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Subject: "The Defiant" Archived thread - Read only
 
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McFortner
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Nov-19-01, 10:02 PM (EDT)
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"The Defiant"
 
   Well, now that we know what you think about the Galaxy Class starships (heh, flogged indeed) what about the Defiant Class from DS9? Will they be making an appearance in the next SOS arc?

I see them as a Starfleet design for an Iowa Class killer. They are about the size of the saucer section of a Constitution Class (my best guess) but pack nearly the firepower of a Galaxy Class starship. And they appear to be extremely maneuverable. Heck, I could see a wolf-pack of them trying to kill the Challenger.

Your thoughts, Gryphon?

Michael

The Lovely Angels: When it absolutely, positively has to be destroyed overnight!

Michael C. Fortner
"Maxim 37: There is no such thing as "overkill".
There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload".


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: The Defiant Gryphonadmin Nov-19-01 1
     RE: The Defiant McFortner Nov-19-01 2
         RE: The Defiant Nathan Nov-19-01 4
             RE: The Defiant Laudre Nov-19-01 5
                 RE: The Defiant Gryphonadmin Nov-19-01 6
                     RE: The Defiant Laudre Nov-20-01 12
                         RE: The Defiant Gryphonadmin Nov-20-01 13
                 RE: The Defiant Griever Nov-20-01 15
                     RE: The Defiant remandeteam Nov-20-01 16
                         RE: The Defiant Polychrome Nov-20-01 17
                             RE: The Defiant Gryphonadmin Nov-20-01 18
                                 RE: The Defiant Laudre Nov-21-01 19
                                     RE: The Defiant Matrix Dragon Nov-21-01 20
                                         RE: The Defiant Laudre Nov-21-01 21
                                             RE: The Defiant Strife Nov-21-01 22
                                         RE: The Defiant drakensisthered Nov-21-01 23
             RE: The Defiant Gryphonadmin Nov-19-01 7
                 RE: The Defiant Nathan Nov-20-01 8
                     RE: The Defiant Gryphonadmin Nov-20-01 11
     RE: The Defiant Blob Nov-20-01 14
  RE: The Defiant Laudre Nov-19-01 3
  RE: The Defiant Redneck Nov-20-01 9
     RE: The Defiant Gryphonadmin Nov-20-01 10

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Gryphonadmin
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Nov-19-01, 10:34 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #0
 
   >I see them as a Starfleet design for an Iowa Class killer.

They've tried that once already.

>Your thoughts, Gryphon?

The Defiant class's design philosophy is totally at odds with that of Earthforce and, by extension, the modern Starfleet. Their desire is for ever larger and grander ships, the better to project the image of Earth's power and prestige into the galaxy at large - to impress and intimidate people. That means battlewagons, big beasts like the Earthforce Nova class and the Starfleet Galaxy class. Size and visible power are at the heart of any approved Earth or Fed design nowadays - not speed and maneuverability.

So, basically, my thoughts are that your scenario is not very likely.

--G.
-><-
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Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

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McFortner
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Nov-19-01, 10:41 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #1
 
   >So, basically, my thoughts are that your scenario is not very likely.

Drat. I had this really cool scene running around my mind of a pack of Defiant class ships cloaked stalking the Challenger like the German U-Boats stalking the convoys of World War II.

Oh, well, I thought it was a cool idea....

Michael

The Lovely Angels: When it absolutely, positively has to be destroyed overnight!

Michael C. Fortner
"Maxim 37: There is no such thing as "overkill".
There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload".


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Nathan
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Nov-19-01, 11:15 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #2
 
   >>So, basically, my thoughts are that your scenario is not very likely.
>
>Drat. I had this really cool scene running around my mind of a pack
>of Defiant class ships cloaked stalking the Challenger
>like the German U-Boats stalking the convoys of World War II.
>
>Oh, well, I thought it was a cool idea....

Ditto. And, hey, maybe it could happen... If you were to assume that it was the WDF building the things... They seem more the WDFs style- Built as well as they possibly can be and designed to bank at least most of the marbles on a single weapon/strategy.

What I'd like to see, though, are... Well, in the source material they're called the Yamato class. In SFB/SFC, they're the Federation's standard battleship class.

Screenshots (From ST: Klingon Academy, which used the -exact- -same- technical designs- the SFC models are kinda low res) below.

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,137913-15,00.html

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,137913-14,00.html

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,137913-10,00.html

I think that the camera angles are kinda unflattering, but, there you are. Alas, the WDF doesn't need them and their design motif clashes with Starfleet/Earthforce, so I can't see where they'd fit.

Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


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Laudre
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Nov-19-01, 11:22 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #4
 
   >I think that the camera angles are kinda unflattering, but, there you
>are. Alas, the WDF doesn't need them and their design motif clashes
>with Starfleet/Earthforce, so I can't see where they'd fit.

As a fan of the Defiant design (though I wish it had a more distinctive look, where you could look at it from a distance and say, with only a glance, "that's a Defiant-class ship), I'd like to see them in UF.

It occurs to me that the IPO has a rather small fleet, and lacks the personnel to crew large numbers of Sovereign-class ships.

However, a Defiant-class ship in the hands of a capable captain could easily take out a Galaxy-class warship; a Prometheus-class ship, in the hands of someone as competent as UF-Gryphon, would be downright terrifying.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
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Gryphonadmin
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Nov-19-01, 11:40 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #5
 
   >It occurs to me that the IPO has a rather small fleet, and lacks the
>personnel to crew large numbers of Sovereign-class ships.

You are perceptive, young one. :)

(Hell, the IPO-SF currently lacks the personnel to crew small numbers of Sovereign-class ships. :)

Here's another indicator: Take a look at the Defiant. Notice the saucer-with-embellishments design scheme, and the specifications - 50% engines, 50% weapons, 100% nasty attitude. Those factors aren't very Trek-like, really - they clash significantly with Roddenberry's Shiny Happy Universe theory - but perhaps they remind you of a particular school of shipbuilding?

I know they do for me. The first time I saw the Defiant I thought, "Huh. When did Starfleet contract with the Corellian Engineering Corporation for their new destroyers?"

They don't fit in with UF-Starfleet's design philosophy at all, but that doesn't mean they don't fit anywhere in the universe...

>a
>Prometheus-class ship, in the hands of someone as competent as
>UF-Gryphon, would be downright terrifying.

Not to mention nauseating. Ugh! The TNG-era starship designers really didn't do the world many favors. Defiant and Sovereign, and that's about it.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Laudre
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Nov-20-01, 01:35 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #6
 
   >I know they do for me. The first time I saw the Defiant I
>thought, "Huh. When did Starfleet contract with the Corellian
>Engineering Corporation for their new destroyers?"

Yeah, I noticed the similarity, eventually. Enough that, after reading the writeup of the Defiant class in the DS9 Technical Manual, I decided to add some Defiant embellishments to a YT-1300 and see what came out. (Those who have read my first Stormcrow story have seen the result.)

>Not to mention nauseating. Ugh! The TNG-era starship
>designers really didn't do the world many favors. Defiant and
>Sovereign, and that's about it.

I never hated the Galaxy class, but neither did it ever do anything special for me like the Constitution class (my, that's a classy design), the Defiant (something about sheer brutality), the Sovereign (my first thought when I saw that thing: "DAMN!"; I later realized that it was because it combined everything I liked about the Defiant and the Constitution), and, to a lesser degree the Excelsior (though it's too chunky to have the grace of a Constitution or a Sovereign).

The remainder of the TNG-era ships... none of them appeal to me as a whole. I like certain things about some of them; the capabilities ("multi-vector assault mode") of the Prometheus, even though it looks like someone picked up an Intrepid and tried to make it look as intimidating as a Defiant and failed miserably, which is annoying, because it should have looked cool. The Intrepid class is another example, for that matter, of a design that should have been cool -- small, agile, that sort of thing -- but failed miserably. (The warp nacelles that fold upward are an idea that sounds like it might be cool, but looks rather silly in execution.) The Akira class looks rather nifty from some angles; at other times, it just looks dumb. (Though looking at it now brings the NX-01 to mind, which makes me like it a bit more.) I mostly like the Danube-class runabouts, though I wish they looked a bit more elegant and less blocky. Most other TNG-era ships are basically the designers throwing stuff together, and they look like it, unfortunately.

As for non-Starfleet ships... well, I particularly like the B'Rel-class ships, and other Klingon ships along those lines; the D7, it depends. Sometimes I look at it and rather like it; other times I look at it and it just feels indifferent to me. The Negh'Var class appeals to me on a sheer brute strength level, but lacks the grace of the B'Rel-type designs. The classic Romulan Warbird design I like, though I wish it had just a bit more grace to it; the D'Deridex class, I can take or leave. It's something that tries to achieve the same kind of brutal power as a Negh'Var or Vor'Cha, with a bit more grace, but doesn't quite pull it off (or anything else, for that matter, other than making me wonder what purpose that huge gap in the middle of the ship serves). I think the goal on that one was to update the original Warbird/Bird of Prey design, but fails miserably.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
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Gryphonadmin
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Nov-20-01, 01:43 AM (EDT)
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13. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #12
 
   >to a lesser degree the Excelsior
>(though it's too chunky to have the grace of a Constitution or
>a Sovereign).

Original Excelsior, yes. Enterprise-B variant type, no. (Apparently Starfleet thought so too, since all the many, many Excelsior-class ships that turn up in the TNG era look like the original... )

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Griever
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Nov-20-01, 10:28 AM (EDT)
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15. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #5
 
   >As a fan of the Defiant design (though I wish it had a more
>distinctive look, where you could look at it from a distance and say,
>with only a glance, "that's a Defiant-class ship), I'd like to
>see them in UF.
>

Hmm , it just occured to me that the Defiant class wouldn't be
perfect for the Black Ops section that the WDF doesn't have .

And it is a wickedly cool design , about the only Federation ship
in ST that I think looks really nasty . Gotta luv it .


-Griever
"No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be; Am an attendant lord, one that will do To swell a progress, start a scene or two, Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool, Deferential, glad to be of use, Politic, cautious, and meticulous; Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse; At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- Almost, at times, the Fool."



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remandeteam
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Nov-20-01, 12:13 PM (EDT)
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16. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #15
 
  
>Hmm , it just occured to me that the Defiant class wouldn't be
>perfect for the Black Ops section that the WDF doesn't have .

Eh?

Last I checked, Black Ops meant two things: get out before the enemy knows what hit you and plausible deniability. If you build an obviously military vessel, unless it's almost perfectly cloaked, you will have neither.

For my money, what you want for Black Ops would be something civilian looking. Maybe a souped-up freighter...

--rR

(ReRob's First Law of Espionage: Real spies drive Hondas and Fords, not MGs and Ferraris)

--rR


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Polychrome
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Nov-20-01, 07:19 PM (EDT)
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17. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #16
 
   >
>>Hmm , it just occured to me that the Defiant class wouldn't be
>>perfect for the Black Ops section that the WDF doesn't have .
>
>Eh?
>
>Last I checked, Black Ops meant two things: get out before the enemy
>knows what hit you and plausible deniability. If you build an
>obviously military vessel, unless it's almost perfectly cloaked, you
>will have neither.
>

IIRC the Defiant has a cloaking device, or at least it did.

Polychrome


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Gryphonadmin
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Nov-20-01, 07:22 PM (EDT)
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18. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #17
 
   >IIRC the Defiant has a cloaking device, or at least it did.

It's not a characteristic of the class, though; Defiant herself is the only one that has one. Part of that ongoing systems-testbed role, you know.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Laudre
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Nov-21-01, 00:16 AM (EDT)
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19. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #18
 
   >>IIRC the Defiant has a cloaking device, or at least it did.
>
>It's not a characteristic of the class, though; Defiant herself
>is the only one that has one. Part of that ongoing systems-testbed
>role, you know.

Actually, the Defiant's a loan item from the Romulan Star Empire. Part of the treaty that brought them into the Dominion War on the side of the Federation-Klingon alliance. I do believe that the terms of the previous treaty between the Romulan Star Empire and the UFP forbade Starfleet from developing their own cloaking device; since the Defiant is using a Romulan cloaking device, Starfleet hasn't developed their own cloaking device, in the same way that the WDF has no black ops.

(Think about the episode of TNG wherein that particular clause of the treaty was discussed. Of course Starfleet doesn't have their own cloaking device. Ahem.)

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Matrix Dragon
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Nov-21-01, 00:28 AM (EDT)
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20. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #19
 
   >>>IIRC the Defiant has a cloaking device, or at least it did.
>>
>>It's not a characteristic of the class, though; Defiant herself
>>is the only one that has one. Part of that ongoing systems-testbed
>>role, you know.
>
>Actually, the Defiant's a loan item from the Romulan Star
>Empire. Part of the treaty that brought them into the Dominion War on
>the side of the Federation-Klingon alliance. I do believe that the
>terms of the previous treaty between the Romulan Star Empire and the
>UFP forbade Starfleet from developing their own cloaking device; since
>the Defiant is using a Romulan cloaking device, Starfleet
>hasn't developed their own cloaking device, in the same way that the
>WDF has no black ops.
>
>(Think about the episode of TNG wherein that particular clause
>of the treaty was discussed. Of course Starfleet doesn't have their
>own cloaking device. Ahem.)
>

You mean there's actually a reason the Defiant is the only Starfleet ship with a cloaking device? That explains a bit. I've always wondered why it is that everyone else in the Star Trek universe has the ability to appear out of nowhere and surprise the crap out of their victims. I figured it was just an annoying plothole.

Matrix Dragon
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." --J.R.R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for obvious reasons." -Matrix Dragon

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Laudre
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Nov-21-01, 00:46 AM (EDT)
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21. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #20
 
   >You mean there's actually a reason the Defiant is the only Starfleet
>ship with a cloaking device?

Yes. Ira Steven Behr seems to be the only person involved with Trek since Roddenberry's death who actually pays attention to continuity. (Brannon Braga sure doesn't... hell, Brannon Braga doesn't seem to pay attention to anything, up to and including everyone saying how shitty a writer he is... and Rick Berman only uses continuity when it suits him.)

>That explains a bit. I've always wondered
>why it is that everyone else in the Star Trek universe has the
>ability to appear out of nowhere and surprise the crap out of their
>victims. I figured it was just an annoying plothole.

Canonically, Klingons have cloaking devices. Romulans have cloaking devices. Whether this is due to them independently developing the technology, or through trade, nobody's saying, but I'd guess that the Klingons bought it from the Romulans, personally (it's not the type of technology Klingons would develop on their own, I would think). But other than the Klingons and the Romulans, the only major power that has any cloakships is Starfleet, who have a single cloaking ship in the Defiant, who got it from the Romulans.

This is, in fact, the second Romulan cloaking device that the Federation has had, though the first one was stolen from a Romulan vessel by Kirk and Spock of the original Enterprise; this one they possess legitimately, although they'd presumably have to give it back if the Romulans asked.

As for non-cloakships' ability to apparently come out of nowhere, that happens by way of "tactics" and/or "lazy writing."

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Strife
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Nov-21-01, 00:59 AM (EDT)
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22. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #21
 
   >Canonically, Klingons have cloaking devices. Romulans have cloaking
>devices. Whether this is due to them independently developing the
>technology, or through trade, nobody's saying, but I'd guess that the
>Klingons bought it from the Romulans, personally (it's not the type of
>technology Klingons would develop on their own, I would think). But
>other than the Klingons and the Romulans, the only major power that
>has any cloakships is Starfleet, who have a single cloaking ship in
>the Defiant, who got it from the Romulans.

This is what I know of the cloaking device thing. The Romulans orginally developed the cloaking device and traded it to the Klingons for the, I believe D7 cruisers, because the Romulans were in need of 'cheap' warships. And Starfleet, which did construct the Defiant, was able to swing a loaned cloaking device from the Romulans but are required to have a Romulan representitive stationed on the Defiant whenever she left dock.

Now, I could be wrong in some (or all) of these facts so take this with a grain of salt.

~Strife Aileron

Land charred Black, rivers boiled,
Crops and wells alike despoiled,
Mountains levelled, forests felled,
-footprints of the beasts of Keld


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drakensisthered
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Nov-21-01, 04:14 AM (EDT)
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23. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #20
 
   >You mean there's actually a reason the Defiant is the only Starfleet
>ship with a cloaking device? That explains a bit. I've always wondered
>why it is that everyone else in the Star Trek universe has the
>ability to appear out of nowhere and surprise the crap out of their
>victims. I figured it was just an annoying plothole.

There are dozens of cloaking devices - they have to be improved fairly often once the opposition figures out a way to cirumvent them. Spock said that the advantages of employing one were fairly transitory when they were first introduced back in TOS.


drakensisthered

SHE'S the 'Pirate Killer,' 'Klingon Spooker,' 'Big Trouble in a Little Package,' 'She Who Must be Avoided,' and 'Go Around the Other Side of the Nebula.' I'm the dumb blonde comic relief.


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Gryphonadmin
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Nov-19-01, 11:46 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #4
 
   >What I'd like to see, though, are... Well, in the source material
>they're called the Yamato class. In SFB/SFC, they're the Federation's
>standard battleship class.
>
>Screenshots (From ST: Klingon Academy, which used the -exact- -same-
>technical designs- the SFC models are kinda low res) below.

Ah, yes. I've been playing Klingon Academy lately, and have tried out the Yamato class (and its companion FBB, the Missouri class) in the simulator mode.

Mooooooooooo.

I'm quite fond of KA's Klingon and Romulan ships, though; they're nifty extrapolations of what Klingon and Rom warships heavier than the D-7 might have looked like back in the good old days, when starships weren't lame-looking. (They certainly beat that horrific green monstrosity the Romulans always get stuck with in TNG... )


For that matter, although they handle lousily, the Fed battleships fit nicely into the visual spectrum of Starfleet in that era, too, and some of the smaller extrapolated Fed ships (like the Okinawa-class frigate) I'm quite fond of. (I especially like the fact that they included a TOS version of the Akula-class destroyer. It was a nice touch that they must have included just because they thought it would be fun. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Nathan
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Nov-20-01, 00:14 AM (EDT)
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8. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #7
 
   >>What I'd like to see, though, are... Well, in the source material
>>they're called the Yamato class. In SFB/SFC, they're the Federation's
>>standard battleship class.
>>
>>Screenshots (From ST: Klingon Academy, which used the -exact- -same-
>>technical designs- the SFC models are kinda low res) below.
>
>Ah, yes. I've been playing Klingon Academy lately, and have
>tried out the Yamato class (and its companion FBB, the
>Missouri class) in the simulator mode.

Yahoo! I gave up on that game eventually, as it happens... Sheer frustration, really. I wanted to kill things! None of the weapons there were really very satisfying... More's the pity. It was fun except for that.

>Mooooooooooo.

*laff* Yeah. Still, there's a corrolary to that, though the way KA is put together makes it kinda hard to see: Push the button --> Target go *boom*

For enough firepower to make anything short of a CA vanish in a single pass, I'll forgive a great deal.

>I'm quite fond of KA's Klingon and Romulan ships, though;
>they're nifty extrapolations of what Klingon and Rom warships heavier
>than the D-7 might have looked like back in the good old days, when
>starships weren't lame-looking. (They certainly beat that horrific
>green monstrosity the Romulans always get stuck with in TNG...
>)

Yech. Which was a real pity, because, IMHO, the Rom BOP was the coolest piece of design in the entire show... Followed closely by the D6/7.

>For that matter, although they handle lousily, the Fed battleships fit
>nicely into the visual spectrum of Starfleet in that era, too, and
>some of the smaller extrapolated Fed ships (like the
>Okinawa-class frigate) I'm quite fond of. (I especially like
>the fact that they included a TOS version of the Akula-class
>destroyer. It was a nice touch that they must have included just
>because they thought it would be fun. :)

Hmmmm...

Actually. It's been a while since I last played, but I don't remember any of the other superheavies being any better. The BBs are -supposed- to handle like bathtubs, no matter what race they're owned by.

So. Are we going to be seeing Assault Phasers, or is that niche already covered?

Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter
(Okay, the Galaxy look kinda stupid. But the Ambassadors are even worse! The Galaxy at least has the streamlining going for it.)

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


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Gryphonadmin
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22375 posts
Nov-20-01, 00:37 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #8
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-01 AT 00:39 AM (EST)

>(Okay, the Galaxy look kinda stupid. But the Ambassadors are even
>worse! The Galaxy at least has the streamlining going for it.)

Now, see, I have exactly the opposite opinion. The Ambassador class (or, as the WDF called them, Iowa class), to me, is an updated starship done right - it has some futuristic elements, like the TNG-style warp engines, and yet still acknowledges its roots (note the Excelsior-style saucer pylon).

I'm quite fond of the Ambo; to my eye, it does everything right that the Galaxy class did wrong in trying to be an "updated" Constitution. The shuttlebay's in the right place. The navigational deflector doesn't look like God's eyeball with a case of pinkeye. The warp engines aren't hilariously undersized. The saucer section isn't monstrously bloated, turned 90 degrees off axis, and generally shaped as though it had been excreted by a gigantic ungulate.

Aside from that ship, the only TNG-era new designs I can think of that I don't find, at best, unappealing, are the Defiant class, the Sovereign class (which does right everything the Intrepid class got wrong - bleagh) and the era's shuttlecraft, Danube-class runabouts included. The others range from utterly indifferent (Klingon Vor'cha class), to comically lame (Galaxy), to irritatingly bad (Intrepid - speaking of suffering from laughably-puny-engine syndrome), to outright vomitous (Nebula).

Oh - I take part of that back; I think I like the Steamrunner class, but I haven't actually seen enough good shots of it to know for sure. I might go try and play Dominion Wars again just to get another look, but then again, I might not - I didn't find that game very playable. The Steamrunner's certainly got a nice name, though, I'll give it that.

Also, please note that, while it was designed by the TNG crew, I don't count the Constellation class, as it's made of movie-era Constitution parts. All the TNG guys did was take Jefferies and Minor's bits and jam them together in a new shape, and I must admit they didn't do such a bad job, at that. The Connie's an OK-looking little ship. (Light cruiser? Destroyer? Hmm... )

--G.
-><-
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-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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Blob
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Nov-20-01, 09:54 AM (EDT)
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14. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #1
 
   >Their desire is for ever larger and grander ships, the better to project the
>image of Earth's power and prestige into the galaxy at large - to
>impress and intimidate people. That means battlewagons, big beasts
>like the Earthforce Nova class and the Starfleet Galaxy
>class. Size and visible power are at the heart of any approved Earth
>or Fed design nowadays - not speed and maneuverability.

Big Ships? Like the USS Highlander? We get to see captain Norad?... *head explodes*

----------------
"And what _are_ we dealing with? Little green men!?"
"No. Little green blobs in bonded polycarbite-armor!"


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Laudre
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Nov-19-01, 10:47 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #0
 
   >I see them as a Starfleet design for an Iowa Class killer.

I don't. The existence of the Galaxy class as an Iowa class killer shows that Starfleet, and Earthforce, aren't thinking along those lines.

In the Trekiverse, the Defiant class, and other warship designs (Akira, Prometheus) were designed first as Borg-killers, and then, later, Dominion-killers. They're fast, tough, and heavily armed (in the Trekiverse, the USS Defiant is probably more effectively armed than a Galaxy class starship, due to the Defiant's function as a weapons testbed, giving it far more modern, and more frequently updated, weapons than the Galaxy or Nebula class), and small to provide a smaller target, and lower cost to manufacture than a big ship. They're the closest the Trekiverse comes to starfighters; since starfighters exist in UF, and serve an important role (see Red's post elsewhere), I don't see Earthforce or Starfleet developing ships that size. There's just no need for them, in their eyes.

-- Sean --

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Redneck
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Nov-20-01, 00:20 AM (EDT)
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9. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #0
 
   >Well, now that we know what you think about the Galaxy Class starships
>(heh, flogged indeed) what about the Defiant Class from DS9? Will
>they be making an appearance in the next SOS arc?

As mentioned in passing in the May Azland /THEN arc of Wilderness, a small class of starships named the 'Defiant' class was produced by the WDF in the 2280s. A handful of these ships escaped destruction during Gotterdamerung and defected intact to the CFMF, which after trials relegated them to Home Fleet defense. The small ships were, in the long term, a failure; the warp power plants of the day could not produce the high sublight acceleration and high weapons yield the ships were designed for simultaneously, and they were notoriously prone to breakdowns. However, due to the nature of the times, they did see battle on multiple occasions defending the Home Fleet's retreat from combat zones. The last of this class of ship was decommissioned in 2348, and the CFMF applied the lessons of the class to its ongoing refits of its own vessels.

As for a fast shipkiller, the CFMF is beginning as of 2405 to phase out the Super Myrmidon (Y-Wing) from its carrier bomber wings in favor of the Crusader...

Redneck

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Gryphonadmin
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22375 posts
Nov-20-01, 00:26 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: The Defiant"
In response to message #9
 
   >>Well, now that we know what you think about the Galaxy Class starships
>>(heh, flogged indeed) what about the Defiant Class from DS9? Will
>>they be making an appearance in the next SOS arc?
>
>As mentioned in passing in the May Azland /THEN arc of Wilderness, a
>small class of starships named the 'Defiant' class was produced by the
>WDF in the 2280s.

It should be noted that these ships did not look like the Defiant class seen in Deep Space Nine, any more than they performed like them. If you have the DS9 Technical Manual, see the thing on the top half of page 122?

It was an idea whose time had not yet come.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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