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Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
Gryphon
Charter Member
21481 posts |
Mar-02-22, 06:55 PM (EDT) |
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"Adventures in Bureaucracy"
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LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-22 AT 06:55 PM (EST) or What Happens When the Paperwork Literally Can't Be Done?At the University of Maine, as at most universities in the United States, in order to be awarded a degree higher than a baccalaureate, one must seek out and constitute a Graduate Committee. This semi-formal body needs to meet only once. For most grad students, this is on the occasion of one's thesis or dissertation defense, an academic ritual in which one presents one's findings, demonstrates one's understanding of the material, is questioned as to one's methodology, and so forth. The committee then discusses the matter and decides whether the work merits the awarding of a degree. In my case, I had to abandon my thesis during the great library shutdown of 2020 and complete my MA by coursework instead. I still have to have a committee, and it still has to meet once, but instead of a thesis defense, it's been described to me as more of a review of the work I've done as a graduate student, how it might be connected together, what further developments it might lead to, and generally whether I've been paying attention for the last... well, in my case seven years, because I've been a part-time student the whole time. This has caused some problems. The rules for constituting an MA committee at the University of Maine are simple, but fairly strict. It must consist of three faculty members in the same department as one's prospective degree (in my case, the History Department of the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences). The candidate must have taken at least one course from each committee member. All must have been asked to take part and agreed (i.e., you can't just put their names down on the form and voilà, they're obliged to be on your committee). I had my committee in place, my program of study filed, and whatnot last year, but between one thing and another, they weren't able to meet during the Fall 2021 semester, in which I actually completed the last of the required credits. That's why I'm taking a course this spring even though I don't really need it. Last week, my advisor (who is also the chair of my committee) and I determined that yes, everything's been done that needs to be done except the committee meeting, and set about trying to schedule it. And it turns out to be impossible. There is literally no two-hour span within the month of March, when we'd have to do it in order for everything to go through for a May graduation, in which all three of them can meet. Not even virtually from different physical places. One of them is always teaching or attending to some other immovable duty when the others are available. So, one of them (the one with the narrowest availability) chose to bow out. I'd have to replace him, and quickly, if we still want to get the thing done this semester. And here's the thing: It's not possible. There is no one else who can take that spot within the rules described above. Apart from the three who were already on the committee, I've taken graduate courses from three other members of the University of Maine faculty in my time, but: - One is not in the History Department (he's the Political Science professor who ran the Camden Conference course when I took it, both as an undergrad and then again a few years later for graduate credit); - One has retired; and - One is deceased. So. My advisor is now inquiring of the department and the Graduate School whether, under the circumstances, we can get permission to go ahead with two committee members. If not, she'll try to persuade the retired professor to join, which would still be legal as long as he's not the chair, although he is under absolutely no obligation to do so. Failing that, we'll have to wait until sometime in the summer term, or possibly next fall. Punch line: Until fairly recently, MA committees at UMaine required (as PhD committees still do) five professors. Presumably the department was bigger then. Although, looking at the website, there are quite a number of history professors I've either only worked with as an undergrad, or never met, presumably because they're into things I wasn't interested in taking courses about. Perhaps there's an attempt to steer students toward "well-roundedness" built into the system that I missed, although that seems like a weird thing to be trying to instill at the graduate level, when we're supposed to be specializing. So yeah! That's a thing that's happening. Or rather not happening, as of right now. The fact that some of my grad-level coursework goes back seven and a half years, to the tail end of my undergrad career (when I started taking above-400-level courses for later graduate credit), is a separate issue. I don't even remember some of my earliest grad courses. I do have all the files that I can reread to remind myself, but you know, this is not a great time to be trying to concentrate. --G. By an odd coincidence, that second Camden Conference I attended as a grad student, way back in February of 2015, had as its topic the resurgent threat to world stability posed by Russia, which had seized the Crimea the year before. I even wrote a paper suggesting that the rest of Ukraine was probably next. -><- Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ zgryphon at that email service Google has Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam. |
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Vorticity
Member since Feb-6-12
108 posts |
Mar-02-22, 11:43 PM (EDT) |
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2. "RE: Adventures in Bureaucracy"
In response to message #0
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Eh, this is an MA, not a PhD. They should do it with two professors, or with a retired prof. Probably with some sort of informal assurance from the committee member that's being removed that he would have approved you or something. In my experiences, while universities have lots of policies to steer you in the right direction, they are easily waived when it would be unfair to the student or inconvenient to the university. Unless you manage to make an enemy of a member of faculty, in which case you are generally and fully boned. I've met people who had this happen, and generally the best thing to do is just to leave and get a degree elsewhere. The other reason that policy doesn't get waived is if people really don't think you're qualified for the degree, which means they follow the policy so as to not get sued. I knew a guy who tried suing the university over this, and let's just say life has not gone well for him. It also might work to get the PoliSci professor on the committee if the department chair or department's graduate chair approves. If it doesn't get resolved quickly, don't be afraid to talk to people about it, especially people you already know. The folks at your division of graduate studies -- whatever it's called there -- might know how similar cases were handled in other departments. It's not as if small faculty sizes in the humanities are a new phenomenon, after all. Don't start from the "please fix this for me" mode, just ask if they have any ideas on how to proceed. |
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Gryphon
Charter Member
21481 posts |
Mar-12-22, 00:24 AM (EDT) |
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3. "RE: Adventures in Bureaucracy"
In response to message #2
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>Eh, this is an MA, not a PhD. They should do it with two >professors, or with a retired prof.After a week or two, the Graduate School got back to my advisor and told her, "That's up to your department chair, we don't have specific rules about it here." Since the other still-available member of my prospective committee is the department chair, it looks like we're back on--although, that said, we still haven't figured out a time when the three of us can all meet at once. We have more latitude, though, since without our erstwhile third member (who was only available until the end of March), we can look at doing it sometime in the first couple weeks of April. Which would frankly be fine with me, because there's a lot to review. --G. -><- Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ zgryphon at that email service Google has Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam. |
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Verbena
Charter Member
987 posts |
Mar-13-22, 08:30 PM (EDT) |
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5. "RE: Adventures in Bureaucracy"
In response to message #3
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>>Eh, this is an MA, not a PhD. They should do it with two >>professors, or with a retired prof. > >After a week or two, the Graduate School got back to my advisor and >told her, "That's up to your department chair, we don't have specific >rules about it here." Since the other still-available member of my >prospective committee is the department chair, it looks like >we're back on--although, that said, we still haven't figured out a >time when the three of us can all meet at once. We have more >latitude, though, since without our erstwhile third member (who was >only available until the end of March), we can look at doing it >sometime in the first couple weeks of April. Which would frankly be >fine with me, because there's a lot to review. I'm very glad they at least saw there was bullshit and are trying to get around it! ------ Authors of our fates Orchestrate our fall from grace Poorest players on the stage Our defiance drives us straight to the edge |
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Tzukumori
Member since Jul-9-03
97 posts |
Apr-13-22, 05:52 AM (EDT) |
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16. "RE: Adventures in Bureaucracy"
In response to message #9
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Gryph: Congratulations! 卒業おめでとうございます! - T.Z. ================================================== Friends... they cherish one another’s hopes. They are kind to one another’s dreams. --Henry David Thoreau ================================================== |
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Gryphon
Charter Member
21481 posts |
Apr-13-22, 11:39 PM (EDT) |
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17. "It's Always Something dep't"
In response to message #6
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For the last couple of years, my advisor and I have been proceeding under the impression that the work I've done in digital scholarship, historical geography, and geographic information systems over the course of my graduate career would be acceptable as a substitute for the time-worn insistence that graduate students show functional knowledge of a foreign language. After all, to the academy at large, digital scholarship etc. is still a foreign language. Now we are engaged in a great civil war informed, with the rest of the paperwork in place, that it may not be after all. My advisor will be required to make the case for me by proxy at a sort of departmental star chamber next Monday. Apart from providing her with a précis of what I believe I've learned in that respect and what use I feel it has been to my Progression as a Scholar (which I have done), I have no part to take in this process myself. I'm particularly vexed by this because the GIS course that I'm taking this semester, for which I have no need of the credits, was characterized as a sort of capstone on this "technical alternate" requirement, which is why, once my oral exam was done, I didn't withdraw or convert it to an audit. The deadline for doing that has now passed, which means I'm on the hook for an elaborate final project and other work that may now be of no value. I'm in the strange position of being busier and under more deadline pressure now that I've passed the oral than I was before it. (And because we can't do anything about the potential next phase until this is decided. There's no point applying for the PhD program if I don't know for sure I'll have my MA in June. This has knock-on implications for fall enrollment and the prospect of further extending financial aid, the latter of which is a concern, since I've hit the cap for the academic level I'm at now.) So anyway, yeah. Upshot is, I'm pretty short on surplus capacity at the moment, despite what you may have thought--and I did think--would be a bit of a post-examination respite. Normal service will presumably be restored at some point, but that point is not now. :/ --G. -><- Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ zgryphon at that email service Google has Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam. |
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VoidRandom
Member since Dec-9-02
171 posts |
Apr-14-22, 02:24 AM (EDT) |
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18. "RE: It's Always Something dep't"
In response to message #17
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>For the last couple of years, my advisor and I have been proceeding >under the impression that the work I've done in digital scholarship, >historical geography, and geographic information systems over the >course of my graduate career would be acceptable as a substitute for >the time-worn insistence that graduate students show functional >knowledge of a foreign language. I'm actually somewhat surprised at this. The second language requirement has/had a particular rationale (1) and I personally don't see how the digital scholarship material (which I am not disparaging) could meet it. I hope this gets resolved in your favour, them being confused shouldn't affect your ability to graduate. (1) As an example, Columbia's rationale: > The foreign language requirement forms part of Columbia College’s mission to prepare students to be tomorrow’s conscientious and informed citizens. Knowledge of another’s language and literature is the most important way to begin to know a country and people. The study of a foreign language: > Sensitizes students to world cultures, simultaneously making them aware of their own culture within that context; > Introduces students to the differences in structure, grammar and syntax that distinguish two languages, and to the intimate links between language and cultural meaning; and > Contributes to the development of students’ critical, analytical and writing skills. -VR I learned more about English grammatical structure in my French classes than I learned in my English classes. "They copied all they could follow, but they couldn't copy my mind, And I left 'em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind."
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thorr_kan
Member since May-11-11
64 posts |
May-03-22, 11:17 PM (EDT) |
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23. "RE: It's Always Something dep't"
In response to message #22
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>> >>Oh. Wait, that's UF you. And I think it was determined he knew >>French? He certainly had no problems communicating with the residents >>of a certain time locked location... >> > >In 2405, he didn't know French at any level worthy of note. Sometime >between there and 2411 he picked up enough that he understands French >quite well, but his accent is somewhere around the level of the >metaphorical Spanish cow. > >Peter Eng >-- >"You speak French like a Spanish cow," is roughly equivalent to, "Your >accent is the worst I've ever heard. Please stop butchering my >language." The quote was "We appreciate the effort, especially from an American teenager. But you sound like a drunken Englishman, so please stop." Normandy region, France, July 1989. Said to me and my mate while we were punk high school students on a short bus tour of the region. But the request was made in good humor, and my accent WAS terrible, so all was well. We met a lot of people who were surprised Americans teenagers would make the effort, but never anybody who gave us any grief. A lot humor at our accent, some great laughs at group attempts to overcome a lack of vocabulary, and a fascinating two-hour conversation about shotguns and hunting in a small village gunsmith shop. The owner didn't have a lick of English and we hadn't a lick of technical vocabulary, but we had a lot fun comparing notes. So, if I can do it, so can you, Gryphon. Good luck! I have a blog; come see what I've created: https://thewhiteminotaur.wordpre ss.com/ |
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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
780 posts |
Mar-13-22, 03:55 AM (EDT) |
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4. "RE: Adventures in Bureaucracy"
In response to message #0
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>- One is deceased. I'm guessing a seance isn't an option.
-------------------------- CdrMike, Overwatch Reject "You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch |
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