Movies... this is harder in movies. You want to give everyone at least one good scene but often that's all they can get.

-Merc
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Even the original series movies suffered from this. Not a one of them did justice to all the characters. You basically come down to the Trinity taking the spotlight and everybody else standing in the background.

Hm, makes me wonder if the JJVerse version of ST would work better as a proper TV series instead.

Michael C. Fortner
"Maxim 37: There is no such thing as "overkill".
There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload".

For the reasons everyone has enumerated above, Star Trek always works better as a TV series by definition, so, signs point to yes. Let's face it, neither Star Trek: The Motion Picture nor Star Trek (2009) would have been comprehensible if virtually all the people watching them hadn't already been familiar with the setting and characters.

--G.
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Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Enh, it depends. My first ever movie seen in theater - and my first ever exposure to Trek - was seeing ST2:TWOK when it hit. It blew the shit out of me, I thought it was incredible. I loved every minute.

The Motion Picture just dropped you in and explained precisely dick. Same with NuTrek. It didn't tell you anything except how it was DIFFERENT.

(incidentally, I'm still angry that they're calling the NuTrek the 'Kelvin Timeline' when multiple timelines are *explicitly* not how time travel works in Star Trek. There is only ONE timeline, and time travelers are exempt from the effects of the changes. The changes they make HAPPEN and overwrite the original world. Did nobody on the production team watch City on the Edge of Forever? Or any of the other dozen or so time travel episodes that all confirm this exact thing?)

(For that matter, it's clear that there was ALREADY changes considering the state of the ship Kirk's dad was on was clearly far more advanced than that of even a new Refit Connie. The entire premise is bullshit! And I'm a fool for seeing all three NuTreks to date in theatre and being part of the problem...)

This is easy to No-Prize though: they've jumped dimensions as well as times.

Trek already acknowledges alternate realities exist (see anything involving the mirror universe.) NuTrek is just a case of folks who thought they were moving horizontally in time actually moving diagonally in time and reality.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "Now, if they could cut back on both sorts of movement, that'd be great..."

At least in the live action TV shows. I'm....hesitant to include the comics and animated series in canon.

I believe you have forgotten Parallels.

hello 911 yes star trek nerds are arguing about completely made-up fine points of fictional pseudoscience on my website yes i'll hold

Tomato, tomat naHmey :D

(@set me/Pedant-Mode=On)

Actually, Star Trek (2009) is explicitly not the same timeline as Classic Trek. How do we know? George Kirk et al see Romulans on-screen and recognize them as Romulans. In Classic Trek no human had seen a Romulan prior to Balance of Terror.

(@set me/Pedant-Mode=Off)

That said, this is really the point where Trek has said "Look. We gave the Continuity Wonks Enterprise, and it went to some really shitty places in the name of Continuity Wonking. So we're not going to do that anymore. Forget everything about Star Trek, we're taking the basic setup and moving from there and anything you think you know may or may not be true."

And then JJ Abrams made a couple of really good Star Wars movies starring Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto.

I don't actually know how much STO is a factor in all this, but I'm pretty sure they have to be making money, and AFAIK they're the only property doing anything with the original continuity. Which is just as well, because not unlike what happened to the Star Wars EU, as soon as anyone makes a new Star Trek movie in the original continuity, STO will suddenly become non-canon. I'd...actually hate to see that, even if STO is nowhere near perfect.

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her

Discovery will be original continuity when it eventually drops.

-Merc
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Also, the Feddies and Romulans had a war like a hundred years before Balance of Terror, didn't they? Surely SOMEONE must have seen them at that point, but nobody had in a long-ass time so it was a shock to the crew that they were basically Roman Vulcans.

(it's been a while since I've properly Trek'd. I should do something about that.)

Indeed not. It was a remote-control war; they blew each other up at long range with radar-guided nuclear missiles. Neither side saw any member of the other, just their ships. (This was basically the biggest plot point in "Balance of Terror", narrowly edging out "being the captain of a starship sucks sometimes.")

Presumably the writers of the 2009 film either forgot that detail, never knew it, or chose to ignore it.

--G.
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Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

That must've been a weird-ass war, too. Why did they even *go* to war, anyway?

*really* have to do a proper Trek soon....

I don't recall that ever being explained, but it probably had to do with conflicting expansion priorities, like pretty much every war between two colonial powers ever.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Oddly enough, this is part of why I enjoyed Beyond so much. It felt like a season finale of a possible NuTrek show. Probably helped I'd been reading the comic series for years.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

While you make a strong point, I'm going to argue: NuTrek's biggest problem is that they fucked up Jim Kirk massively hard, and whatever else they might do right or wrong, it is hard to get past the fact that they fucked up the central pillar of that flavor of the franchise.

I mean... I get it, it's a different timeline and whatnot. But they didn't HAVE to turn Kirk into the caricatured version of himself. Kirk the banging-green-women, go-with-his-guy-in-all-situations, arrogant, dismissive asshole isn't actually Jim Kirk. It's the satirical version of Kirk that has been used so many times (looking at you, Zapp Branigan) that instead of satirizing the concept it instead reifies it.

-Merc
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