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Subject: "Ash Knight revisited yet again..." Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences Symphony of the Sword/The Order of the Rose Topic #299
Reading Topic #299
Star Ranger4
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2483 posts
Jun-22-11, 01:50 PM (EDT)
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"Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
 
   You know, in re-re-re reading S5M1 here it really occurs to me just how well G has manage to clearly enumerate a difference between Aikos 'side' and Utenas.

The Aes and the Vannir learn and adapt. the Daemons dont. Even here we see things seemingly repeating themselves as Akio (who may THINK he's been learning from his mistakes) keeps trying the same things over and over and expecting different results. Touga keeps being his smarmy self and winding up as street Pizza for his efforts. I think Nanami is right even though she hid it in sarcasm... Touga does seem to wind up as street pizza often enough that one might, in fact, believe that its become part of his makeup and he does, at some level, enjoy it. In a lot of ways he does seem quite the Masochist now that he's dead...

Have I ever mentioned what the definition of Insanity is?

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Droken Jun-22-11 1
     RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Pasha Jun-22-11 2
     RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... clg Jun-22-11 3
  RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... drakensis Jun-23-11 4
     RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... The Traitor Jun-23-11 5
         RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... StClair Jun-23-11 6
         RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Gryphonadmin Jun-23-11 7
             RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... The Traitor Jun-24-11 11
                 RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Gryphonadmin Jun-24-11 12
                     RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... CGWolfgang Jun-24-11 14
                         RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Gryphonadmin Jun-24-11 15
         RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Meagen Jun-24-11 8
             RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... JFerio Jun-24-11 9
                 RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Peter Eng Jun-24-11 10
                 RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... trboturtle2 Jun-24-11 13
             RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... BobSchroeck Jun-25-11 16
                 RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Bushido Jun-25-11 17
                     RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again... Star Ranger4 Jun-27-11 18

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Droken
Member since May-6-08
417 posts
Jun-22-11, 05:30 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #0
 
   If I recall my Robin Williams properly, it's performing the same action twice and expecting a different result. Yea, Touga seems an apt example of that.

-Droken

"If at first you don't succeed, bull-
riding is not for you."


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Pasha
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Jun-22-11, 06:26 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #1
 
   >If I recall my Robin Williams properly, it's performing the same
>action twice and expecting a different result. Yea, Touga seems an apt
>example of that.

It's probably older then this, but that's the Alcoholics Anonymous version.

It's what addicts do: Have a drink, snort a line, attack the Tenjou/Ravenhair/Hutchins clan

--
-Pasha
What was that feeling again?
Oh yes.
-Rage-


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clg
Member since Sep-20-05
108 posts
Jun-22-11, 08:47 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #1
 
   As opposed to quantum mechanics, which is performing the same action twice and getting a different result :P

- Chad


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drakensis
Member since Dec-20-06
415 posts
Jun-23-11, 04:05 AM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #0
 
   In Scion terms it's part of his Legend. He's fatebound to be foiled by a plucky girl with a sword. Every. Time.

D.


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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
1197 posts
Jun-23-11, 09:35 AM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #4
 
   I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that gender reassignment surgery has come along a bit since the present era thanks to gene therapy. What Akio needs to do is drug Utena and run her through a machine that does... well... that. Chromosomal fiddling, to make it sound strangely filthy.

Except that this'd just piss her off, and then it'd go worse for him. But nobody likes it when the bad guy wins except me, so y'know.

---
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to hell/But I'll have all the best stories to tell" -- Frank Turner, The Ballad of Me and My Friends


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StClair
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Jun-23-11, 09:13 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #5
 
   Then it would be a different girl that does it the next time.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-23-11, 09:21 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #5
 
   >Chromosomal fiddling, to make it
>sound strangely filthy.

Yeah, uh, that'll be because there's pretty much no way to make nonconsensual gender reassignment not sound filthy. I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but Jesus H. Christ, yo.

>But nobody likes it when the bad guy wins except me, so y'know.

That's a pretty strange thing to like, unless you're a bad guy. And around here, I mean, not only are you sort of totally barking up the wrong tree, you had to walk past a huge sign reading YOU HAVE ARRIVED AT THE WRONG TREE to get there. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
1197 posts
Jun-24-11, 06:59 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #7
 
   >>Chromosomal fiddling, to make it
>>sound strangely filthy.
>
>Yeah, uh, that'll be because there's pretty much no way to make
>nonconsensual gender reassignment not sound filthy. I
>mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but Jesus H. Christ,
>yo.

I could really have phrased that better. I'm trans myself, so there's no real squick about GRS (a bit of squick about the fact that it won't be on the NHS any more because David Cameron hates, well, anyone who didn't go to school with him), but yeah. I meant the phrase "chromosomal fiddling" might be something an elderly man in a trenchcoat might use to proposition a 25th-century young lad... oh gods, stop digging, Cassie, stop digging...

>>But nobody likes it when the bad guy wins except me, so y'know.
>
>That's a pretty strange thing to like, unless you're a bad guy. And
>around here, I mean, not only are you sort of totally barking up the
>wrong tree, you had to walk past a huge sign reading YOU HAVE ARRIVED
>AT THE WRONG TREE to get there. :)

I know. I also know why it wouldn't work here. I'm just saying it's nice when the protagonist of a story isn't the all-conquering hero but actually just gets completely shafted by all the stuff they ignored earlier in the story. You do Classics (well, one module thereof), you know how much the Greek poets loved that sort of thing. For example, say the protagonist's a Nineties-style anti-hero in a fantasy setting, charging through the evil king's Legions of Terror to put him down and rid the land of his tyranny. Now, let's say that, since he's an anti-hero he's most likely pissed off a whole bunch of people to get to the situation of being in power.

These people, the little people - tavern owners, bards, city watchmen and so forth - don't like the fact that he's in power (because this is what happens when a hero takes over a city) and a revolution starts up. To cling to power, the anti-hero starts detaining people who'd seek to overthrow him - in the name of freedom, you understand - and it's not long before he has a violent insurrection to deal with. He has to crack down to govern the way he wishes. Some farmhand hears about it and gathers together the usual fantasy stereotypes, and eventually the anti-hero is killed off by the new guy in exactly the same way as the anti-hero killed the evil lord. It's Greek trangedy. It makes you think a bit more than the standard swords'n'sorcery yarn. At least, I think so...

---
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to hell/But I'll have all the best stories to tell" -- Frank Turner, The Ballad of Me and My Friends


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-24-11, 08:19 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #11
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-11 AT 08:19 PM (EDT)
 
>>>Chromosomal fiddling, to make it
>>>sound strangely filthy.
>>
>>Yeah, uh, that'll be because there's pretty much no way to make
>>nonconsensual gender reassignment not sound filthy. I
>>mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but Jesus H. Christ,
>>yo.
>
>I could really have phrased that better.

Well, maybe, but no matter how you phrase it, you're still talking about - let me highlight the key word for you here - nonconsensual gender reassignment. That sort of puts the entire matter on a different-colored backdrop, you know?

But hey, maybe I'm just squeamish. I'm not down with nonconsensual anything, apart from... let's call it villain aliveness reassignment. That does sort of tend to be done without consent by definition.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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CGWolfgang
Member since Jun-11-09
135 posts
Jun-24-11, 10:32 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #12
 
   >But hey, maybe I'm just squeamish. I'm not down with nonconsensual
>anything, apart from... let's call it villain aliveness
>reassignment. That does sort of tend to be done without consent by
>definition.

Apologies for being slightly off topic here but I just have to point out that villain aliveness reassignment sounds like a great motto for a comedy-esque, beat up the bad guys fighting team. Especially if it could be reworded in Latin.

------------
~If you want my input the red explosions are really pretty and if you did enough you might live for a few more excrutiating seconds

My not so humble contribution to cyberspace

http://cgwolfgang.deviantart.com/


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-24-11, 11:19 PM (EDT)
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15. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #14
 
   >>But hey, maybe I'm just squeamish. I'm not down with nonconsensual
>>anything, apart from... let's call it villain aliveness
>>reassignment. That does sort of tend to be done without consent by
>>definition.
>
>Apologies for being slightly off topic here but I just have to point
>out that villain aliveness reassignment sounds like a great motto for
>a comedy-esque, beat up the bad guys fighting team. Especially if it
>could be reworded in Latin.

Believe me, I welcome anything that wanders off topic in this thread at this point. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Meagen
Member since Jul-14-02
567 posts
Jun-24-11, 04:43 AM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #5
 
   > What Akio needs to do is drug Utena and run her through a
>machine that does... well... that. Chromosomal fiddling, to make it
>sound strangely filthy.

Leaving aside the massive, massive ick factor of that idea, any plan where step 1 is "kidnap Utena Tenjou" is not a very good plan.

--
With great power come great perks.


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JFerio
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Jun-24-11, 02:37 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #8
 
   >Leaving aside the massive, massive ick factor of that idea, any plan
>where step 1 is "kidnap Utena Tenjou" is not a very good plan.

From what I can tell, most plans that would start like that would have trouble getting to step 3.





Jeffrey 'JFerio' Crouch
'It'll be all right... I think.' - Nene Romanova



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Peter Eng
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2045 posts
Jun-24-11, 06:43 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #9
 
   >>Leaving aside the massive, massive ick factor of that idea, any plan
>>where step 1 is "kidnap Utena Tenjou" is not a very good plan.
>
>From what I can tell, most plans that would start like that would have
>trouble getting to step 3.

Found in the paper recycling bin at Ohtori Academy, Oriphos:

1. Kidnap Utena Tenjou.
2. ????
3. Pain and suffering (mine)

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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trboturtle2
Member since Jul-4-09
210 posts
Jun-24-11, 09:18 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #9
 
   >>Leaving aside the massive, massive ick factor of that idea, any plan
>>where step 1 is "kidnap Utena Tenjou" is not a very good plan.
>
>From what I can tell, most plans that would start like that would have
>trouble getting to step 3.

Unless the plan is:

1) Try to kidnap Utena Tenjou
2) When Step 1 fails, Run real fast and pray you'll outrun her and all her friends.
3) When Step 2 fails,Die a messy death.

See? B-D

Craig

----------------------------
IAMTW-Nominated Author

Author of the Battletech Novels, Icons of War,
Elements of Treason: Duty, Elements of Treason:
Opportunity
, and Elements of Treason: Honor

Co-author of Four Outcast Ops
novels -- African Firestorm, Red Ice, Watchlist, and
Shadow Government.

Author of the The Russia-Ukraine War Factbook (Vol 1)

All-around nice guy!


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BobSchroeck
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2258 posts
Jun-25-11, 07:22 AM (EDT)
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16. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #8
 
   >any plan where step 1 is "kidnap Utena Tenjou" is not a very good plan.

Doubly so if it makes you lose your hat in the process.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Bushido
Member since Apr-8-10
376 posts
Jun-25-11, 10:24 AM (EDT)
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17. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #16
 
   "Any plan where you lose your hat is a bad plan."

--------
Wedge Defense Force General
Order 12: "Try to avoid
freaking the mundanes."


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Star Ranger4
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2483 posts
Jun-27-11, 00:59 AM (EDT)
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18. "RE: Ash Knight revisited yet again..."
In response to message #17
 
   >"Any plan where you lose your hat is a bad plan."

Especially when it was still attached to your head when the loss happens.

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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