That said, I agree that these are fun outfits, particularly the first set. I thought they were a little risque too before being reminded they're actually modest compared to most witches. Ah, the irony.

In any case, these are pretty awesome. Thanks!

------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge

Indigo is a fun color! But it's just a shade of blue, it doesn't need its own slot in the rainbow. :)

(I'm with you about Pluto, though. Friggin' astronomers.)

>That said, I agree that these are fun outfits, particularly the first
>set. I thought they were a little risque too before being reminded
>they're actually modest compared to most witches. Ah, the irony.

Shorts may yet catch on among the witches of 1946, although if I do that I will invalidate all existing Strike Witches art for use with OWaW, which is always the annoying part about changing the designs of imported characters in UF. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I am of the opinion that those who postulate that all our recent troubles got started when the scientists demoted Pluto may be onto something.

>That said, I agree that these are fun outfits, particularly the first
>set. I thought they were a little risque too before being reminded
>they're actually modest compared to most witches. Ah, the irony.
>

Fictional considerations aside, all of the above are quite modest by Danbooru standards. I wouldn't even mind so much if half of the outfits, poses, and... arrangements weren't just so incongruous with the characters (both as I know them from here, and with how they are at times drawn.) After swimming in those waters for a while, my perspective may have shifted a bit, or at least I've come to filter out most of the 'that part is just... no' in favor of appreciating the lovely bits.

>In any case, these are pretty awesome. Thanks!
>

You're welcome, glad these weren't interesting to just me.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "This Space For Rent."

I hadn't even considered opera, though I suppose in hindsight I should have (not sure Meiling would be a huge fan, but she's generally agreeable enough and if it makes Sakuya smile she's likely to be all for it.) Also little world building tidbits like this are always nice to see.

>I like these a lot, especially Remi's. I feel like she might adopt
>that as a battle uniform if and when she formally joins the war
>effort. The skirt's quite short by her usual standards, but when in
>Rome...
>

Heh, i hadn't thought of that as an excuse for the usual Danbooru habit of 'even our clean stuff is slightly risque'. Though I suppose also a shorter skirt (possibly with some leggings/tights) would be better for battle than something fancy and flowing.

>(And Flan is scandalizing the witches with her blatant wearing of
>shorts, proving that they could too if they wanted to. :)
>

I could swear I've seen one or two Strike Witches characters in what look like bike shorts (that might be another rabbit hole I fall down now.) At this point they might well be chalking it up to tradition though, "the first witches in the war just had to jump right into their strikers, no time to find or make shorts, and we honor them by continuing to fly dressed as they were."

>(The little details like the bat badge several of them are wearing,
>Flan's Lævatein brooch, Remi's boots, and, uh, everything about
>Koakuma are very nice touches, too.)
>

All the details in that piece were too good to sit on, plus for the most part the energy in the poses and expressions struck me as excellent, particularly Remilia and Meiling (who looks like she's just about to get into a fight and thinking "buddy, you're about to experience what I do best, hope you've got good healthcare.")

>Pretty. I like it when artists depict Flandre as a snappy dresser, as
>opposed to the usual "she's insane and lives in a basement, how does
>she even manage to dress herself as well as she's dressed in the
>official art anyway?" approach.
>

This is actually the pic that started me fully down into the pit. Saw it and that outfit as a Youtube thumbnail, cursed that they didn't link the image in the description, and went hunting. Found the others along the way, and once I finally tracked this one down, well, we ended up here.

>That particular artist seems to be using the alternate "ROYGCBV"
>rainbow order one sees in some more recent textbooks (which omits
>indigo and inserts cyan between blue and violet so there can still be
>seven colors). I'm on the fence about that particular pedagogical
>innovation. On the one hand, it does make more sense as a description
>of the reality (since "indigo" is a nonsense color and the "seven
>colors" of a rainbow are arbitrary distinctions anyway, supposedly
>chosen by Newton because, being as much medieval alchemist as modern
>physicist, he believed seven was part of the Divine Plan); on the
>other, it's New-Fangled Revisionism and it screws up the acronym. :)
>

Hmm, might be monitor calibration, I can see how the one crystal visible next to the green on the right side could be cyan rather than blue, but the next one in line on that side looks like it has too much red to be the blue in the alternative color scheme. Might be they sort of split the difference and went ROYGCIV.

>weirdly, in elementary school ca. 1980 I was taught it
>the other way around, starting at violet, even though VIBGYOR makes no
>sense as an acronym for anything.

Seems somehow Russian, like some sort of shadow agency. "Contact VIBGYOR HQ and tell them the ball has been deflated," or some such.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "This Space For Rent."

(nod) Meiling would enjoy an occasion like that more for the sense of, well, occasion, and the whole Family Outing thing, than on the merits of the art itself—although she likes Big Performances, so Wagner would probably appeal, even though she doesn't understand the language it's in. At any rate, she is at least sophisticated enough that it wouldn't be like the episode of Cheers where Diane dragged the whole gang from the bar to Lohengrin.

Also (speaking of), going to the opera means Sakuya wears that dress, which... well. That beats a sharp stick in the eye any day of the week.

(I think the artist was trying to Make A Point about the tired old fan trope of "Sakuya pads her bra" with that outfit. :)

That said, of the house's five "current" residents, I can see Meiling as the only one willing to sit through an entire performance of Love Amongst the Dragons. She probably even knows the libretto.

>>I like these a lot, especially Remi's. I feel like she might adopt
>>that as a battle uniform if and when she formally joins the war
>>effort. The skirt's quite short by her usual standards, but when in
>>Rome...
>
>Heh, i hadn't thought of that as an excuse for the usual Danbooru
>habit of 'even our clean stuff is slightly risque'. Though I suppose
>also a shorter skirt (possibly with some leggings/tights) would be
>better for battle than something fancy and flowing.

Yeah, you don't want to go into aerial combat wearing anything that's going to cause drag.

>>(And Flan is scandalizing the witches with her blatant wearing of
>>shorts, proving that they could too if they wanted to. :)
>
>I could swear I've seen one or two Strike Witches characters in what
>look like bike shorts (that might be another rabbit hole I fall down
>now.)

In addition to the ones who routinely wear pantyhose (e.g., Perrine, Sanya) or heavy tights (every witch from Suomus I've ever seen), there is at least one canonical witch, albeit one who never appears in the TV series, who wears actual trousers—Adolfine Galland, who appears in the World Witches artbook in Molly Millions-style very tight leather jeans. I think Hanna Rudel might as well.

>At this point they might well be chalking it up to tradition
>though, "the first witches in the war just had to jump right into
>their strikers, no time to find or make shorts, and we honor them by
>continuing to fly dressed as they were."

The anime never attempts to explain the phenomenon, but there's some inconsistency about whether it's only witches who dress that way or what. For instance, there are a couple of scenes set in the hospital where Trude's younger sister is a patient during the first season, and none of the nurses are wearing pants or skirts either; it's unclear whether that's supposed to mean they're also witches (albeit noncombatant ones), or if it's just that no young woman in the World Witches universe wears lower garments, and if the latter, what the heck is up with that. I think probably the animators just got carried away.

(There are also some Imperial Fusō Army witches in the sourcebooks who dress in modified miko outfits with abbreviated, but still present, hakama, presumably because they would either not be wearing underwear, or would be wearing fundoshi, which are even harder to sell than normal panties under the "not underwear so it's not embarrassing" rubric.)

For OWaW purposes, I haven't explored it on-screen either, but I've been proceeding under the assumption that it's some kind of strange cultural thing with the fighting witches, possibly stemming from War I (and it may, as you say, have something to do with the emergency nature of early witch aviation), and that "normal" girls and women (e.g., Liesel from the Hartmann Flying School seen in Alternate Arrangements) do dress like women did IRL in 1946. OTOH, retired witches like Wilma (when she first appears) and Francie Whittle still dress as if they were on active duty. (To be fair, this may reflect how much they both wish they were still on active duty.)

>All the details in that piece were too good to sit on, plus for the
>most part the energy in the poses and expressions struck me as
>excellent, particularly Remilia and Meiling (who looks like she's just
>about to get into a fight and thinking "buddy, you're about to
>experience what I do best, hope you've got good healthcare.")

This reminds me—somewhere in DBland there is a short MeiSaku manga where they go on a date in the Normal World, and Meiling is late. Because it's that kind of manga, Sakuya is promptly set upon by a pair of Standard Creeper Dudes (you know, the faceless young men who travel in packs of two or three and hit on girls they see standing around alone—"Looks like you got stood up, why don't you hang out with us?").

Sakuya being Sakuya, she's surreptitiously reaching for the sharp objects when Meiling suddenly shows up and beats the crap out of both dudes—not to be particularly white-knight-y toward Sakuya, so much as to preclude her from just murdering them in the street. It's a rare depiction of Meiling being fully genre-savvy and I am here for it, as the young people say. :)

(She then maneuvers Sakuya into a formalwear shop and Just Sorta Casually gets her to try on a wedding dress, which is probably the smoothest you will ever see Meiling being, if you happen to run across that manga. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

This causes me to envision a mildly flustered, massively blushing Meiling the first time she saw said dress, which is just adorable.

>(I think the artist was trying to Make A Point about the tired old fan
>trope of "Sakuya pads her bra" with that outfit. :)
>

What is it with the fandom and cruel tropes about these characters?

>That said, of the house's five "current" residents, I can see Meiling
>as the only one willing to sit through an entire performance of
>Love Amongst the Dragons. She probably even knows the
>libretto.
>

I feel like I should recognize that name, but I don't. Is that opera just a running joke I've failed to pick up entirely?

>The anime never attempts to explain the phenomenon, but there's some
>inconsistency about whether it's only witches who dress that way or
>what. For instance, there are a couple of scenes set in the hospital
>where Trude's younger sister is a patient during the first season, and
>none of the nurses are wearing pants or skirts either; it's unclear
>whether that's supposed to mean they're also witches (albeit
>noncombatant ones), or if it's just that no young woman in the
>World Witches universe wears lower garments, and if the latter,
>what the heck is up with that. I think probably the animators just
>got carried away.
>

If it was a military hospital I could see it being part of the ladies' uniform, done at least on paper to keep the combat witches from feeling as self conscious because otherwise they'd stand out even amongst other enlisted personnel.

Could also be people doing a bit of hero worshiping and emulation, and the powers that be not wanting to tank morale by squashing the fashion. Though probably it is as you suggest, the animators getting carried away (that's the word of god explanation for 2B's outfit over in Nier: Automata, she is dressed as she is because Yoko Taro likes pretty girls, and is also completely out of f*cks to give.)

>This reminds me—somewhere in DBland there is a short MeiSaku manga
>where they go on a date in the Normal World, and Meiling is late.
>Because it's that kind of manga, Sakuya is promptly set upon by a pair
>of Standard Creeper Dudes (you know, the faceless young men who travel
>in packs of two or three and hit on girls they see standing around
>alone—"Looks like you got stood up, why don't you hang out with
>us?").
>
>Sakuya being Sakuya, she's surreptitiously reaching for the sharp
>objects when Meiling suddenly shows up and beats the crap out of both
>dudes—not to be particularly white-knight-y toward Sakuya, so much
>as to preclude her from just murdering them in the street.
>It's a rare depiction of Meiling being fully genre-savvy and I am here
>for it, as the young people say. :)
>

They'll never know just how close to death they came. They really ought to send Meiling thank-you gifts.

>(She then maneuvers Sakuya into a formalwear shop and Just Sorta
>Casually gets her to try on a wedding dress, which is probably the
>smoothest you will ever see Meiling being, if you happen to run
>across that manga. :)
>

Smooth, but also something of an atomic bomb of a hint, unless Sakuya is being depicted as uncharacteristically oblivious.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "This Space For Rent."

oh jeez oh jeez don't know what to do with my eyes or my hands...

>>(I think the artist was trying to Make A Point about the tired old fan
>>trope of "Sakuya pads her bra" with that outfit. :)
>
>What is it with the fandom and cruel tropes about these characters?

Hell if I know. Sturgeon's Law as applied to fandom sentiments toward characters, I suppose.

That particular one stems from her design in one of the Touhou-themed fighting games, in which her character portrait is drawn somewhat more buxom than she looked in her previous appearances in the bullet hell games. Like all such fan jokes, it promptly took on a life of its own and started its own casino with blackjack and hookers.

(And if you're That Kind of Fan, it synergizes well with the take where Sakuya is constantly assaulting Meiling, because Meiling is forever finding out about the pads without really meaning to and then being punised for it.)

A lot of the darker/meaner fan tropes in Touhou fandom remind me of Greek myth. Specifically how people in Greek myth are constantly being punished by the gods for having witnessed, or even been the victims of, the crimes of other gods, rather than for anything THEY did. There's probably some deep-rooted cultural weirdness behind this.

>>That said, of the house's five "current" residents, I can see Meiling
>>as the only one willing to sit through an entire performance of
>>Love Amongst the Dragons. She probably even knows the
>>libretto.
>
>I feel like I should recognize that name, but I don't. Is that opera
>just a running joke I've failed to pick up entirely?

It's a Fire Nation opera from the Avatar: The Last Airbender setting that... I don't remember if it actually appears on the show, but it's like a running joke within Avatar itself that it's hard to get all the way through. (It's popped up a couple of times in the bits of UF that are set in Dìqiú. Kate likes the score, but can't handle the way most performing troupes stage the opera itself.)

>Though probably it is as you suggest, the animators getting
>carried away (that's the word of god explanation for 2B's outfit over
>in Nier: Automata, she is dressed as she is because Yoko Taro likes
>pretty girls, and is also completely out of f*cks to give.)

Heh. I have to admit, I kind of enjoy it when the people behind things like that don't even bother hiding it. Like Masamune Shirow's annotation about the orgy scene in the original Ghost in the Shell manga where he notes, "I made this an all-girl orgy because I didn't want to draw some guy's butt. God, this is crass." :)

>>It's a rare depiction of Meiling being fully genre-savvy and I am here
>>for it, as the young people say. :)
>
>They'll never know just how close to death they came. They really
>ought to send Meiling thank-you gifts.

Indeed, if they were only aware that the girl they were (metaphorically) circling wasn't putting her hands behind her back as a girlishly cute gesture of apprehension, but because that's where she keeps the knives in that particular civilian outfit. :)

>>(She then maneuvers Sakuya into a formalwear shop and Just Sorta
>>Casually gets her to try on a wedding dress, which is probably the
>>smoothest you will ever see Meiling being, if you happen to run
>>across that manga. :)
>
>Smooth, but also something of an atomic bomb of a hint, unless Sakuya
>is being depicted as uncharacteristically oblivious.

She's not presented as oblivious so much as conflicted/in denial. Like she's trying to convince herself that, even though they're on a date, Meiling isn't really all that into her, and the wedding store thing is just her idea of a weird joke.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

From what I've seen, the original artwork is... only vaguely suggestive of any final character design. What I've found, even Meiling looks a good bit less endowed in her original form, and pretty much all fanart of her seems to accept that she has huge tracts of land.

>A lot of the darker/meaner fan tropes in Touhou fandom remind me of
>Greek myth. Specifically how people in Greek myth are constantly
>being punished by the gods for having witnessed, or even been the
>victims of, the crimes of other gods, rather than for anything THEY
>did. There's probably some deep-rooted cultural weirdness behind
>this.
>

Possibly. I just end up feeling bad for the abused characters, so it is good to see them end up in a good home.

>It's a Fire Nation opera from the Avatar: The Last Airbender
>setting that... I don't remember if it actually appears on the show,
>but it's like a running joke within Avatar itself that it's
>hard to get all the way through. (It's popped up a couple of times in
>the bits of UF that are set in Dìqiú. Kate likes the
>score, but can't handle the way most performing troupes stage the
>opera itself.)
>

Ah, that explains why it is familiar, but I couldn't resolve the reference.

>She's not presented as oblivious so much as conflicted/in denial.
>Like she's trying to convince herself that, even though they're on a
>date, Meiling isn't really all that into her, and the wedding store
>thing is just her idea of a weird joke.
>

A portion of the fanart does seem to follow that line as well, seems that might be a motivation (subconscious or otherwise) for why you started them in a 'Sakuya is hesitant for reasons' state and then promptly tossed that out on its ear so they could actually be happy.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "It will be interesting to see either of them attempt to square away the paperwork for marriage license though."

It's like Japanese artists think it correlates with height or something, I dunno. I haven't had occasion to mention it beyond noting that she's built like a brick overpass, but ours is... proportionate. :)

>A portion of the fanart does seem to follow that line as well, seems
>that might be a motivation (subconscious or otherwise) for why you
>started them in a 'Sakuya is hesitant for reasons' state and then
>promptly tossed that out on its ear so they could actually be happy.

Not gonna lie, that bit is one of my favorite scenes thus far, partly because it has some of the best lines (IIDSSM), but largely because it dismantles both the "Sakuya can't handle relationships" thing and the "Remilia is a cruel and capricious boss, especially to Meiling" thing, both of which dog the Touhou fan works continuum like dark matter.

>"It will be interesting to see either of them attempt to square
>away the paperwork for marriage license though."

That poor guy in the Colmar mairie. He thought the vampire walking in off the street and telling him straight-up "I'm a vampire and my birth date is in 1503, which is why I don't have the piece of paper you want" was a strange evening at the office...

"Occupation: Dragon"

(I can easily see Meiling taking the line that it's not one woman marrying another because she isn't a woman. It wouldn't work, but I can easily see her taking it. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

IIRC While the Avatar crew are hiding in the Fire Nation in the third season, they go to a play and Zuko notes that his mother dragged his family to see this troupe perform Love Amongst the Dragons every year (before his backstory happened). It was not one of Zuko's happy memories of his early life, although I suppose once 'the call' happened, it put the performances into perspective.

The reason Zuko's mother was so fond of the play gets explored in the later comics, I believe.

The others caught up to her a minute or two later, at which
point, seeing the actors' costumes, Korra laughed, keeping her voice
down for the sake of nearby patrons of the arts.
"Oh, man, Love Amongst the Dragons? Haven't seen -this- in a
while," she said quietly. Turning to the others, she asked, "Do you
guys want to stay for the rest of this? It's probably not gonna make
much sense without the first act."
Anne grinned and replied, "I don't think we have a choice." She
indicated her attentively listening swordmaster. "We'd need a taser to
get Kaitlyn-sensei away from here now that she's interested in their
orchestra."
Korra turned and craned her neck to see the stage over the
audience's heads. "Let's see... OK, yeah, it's the Hira'a Acting
Troupe. That's a relief. The Ember Island Players come through here
every year on their tour and -murder- this one. These guys are all
right."
— Avatar Korra, “Honeymoon by the Sea”

"Well, Kate, I've missed a few birthdays," she said wryly, "but
I think this'll make a start on making up for it." So saying, she
pulled out a couple of large books. "This," she went on, sliding the
first across, "is the complete libretto and score to the classical
version of 'Love Amongst the Dragons' - which is the only version, as
far as I'm concerned," she added with a wink.
— Avatar Korra, “What’s Past Is Prolouge”

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here" Fandoms -- Fanart -- Fan Meta Discussions

Found it!

--G.
"Shop assistant! I'll take this girl home! Please wrap her up neatly!"
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>"Shop assistant! I'll take this girl home! Please wrap
>her up neatly!"

Pool: Quotable Dialog.

Yup, that checks out.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "This Space For Rent."

Hey, as long as everyone's happy...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

That was also my reasoning, but the texture as shown is so smooth it could be cheesecake. Might just be the nature of the art though, so viewer's choice.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "In either case, it still shows a playfulness with the whole vampire thing, which always amuses me."

Yeah, that's definitely a special-occasion outfit. Diplomatic reception for the Barovian ambassador, maybe. :)

>There's also an equivalent Remilia which is equally pretty art, but somehow I see the Flandre
>pic as fitting her character more. YMMV so have both.

That one gives me "in New Avalon, just elected Red Queen of the Hellfire Club" vibes. ;)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

related flash image:

REMILIA
I am not normally a particularly jealous or possessive person, Ms. Frost. But in your very specific and personal case, if you ever presume to lay a hand on my husband, I will shatter you into a million pieces and wear you to the opera as sequins on my dress. Am I making myself clear?

EMMA
... Abundantly, darling. More tea?

REMILIA
Thank you.

—Gryphon has no idea how this exchange led to the two of them being friends.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Yeah. Normally, Touhou characters have to actually get in a fight to become friends. This is quite the anomaly.

That's easy. It's the whole, "Lady, I *like* your moxy" thing going on.

They made the position just for her, didn't they?

	-={(Astynax)}=- "This Space For Rent."

Almost certainly.

--G.
Flandre is lobbying for a bishopric. She wants to wear the hat.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

She miter look cute in it.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

That actually made me audibly groan.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "It's near certain she would look cute in it, though I don't think that's the image the club wants to project."

It's always massively amusing whenever I remember that here, the Hellfire Club (and their canon institutional dress sense) are on the side of the good guys.

Or in Emma's case, the "just drawn that way" side...

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "No idea why poor Meiling has an eyepatch though."

Indeed, I could see it—in her other Fancy Outfit, more likely, but complete with Meiling standing there next to her chair like some kind of bodyguard, just for the effect—if she had to welcome someone she didn't really like the idea of having in her house, and wished to establish the proper mood.*

(Bunny Sakuya, less so. :)

>"No idea why poor Meiling has an eyepatch though."

In the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderland film that came out around the same time as this picture's dated, the Knave of Hearts wears a patch on his left eye. I don't know if that, in turn, is ever explained, since I haven't seen the film, but I'm guessing that's what it's in reference to.

--G.
* "Welcome to Maison Diable Écarlate, General. Enter freely and of your own will... and may the gods have mercy on your soul."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Eh, it's fine. Threads don't cost extra. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Could be worse, you could have gone farther afield and mixed her name up with Sadako.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "Though Sakuya emerging from a television to throw innumerable knives into hapless victims could also be the basis for a horror series."

Random image: Crossover where the TV Sadako crawls out of belongs to that guy from A Certain Magical Index who is Immune to Magic Bullshit, and she's just like, well shit, you want to order a pizza or something?

>"Though Sakuya emerging from a television to throw innumerable
>knives into hapless victims could also be the basis for a horror
>series."

I would be shocked if no one has ever done a "bullet hell comes out of your computer" fan comic at some point. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Somehow, this resulted in a mental image of Sadako delivering pizzas.

Peter Eng
--
My brain continues to be a strange place.

Through people's TV sets?

--G.
delivered on the wings of... something
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Seven days to deliver a pizza seems a bit slow to me.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "We're all mad here."

>"Though Sakuya emerging from a television to throw innumerable knives
>into hapless victims could also be the basis for a horror series."

Hah.

That reminds me that somewhere out there there's a video clip of a group of J-pop Idols (called Morning Musume) where someone decides to pull the Sadako prank on them, complete with Sadako suddenly bursting out of the TV.

You ever seen a flock of birds suddenly spring up into the air all at once in a HOLY HELL EVERYONE PANIC flight? That's pretty much what happened on the set.

Yep. Just got off the train at the Gare de l'Est, ready the spend the day arranging mysterious, precisely-timed night-time deliveries of things to a mysterious house in the Alsatian hills with a range of bemused but game-for-that-kind-of-money Paris mercantile establishments. Hey, that piano got into the music room somehow. :)

(Loving the jacket in particular. Although I thought the X-Men costumes of the 1990s overdid it, I do like a buckly garment on a well-shaped lady, me. :)

>Next up a mostly combat ready
>outift, though the artist went with some dramatic but probably
>dangerous flapping-in-the-wind bits that Sakuya would probably be too
>practical to actually include.

In fairness to the artist, giant bows on the back of ladies' garments is a Touhou signature; they just don't usually have quite such colossal trailing ends.

Again, the high point of this one to me is the waistcoat. I can see Meiling strategizing about how she's going to get that third buckle at the same time when she's only got two hands. :)

(I recognize that corsets in their "native" form are hideously unpleasant garments that serve no useful function, and I would never wish one on anybody. The purely decorative variety, however, I find quite... well, decorative. Not sure what that says about me.)

>Then a variation where it looks, to me, like
>someone gave her the bloody card to play with, and that was probably a bad day for any targets
>she had.

I've seen a bunch of artwork that associates Sakuya with playing cards—I think it may have something to do with the mechanics of the "Touhouvania" games, which this costume comes from (same source as Remilia's Really Fancy Outfit™). That, and her costume from those games has something of a "riverboat gambler" flavor to it, but that might just be me. :)

That said, the Bloody Card seems like the sort of weapon that Sakuya would appreciate. It ticks the "spooky bloodletting at a distance" box on the form. (Also reminds me that we haven't seen G use one in ages. He used to, occasionally, having picked it up from Yuri during the Golden Age.)

>And finally (for this post)
>another version of the pinstripes because she really rocks them IMHO. From the look of it,
>whoever she's looking at is also about to get rocked, and not in any
>fun interpretation of that phrase.

Meiling saw that look come into Sakuya's eyes. "Uh, Gryph?" she said. "It's time to get behind something now."

>"Tangentially related, finding really good Meiling pics is actually
>irritating in its difficulty, but she'll get her turn."

The one that goes along with the second Sakuya pic in this set is pretty good, but yes, it is often an exercise in WTF-is-wrong-with-all-you-all looking for pics of Meiling where she's not a) being abused b) wildly off-model or c) both.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Belts and buckles are a delicate balance. Enough of them in the right places accentuates things nicely, but they are easy to overdo (somewhat like pouches in that regard, and one should never go full Liefeld.) Can't argue that, done right on the right lady, they are quite fetching though.

>Again, the high point of this one to me is the waistcoat. I can see
>Meiling strategizing about how she's going to get that third buckle at
>the same time when she's only got two hands. :)
>

Indeed, that top drew my attention to the picture, and somehow it looks like it could serve as the closure for some sort of light protective gear, something you just absolutely want to be sure will stay in place so you have redundant retention built into it.

>(I recognize that corsets in their "native" form are hideously
>unpleasant garments that serve no useful function, and I would never
>wish one on anybody. The purely decorative variety, however, I find
>quite... well, decorative. Not sure what that says about me.)
>

As far as I can tell, you're far from alone in that opinion (I know I share it) so whatever it says, it says about a lot of people.

>I've seen a bunch of artwork that associates Sakuya with playing
>cards—I think it may have something to do with the mechanics of the
>"Touhouvania" games, which this costume comes from (same source as
>Remilia's Really Fancy Outfit™). That, and her costume from those
>games has something of a "riverboat gambler" flavor to it, but that
>might just be me. :)
>

I wondered why that costume was so popular in the art, beyond the obvious fact of it looking good. Seems like those games must be all about making everyone a few steps fancier, though I can't complain about the results.

As far as gambling, I wouldn't want to try to play cards with Sakuya, her bluffs would bankrupt the table in very short order.

>That said, the Bloody Card seems like the sort of weapon that Sakuya
>would appreciate. It ticks the "spooky bloodletting at a distance"
>box on the form.
>

It would solve any ammunition issues she might have. Sakuya seems to have katana-space except it's for a ridiculous amount of knives, but unless some other magic is involves physical objects are finite eventually. An easily reusable/retrievable instrument of cutting folks at range seems like it would be a well received birthday present for her.

> (Also reminds me that we haven't seen G use one in
>ages. He used to, occasionally, having picked it up from Yuri during
>the Golden Age.)
>

Well I'm not sure how useful one would be against Neuroi, I guess it depends on whether their crystaline armor is vulnerable to slashing damage.

>The one that goes along with the second Sakuya pic in this set is
>pretty good, but yes, it is often an exercise in
>WTF-is-wrong-with-all-you-all looking for pics of Meiling where she's
>not a) being abused b) wildly off-model or c) both.
>

Right, this one, I like the outfit in general, and Meiling seemed happy, but she had a bit of 'video game hands' (or at least that's how I think of character art where the hands seem enlarged) going on.

This might also be me making it harder because I'm explicitly looking for alternative costumes, since I find I really enjoy this crew in fancier and/or different outfits. What can I say, they make good fashion models.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "This Space For Rent."

According to an illustration in one of the official manga, the huge number of knives she deploys as part of her danmaku is a result of screwing around with time—she only actually has half a dozen or so, but by repeatedly abducting them from their own timestreams and repositioning them, she can make giant swarms. The implication is that every "dagger wave" attack you see her make in "real time" takes her a long subjective time and a lot of running around to set up, as she's essential doing stop-motion animation in a time freeze.

This is, of course, ridiculous, but at the same time perfectly in keeping with the absurdist spirit of the games. :)

(It also means every single knife in a screenful of her danmaku is a flying First Law of Time violation, and if the pattern were disrupted so that any two of them collided, there's a one-in-six chance that they're the same one and the physical contact implodes the timeline. And she wanted to lecture G about the danger of looping out of the bubble. Renegade Time Agents, I ask you...)

I prefer to think ours has some sort of connection to the Para-Elemental Plane of Small Blades, which explains both where they come from and why they don't need to be cleaned up afterward. Unless you prefer the image of her out there the day after the battle, diligently policing the ruins of the west lawn for the two or three hundred knives she threw around the night before, washing them all and putting them away in a giant knife closet somewhere in the house. :)

>Well I'm not sure how useful one would be against Neuroi, I guess it
>depends on whether their crystaline armor is vulnerable to slashing
>damage.

Mio certainly thinks it is, but I was just musing about it in general, not specifically in the context of OWaW combat. I should think a BC's depth of cut would be too shallow to be of much use, even if it could technically penetrate the shell (which it should be able to, being a monomolecular vibro-edge and all).

>Right, this one, I like the
>outfit in general, and Meiling seemed happy, but she had a bit of
>'video game hands' (or at least that's how I think of character art
>where the hands seem enlarged) going on.

A bit, yeah. I mean, she does have pretty big hands, she's a big girl, but those are a little out of proportion. I think the artist was going for a perspective thing, particularly on the left one, and didn't quite hit it.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I mean, I could see her doing that if it ended up being required, but that seems needlessly cruel really. I had just suspected magicked sheaths for all the knives that produce temporary new ones as needed which fade after a short time. An innate connection is an interesting idea though, that would add even more mystery to her backstory.

>Mio certainly thinks it is, but I was just musing about it in general,
>not specifically in the context of OWaW combat. I should think a BC's
>depth of cut would be too shallow to be of much use, even if it
>could technically penetrate the shell (which it should be able
>to, being a monomolecular vibro-edge and all).
>

In my defense, where Mio is concerned just about anything is vulnerable to slashing damage, where 'vulnerable' is defined as 'Mio can make it hurt'.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "This Space For Rent."

It does, although it has a certain comedic charm. (Particularly the idea that she'd wash them all before putting them away, because of course she would. :)

>I had just suspected
>magicked sheaths for all the knives that produce temporary new ones as
>needed which fade after a short time. An innate connection is an
>interesting idea though, that would add even more mystery to her
>backstory.

Sakuya is all about the mystery, even though on a personal level she has a pretty open personality (if she knows you well enough). I enjoy the contrast in a character like that.

>In my defense, where Mio is concerned just about anything if
>vulnerable to slashing damage, where 'vulnerable' is defined as 'Mio
>can make it hurt'.

LT. COL. MIO "DUTCH" SAKAMOTO-WILCKE
If it bleeds, we can kill it. If it doesn't bleed... we probably can still kill it.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I imagined the future meeting between Gryphon and Sakuya (his second, her first), where he asks, "Where do you keep all those knives?" She explains that she's looping a half-dozen knives, and he looks at her like she's insane.

One visit to Andrew Petrarca and seventy-two hours later, she has sheaths that produce knives the way Gryphon's pistols produced bullets, and the knives teleport themselves back.

Magical sheaths that access the Plane of Metal to create throwing knives do make more sense, though.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

I have it from an old friend who makes her own period-piece costumes (including quite a lot of corsetry) that a properly designed and fitted corset is very comfortable, arguably better at breast support than a modern bra, and does not interfere with breathing or motion. The corsets that legendarily squished one's innards until one was liable to collapse from lack of oxygen after one or two ballroom dances, she says, are mostly exaggeration. To the extent they were ever real, they were the Victorian equivalent of ridiculous modern high-fashion outfits that aren't intended to be worn by anyone but a runway model.

Yeah. That is roughly what my wife says about them as she wears them for historical costuming. Excellent support if properly fitted. The caveat is the modern (and probably historic) erotic corset fetishists who do indeed build and wear very constrictive corsets ("tightlacing").

-VR
And of course, for obvious reasons, they show up in the crossdressing and trans communities.
"They copied all they could follow, but they couldn't copy my mind,
And I left 'em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind."

I object. As someone who has worked the Renfaire circuit for thirty years, and done steampunk for ten, I know (and have laced up) many women who *swear* by corsetry. It does the dual job of relieving stress on the lower back and shoulders, and transfers weight to the hips, if the corset is properly fitted.

The characterization of corsetry as torture is largely an invention of late Victorian male authors who have not a single clue among them what they're talking about.

Look, I'm just saying I've had the same information from lady historians who ought to have known what they were talking about. Perhaps they're better today, when people... you know... actually understand physiology and whatnot... than they were back in the period. I dunno.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Fan artists can never seem to decide whether Meiling's eyes should be blue, green, brown, or red (the blue-green confusion, at least, is understandable, since canonically they're aqua). This is at least only a fan artist confusion; in Sakuya's case, the canon itself can't seem to decide whether they're blue, grey, or red. (In fan art, "red" turns up as a sort of "combat mode" signal a lot of the time.)

I went with grey, because I like the contrast in the idea that such a (metaphorically) colorful character is (personally) essentially monochrome, but most artists seem to prefer blue. And, to be fair, they might be the sort that look different depending on the weather.

>Not entirely sure where she might wear such
>an outfit to but it looks like it'd be handy to have in case of
>emergency fancy.

Well, I mean, she has got a couple of weddings to attend at some point... :)

>Next the complete opposite end, comfy Meiling doing a bit of
>practice/exercise. Somehow I see her preferring this end of the
>clothing spectrum for day to day wear.

Yeah, I can see that, when she lives in a setting where that style of clothing is available. She's a pretty casual gal, our Meiling, although she shines up nicely when the situation requires it.

In-story, she's been eyeing the Liberion Army fatigues G tends to wear and thinking something like that would be good for working around the house. Her usual Earth Kingdom-style clothes are fairly practical, but the skirt bit can get awkward when, say, clambering around in the attic trying to find the last of the roof leaks. (In fact, I assume when she's doing stuff like that, she leaves that part off and just wears the pants that fan artists always omit.) Of course, his would never come close to fitting her, but the next time he hits up Supply back at Saint-Ulrich, maybe he should take along some notes. :)

>Now for something completely different,
>Meiling in a suit (battle
>damage optional.) I think this artist might have underfed her a bit,
>but she looks fierce anyway, so someone's about to have a bad day.

This outfit makes me picture her in the Jason Statham role in any of the hand-to-hand combat scenes from the Transporter movies. Which takes on an extra dimension or two when (if you've seen those films) you remember the fight in the bus garage. With the motor oil. :)

>Capping this set off, commando style Meiling, wearing the military look well (might be because she
>started with that hat of hers, but this style seems to sit 'right' on
>her) and looking like several someones are going to have a bad
>however-much-lifetime-they-have-left.

"You're a funny gal, Reimu. I'll kill you last."

(Also there's a joke here about Meiling going commando on laundry day, but I'll leave you to put it together yourselves.)

>I almost included the picture where they put Meiling in an old 3WA
>Trouble Consultant uniform for laughs, but since she's suffering a
>fairly catastrophic wardrobe malfunction in it I decided to err on the
>side of discretion.

In the original Dirty Pair TV series, Kei once pretty convincingly demonstrated that the uniform is designed to do that as a psywar tactic. Someone obviously didn't brief Meiling properly (as it were) on the correct use of the quick-release function.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Given that one of those is her own, and the other not, I would expect somewhat differing outfits for each.

>In-story, she's been eyeing the Liberion Army fatigues G tends to wear
>and thinking something like that would be good for working around the
>house. Her usual Earth Kingdom-style clothes are fairly
>practical, but the skirt bit can get awkward when, say, clambering
>around in the attic trying to find the last of the roof leaks. (In
>fact, I assume when she's doing stuff like that, she leaves that part
>off and just wears the pants that fan artists always omit.) Of
>course, his would never come close to fitting her, but the next time
>he hits up Supply back at Saint-Ulrich, maybe he should take along
>some notes. :)
>

At this rate, his next loop will be consumed by shopping for the household.

>In the original Dirty Pair TV series, Kei once pretty
>convincingly demonstrated that the uniform is designed to do
>that as a psywar tactic. Someone obviously didn't brief Meiling
>properly (as it were) on the correct use of the quick-release
>function.
>

Heh, I can believe that, but then again I can also suspect that might have been a special Lovely Angels modification based on the observed effects of an actual wardrobe malfunction. Though I thought there was some clear armor material on top of the visible fabric, or is that a UF-only adjustment?

	-={(Astynax)}=- "This Space For Rent."

Sure, I didn't mean to imply that she'd wear it for both of them. (Most likely for her own, she'll be going Western-style, since that's Sakuya's thing.)

>At this rate, his next loop will be consumed by shopping for the
>household.

Well, one does like to feel as though one is contributing. :)

>Heh, I can believe that, but then again I can also suspect that might
>have been a special Lovely Angels modification based on the observed
>effects of an actual wardrobe malfunction. Though I thought there was
>some clear armor material on top of the visible fabric, or is that a
>UF-only adjustment?

I don't really remember, after all this time, but I can say there's no evidence of any such thing in the TV scene in question. She just walks up to a sentry and wa-hey! Only shown from the back, of course, because it was a TV show, after all, but even so. Pretty blatant. Ah, the 1980s.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I can't decide whether this says "Friday night at the Cobalt Club" or "the Ming Daughters of Republic City took one look at their new customer and thought, Right, the vertical bodyline is where it's at with this one, it's cheongsam o'clock." Possibly both, in the opposite order, since clothing can usually be worn more than once! :)

>For a completely different category of activity, this outfit just
>screams ADVENTURE! Though some
>bits might not actually be that practical for the purpose.

A gentlewoman is always prepared for the possibility that she might have to explore an unknown cave system and/or commit piracy upon a Nazi airship.* Although I assume the lantern is for the benefit of others in the former, and would be best left behind in the latter, since the Germans never had access to helium.

>Lastly, someone must have showed her some classic movies, and she
>decided to make someone an
>offer they couldn't refuse. No
>one's entirely sure where she got the cat from.

"You come to me, on the day of my maid's wedding..."

--G.
* Remilia closed the window after the Sturmbannführer, then dusted off her hands and turned to see everyone in the lounge staring at her. "No ticket," she explained to the shocked passengers.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Dude. This HAS to be something that happens now. Remillia arrives in Diqui, and Utena and Korra have absolutely RESOLVED that they're doing this RIGHT, DAMMIT. And that means hitting up The Ming Daughters of Republic City, followed by a night of romance and mayhem.

(The mayhem can simply be because someone recognizes Meiling for what she is and for whatever reason goes waaaaayyyyyy over the top with it.)

>>For a completely different category of activity, this outfit just
>>screams ADVENTURE! Though some
>>bits might not actually be that practical for the purpose.
>
>A gentlewoman is always prepared for the possibility that she might
>have to explore an unknown cave system and/or commit piracy upon a
>Nazi airship.* Although I assume the lantern is for the benefit of
>others in the former, and would be best left behind in the latter,
>since the Germans never had access to helium.

Alternatively, she could be going all Richard B. Ridick when preparing to plunge into the never ending night... "I need light on my back, not in my eyes..."

>>Lastly, someone must have showed her some classic movies, and she
>>decided to make someone an
>>offer they couldn't refuse. No
>>one's entirely sure where she got the cat from.
>
>"You come to me, on the day of my maid's wedding..."

*Parla più piano INTENSIFIES!*

(Seriously, don't ever let Lucchini hear Gryphon singing that. Remilia will never get him back afterwards.)

(EDIT: On the other hand, Gryphon could come back with some phonographs from home, one of which has this version of of the song, and Flandre and Francesca both spend girl time together just swooning to it.)

Unrelated - something that got a good laugh out of me. While trying to track down an "Authentic" version of this song (ironically, it seems the lyrics were originally in English, and even then only added on after the song was made for The Godfather), one Youtube video had the following comment:

"I set this song as my alarm...

...

...

...The "Dismiss" button disappeared."

Or who she is. Imagine one of Meiling's relatives suddenly perking up.

Peter Eng
--
"She's alive?"

>Item number two is a musically inclined Flandre.

Musically inclined and apparently left-handed, which is interesting (assuming it's not just an artist error). Not many left-handed violinists out there.

>Interestingly most of the Danbooru art I've seen
>showing one or both sisters playing instruments seems to give Flan the
>violin and Remilia some other instrument, not sure why that has become
>the pattern.

Well, you know how fanon is; one artist does it, and then they're all doing it. :)

In my case, the choice of instruments they've been seen with has largely been to facilitate the way the scenes are set up (and Remilia is a multi-instrumentalist anyway, just because of how long she was at it before she gave it up). In particular, I made Flan a harpsichordist/pianist for a very specific reason that we'll see in 2/5 (which has been slower going than usual for this project because hoooly shit this past week; I hope it's not part of a general loss of momentum, but it's October, so that wouldn't be a shock :/ ).

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Those are adorable. Though Remilia's expression gives me a vague impression that she's thinking 'how did I ever let you talk me into this'.

>In my case, the choice of instruments they've been seen with has
>largely been to facilitate the way the scenes are set up (and Remilia
>is a multi-instrumentalist anyway, just because of how long she was at
>it before she gave it up). In particular, I made Flan a
>harpsichordist/pianist for a very specific reason that we'll see in
>2/5 (which has been slower going than usual for this project because
>hoooly shit this past week; I hope it's not part of a general loss of
>momentum, but it's October, so that wouldn't be a shock :/ ).
>

Having centuries to practice and fewer entertainment options than are available to modern folks was probably greatly beneficial to her musical training.

I know this isn't how it works, at all, but my immediate thought is 'huh? October is the ideal month for inspiring vampire stories.'

	-={(Astynax)}=- "My randomly occurring, tangentially relevant thoughts are neither reasonable nor sane."

She's just not used to wearing things that leave her armpits showing. She's not a shrine maiden, after all.

>Having centuries to practice and fewer entertainment options than are
>available to modern folks was probably greatly beneficial to her
>musical training.

This is true. It's also why she has such good handwriting (that, and coming from an age where it was de rigueur for people who could write at all).

>I know this isn't how it works, at all, but my immediate thought is
>'huh? October is the ideal month for inspiring vampire stories.'

It is, but unfortunately it's also the month when the seasonal affective hammer really starts coming down. (Well, and early November, now that the end of DST has been pushed to after Halloween.) There are a whole bunch of reasons why I'd rather live at a more southerly latitude, but unfortunately they don't outweigh the reasons why I don't live at one.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Not sure why, this just makes me think of the line from Blazing Saddles, "baby please, I am not from Havana!"

	-={(Astynax)}=- "It may be that too much pop culture can damage a psyche."