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Subject: "Tuesday, June 6, 1944"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Gryphonadmin
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06-06-04, 04:34 PM (EDT)
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"Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
 
   Come with me for a minute.

(Text version.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  Amen, Gryph. Amen. Star Ranger4 06-06-04 1
     RE: Amen, Gryph. Amen. Star Ranger4 06-08-04 5
  RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 NeoRavenK7 06-07-04 2
     RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Dreamshadow 06-08-04 4
  RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 DocMuiteam 06-07-04 3
  RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 trigger 06-08-04 6
     RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Gryphonadmin 06-08-04 7
  RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Blob 06-25-04 8
     RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Gryphonadmin 06-25-04 9
         RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Blob 06-26-04 10
  RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Verbena 06-29-04 11
     RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Gryphonadmin 06-29-04 12
         RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 trigger 06-29-04 13
         RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Star Ranger4 06-30-04 14
             RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944 Gryphonadmin 07-01-04 15

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Star Ranger4
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06-06-04, 08:40 PM (EDT)
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1. "Amen, Gryph. Amen."
In response to message #0
 
   I'd forgotten the significance of this day until a couple of hours ago, when my mom mentioned it to me.

She was a child during the war, but still remembers things like waiting outside the draft office while they did a medical examination on her brother Newel (4-f, if your wondering)

Her second Husband was a navigator on a B-17 during the war... He spent most of it in training, only being assigned to the 101st bomber wing a few months before the end of the war in Europe.

And hearing you speaking about this momentus day of sixty years ago, in that sonorus baratone of yours, brought a tear to my eye and a jump to my heart.

Thank you, gryph.


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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Star Ranger4
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06-08-04, 02:52 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Amen, Gryph. Amen."
In response to message #1
 
   I have a correction to make. It seems Jolly flew 22 missions over enemy held territory, and there is a picture of he and the rest of the flight crew taken on D-Day. Personally, I feel it was likely that he was part of the massive wave of bombers that went in to try and help destroy the beach defenses that morning.

and I've saved the audio version for my mom to listen to sometime.


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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NeoRavenK7
Member since 2-11-03
211 posts
06-07-04, 10:03 AM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #0
 
   Whoa... None of the documentaries I've ever seen made any mention of the Coast Gaurdsmen being there. Looks like I have to research this subject more thoroghly. In a ways, I kinda regret not having anyone in the family who stormed the beaches of Normandy. Rather, my Grandfather, God rest his soul, and his brothers were in the Pacific, helping to take back Midway, Polynesia, and the Philpines. Not that that wasn't a brave and honorable thing.

-NeoRaven


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Dreamshadow
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06-08-04, 07:44 AM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST EDITED ON 06-08-04 AT 07:45 AM (EDT)
 
>Whoa... None of the documentaries I've ever seen made any mention of
>the Coast Gaurdsmen being there. Looks like I have to research this
>subject more thoroghly. In a ways, I kinda regret not having anyone
>in the family who stormed the beaches of Normandy. Rather, my
>Grandfather, God rest his soul, and his brothers were in the Pacific,
>helping to take back Midway, Polynesia, and the Philpines. Not that
>that wasn't a brave and honorable thing.
>
>-NeoRaven

My grandfather, who passed on some years back (mid ninties), wouldn't discuss it much, but he served as a medical corpsman in the Pacific Theater. He was ashore at Okinawa and Iwo Jima. He had mentioned a few things about being in the war. But he was always close lipped about it. As he was an art teacher by trade, I believe he served simply because he felt he needed to serve. Once his time in the service was done he went back to being an art teacher and an artist and moved on.

One thing I've never been able to discover about World War 2, is how veterans of the war feel about the proliferation of games that deal with the war. I play Battlefield 1942 often as well as some strategy and war games based on the period. There are also board games and pencil and paper games dealing with this time period. I have always been curious how people feel about events that are re-enacted over and over like this. Is it something that should be handled just through writing and documentary? Or is this interactive method more dramatic, more real to the source?

Since I'm at work, I've not listened to your reading of the rant, but your writing is spot on. Good job, Gryph.

Tom 'Dreamshadow' Tjarks
------------------------
Remember the Vikings' mission statement: "Pillage before burning."


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DocMuiteam
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06-07-04, 04:53 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 06-07-04 AT 04:56 PM (EDT)
 
If memory serves me correctly, my grand-uncle was at Omaha beach. It was a joke that Sergeant Seow Gee had zippers on his stripes, as he was a hard-drinking, unrepentant smoker. I still remember his tobacco-ravaged voice keeping me up the one night I met him.

The last I heard any news about him, he was on oxygen. Truthfully, I'm not sure if he's still alive. I've had my doubts about whether or not he was really there--until I realize that even he wouldn't BS about something like that.

Thanks, grand-uncle. We owe you.

--DocMui


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trigger
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06-08-04, 03:07 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 06-08-04 AT 03:07 PM (EDT)
 
>Come with me for a minute.


That deserves placement in the best war memorials in history. My hat is off to you - for the first time in this bloody, godforsaken year where old men again send the young to die, I remember what it was all about.

Every generation is called on to defend the world, to keep men free, and repair the world. That generation stood and did so magnificently. I will not call them the greatest like Brokaw, because I think their task was the most clear, the evil the most obvious. Other generations, like my parents and, I believe, ours, lack that clarity of vision. Nonetheless, we too face it. I only hope that my generation and my children's live up to the task.

My grandfather is an SOB, but he was an engineer, and setup lines of communication in Algeria for the conquest of Italy and the great deception of the Reich. I couldn't give a rats ass if he lives or dies now, but I think I might send him a thank you card. My uncle Marcel in the French Resistance definitely deserves one, although he treats his family like chattel. Maybe I'll ask my grandmother, holocaust survivor, to tell him. And then I'll thank her too, for resisting the great evil that truly threatend us all in her small ways. I wouldn't exist if it wasn't for those great, angry, scared, cowardly, heroic, average, amazing, foolish, normal men and women who took those beaches on the Normandy coast, the tiny villages, the machine gun nests, the bridges, and killing lanes, and kept fighting for 9 more months. God bless them all.

t.
Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"If we are marked to die, we are enough
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater the share of honour
God's will I pray thee wish not one man more" - Henry V, Act, IV Scene III


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Gryphonadmin
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06-08-04, 04:05 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #6
 
   >Every generation is called on to defend the world, to keep men free,
>and repair the world. That generation stood and did so magnificently.
> I will not call them the greatest like Brokaw, because I think their
>task was the most clear, the evil the most obvious.

My grandfather has always believed this of World War II. He was too young to fight - when it ended in Europe, he had just turned 15 - but he spent almost 20 years in the Army Reserve before resigning in the 60s by way of objecting to the war in Vietnam. I started taking an interest in WWII at a fairly early age - say, junior high school - and in the many conversations we've had about it, one of the things he's said time and time again was, "That war had to be fought. What the Allies did had to be done." He's never felt the same was true of any of the wars the United States has gotten involved in since, and though we've never talked much about his feelings in that regard, I think that saddens him.

My two cousins, his other grandsons, are both Marines, and both are either in or have been in Iraq. He's proud of them, has the "My Grandson Is a U.S. Marine" bumper sticker and all that, but I don't think that pride extends to the war itself, like it obviously does when he talks about the fight against Hitler.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Blob
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06-25-04, 04:25 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #0
 
   That's a truly great speech Gryphon, I salute you.
Too bad my family was on the wrong side of the front lines. Ah well, at least none of my relatives were in Normandy to get killed and the managed to keep the family history clean. Actually I'm not completely sure about my paternal grandfather, he died before I was old enough to ask him about that time in his life, but my maternal Grandfather and his brother both were just simple medics. My Grandfather was in the Africa Corps, my grand uncle was in the 6th Army. (luckyly he was wounded, sent back to Germany and was then transfered to another unit, before they reached Stalingrad)

My thanks go out to all the brave men and women who fought against the Nazis back then. Living here would be much less fun if that damn Austrian midget had won the war.

-----------------
"LIFE! DO YOU HEAR ME!? LIFE! GIVE MY CREATION LIIIIIFEEEE!!!"
"You do know that screaming at the computer won't improve your writing skills, right?"


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Gryphonadmin
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06-25-04, 04:47 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #8
 
   >My thanks go out to all the brave men and women who fought against the
>Nazis back then.

It's interesting to see this, as it's something I hadn't considered when I wrote the article. It was originally presented in my column in the local newspaper, and was aimed mainly at the local veterans of the war; I hadn't given any thought to how it might be received by a German. I'm glad you appreciate it, and that you recognize that being anti-Nazi and being anti-German are different things, especially now.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Blob
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06-26-04, 04:50 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #9
 
   >I'm glad you appreciate it, and that you recognize that being
>anti-Nazi and being anti-German are different things, especially now.
>

You're welcome.
Actually only an utter idiot (or those fascist bastards who are still around) could interpret that article as being anti-German.
Speaking of those fascists, I'm actually dreading the next national elections overe here. Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid, but it looks like they actually have a realistic, small but realistc, chance of getting into parliament. *shudder*

-----------------
"LIFE! DO YOU HEAR ME!? LIFE! GIVE MY CREATION LIIIIIFEEEE!!!"
"You do know that screaming at the computer won't improve your writing skills, right?"


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Verbena
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06-29-04, 10:18 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #0
 
   I only saw this piece today (June 29), on the Rants page, since I'm not on the General forum very often. All the same, I wanted to thank you for writing this. It does my heart proud to see people willing to go the extra yard to thank the men who fought that day, that campaign, that war. I unfortunately don't have the right to salute anyone, but my hat off to you, just the same.


What really impresses me, though, is that there's surely at least one person on the forum who doesn't support the current war, and yet everything said about D-Day is respectful and reverent. It does my heart glad to finally see people who can speak intelligently about touchy subjects like this, and not let any dislike for current policy become an ad hominem attack on everything the US has ever done militarily. I've seen enough of that.


"They say one should not speak unkindly of the dead, so I say, 'nice try'." --Lezard


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Gryphonadmin
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06-29-04, 10:51 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #11
 
   >What really impresses me, though, is that there's surely at least one
>person on the forum who doesn't support the current war,

Certainly there is. Me, for instance.

"'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'"
- G.K. Chesterton

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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trigger
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06-29-04, 11:28 AM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #12
 
   LAST EDITED ON 06-29-04 AT 11:28 AM (EDT)
 
>"'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think
>of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother,
>drunk or sober.'"
> - G.K. Chesterton

amen.

t.
Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"If we are marked to die, we are enough
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater the share of honour
God's will I pray thee wish not one man more" - Henry V, Act, IV Scene III


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Star Ranger4
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06-30-04, 06:01 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #12
 
   >"'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think
>of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother,
>drunk or sober.'"
> - G.K. Chesterton

Actually, that can be argued. And the problem with it is an overgeneralization. Using Chesterton here as an example, Your mother remains your mother reguardless of if she IS drunk or sober. You might love her, or not, but it still remains that she is what she is.

Which to mean also means that a patriot WOULD say "My country, right or wrong" because like myself, they believe in their country reguardless of if they believe its current actions are whats best or not! For myself, I believe the decision to oust Husain was one that should have been made ten years ago. I do have concerns about handing control back to the Iraqui provisional government, but just that its been to soon, not that it shouldn't have been done.


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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07-01-04, 00:52 AM (EDT)
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15. "RE: Tuesday, June 6, 1944"
In response to message #14
 
   >>"'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think
>>of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother,
>>drunk or sober.'"
>> - G.K. Chesterton
>
>Actually, that can be argued.

Anything can be argued, including this.

That doesn't make arguing about it worth the time...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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