," said Sean. He pulled back
the lapel of his tuxedo jacket and indicated a small silver knob
jutting up above the inside pocket. It took a few moments of looking
at it for Liza to realize that it was the cap of a flat drinking
flask.

Someone else mentioned the headache thing, but that's quite a bit of focused attention at Amanda and 'that guy she's with'...

...and we don't rightly know exactly who Xenia called or who tipped off the PsiCops. She was on the Destiny's Fist when she made it. Surely any communications into and out of a Gamilon warship would be monitored in some fashion, Emperor's daughter or not (especially considering he knows she was behind the assasination attempts on Amanda). Would calling the EA or the Corps outright have even been an option, or would she have had to work through a network, maybe one that went through Aztechnology...

------------------------
Chad Collier--Standard statements of total conjecture apply
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: More Liza Musings Laudre Nov-01-01 1
     RE: More Liza Musings Wedge Nov-01-01 3
         RE: More Liza Musings Laudre Nov-01-01 5
             RE: More Liza Musings Gryphonadmin Nov-01-01 6
                 RE: More Liza Musings Laudre Nov-01-01 7
                     RE: More Liza Musings Neophyte Nov-01-01 10
                         RE: More Liza Musings trussteam Nov-01-01 11
  RE: More Liza Musings NightmareButterfly Nov-01-01 2
     RE: More Liza Musings Wedge Nov-01-01 4
         RE: More Liza Musings trigger Nov-01-01 8
             RE: More Liza Musings Mephronmoderator Nov-01-01 9
             RE: More Liza Musings zojojojo Nov-01-01 12
                 RE: More Liza Musings BobSchroeck Nov-01-01 13
                     RE: More Liza Musings Redneck Nov-01-01 15
                         RE: More Liza Musings Laudre Nov-01-01 16
                             RE: More Liza Musings Nathan Nov-01-01 17
                                 RE: More Liza Musings Redneck Nov-01-01 18
                                     RE: More Liza Musings BobSchroeck Nov-01-01 19
                                     RE: More Liza Musings Laudre Nov-01-01 20
         RE: More Liza Musings Chris Redfield Nov-01-01 14

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Laudre
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Nov-01-01, 02:59 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #0
 
   >
 
> "You don't know everything about me," Liza replied. She
>seemed preoccupied, more so than usual, as she watched the Gamilon
>princess and her companion move around the dance floor. Her blue eyes
>were narrowed, and there was a small tremor at the corner of her
>mouth.
> "You're awfully touchy tonight," said Carol, sounding wounded.
> Liza seemed to realize she was being overly focused and curt,
>and, with a visible effort, brought herself partway out of it. "I'm
>not quite myself tonight," she said with forced cheer. "Headache."
> "I've got just the thing for that," said Sean. He pulled back
>the lapel of his tuxedo jacket and indicated a small silver knob
>jutting up above the inside pocket. It took a few moments of looking
>at it for Liza to realize that it was the cap of a flat drinking
>flask.
>

>
>Someone else mentioned the headache thing, but that's quite a bit of
>focused attention at Amanda and 'that guy she's with'...

The one thing that bothers me is that if Liza's a teep (and, being a citizen of Zeta Cygni, not a member of the Psi Corps, but they would certainly know of her) and she's scanning Devlin, wouldn't he notice it?

Unless Amanda and Devlin are engaged in some kind of telepathic conversation, and she's eavesdropping. Except... LeClerq is there, too, and I don't think Devlin would be that careless anyway. Especially since he knows that there's a strong possibility that the Psi Cops are looking for a blip.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Wedge
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Nov-01-01, 03:23 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #1
 
   >The one thing that bothers me is that if Liza's a teep (and, being a
>citizen of Zeta Cygni, not a member of the Psi Corps, but they would
>certainly know of her) and she's scanning Devlin, wouldn't he notice
>it?

If it came to that, she could just be scanning Amanda.

>Unless Amanda and Devlin are engaged in some kind of telepathic
>conversation, and she's eavesdropping. Except... LeClerq is there,
>too, and I don't think Devlin would be that careless anyway.
>Especially since he knows that there's a strong possibility that the
>Psi Cops are looking for a blip.

I'm not convinced Liza is a teep, though, which is why I was muddling about with the other connections. I also have no clue on how all the psi stuff works in this context (I've never seen an episode of B5, so all this Corps stuff is new to me :), so I don't know if there's a 'range' to any of the abilities LeClerq may have to read any of that stuff. Maybe LeClerq was on the other side of the room and too far away. Or maybe Liza was just assembling bits of info she got from other places...

------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company


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Laudre
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Nov-01-01, 03:54 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #3
 
   >I'm not convinced Liza is a teep, though, which is why I was muddling
>about with the other connections.

Neither am I. And I don't really know how B5 telepathy works. But there's nothing to directly discount it, and I doubt she'd really trust anyone else. I'm sure that the Psi Corps are looking for a blip because of Amanda's sister; I doubt she has a direct connection to Liza.

Another thing... of the various members of the IDS and the IBGF and their associates, only Devlin is a citizen of Earth, I think; let's review. Of the humans, Kaitlyn, Utena, Juri, Saionji, Wakaba, and Miki are all citizens of Zeta Cygni; likewise, Mac is an offworlder. Dorothy is an android. Azalynn, Amanda, G'Kron, and Sky are aliens. Moose is a Hoffmanite, which puts him into the same camp as the Ohtori Academy group, Kaitlyn, and Mac. Devlin, however, is an Earther, which means he's at the greatest risk. For the others, they can't be conscripted into the Psi Corps; there's certainly legal consequences for carrying a forged Psi Corps flatscan card, but that's not nearly as bad as being a blip and a citizen of Earthdome.

OTOH, the "Rose" motif in the titles seems to always refer to either Utena or Kate. And Kate coming to Liza's rescue would probably be the last straw; I can see her fingering Kate. After all, Kate clearly displayed some kind of paranormal ability when she took out the Aztechnology schmuck, and, as has been pointed out elsewhere, most UF people are going to attribute anything like that to psi.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Gryphonadmin
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Nov-01-01, 05:00 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #5
 
   >Another thing... of the various members of the IDS and the IBGF and
>their associates, only Devlin is a citizen of Earth, I think; let's
>review.

Not quite; having renounced her Minbari citizenship, Mia Ausa's legal status would thus be determined by that of her father, who is an Earth Alliance citizen (United States of Australia).

>Dorothy is an android.

Actually, Dorothy is a robot (if you want to get more technical, a biomimetic mechano-humanoid). Androids have some synthetic biological components or are completely synthetic biocreatures (the Olympus bioroids, for instance). Dorothy has no organic components whatsoever; she's a mechanical humanoid with a sophisticated superstructure that mimics biological textures. The distinction is largely academic, but carries with it a certain nuance of legal interpretation.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Laudre
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Nov-01-01, 05:14 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #6
 
   >Not quite; having renounced her Minbari citizenship, Mia Ausa's legal
>status would thus be determined by that of her father, who is an Earth
>Alliance citizen (United States of Australia).

Whoops. My bad. I missed Mia in my rundown (and probably would have stuck her with the aliens, anyway). Still, though, I'd presume that she's a legitimate flatscan, unlike Devlin; she's a sorceress, not a teep. Which doesn't change my original point: Devlin, as the only Earth-citizen teep (as far as we know) among the group, stands to lose the most. Still, since he has contacts with the Underground, I'm sure there's ways for him to get away.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Neophyte
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Nov-01-01, 01:11 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #7
 
   >Devlin, as the only
>Earth-citizen teep (as far as we know) among the group, stands to lose
>the most. Still, since he has contacts with the Underground, I'm sure
>there's ways for him to get away.

There may be another option. Let's say, hypothetically, that Devlin and Amanda were to get married (this assumes that none of the Gamilons (the important ones, anyway) had a problem with the princess (heir) marrying an earthman). In that situation, couldn't Devlin renounce his Earth citizenship and be a citizen of the Gamilon Empire?

-------
Y. Michael Chang
Mechanical Engineering major, Berkeley, CA


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trussteam
Member since Aug-9-13
Nov-01-01, 02:24 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #10
 
   >There may be another option. Let's say, hypothetically, that Devlin
>and Amanda were to get married (this assumes that none of the Gamilons
>(the important ones, anyway) had a problem with the princess (heir)
>marrying an earthman). In that situation, couldn't Devlin renounce
>his Earth citizenship and be a citizen of the Gamilon Empire?

Possibly, if it happens before the Corps catches up with him.

At that point, it would all depends on just how badly the Corps wanted him, I suppose. And on whether or not they'd be willing to risk some messy political consequences.

--truss.


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NightmareButterfly
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Nov-01-01, 03:03 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-01 AT 03:06 AM (EST)

 
> "You're awfully touchy tonight," said Carol, sounding wounded.
> Liza seemed to realize she was being overly focused and curt,
>and, with a visible effort, brought herself partway out of it. "I'm
>not quite myself tonight," she said with forced cheer. "Headache."


Personally, I think this is the most important part. When I reread it the first time I went "Ah ha..."

And while Devlin would now if he's being scanned, Amanda probably wouldn't... and Liza is just the kind of person to scan her enemies at random.

Edit: I'm looking at more, and now I'm convinced she's scanning Amanda. She's in a conversation about Gamilon, and she spouts of a fact that doesn't seem like the kind of thing she'd know... sounds like she picked up a surface thought.

Question is, is Liza registered?

Actually, the question probably is "Am I right?"

-Nightmare Butterfly
Lemme guess: "No."


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Wedge
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Nov-01-01, 03:25 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #2
 
   >And while Devlin would now if he's being scanned, Amanda probably
>wouldn't... and Liza is just the kind of person to scan her enemies at
>random.
>
>Edit: I'm looking at more, and now I'm convinced she's scanning
>Amanda. She's in a conversation about Gamilon, and she spouts of a
>fact that doesn't seem like the kind of thing she'd know... sounds
>like she picked up a surface thought.
>
>Question is, is Liza registered?
>
>Actually, the question probably is "Am I right?"
>
>-Nightmare Butterfly
>Lemme guess: "No."

Or have we just found the MacGuffin?

:)

------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company


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trigger
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Nov-01-01, 10:58 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #4
 
   What's a MacGuffin?

t.


Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

Trigger Argee
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

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Mephronmoderator
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Nov-01-01, 11:30 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #8
 
   >What's a MacGuffin?

About $20 at your nearest bookstore.

OK, seriously: From a literary glossary I found on the web:

MACGUFFIN: Device giving impetus to plot: in a movie , play, or book, something that starts or drives the action of the plot but later turns out to be unimportant. Coined by Alfred Hitchcock. (E)

In 'The Maltese Falcon', the Falcon itself is the Macguffin. The question is, is what Liza does technically counting under Macguffin? Or something else? I suspect we shall not know until 'Hunted Rose' arrives.

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals
(They won't give me LARTs, they say that's restricted to Michael.)

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


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zojojojo
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Nov-01-01, 03:01 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #8
 
   >What's a MacGuffin?

it's like a henway, but a little different.

-Z

---
We are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.

-Z


---
Remember kids: guns make you stupid, duct tape makes you smart.


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BobSchroeck
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2192 posts
Nov-01-01, 07:11 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #12
 
   >>What's a MacGuffin?
>it's like a henway, but a little different.

Is that henway with or without a Grecian urn?

-- Bob
---------------
500 plastic ducks.
1 world.
Infinite possibilities.
http://www.ifoundaduck.com

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Redneck
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Nov-01-01, 07:37 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #13
 
   >>>What's a MacGuffin?
>>it's like a henway, but a little different.
>
>Is that henway with or without a Grecian urn?

Depends on the yuirs.

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


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Laudre
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Nov-01-01, 08:11 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #15
 
   >>>>What's a MacGuffin?
>>>it's like a henway, but a little different.
>>
>>Is that henway with or without a Grecian urn?
>
>Depends on the yuirs.

*watches this subthread fly over his head*

-- Sean --
I probably should know this, but I don't...
http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Nathan
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1324 posts
Nov-01-01, 08:46 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #16
 
   >>>>>What's a MacGuffin?
>>>>it's like a henway, but a little different.
>>>
>>>Is that henway with or without a Grecian urn?
>>
>>Depends on the yuirs.
>
>*watches this subthread fly over his head*

Likewise, though I get a feeling that baseball-bat-weilding Narns should be showing up at some point soon.

Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


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Redneck
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Nov-01-01, 08:56 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #17
 
   >>>>>>What's a MacGuffin?
>>>>>it's like a henway, but a little different.
>>>>
>>>>Is that henway with or without a Grecian urn?
>>>
>>>Depends on the yuirs.
>>
>>*watches this subthread fly over his head*
>
>Likewise, though I get a feeling that baseball-bat-weilding Narns
>should be showing up at some point soon.

Tsk. Children.

The three terms are gags, to which the straight man is supposed to reply, "What's <fitb>?"

Answers:

What's a henway? Oh, about five pounds.
What's a Grecian urn? About ten bucks an hour.
What's yuirs? Scotch and soda, if you'd be so kind.

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


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BobSchroeck
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Nov-01-01, 09:45 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #18
 
   >What's a Grecian urn? About ten bucks an hour.

Ah. Different traditions. Around here, we answer in drachmas.

-- Bob, who actually managed to pull this on his wife in a Home Depot garden section last spring, to the amusement of nearby shoppers
---------------
500 plastic ducks.
1 world.
Infinite possibilities.
http://www.ifoundaduck.com

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Laudre
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Nov-01-01, 10:30 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #18
 
   >What's a henway? Oh, about five pounds.

This one occured to me after I posted.

>What's a Grecian urn? About ten bucks an hour.
>What's yuirs? Scotch and soda, if you'd be so kind.

These two I don't think I've heard before. Probably because I prefer British humor to, say, Henny Youngman.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Chris Redfield
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Nov-01-01, 07:14 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: More Liza Musings"
In response to message #4
 
   >>Question is, is Liza registered?
>>
>>Actually, the question probably is "Am I right?"

How are offworld telepaths handled by psi-corp? Are they required to follow the dress code? Do they wear the insignia? Wouldn't they be followed around by a bunch of psi-corp toadies to make sure they aren't assisting the underground?

If Liza is not registered, and IS a telepath, wouldn't that cause some problems when the psi-cop notices that she is? Is she so emotionally shaken by the events of the evening that she hasn't thought of that?

Am I asking too many questions?

-----------------------------------
Chris can't handle telepathy

-------------------------------------
Chris can't handle chemicals


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