Ok true Shinji changing his mind seems possible but i mean the point at which he chose to leave in your story leaves him without a reason to change it there's no guilt or pressure on his shoulders. In the series he became connected to the others and that is what brought him back. If he had the strength of character to defy his father and leave before the fighting began he clearly wouldn't see his father as a reason to return so what or who could have meant enough to bring him back? (I speak from the experience of BEING Shinji at one point in my life)

Also, remember that SEELE hunted him down, not the other way around.

So, once Shinji as some half-way decent experiences piloting an Evangelion, it only becomes natural that he readily takes that particular weapon into hand when he gets fed up and decides to do something about the situation.

Black Aeronaut Technologies Creative aerospace solutions for the discerning spacer "To the commissary we should go," Yoda declared firmly. "News of this kind a danish requires."

Early in any story, there are bound to be things that are confusing, simply because they won't be explained until later in the story. It often pays to have a little faith, hang in there, and see what develops.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

In other words, Mr. Lantz, your complaint is one form of "YOU'RE NOT GIVING IT TO ME FAST ENOUGH!"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8841340504849794258 should shed some light on why this behavior is mildly frowned-upon in these parts.

Ard Sumhenner
that Janice chick
Usual Suspect and general menace

Ouch! i know that it's true that you shouldn't give away everything in a story up front but honestly in Eva there are a few constants that are observed and when those constants are removed or changed without reason it leaves the reader with out drive to find out in most cases.

The two biggest ones being Shinji and Tokyo 3. While i don't hate on strong ACC's (Or in this case DJ himself like most of my peers seem to) i would have had an impossible time attempting to read this work without the clarification given to me in this thread.

And i'm certainly NOT anything that video implied!

My suggestion is that you should try reading it all the way through, making a list of questions for yourself and answering them as you go along. If you get to the end of Apotheosis Now and still have unanswered questions, then go ahead and post them. Same thing with comments and criticism about the stories, as long as they stand on their own. It's one thing to compare and contrast 2 unique creative works that are similar, or to say "I liked X better than Y", it's another (unreasonable, IMHO) to say "you messed up" or "that's not right" because the authors decided to change things.

The above is my own opinion alone, but I have a feeling that I'm not the only one who feels this way...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>

>My suggestion is that you should try reading it all the way through,
>making a list of questions for yourself and answering them as
>you go along. If you get to the end of Apotheosis Now and
>still have unanswered questions, then go ahead and post them. Same
>thing with comments and criticism about the stories, as long as they
>stand on their own. It's one thing to compare and contrast 2 unique
>creative works that are similar, or to say "I liked X better than Y",
>it's another (unreasonable, IMHO) to say "you messed up" or "that's
>not right" because the authors decided to change things.
>
>The above is my own opinion alone, but I have a feeling that I'm not
>the only one who feels this way...
>
>Offsides
>
><...> in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
> -- David Ben Gurion
>EPU RCW #π
>#include <stdsig.h>

A setting is a setting. Changing that setting raises questions for most readers, Mine have been answered and i wouldn't have asked them if i didn't intend to read the work. I'm not saying that it's wrong or anything just murky for someone who watched the show. Shinji's absence almost killed the idea for me. (not to mention giving DJ the biggest "Gary-stu" award) I won't count DJ as a bad character as my peers in the fiction community do just yet. Although i have to say it saddens me a bit to see that the other side of the fence is just as intolerant of the work in question

Eh, I dunno. I figure one very large hole in the ground with retractable buildings over top of it is much the same as another, when you get right down to it. But don't go by me, I suppose.

>I won't count DJ as a bad character as my peers in
>the fiction community do just yet.

I wonder, abstractly, whether you know what a snot your phrasing here makes you sound like. In my experience, members of "the fiction community" generally do. In fact, they're usually banking on it.

(shrug) I'm glad I could clear up your questions, and I hope that now that they're cleared up, you'll enjoy the show, as it were. If you don't, though, it's not going to break my heart. I've been doing this a long time; I have plenty of experience with the notion that you can't please everyone.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

I'm not intolerant of NGE or Hideaki Anno in the least.

I am intolerant of pretentious speechifying from Digimon fanboys. :)

...Actually, no, wait. I was gonna just leave that there?

But you friggin' wrote an Evangelion-Digimon crossover and *you have a problem with us that's led to a thread of this length?*

Good sir, get out. Please. Do yourself a favor.

Ard Sumhenner
that Janice chick
Usual Suspect and general menace

This? This isn't a shitstorm. This is just those of us who've been here all along going, "Oh, Christ, another of these."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

I find it interesting that you know the source material better than I do, and you're having a harder time with Neon Exodus Evangelion than I did.

Peter Eng
--
I'm only a Charter Member because of the DCForum upgrade, and because there's no rank below "Clueless F!wit."

Actually, that doesn't seem awfully surprising to me. The more aquanited people are with their source material, the more confused or prickly they get about it (and the changes in it) when it comes to fanfiction. Evangelion, especially, seems to have one of those incredibly picky fandoms, too.

Worse than that, the average "but you don't have the AAAANGST" NXE "critic" isn't saying anything particularly novel.

You'd think they'd at least come up with something new after a decade.

Ard Sumhenner
that Janice chick
Usual Suspect and general menace

A full decade would require some of them to be students of the classics, depending on age bracket...

Ard Sumhenner
that Janice chick
Usual Suspect and general menace

Holy crap! You're not dead!

--
-Pasha
"I invented Warp Drive, whatta ya got?"
"I'm the Norse God of Mecha."
"Well, I guess you win then."

My goddess, but those are some annoying bastiches. It appears that they have what Heinlein calls the "critics' problem". They can't read.

What ever happend to just enjoying a damn good story?

I'll have no qualms if the folks in charge want to move this into it's own thread.  It is pretty long, the
commentary pretty snarky, and this thread is getting a tad ridiculous anyways.

Andrew Huang's Review
   I find NXE to be a balance between great writing quality and one
   terribly irritating character.

   Allow me to elaborate. Eyrie Productions has been long known for
   producing, as they say on their webpage, "quality anime fanfiction"
   (or words to that effect). Ben Hutchins knows how to write well, and
   he doesn't lose it for NXE. Well, almost. There's one big flaw: DJ
   Croft. Too cool beyond words.

   I think Zhou took care of all the DJ
   bashing, so I'll not add to it, since I agree with most everything he
   said. There are then also other, less severe (but still annoying)
   character flaws, in his handling of Asuka, Kaji, and Ritsuko.

   As this
   is a transplant of EVA, I can accept there being different characters
   (or lack of characters, such as the school friends of Shinji from the
   original), but if they have the same name and background, I'm assuming
   that they're the same characters. The three that I named are made out
   to be a lot more irritating/mean-tempered/downright evil than they
   really should be considered. Asuka, in particular, seems to be
   spouting off even more tha usual.

   I do hope that Gryphon does give her
   a break, considering her past. Oh, and last thing I didn't like,
   characterwise: he left out Shinji! I like Shinji.

   The upside: again, the writing quality. It's clear and concise;
   feelings and events are conveyed excellently. The other new character,
   Jon Ellison, is a much more tolerable addition to the field. He has
   his weaknesses and is endearingly vulnerable.

   And--I may be a soppy
   fool, but I rather like the budding romance between Rei and Jon. In
   all of the original EVA, I found the lack of real romance beyond
   Hikari and Touji to be rather depressing.

   I hear that DJ's problems, whatever they may be, will finally get to
   him soon. I really do hope so--I'd like to see him get his share.
   Anyway, I'm still following this series, even though (for the time
   being) the bad still outweighs the good, for me.

Rod M.'s Review
   Oh, where to begin, where to begin?
   The lads down at Eyrie Productions are good. Let's make no mistake
   about that. They're very good. The stories they put out always has a
   professional polish that puts their talent up amongst the best.
   Neon Exodus Evangelion is no exception. The pacing, the plot, the
   polish, it's all there. The one thing you can't call an Eyrie work of
   fiction is stale, and this is no exception.

   They have one flaw.
   In every story Eyrie writes, they must have a new character. Said new
   character must be 1) central to the story and 2) just one hip
   happening dude.

   D.J. Croft is, for this story, that flaw. He's a crack shooter with
   gymnastic and martial arts capabilities. He woos the women
   oh-so-easily, down from Rei up to Misato and all the women in between.
   He's one hell of a motorcycle ride. He can out-booze Misato too. Even
   the NAME is too cool. 'D.J.' Riiiight.

   Did I mention that D.J. is only 14 years old?

   If they replaced the character of Kaji with D.J., I'd be more apt to
   accept it. Hey, there's a precedent for _grown men_ with all of D.J.'s
   capabilities. He's called James Bond.

   There's minor nitpicks as well. The writer clearly doesn't like Asuka
   or Gendou, and writes them in a particularly harsh manner above and
   beyond the original bitch/bastardness that they originally had.

   But you know what? If you ignore D.J. (quite a feat, considering the
   role he plays), there's actually a fairly entertaining read here.

   Lots of mysteries abound, really. What happened to Shinji? What link
   does Jon and Rei have? Since the original EVA 01 in the anime was
   build especially for Shinji (what, with it housing a certain someone's
   soul in it and such), how effective can EVA 01 be with a non-Shinji?
   Is the human completion project still underway? With Shinji gone, is
   Karou gonna bring out the bisexual tendencies of D.J.? Or is Jon this
   world's equivalent to Karou? Lots of questions that I'd like to see
   the answer to, really.

   Thumbs up? Not quite. Thumbs down? Not quite, either.
   I did say these guys do good plot and polish, didn't I? If you enjoy
   self-insertion stories or stories with amazing new characters, this
   one'll be incredibly enjoyable to you. If you detest them, then this
   might not do. If you make the effort to either learn to appreciate
   D.J. Croft or ignore him, you'll find that this story actually is
   entertaining so far. If you can't take it anymore after reading the
   first part of act 1, might as well stop. If you're still reading, then
   keep on reading.

Tom Rothamel's Review
   Can you consider a fic an Evangelion fic if the authors have decided
   to simply write out Shinji?

   This question is perhaps symbolic of the biggest issue I have with the
   fic, that the authors have no problem completely rewriting the
   Evangelion universe, simply because it suits their tastes/egos.

   Now, that's certainly their perogative. But, there's nothing saying I
   have to like it. It's just dissapointing to see what will probably
   stand for quite a while as the longest Evangelion fanfic missing many
   of the things that make Eva a great show. (Aparrently so that original
   or semi-original characters can have the run of the place.)

   On the more or less neutral side, NXE makes use of quite a bit of
   "geek cultural references", to science fiction, games, etc. While in
   some places these serve a purpose, in other places it only distracts
   from the plot.

   That being said, I don't consider NXE to be a truly bad fic. The
   writing has quality. The type of people that liked "Undocumented
   Features" will probably also like this. (That last sentince is
   probably the crux of this review.) If you're looking for a casual
   read, this may be for you, despite the feeling that it contains inside
   jokes that you're just not a party to.

   However, if you're looking for a story that's about Evangelion, this
   isn't it.
   (Pure Nitpick: The series has the Second Impact taking place September
   13, 2000, while NXE has it as April 1, 2000.)

Zhou Tai An's Review
   Evangelion without Evangelion. My first impression. Any story that has
   NERV set in Worchester, Maine, has no angst (as of yet) and features
   Rei on a motorcycle is not really, truly, EVA.

   That is but a minor consideration, however. As we progress further
   through the fic, a dark specter begins to loom over out heads,
   obscuring our view, blotting the characters from vision. Too late we
   discover that it is one of the most horrible, foul and altogether
   boring figures to enter a fanfic - the Overpowerful Character, in this
   case, one DJ Croft, otherwise known as perfectness incarnate.

   Watch out, readers. Gryphon really should have read Taleswapper's
   essay on introducing new characters into fics.

   DJ is everything one of
   them should not be. He absolutely steals the show, and runs rampant
   over the whole story, astounding NERV staff (and reviewers) with his
   incredible exploits, which include such events as getting into jungle
   ruins at the tender age of 6, blackmailing Maya Ibuki into designing
   custom weapons, beating almost every Angel singlehandedly (or at least
   with very little trouble) and mouthing off to Ritsuko and Gendou
   without the slightest repercussions.

   Oh yes, did I mention that his
   mother's Laura Croft (of Tomb Raider fame), he can handle a gun and
   drink alcohol, and that he's also got a really cool computer than
   seems like a miniature MAGI system? He reads a lot too. Oh, we may as
   well take the chance and ask him all the Evangelion questions we've
   wanted to know the answers to. Guy probably knows the meaning of life
   as well.

   Once the dark shadow of DJ has passed, however, we turn our attention
   to other matters. Namely, the fact that NXE is, despite Mr Croft, a
   nicely written and plotted fic. It has good prose that moves the fic
   along at a steady pace, neither too slow or long, ably accommodating
   both humour and drama. The plot, all for taking place in
   Neo-Worchester, adding 2 new characters (the second being far less
   annoying than Know-it-all. In fact, Jon Ellison is quite a welcome
   addition to the fic) and being a derivation of the original, is still
   entertaining, with good construction and a fair amount of suspense.
   All in all, a readable, enjoyable piece of work (even with that Croft
   boy and no Shinji. Yes, no Shinji. You heard me right.) Like Andrew, I
   like Shinji, and I think the fic suffers from his exclusion.

   Perhaps,
   Gryphon, unhappy with the main character because he couldn't decide
   when to be competent (as the author said in a mail to me), has instead
   created a character who's ALWAYS competent.

   Oh, and one more note. Gryphon seems to have an axe to grind with some
   of the original cast; he is positively mean to Asuka, Ryouji, Ritsuko,
   and, to a lesser extent, Gendou, making them out to be far more
   unpleasant and pushy than they are in NGE. Especially Asuka.

   Check it out. If you can stomach DJ and the changed cast, it's worth a
   read. If not, chances are you'll (like me) give up halfway through. It
   remains to be seen whether this changes in the next few "seasons."
   Remember : DJ Croft must DIE! ^_^

Black Aeronaut Technologies Creative aerospace solutions for the discerning spacer "To the commissary we should go," Yoda declared firmly. "News of this kind a danish requires."

"Okay now, watch the sniper!"
"What sniper?"
*SPLAT!*
"That sniper." ^_^