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Subject: "song, 2007.04.17" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Gryphonadmin
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22374 posts
Apr-17-07, 09:46 AM (EDT)
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"song, 2007.04.17"
 
   The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy
With a load of iron ore 26,000 tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That big ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early

The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconsin
As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most
With a crew and good captain well-seasoned
Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ship's bell rang
Could it be the north wind they'd been feeling?

The wind in the wire made a tattletale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew as the captain did too
'Twas the witch of November come stealing
The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashing
When afternoon came it was freezing rain
In the face of a hurricane west wind

When suppertime came the old cook came on deck
Saying "Fellas, it's too rough to feed you"
At seven p.m. a main hatchway caved in
He said "Fellas, it's been good to know you"
The captain wired in he had water coming in
And the big ship and crew was in peril
And later that night, well, their lights went out of sight
In the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours?
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd put 15 more miles behind her
They might've split up or they might've capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters

Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the rooms of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
Farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go, as the mariners all know
Where the gales of November remember

In a musty old hall in Detroit they pray
In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed 'til it rang 29 times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
Superior, they said, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early

- Gordon Lightfoot
"The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"
Summer Dream (1976)


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: song, 2007.04.17 simonz Apr-17-07 1
     RE: song, 2007.04.17 jadmire Apr-17-07 3
         RE: song, 2007.04.17 simonz Apr-18-07 4
         RE: song, 2007.04.17 wxnut Apr-18-07 6
             RE: song, 2007.04.17 jadmire Apr-19-07 7
                 RE: song, 2007.04.17 wxnut Apr-19-07 8
                     RE: song, 2007.04.17 jadmire Apr-19-07 9
                     RE: song, 2007.04.17 asuffield Apr-20-07 10
                         RE: song, 2007.04.17 Gryphonadmin Apr-20-07 11
                             RE: song, 2007.04.17 Mephronmoderator Apr-20-07 12
                             RE: song, 2007.04.17 twipper Apr-20-07 13
                             RE: song, 2007.04.17 McFortner Apr-20-07 14
                                 RE: song, 2007.04.17 BobSchroeck Apr-20-07 15
                                     RE: song, 2007.04.17 Gryphonadmin Apr-21-07 16
                                         RE: song, 2007.04.17 Offsides Apr-21-07 17
                                         RE: song, 2007.04.17 VoidRandom May-28-07 18
  RE: song, 2007.04.17 SpottedKitty Apr-17-07 2
  RE: song, 2007.04.17 trboturtle Apr-18-07 5

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simonz
Member since Jun-23-04
86 posts
Apr-17-07, 04:39 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #0
 
   Not by any chance a reference to the Danzig is it?


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jadmire
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Apr-17-07, 06:31 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #1
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-07 AT 06:35 PM (EDT)
 
My guess actually is that it refers to an as-yet-unidentified IPSF ship that's gone down with all hands in a natural catastrophe. Enigma Sector is notoriously full of navigational hazards, after all...

-Joe-

P.S. I had an online acquaintance back a few years ago who was actually present on the scene, more or less, when the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. She was a journalist for a local paper on the Upper Peninsula.


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simonz
Member since Jun-23-04
86 posts
Apr-18-07, 11:08 AM (EDT)
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4. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #3
 
   >My guess actually is that it refers to an as-yet-unidentified IPSF
>ship that's gone down with all hands in a natural catastrophe. Enigma
>Sector is notoriously full of navigational hazards, after all...

I was looking at it (after checking out the wiki article on the Edmund Fitzgerald) as being a very similar situation, ie the ship having contact and suddenly going down, losing all hands, etc. I was hoping it might be a sign that we would be finding out soon just what happened to Kei when the Danzig was lost.


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wxnut
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101 posts
Apr-18-07, 09:08 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #3
 
   I thought the song has more to do with the big nor'easter that went through New England just recently.

Zack Seaholm - Anime fan, weathernut, worshipper of the goddess Belldandy.

Today's global thermonuclear war tactic: Albanian Decoy
Winner: None


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jadmire
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Apr-19-07, 05:02 AM (EDT)
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7. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #6
 
   Not just New England, the whole East Coast. I drove through it on my way back through North Carolina to Northern Virginia on Sunday. However, it could be a reference to a UF version of such a storm. I was just thinking yesterday that New Avalon has nor'easters too, in fact, it was explicitly mentioned in one story. Maybe one of the big freighters that shuttles goods between Kaiser Island and the Port of New Avalon gets caught in one?

-Joe-


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wxnut
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101 posts
Apr-19-07, 08:02 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #7
 
   >I
>was just thinking yesterday that New Avalon has nor'easters too, in
>fact, it was explicitly mentioned in one story. Maybe one of the big
>freighters that shuttles goods between Kaiser Island and the Port of
>New Avalon gets caught in one?

It's a big Dyson Sphere... I'm sure there's an equivalent to the Great Lakes somewhere on it.

Zack Seaholm - Anime fan, weathernut, worshipper of the goddess Belldandy.

Today's global thermonuclear war tactic: English Escalation
Winner: None


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jadmire
Charter Member
Apr-19-07, 08:18 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #8
 
   Certainly. It's called Lake Daniels. I don't think it's ever stated exactly how big the lake is, but I believe Gryphon has said that, like the Great Lakes on Earth, it's really a freshwater inland sea, and we know that it extends eastward at least a hundred miles (to Kaiser and Terminal Islands) and probably borders the pseudocontinent along its entire length; according to CSI New Avalon: Parallel Lines, the pseudocontinent extends at least 1,000 miles south/southwest of the city so probably a comparable distance to the north (or shorter considering that New Avalon is at a "northerly" location comparable to Boston/Toronto). And Lake Daniels definitely gets nor'easters. So...

-Joe-


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asuffield
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Apr-20-07, 06:42 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #8
 
   >>I
>>was just thinking yesterday that New Avalon has nor'easters too, in
>>fact, it was explicitly mentioned in one story. Maybe one of the big
>>freighters that shuttles goods between Kaiser Island and the Port of
>>New Avalon gets caught in one?
>
>It's a big Dyson Sphere... I'm sure there's an equivalent to the Great
>Lakes somewhere on it.

People always have difficulty comprehending quite how large a Dyson Sphere is. You could fit over 600 million scale models of the Earth's surface in there and still have enough space left over for New Avalon. Given the nature of the people who run the place, there is probably all kinds of bizarre junk on it, including a mountain range made from ice cream (old birthday present for Skuld) and a scale map of Mars (site of a Larry Niven fan convention) somewhere on it.


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-20-07, 09:10 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #10
 
   >and a scale map
>of Mars (site of a Larry Niven fan convention) somewhere on it.

For historical reasons, it would be extremely unlikely for the sphere's owners to go to any particular trouble for the sake of a Larry Niven convention. Back in the '80s, the WPI Science Fiction Society used to host an annual sci-fi convention, Technicon, on campus. That ended the year Larry Niven was the guest of honor. The SFS nearly ended the year Larry Niven was the guest of honor.

In conclusion, fuck Larry Niven.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Mephronmoderator
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1895 posts
Apr-20-07, 10:57 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #11
 
   >In conclusion, fuck Larry Niven.

Also, he's turned into the biggest hack this side of John Norman (writer of the {...} Of Gor series). I loved Ringworld, enjoyed Ringworld Engineers, enjoyed Tales Of Known Space, am a fan of Gil The Arm. Ringworld Throne was UNREADABLE. I haven't tried anything since.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


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twipper
Member since Jan-8-03
279 posts
Apr-20-07, 01:48 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #11
 
   I sense a good (if not paticularly fun) "Off the Top of My Head" story here.

Having been on con committees in the past, I can appreciate the problems caused by the guest of honor. However, I've never had anything quite that bad happen.

Brian


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McFortner
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Apr-20-07, 03:32 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #11
 
   I was a committee member for a convention in Omaha back in the early 90s that had him as a guest of honor. He was very, how do I put it, put out with people who were not his idea of what a proper fan of his should be: fawning but not fanboyish is the closest I can come up with. And you only got a few seconds to make an impression with him. Once you were on the shit list, it was all over.

I liked Ringworld and even borrowed it for a Spelljammer campaign I was running. Yep, that put me on the shit list in record time (less than 2 seconds IIRC).

So yes, he can be a prick. But can't we all? ;)

Michael



Michael C. Fortner
RCW #2n+1

"I smoke in moderation. Only one cigar at a time."
-- Mark Twain



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BobSchroeck
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Apr-20-07, 11:35 PM (EDT)
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15. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #14
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-07 AT 11:36 PM (EDT)
 
>He was very, how do I put it, put out with people who were not his idea of what a
>proper fan of his should be: fawning but not fanboyish is the closest I can come
>up with. And you only got a few seconds to make an impression with him. Once you
>were on the shit list, it was all over.

Geeze, I must have lucked out then... About ten years ago at a Philcon, Niven and I were sitting next to each other at a publisher's party, and ended up just chatting away with each other for a good twenty minutes to a half-hour. I can't even remember about what, but apparently I made a good impression, if what you say is true...

-- Bob
-------------------
The President is on the line
As ninety-nine crab rangoons go by...


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Gryphonadmin
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22374 posts
Apr-21-07, 00:17 AM (EDT)
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16. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #15
 
   >Geeze, I must have lucked out then... About ten years ago at a
>Philcon, Niven and I were sitting next to each other at a publisher's
>party, and ended up just chatting away with each other for a good
>twenty minutes to a half-hour. I can't even remember about
>what, but apparently I made a good impression, if what you say
>is true...

Perhaps when you encountered him, he was sober.

When he showed up for the Last Technicon? Not so much.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Offsides
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1264 posts
Apr-21-07, 00:27 AM (EDT)
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17. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #16
 
   >>Geeze, I must have lucked out then... About ten years ago at a
>>Philcon, Niven and I were sitting next to each other at a publisher's
>>party, and ended up just chatting away with each other for a good
>>twenty minutes to a half-hour. I can't even remember about
>>what, but apparently I made a good impression, if what you say
>>is true...
>
>Perhaps when you encountered him, he was sober.
>
>When he showed up for the Last Technicon? Not so much.
>
Very possible. I seem to recall running into him at Albacon in 2001 and having a pleasant conversation with him myself. But then again, I didn't know who he was initially (I realized it when I saw his badge), and I've never read any of his book either. It's one of several experiences I've had with "celebrities" where I've just treated them as normal people (usually because I didn't realize who they were), and ended up having decent conversations with them...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


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VoidRandom
Member since Dec-9-02
181 posts
May-28-07, 07:18 AM (EDT)
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18. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #16
 
   Probably...Both he and Jerry Pournelle quit drinking sometime in the 90s. And a good thing too. Every so often I hear a drunk Larry and/or Jerry story I've not heard before from aquaintances in the LASFS.

-VR
Insert Saying Here
"They copied all they could follow, but they couldn't copy my mind,
And I left 'em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind."


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SpottedKitty
Member since Jun-15-04
605 posts
Apr-17-07, 05:35 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #0
 
   Hmm. I only know this one because there's a filk to the same tune: The Ballad of Apollo XIII, which I've heard was sung to one of the Apollo 13 astronauts at a convention.

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.


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trboturtle
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Apr-18-07, 12:48 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: song, 2007.04.17"
In response to message #0
 
   That is probably ther most haunting song I've ever heard. I had never heard of the Edmund Fitzgerald before this song, but after hearing it and seeing a couple of shows about the incident, it's hard to forget, especially the last two lines of the song....

Craig


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