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Subject: "Thoughts on Liza..." Archived thread - Read only
 
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Offsides
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1264 posts
Dec-17-01, 10:37 AM (EDT)
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"Thoughts on Liza..."
 
   I've been thinking about the new Liza Broadbank (no idea why, other than the potential for a real interesting character), and I have a few ideas that I wanted to throw out for discussion...

We know she's planning on coming back to DMS for the fall, but obviously things will be very different than they were at WPI. I'm wondering how many people in her old clique will be at DMS, and what they are going do think. And perhaps more importantly, what is she going to think about them. Part of me figures she'll try to salvage whatever relationships she has with them, but most of me guesses that she won't want anything to do with them now that she sees her old life for what it was.

I'm also looking forward to her interaction with Kate and the rest of the gang - I figure she'll join the Duelists' Society, although she may not want to live in the castle. I'm also guessing that she may try to rebuild the Fencing Club, but if she does I expect it to be rather different from before.

The thing I'm looking forward to most though is her interaction with Sky and Saonji - especially the latter. In many ways they're kindred spirits - driven to the brink of madness, and even beyond, by circumstance only to get yanked back somehow. I'm not sure of how Saonji came back, but we saw him help pull Liza back. And there's always her newly discovered abilities and what she'll do with them... I smell another IPO candidate (at least for Psi training)... :)

In retrospect I'm realizing that this is rather disjointed, but that's what I get for posting on 3 hours sleep... And to think I almost posted this before I went to bed...

Offsides

#include <liza.h>

#91;...#93; in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #pi;
#include <stdsig.h>


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Thoughts on Liza... zojojojo Dec-17-01 1
     RE: Thoughts on Liza... Offsides Dec-17-01 2
         RE: Thoughts on Liza... Gryphonadmin Dec-17-01 3
  RE: Thoughts on Liza... Gryphonadmin Dec-17-01 4
     RE: Thoughts on Liza... JeanneHedge Dec-17-01 5
         RE: Thoughts on Liza... Mephronmoderator Dec-17-01 6
             RE: Thoughts on Liza... Gryphonadmin Dec-17-01 7
                 RE: Thoughts on Liza... Logan D Dec-18-01 8
                     RE: Thoughts on Liza... Gryphonadmin Dec-18-01 9
                         RE: Thoughts on Liza... Logan D Dec-18-01 10
                             RE: Thoughts on Liza... BobSchroeck Dec-18-01 13
                                 RE: Thoughts on Liza... Laudre Dec-18-01 14
                         RE: Thoughts on Liza... remandeteam Dec-19-01 35
             RE: Thoughts on Liza... JeanneHedge Dec-18-01 17
                 RE: Thoughts on Liza... Gryphonadmin Dec-18-01 18
         RE: Thoughts on Liza... Lostboy Dec-18-01 12
             RE: Thoughts on Liza... JeanneHedge Dec-18-01 19
                 RE: Thoughts on Liza... Mister Fnord Dec-18-01 21
                     RE: Thoughts on Liza... Croaker Dec-20-01 39
                         RE: Thoughts on Liza... drakensisthered Dec-20-01 40
             RE: Thoughts on Liza... megazone Dec-19-01 24
                 RE: Thoughts on Liza... remandeteam Dec-19-01 36
                     RE: Thoughts on Liza... trigger Dec-19-01 37
     RE: Thoughts on Liza... Matrix Dragon Dec-18-01 20
         RE: Thoughts on Liza... zojojojo Dec-18-01 22
             RE: Thoughts on Liza... Matrix Dragon Dec-18-01 23
  RE: Thoughts on Liza... Lostboy Dec-18-01 11
     RE: Thoughts on Liza... Verbena Dec-18-01 15
         RE: Thoughts on Liza... trigger Dec-18-01 16
         RE: Thoughts on Liza... megazone Dec-19-01 25
             RE: Thoughts on Liza... Gryphonadmin Dec-19-01 26
                 RE: Thoughts on Liza... megazone Dec-19-01 27
                     RE: Thoughts on Liza... Gryphonadmin Dec-19-01 28
                         RE: Thoughts on Liza... Redneck Dec-19-01 29
                             RE: Thoughts on Liza... Verbena Dec-19-01 32
             RE: Thoughts on Liza... Shadowhavoc Dec-19-01 33
                 RE: Thoughts on Liza... zojojojo Dec-19-01 34
                     RE: Thoughts on Liza... Shadowhavoc Dec-19-01 38
                         RE: Thoughts on Liza... Khirsah Dec-24-01 41

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zojojojo
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631 posts
Dec-17-01, 11:51 AM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #0
 
   >We know she's planning on coming back to DMS for the fall, but
>obviously things will be very different than they were at WPI. I'm
>wondering how many people in her old clique will be at DMS, and what
>they are going do think. And perhaps more importantly, what is she
>going to think about them. Part of me figures she'll try to salvage
>whatever relationships she has with them, but most of me guesses that
>she won't want anything to do with them now that she sees her old life
>for what it was.

She'll probably think of them much the same way that everyone else does... as annoying little sycophants... but maybe they can be salvaged...

>I'm also looking forward to her interaction with Kate and the rest of
>the gang - I figure she'll join the Duelists' Society, although she
>may not want to live in the castle. I'm also guessing that she may
>try to rebuild the Fencing Club, but if she does I expect it to be
>rather different from before.

I rather suspect that she will start a fencing club, but it will be just that: a fencing club, and not a Personaly Power Base From Which To Antagonize Kate. Juri and Sky may even join it...

>The thing I'm looking forward to most though is her interaction with
>Sky and Saonji - especially the latter. In many ways they're kindred
>spirits - driven to the brink of madness, and even beyond, by
>circumstance only to get yanked back somehow. I'm not sure of how
>Saonji came back, but we saw him help pull Liza back.

To quote Utena (?), "He got laid." :) See Azalynn's Winter Holiday for the full scoop on Saionji's return from the brink of madness...

> And there's
>always her newly discovered abilities and what she'll do with them...
>I smell another IPO candidate (at least for Psi training)... :)

Maybe... or maybe when Devlin returns, he'll help her train...


-Z

---
We are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.

-Z


---
Remember kids: guns make you stupid, duct tape makes you smart.


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Offsides
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1264 posts
Dec-17-01, 12:50 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #1
 
   >I rather suspect that she will start a fencing club, but it will be
>just that: a fencing club, and not a Personaly Power Base From Which
>To Antagonize Kate. Juri and Sky may even join it...
>
That's kinda what I suspect, but she may just go with the Duelists instead since her mind is now more open to other styles...

>To quote Utena (?), "He got laid." :) See Azalynn's Winter
>Holiday
for the full scoop on Saionji's return from the brink of
>madness...
>
Yes, but that's only the _second_ time, if I'm interpreting things correctly - something (most likely Akio) screwed him up big time before, yet he managed to recover - even Utena thought he had become somewhat decent before she got displaced. I'm wondering what got him there in the first place...

Offsides

#include <insanity.h>

#91;...#93; in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #pi;
#include <stdsig.h>


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Gryphonadmin
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22374 posts
Dec-17-01, 03:10 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #2
 
   >Yes, but that's only the _second_ time, if I'm interpreting things
>correctly - something (most likely Akio) screwed him up big time
>before, yet he managed to recover - even Utena thought he had become
>somewhat decent before she got displaced. I'm wondering what got him
>there in the first place...

Toward the end of the original series, he just sort of got tired of being Minion Boy. I think his repeated defeats had started drilling into his head that he wasn't on the right team. He stopped hanging around with Touga as much, stopped hanging around with Akio at all, and generally made an effort at turning back into a real person again. (Touga also gave that a token effort, but it wasn't very impressive. I think he was too far in to get out again.)

As for why he was allowed to do that, one would guess that with his plan approaching completion and, so far as he could tell, everything going smoothly, Akio lost interest in Saionji and let him wander off.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-17-01, 03:13 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #0
 
   >Part of me figures she'll try to salvage
>whatever relationships she has with them, but most of me guesses that
>she won't want anything to do with them now that she sees her old life
>for what it was.

Some of them might be worth bothering with, especially the younger ones, who've had less time to get dug deep into the rut. Most of the others, though, the ones her own age and older, there's not much point. (Her revolving door "fiancés", for example, were interchangeable society ornaments, and in retrospect, the whole thing strikes her as a very stupid joke anyway.)

Some of them won't be back, since they were from Earth, but the bulk of them were fellow Avalonians - children of other fixtures in the New Avalon corporate-mucky-muck society scene - so she'll still have a good percentage of them to deal with.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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JeanneHedge
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933 posts
Dec-17-01, 07:37 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #4
 
   A different question about Liza -

Since she's been cut off, how is she paying for school? Is she on scholarship? Work-study? Become part of the "Megazone-Gryphon Endowment Program"?

(I have the impression that, barring something unusual event, her summer job doesn't normally pay enough, which is why I didn't mention it.)


Regards,
Jeanne

http://www.jhedge.com
http://go.compuserve.com/Anime

Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for Tianxia
"Never give up, never surrender!"



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Mephronmoderator
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Dec-17-01, 08:08 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #5
 
   >A different question about Liza -
>
>Since she's been cut off, how is she paying for school? Is she on
>scholarship? Work-study? Become part of the "Megazone-Gryphon
>Endowment Program"?

Probably the same way that B'elanna is: Financial Aid.

(which is probably a slightly less direct form of the MGEP.)

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals
(They won't give me LARTs, they say that's restricted to Michael.)

--
Jen Dantes - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lady of Sith Tech Support.
"This may not be a good idea, but it's the only one I have."


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Gryphonadmin
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22374 posts
Dec-17-01, 10:11 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #6
 
   >>A different question about Liza -
>>
>>Since she's been cut off, how is she paying for school? Is she on
>>scholarship? Work-study? Become part of the "Megazone-Gryphon
>>Endowment Program"?
>
>Probably the same way that B'elanna is: Financial Aid.

Yep. That's how Saionji's managing as well. Liza has ability, always has had - she's just more motivated nowadays than she used to be...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Logan D
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Dec-18-01, 01:30 AM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-01 AT 01:31 AM (EST)

>>Probably the same way that B'elanna is: Financial Aid.
>
>Yep. That's how Saionji's managing as well. Liza has ability, always
>has had - she's just more motivated nowadays than she used to be...

Which brings up a point -- she HAS to be at least as intelligent as the other WPI students. Sure - daddy sent her to the institute to cause trouble for Kate, but she couldn't have _stayed_ there if she wasn't making the grade. Any thoughts on what she might actually have an aptitude for? Perhaps she was in some kind of management track insisted on by her father and later finds out that once she's "off the guided rails", so to speak, that she discovers something that she's actually good at and likes?

Yes, that's rather the point of her current adventure's with Sky's people. I assume you either had it thought out before hand, or came up with something once it was obvious what the character was going to do. I guess we'll see what happens when she gets back. I'm just curious as to your thought process on this, since it's come up.

-Logan
-----------------------------------------------
"I need to selectively edit my mental images.
Please hand me a fork."

William K. "Bushmaster" Bushway
------------------------------------------------


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Gryphonadmin
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22374 posts
Dec-18-01, 01:34 AM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #8
 
   >Which brings up a point -- she HAS to be at least as intelligent as
>the other WPI students. Sure - daddy sent her to the institute to
>cause trouble for Kate, but she couldn't have _stayed_ there if she
>wasn't making the grade. Any thoughts on what she might actually have
>an aptitude for?

Yes.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Logan D
Charter Member
Dec-18-01, 01:49 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #9
 
   >>Which brings up a point -- she HAS to be at least as intelligent as
>>the other WPI students. Sure - daddy sent her to the institute to
>>cause trouble for Kate, but she couldn't have _stayed_ there if she
>>wasn't making the grade. Any thoughts on what she might actually have
>>an aptitude for?
>
>Yes.
>
>--G.


Ouchie...

You really enjoy this sort of thing, don't you? Admit it. ^_^

-Logan
-----------------------------------------------
"I need to selectively edit my mental images.
Please hand me a fork."

William K. "Bushmaster" Bushway
------------------------------------------------


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BobSchroeck
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2258 posts
Dec-18-01, 07:55 AM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #10
 
   >>>Any thoughts on what she might actually have
>>>an aptitude for?
>>Yes.
>Ouchie...
>You really enjoy this sort of thing, don't you? Admit it. ^_^

I have come to the conclusion, however belatedly, that Gryphon knows exactly what all these characters are doing ten, twenty, maybe a hundred years down the line, and that SotS is nothing more than a prologue to explain how they got to that point. What we're reading now is the backstory to the real saga...

-- Bob
---------------
"I am an ethical being," the daemon explained. "These people expected to be eaten. When one is in a strange place, the most ethical thing is to treat people as they expect to be treated". -- John Benson

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Laudre
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Dec-18-01, 10:22 AM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #13
 
   >>>>Any thoughts on what she might actually have
>>>>an aptitude for?
>>>Yes.
>>Ouchie...
>>You really enjoy this sort of thing, don't you? Admit it. ^_^
>
>I have come to the conclusion, however belatedly, that Gryphon knows
>exactly what all these characters are doing ten, twenty, maybe
>a hundred years down the line, and that SotS is nothing more
>than a prologue to explain how they got to that point.

Gryph said months ago that he had these characters' lives planned out to sometime in the 2420s already. Who knows how far he's gotten since then :).

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Dec-19-01, 04:19 PM (EDT)
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35. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #9
 
   >>Which brings up a point -- she HAS to be at least as intelligent as
>>the other WPI students. Sure - daddy sent her to the institute to
>>cause trouble for Kate, but she couldn't have _stayed_ there if she
>>wasn't making the grade. Any thoughts on what she might actually have
>>an aptitude for?
>
>Yes.
>
>--G.

Thank you, Dr. Vorlon.

--rR

--rR


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JeanneHedge
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933 posts
Dec-18-01, 07:24 PM (EDT)
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17. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #6
 
   >>A different question about Liza -
>>
>>Since she's been cut off, how is she paying for school? Is she on
>>scholarship? Work-study? Become part of the "Megazone-Gryphon
>>Endowment Program"?
>
>Probably the same way that B'elanna is: Financial Aid.

B'elanna is on scholarship. I know that's actually financial aid too, but for some reason my brain insists that having a scholarship is about the people running the place wanting you there, while financial aid is what you get when you want to be there and they don't care one way or the other.

If Liza ends up paying her way (like Saionji does) by working as a fry cook or some other job where she's in regular contact with the other students, and were this the real world, I'd really feel sorry for her. Teenage girls can be horribly vicious, and Liza's old gang learned from the best.


Regards,
Jeanne

http://www.jhedge.com
http://go.compuserve.com/Anime

Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for Tianxia
"Never give up, never surrender!"



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Gryphonadmin
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22374 posts
Dec-18-01, 07:29 PM (EDT)
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18. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #17
 
   >B'elanna is on scholarship. I know that's actually financial aid too,
>but for some reason my brain insists that having a scholarship is
>about the people running the place wanting you there, while financial
>aid is what you get when you want to be there and they don't care one
>way or the other.

Mm... I guess the distinction can be made, yes.

>If Liza ends up paying her way (like Saionji does) by working as a fry
>cook or some other job where she's in regular contact with the other
>students, and were this the real world, I'd really feel sorry for her.
> Teenage girls can be horribly vicious, and Liza's old gang learned
>from the best.

If Liza can demonstrate financial need, she can qualify for the same sort of program B'Elanna is using; she has the ability. Saionji has to work for a living because, between his unfamiliarity with Midgard at the time and the fact that he didn't pay a lot of attention to his studies at Ohtori during the Tournament (or much of anything else besides that Tournament), he barely made it into the Institute at all. Going strictly by calendar, he ought to be three years ahead of Utena, not in the same class.

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Lostboy
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Dec-18-01, 02:48 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #5
 
   >A different question about Liza -
>
>Since she's been cut off, how is she paying for school? Is she on
>scholarship? Work-study? Become part of the "Megazone-Gryphon
>Endowment Program"?

Blink Megazone & Gryphon are qualified plastic surgeons?


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JeanneHedge
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933 posts
Dec-18-01, 07:34 PM (EDT)
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19. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #12
 
   >>A different question about Liza -
>>
>>Since she's been cut off, how is she paying for school? Is she on
>>scholarship? Work-study? Become part of the "Megazone-Gryphon
>>Endowment Program"?
>
>Blink Megazone & Gryphon are qualified plastic surgeons?

I think Saionji is the only one from Cephiro that didn't take some sort of endowment from Megazone or Gryphon.

Toss Janice Barlow and the rest of Kate's circle of friends into the mix, and the seed for the next generation of footstep followers has been well and truly planted.


(minds straight to the gutter, that's this group all right...)


Regards,
Jeanne

http://www.jhedge.com
http://go.compuserve.com/Anime

Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for Tianxia
"Never give up, never surrender!"



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Mister Fnord
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294 posts
Dec-18-01, 09:46 PM (EDT)
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21. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #19
 
  
>(minds straight to the gutter, that's this group all right...)

You have to admit we do it quite well, though.

Mr. Fnord, killing time on line before FotR
--
"'Explain all that,' said the Mock Turtle.
'No, no! The adventures first,' said the Gryphon in an impatient tone: 'explanations take such a dreadful time.'"

-- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

--
Mr. Fnord


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Croaker
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639 posts
Dec-20-01, 01:29 PM (EDT)
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39. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #21
 
   >
>>(minds straight to the gutter, that's this group all right...)
>
>You have to admit we do it quite well, though.
>
>Mr. Fnord, killing time on line before FotR

Is it just me, or did the first thing that flashed through anyone else's mind when they say this was waiting for an SoS fanfic entitled 'Fellowship of the Rose'?


--
"Eat hot blazing photonic pulse fire, you alien invading human-abducting saucer-alien bastards!" -- Captain of EAS Bellerophon, firing on a Vree cruiser.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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drakensisthered
Charter Member
Dec-20-01, 06:30 PM (EDT)
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40. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #39
 
   >>
>>>(minds straight to the gutter, that's this group all right...)
>>
>>You have to admit we do it quite well, though.
>>
>>Mr. Fnord, killing time on line before FotR
>
>Is it just me, or did the first thing that flashed through anyone
>else's mind when they say this was waiting for an SoS fanfic entitled
>'Fellowship of the Rose'?
>
...in D Major.


drakensisthered

Who will now stop skirting around the edges of Rule #3


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megazone
Charter Member
Dec-19-01, 00:31 AM (EDT)
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24. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #12
 
   >Blink Megazone & Gryphon are qualified plastic surgeons?

Taking this as a straight line. At least MegaZone is a qualified surgeon by the time of FI - he made part of his living during the exile doing extensive experimentation and development of cyberware. Including self-implantation, but also working on others. Cosmetic work is certainly part of that.

Add to that retro-viral genetic manipulation and nanotech based body modification, and I expect that either of them could do something as comparatively basic as breast enlargement.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
eBay listings - updated 12/09/01


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Dec-19-01, 04:21 PM (EDT)
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36. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #24
 
   >>Blink Megazone & Gryphon are qualified plastic surgeons?
>Add to that retro-viral genetic manipulation and nanotech based body
>modification, and I expect that either of them could do something as
>comparatively basic as breast enlargement.
>
>-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org

All you'd need are affadavits.

--rR

--rR


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trigger
Charter Member
1500 posts
Dec-19-01, 06:39 PM (EDT)
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37. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #36
 
  
>All you'd need are affadavits.
>
> --rR

Ah! bad, bad mental image....

t.
damn it, I fell off my chair laughing again...

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

Trigger Argee
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games." - Corwin of Amber


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Matrix Dragon
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1893 posts
Dec-18-01, 09:19 PM (EDT)
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20. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #4
 
   >>Part of me figures she'll try to salvage
>>whatever relationships she has with them, but most of me guesses that
>>she won't want anything to do with them now that she sees her old life
>>for what it was.
>
>Some of them might be worth bothering with, especially the younger
>ones, who've had less time to get dug deep into the rut. Most of the
>others, though, the ones her own age and older, there's not much
>point. (Her revolving door "fiancés", for example, were
>interchangeable society ornaments, and in retrospect, the whole thing
>strikes her as a very stupid joke anyway.)

This is just my personal opinion, but a lot of Liza's 'friends' were either lackeys or people from the same social environment as her. Liza no longer has the power and money she had before to keep them in line. I feel that some of them may avoid her, but others may use the change in social structure to manipulate her. After all, she's now one of those she used to classify as lackeys.

Matrix Dragon
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." --J.R.R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for obvious reasons." -Matrix Dragon

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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zojojojo
Charter Member
631 posts
Dec-18-01, 10:28 PM (EDT)
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22. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #20
 
   >This is just my personal opinion, but a lot of Liza's 'friends' were
>either lackeys or people from the same social environment as her. Liza
>no longer has the power and money she had before to keep them in line.
>I feel that some of them may avoid her, but others may use the change
>in social structure to manipulate her. After all, she's now one of
>those she used to classify as lackeys.

mmmm.... My understanding of a lackey is someone who actually wants to hang around the person they're lackeying for, be it to bask in their glorious radiance, to gain power by assosciation or merely to ride their coattails. Liza doesn't strike me as that kind of person. If she gets pulled into Kate/Utena's orbit, it'll be because she genuinely enjoys their company, as opposed to before her change of heart, it would be because she wanted to be on the inside where it's easiest to cause trouble.

But that's just my opinion. That and 3000$US will get you a nice vacation in Australia...

>Matrix Dragon
>"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and
>quick to anger." --J.R.R. Tolkien
>"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for obvious reasons."
>-Matrix Dragon

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

-Z

---
We are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.

-Z


---
Remember kids: guns make you stupid, duct tape makes you smart.


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Matrix Dragon
Charter Member
1893 posts
Dec-18-01, 10:58 PM (EDT)
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23. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #22
 
   >>This is just my personal opinion, but a lot of Liza's 'friends' were
>>either lackeys or people from the same social environment as her. Liza
>>no longer has the power and money she had before to keep them in line.
>>I feel that some of them may avoid her, but others may use the change
>>in social structure to manipulate her. After all, she's now one of
>>those she used to classify as lackeys.
>
>mmmm.... My understanding of a lackey is someone who actually wants to
>hang around the person they're lackeying for, be it to bask in their
>glorious radiance, to gain power by assosciation or merely to ride
>their coattails. Liza doesn't strike me as that kind of person. If she
>gets pulled into Kate/Utena's orbit, it'll be because she genuinely
>enjoys their company, as opposed to before her change of heart, it
>would be because she wanted to be on the inside where it's easiest to
>cause trouble.

I should have said 'try to manipulate her' I'm talking blackmail, money, and all those other things that make me hate arrogant rich fools. I never meant Liza would actually go for this sort of thing.

>But that's just my opinion. That and 3000$US will get you a nice
>vacation in Australia...

Be sure to pay me a visit when you're down here. I just got my hands on the Nadesico series and need someone to share it with.

>"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good
>with ketchup."

Bah, too standard.

Matrix Dragon
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." --J.R.R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for obvious reasons." -Matrix Dragon

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Lostboy
Charter Member
Dec-18-01, 02:43 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #0
 
  
>#include <liza.h>


Oh I'm sure you'll find some of that if you look hard enough ;P


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Verbena
Charter Member
1107 posts
Dec-18-01, 11:57 AM (EDT)
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15. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #11
 
   >
>>#include <liza.h>
>
>
>Oh I'm sure you'll find some of that if you look hard enough ;P

If you've never dreaded opening up a file ending in .cpp, you won't get the joke.

The Endowment Program thing I'm not going to even comment on.

Look...I'm not saying I'm any kind of saint or anything, but there's a time and place for this, and I don't think an amazingly mature (for the net) board is the place. Compared to some other places I've been to, hanging around a board where everyone likes the same things and noone trolls is a godsend. Please don't ruin it for me.


--"I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim, and give thy soul up to the inferno's embrace..."

------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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trigger
Charter Member
1500 posts
Dec-18-01, 03:06 PM (EDT)
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16. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #15
 
  
>Look...I'm not saying I'm any kind of saint or anything, but there's a
>time and place for this, and I don't think an amazingly mature (for
>the net) board is the place. Compared to some other places I've been
>to, hanging around a board where everyone likes the same things and
>noone trolls is a godsend. Please don't ruin it for me.

Check the profiles. You may be pleasantly surprised.

t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

Trigger Argee
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games." - Corwin of Amber


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megazone
Charter Member
Dec-19-01, 00:39 AM (EDT)
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25. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #15
 
   >noone trolls is a godsend. Please don't ruin it for me.

Lostboy is an incredibly mild troll - and he even seems to make legit posts now and then.

The best defense against trolls is to simply not reply to a trolling post.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
eBay listings - updated 12/09/01


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22374 posts
Dec-19-01, 01:24 AM (EDT)
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26. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #25
 
   >The best defense against trolls is to simply not reply to a trolling
>post.

... like you just did in your previous post.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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megazone
Charter Member
Dec-19-01, 01:39 AM (EDT)
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27. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #26
 
   >>The best defense against trolls is to simply not reply to a trolling
>>post.
>
>... like you just did in your previous post.

It was an opening to point out some backstory details.

Like I said, Lostboy can be useful.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
eBay listings - updated 12/09/01


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22374 posts
Dec-19-01, 02:06 AM (EDT)
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28. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #27
 
   >Like I said, Lostboy can be useful.

Not any more he can't. Mua ha ha ha.

--G.
drunk with power
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Redneck
Charter Member
Dec-19-01, 02:09 AM (EDT)
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29. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #28
 
   >>Like I said, Lostboy can be useful.
>
>Not any more he can't. Mua ha ha ha.

Tch. Zoner, if you need somebody to say stupid things for you, ask me. God knows I say enough dumbass things without anybody asking...

Redneck (you have to be smart to be dumb)

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope


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Verbena
Charter Member
1107 posts
Dec-19-01, 09:50 AM (EDT)
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32. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #29
 
   >>>Like I said, Lostboy can be useful.
>>
>>Not any more he can't. Mua ha ha ha.
>
>Tch. Zoner, if you need somebody to say stupid things for you, ask me.
>God knows I say enough dumbass things without anybody asking...
>
>Redneck (you have to be smart to be dumb)

Whyfor you need make stupid commentary? I seem to be on a roll as far as saying stupid things goes. Everyone was right; he wasn't nearly bad enough for me to go off on him, even though I remained polite.


--"I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim, and give thy soul up to the inferno's embrace..."

------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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Shadowhavoc
Charter Member
Dec-19-01, 10:55 AM (EDT)
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33. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #25
 
   >>noone trolls is a godsend. Please don't ruin it for me.
>
>Lostboy is an incredibly mild troll - and he even seems to make legit
>posts now and then.
>
>The best defense against trolls is to simply not reply to a trolling
>post.

I'm still a bit new at the Forum thing (this is the only one I've ever joined). What's the deal with trolls and trolling?

Wondering if I'm considered one :)


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zojojojo
Charter Member
631 posts
Dec-19-01, 11:39 AM (EDT)
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34. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #33
 
   >>>noone trolls is a godsend. Please don't ruin it for me.
>>
>>Lostboy is an incredibly mild troll - and he even seems to make legit
>>posts now and then.
>>
>>The best defense against trolls is to simply not reply to a trolling
>>post.
>
>I'm still a bit new at the Forum thing (this is the only one I've ever
>joined). What's the deal with trolls and trolling?

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but...

troll - (TROHL ing) v.t. To make a post for the sake of starting a religious war (in the extreme) or to provoke a particular response (as opposed to asking an honest question which starts a hearty debate, which is just fine).

troll - (TROHL) n. a) Someone who practices trolling on a regular basis. It get's real old, real quick, much like flames and flame wars. b) an ugly creature that lives under bridges and turns to stone in sunlight. See The Hobbit.


>Wondering if I'm considered one :)

If you were, you'd know :)

-Z

---
We are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.

-Z


---
Remember kids: guns make you stupid, duct tape makes you smart.


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Shadowhavoc
Charter Member
Dec-19-01, 11:27 PM (EDT)
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38. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #34
 
   >I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but...
>
>troll - (TROHL ing) v.t. To make a post for the sake of starting a
>religious war (in the extreme) or to provoke a particular response (as
>opposed to asking an honest question which starts a hearty debate,
>which is just fine).

Provoking really isn't my style, if it's one thing I value, it's honesty.

>troll - (TROHL) n. a) Someone who practices trolling on a regular
>basis. It get's real old, real quick, much like flames and flame wars.
>b) an ugly creature that lives under bridges and turns to stone in
>sunlight. See The Hobbit.

Hnh, I can identify with that last one....


>>Wondering if I'm considered one
>
>If you were, you'd know :)
>
In other words, people would ignore me and the top brass would eliminate me from the forum.


"Gah! Kevin Smith fans!"


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Khirsah
Charter Member
Dec-24-01, 03:01 PM (EDT)
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41. "RE: Thoughts on Liza..."
In response to message #38
 
   >>b) an ugly creature that lives under bridges and turns to stone in
>>sunlight. See The Hobbit.
>
>Hnh, I can identify with that last one....

You, too?

>In other words, people would ignore me and the top brass would
>eliminate me from the forum.

Basically, yes.
Oh, and some people would explode in a particularly entertaining fireball at you. >:)

>"Gah! Kevin Smith fans!"

...Mu?


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