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Subject: "The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick" Archived thread - Read only
 
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jonathanlennox
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Nov-01-01, 04:43 PM (EST)
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"The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
 
   I'm loving SOS! Just thought I'd get that out of the way before this astonishingly quibbly nitpick.

If Star Trek the show doesn't exist in the UF universe, what is the line "Every one's a Captain Kirk" in 99 Red Balloons referencing?

(Since the notes at the end of SOS5 say that 99 Red Balloons is a cover, not a meta-original.)

--
Jonathan Lennox
lennox@cs.columbia.edu


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick remandeteam Nov-01-01 1
     RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick trussteam Nov-01-01 2
  RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick Gryphonadmin Nov-01-01 3
     RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick jonathanlennox Nov-01-01 4
         RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick Gryphonadmin Nov-01-01 5
             RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick trigger Nov-01-01 6
                 RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick Gryphonadmin Nov-01-01 7
                     RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick Star Ranger4 Nov-01-01 8
                         RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick Gryphonadmin Nov-01-01 9
  RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick Redneck Nov-02-01 10
     RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick remandeteam Nov-02-01 11
  RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick Blob Nov-02-01 12
     RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick trussteam Nov-02-01 13
         RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick Gryphonadmin Nov-02-01 14

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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Nov-01-01, 04:49 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #0
 
   >I'm loving SOS! Just thought I'd get that out of the way before this
>astonishingly quibbly nitpick.
>
>If Star Trek the show doesn't exist in the UF universe, what is
>the line "Every one's a Captain Kirk" in 99 Red Balloons
>referencing?
>
>(Since the notes at the end of SOS5 say that 99 Red Balloons is
>a cover, not a meta-original.)
>
>--
>Jonathan Lennox
>lennox@cs.columbia.edu

Who says that the show doesn't exist in the UF universe? Truss was watching ST5 on UF3.

--rR

--rR


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trussteam
Member since Aug-9-13
Nov-01-01, 04:51 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #1
 
   >Who says that the show doesn't exist in the UF universe? Truss was
>watching ST5 on UF3.

Or trying to, anyway...

--truss.


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Gryphonadmin
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19238 posts
Nov-01-01, 05:03 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-01 AT 05:11 PM (EST)

>If Star Trek the show doesn't exist in the UF universe, what is
>the line "Every one's a Captain Kirk" in 99 Red Balloons
>referencing?

Um... Captain James Tiberius Kirk, Wedge Defense Force. (Though at the time the song was written, he was probably still in Starfleet.)

Duh. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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jonathanlennox
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232 posts
Nov-01-01, 05:11 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #3
 
   >>If Star Trek the show doesn't exist in the UF universe, what is
>>the line "Every one's a Captain Kirk" in 99 Red Balloons
>>referencing?
>
>Um... Captain James Tiberius Kirk, Wedge Defense Force.
>
>Duh.

So the performance is a cover, but of something written in the 23rd century, not by Nena in 1984?

My brain hurts...

--
Jonathan Lennox
lennox@cs.columbia.edu


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Gryphonadmin
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19238 posts
Nov-01-01, 05:13 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #4
 
   >So the performance is a cover, but of something written in the 23rd
>century, not by Nena in 1984?
>
>My brain hurts...

There are a number of curious artifacts of the transfictional recreation of the unierse floating around; this is one of them. It's best not to think about them too closely. Scientists have occasionally tried to reconcile them, in order to try and disprove the (to many scientists ludicrous) notion that the universe was transfictionally retromodified. Most of them go insane.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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trigger
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1500 posts
Nov-01-01, 06:36 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #5
 
  
>There are a number of curious artifacts of the transfictional
>recreation of the unierse floating around; this is one of them. It's
>best not to think about them too closely. Scientists have
>occasionally tried to reconcile them, in order to try and disprove the
>(to many scientists ludicrous) notion that the universe was
>transfictionally retromodified. Most of them go insane.

<snicker>

on that note...what is it about James Kirk leaving Star Fleet? Last we heard of him, he thumb-wrestled Aya into submission following the Battle of Zeta Cygni? Did they kick him out? And why?

t.
I wonder if Savik said to Spock, "See I told you this would happen..."

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

Trigger Argee
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games." - Corwin of Amber


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Gryphonadmin
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19238 posts
Nov-01-01, 06:50 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #6
 
   >on that note...what is it about James Kirk leaving Star Fleet? Last
>we heard of him, he thumb-wrestled Aya into submission following the
>Battle of Zeta Cygni? Did they kick him out? And why?

They didn't kick him out, exactly; they announced that they were scrapping all Constitution- and Miranda-class vessels, including Enterprise, as too outdated to be worth upgrading to the new ultrawarp spec developed by GZK after the development of the Iowa-class battleship. When that happened, forces within Starfleet Command who weren't very fond of Kirk took the opportunity to force him into the Admiralty. (In UF he didn't accept promotion after his first five-year mission, but stubbornly remained a captain throughout the 2370s and 80s.)

As it happened, the WDF, in the process of building its fleet for the inevitable confrontation with GENOM, thought that the old ships Starfleet was ridding itself of were well worth upgrading, so we traded them a few new-construction ships and a license to build Iowa-class vessels (which Starfleet promptly redesignated the Ambassador class for some reason) in return for the ships they were planning to scrap.

Then we phoned up Admiral Kirk and offered him a demotion and his old job back. He was in Gryphon's office as fast as he could tell Admiral Nogura to take this job and shove it. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
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Nov-01-01, 10:50 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #7
 
   >As it happened, the WDF, in the process of building its fleet for the
>inevitable confrontation with GENOM, thought that the old ships
>Starfleet was ridding itself of were well worth upgrading, so
>we traded them a few new-construction ships and a license to build
>Iowa-class vessels (which Starfleet promptly redesignated the
>Ambassador class for some reason) in return for the ships they
>were planning to scrap.
>
>Then we phoned up Admiral Kirk and offered him a demotion and his old
>job back. He was in Gryphon's office as fast as he could tell Admiral
>Nogura to take this job and shove it. :)
>

Thus saving him the indignity of having to serve in pale blue Pjammas. Actually, I have one follow up on that one. After twilight, does Kirk stay with the WDF, or does he move to the EoJ with most everyone else?

My crystal ball says he stayed a weggie, since he'd not want to be parted from Enterprise, and it sounds like the EoJ's are more into new construction for their more specialized needs.

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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19238 posts
Nov-01-01, 11:37 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #8
 
   > Actually, I have one follow up on that one. After twilight, does
>Kirk stay with the WDF, or does he move to the EoJ with most everyone
>else?

As of 2405 he's still in the WDF; the IPO's Space Force is only a little less than a year old at that point, not having been part of the organization's original structure, and only has two ships, one new, the other on loan from the Klingons.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Redneck
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Nov-02-01, 00:05 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #0
 
   >I'm loving SOS! Just thought I'd get that out of the way before this
>astonishingly quibbly nitpick.
>
>If Star Trek the show doesn't exist in the UF universe, what is
>the line "Every one's a Captain Kirk" in 99 Red Balloons
>referencing?

OK. A quick explanation, for those who haven't heard before:

The universe has been retroactively rebuilt many times. The core of this rebuilding, on at least two occasions, is the fall of 1991 on Earth, WPI specifically. As this rebuilding is dependent on the culture of this period, all fictional materials up to that point -do- exist and, by and large, -continue- to exist.

HOWEVER.

As history progresses both forward and backward from 1991, it changes in gradual but irresistible ways. Atlantis, for example, is told of by a survivor who crashes in Greece and befriends Plato. The 'War of the Worlds' broadcast is inspired by the crash-landing of a Zardon scout craft. Etc. etc. etc. In the future, those fictional sources from which characters, equipment, etc. are derived fall out of the general mass consciousness, and eventually any linkage between, say, the 3WA trouble consultants Kei and Yuri and an animation dated back to 1981 is regarded by the vast majority as tinfoil-hat territory.

Aside from a few hyperdimensional travellers or omnipotent beings, only a tiny handful of people are aware of any linkage at all; in general, these are people who are close either to the re-creation of the universe or to the creation of the specific items which are linked to the Earth culture mentioned. Even then, most of -these- have nothing more than a vague concept that something is wrong with their perception of reality, and NONE of them talks about it at ALL. It's not a comfortable topic under the best of circumstances.

In short, a 'Star Trek' TV show and the actual existence several hundred years later of the characters from that show are not contradictory, nor do they cause any paradox. It just so happens that the universe (read: the authors) doesn't -want- people to notice, so they don't.

And if you try to make the universe notice, your theories will be filed in the same place as the collected political thought of Lyndon LaRouche.

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Nov-02-01, 00:16 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #10
 
   >As history progresses both forward and backward from 1991, it changes
>in gradual but irresistible ways. Atlantis, for example, is told of by
>a survivor who crashes in Greece and befriends Plato. The 'War of the
>Worlds' broadcast is inspired by the crash-landing of a Zardon scout
>craft. Etc. etc. etc. In the future, those fictional sources from
>which characters, equipment, etc. are derived fall out of the general
>mass consciousness, and eventually any linkage between, say, the 3WA
>trouble consultants Kei and Yuri and an animation dated back to 1981
>is regarded by the vast majority as tinfoil-hat territory.

>Redneck

Android could give you a three-hour lecture of the Quantum Discordance of this, how the universe is indeed changing due to the interactions of fnordons and tachyfnordons.

But I'm suspecting he won't.

--rR

--rR


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Blob
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Nov-02-01, 03:29 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #0
 
   I've a questiona about the version of 99 Red Balloons in SoS5. Is it an official version? And if not why did you use "Neunundneunzig Kriegsminister..."?

If I had to take the english verion and put one german verse in it I'd take the last verse, it has way more impact than the english ending (IMHO).

99 Jahre Krieg.
Ich seh' keinen Platz für Sieger.
Kriegminister gibts nicht mehr.
Und auch keine Düsenflieger.
Heute dreh ich meine Runden.
Seh die Welt in trümmern liegen.
Hab 'nen Luftballon gefunden.
Denk an dich und laß ihn fliegen.

translation:
99 years of war.
I see no room for winners.
Warministers are no more.
And no more Jetfighters, too.
Today I draw my rounds.
See the world lying in rubble.
Have found a red balloon.
Think of you and let it fly.

----------------
"And what _are_ we dealing with? Little green men!?"
"No. Little green blobs in bonded polycarbite-armor!"


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trussteam
Member since Aug-9-13
Nov-02-01, 03:46 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #12
 
   >I've a questiona about the version of 99 Red Balloons in SoS5. Is it
>an official version? And if not why did you use "Neunundneunzig
>Kriegsminister..."?

It is, mostly.

More details at: http://www.eyrie-productions.com/Forum-docs/DCForumID1/113.html

--truss.


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Gryphonadmin
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19238 posts
Nov-02-01, 03:52 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: The world's quibbliest SOS5 nitpick"
In response to message #13
 
   >>I've a questiona about the version of 99 Red Balloons in SoS5. Is it
>>an official version? And if not why did you use "Neunundneunzig
>>Kriegsminister..."?
>
>It is, mostly.

Frankly, I'd have used that verse anyway. The last verse may have the most impact words-wise, but it's sung quietly, and I'd have wanted the song structured as it was - with the last, angriest-sounding loud verse in German, and the return to English for the quiet, plaintive sign-off.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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