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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-22-17, 01:42 PM (EDT)
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"shooter kitsch"
 
   For those of you who may never have been to an American surplus-slash-gun shop, just to give you an idea of the kind of things other than actual guns that are to be had at such establishments, the last time I was at my semi-local one I bought this.

Yup. It's a bottle opener. Made out of a .50-caliber Browning Machine Gun cartridge.

OK, they also have all the usual junk you would expect to find in a military surplus store, given that actual military surplus is curiously rare in the United States nowadays. The US armed forces just don't seem sell off their old crap as often (or, possibly, overacquire quite so luxuriously in the first place), as they used to, and most of the WWII- and Korea-vintage stuff you could find in these stores as recently as when I was a kid has long since dried up. There's some foreign equipment (although most of the big '90s surge of that sort of thing was late Cold War and has now mostly dried up as well), but the great bulk of what they sell in surplus stores these days isn't actually surplus, it's new stuff made specifically to be sold to the civilian market in such stores.

This faux-surplus kit includes repro M65 field jackets, shirts and cargo pants made on the '80s Battle Dress Uniform pattern (in my 20s, I pretty much only owned black, dark blue, or OD green BDU pants, because at the time they were tough and hell of cheap), backpacks and other load-carrying equipment that are more-or-less like the current or previous US Army standards (MOLLE and ALICE, respectively), socks, hats, and the ever-popular Vietam-era Boot, Hot Weather, Type I, Black. About the only item of genuine military surplus you're likely to find amid all of these is Mickey Mouse boots, which are popular in these parts for obvious reasons and of which the Army seems still to have a near-limitless supply to get rid of. Me, I don't think I'd be comfortable (in any sense) wearing somebody else's boots, but YMMV. My grandfather used to swear by the things.

Also to be found in such shops: a wide range of T-shirts decorated with bullishly patriotic slogans (THESE COLORS DON'T RUN) and/or aggressive expressions of right-wing sentiment (YOU CAN HAVE MY [UNLICENSED REPRODUCTION OF POPULAR FIREARMS MANUFACTURER'S LOGO] WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD, DEAD HAND*); bumper stickers decorated with the color patterns of the campaign ribbons for various wars (I was baffled by these as a kid, because they often provide zero context for what they are about); chemical hand- and foot-warmer packs; camping equipment; hats with the acronyms of various federal agencies on them (why anyone would want to be taken for an ATF agent is frankly beyond me), and of course the ever-popular State of Maine terrorist hunting license (issued on September 11, 2001, expires never).

You may be detecting a certain political bent in these establishments, although at least this particular one doesn't sell the shooting range targets with photographs of prominent Democratic politicians on them. (That happens.) The people who work at this one seem pretty chill, possibly because it is a large and successful establishment that gets a lot of tourist traffic and, as such, its staffers are aware that outright alienating half of the public is bad for business.

In fact, all of the commercial shooting ranges I've been to have had pretty laid-back staff. One of the guys who worked at the place Zoner and I frequented out in California was a Vietnam vet and personally somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun (to borrow a phrase J. Michael Straczynski once used to describe the late Jerry Doyle), but he was a classy guy and never got fussed about people who weren't. I once saw him deal very diplomatically indeed with a range patron who turned out to be so monumentally incompetent that he was a distinct danger to himself and everyone around him (including me). Have I done an Elder Days Story Time about that? I feel like I must have at some point.

--G.
* Is it just me, or does this saying make no practical sense? I mean, I get what they're trying to imply, but seriously, is any Sinister Government Agent who is willing to kill a citizen in order to seize a firearm going to leave it until the corpse is cold and rigor has set in to collect said firearm? I think not.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: shooter kitsch Peter Eng Mar-22-17 1
     EDST: The Range in California Gryphonadmin Mar-23-17 9
         RE: EDST: The Range in California MoonEyes Mar-23-17 10
         RE: EDST: The Range in California Terminus Est Mar-24-17 11
             RE: EDST: The Range in California Gryphonadmin Mar-24-17 12
             RE: EDST: The Range in California Wiregeek Mar-25-17 13
  RE: shooter kitsch Peter Eng Mar-22-17 2
     RE: shooter kitsch ebony14 Mar-22-17 6
         RE: shooter kitsch Pasha Mar-22-17 7
             RE: shooter kitsch Gryphonadmin Mar-22-17 8
  RE: shooter kitsch eriktown Mar-22-17 3
     RE: shooter kitsch Pasha Mar-22-17 4
         RE: shooter kitsch eriktown Mar-22-17 5

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Peter Eng
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Mar-22-17, 02:16 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: shooter kitsch"
In response to message #0
 
   >I once saw him deal very diplomatically indeed with a range patron who
>turned out to be so monumentally incompetent that he was a distinct
>danger to himself and everyone around him (including me). Have I done
>an Elder Days Story Time about that? I feel like I must have at some
>point.
>

Not as far as I can recall.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-23-17, 01:49 AM (EDT)
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9. "EDST: The Range in California"
In response to message #1
 
   >>I once saw him deal very diplomatically indeed with a range patron who
>>turned out to be so monumentally incompetent that he was a distinct
>>danger to himself and everyone around him (including me). Have I done
>>an Elder Days Story Time about that? I feel like I must have at some
>>point.
>>
>
>Not as far as I can recall.

Hmm, OK. Surprising. Well, here's the background on that. As I mentioned, this range was (and still is, I believe) in Milpitas, California, which is in the part of the East Bay that's south of Oakland but north of San Jose. That meant they got a lot of walk-in traffic from tech companies—San Jose had a bunch, and is where the road to Santa Cruz starts from, and Silicon Valley is more or less just across the bay. Come to think of it, that might have at least partly explained the less-than-crazy atmosphere of the place, similar to the one mentioned elsewhere in the thread that's not far from Bungie.

One of the things that used to happen on a fairly regular basis was that people from the tech companies would bring foreign visitors in to do a little shootin'. This was legal at the time (I am given to understand that in California, which has tightened up its gun laws a lot since I lived there, it no longer is), and very popular with some firms' overseas partners, many of whom came from countries where the shooting sports are either completely or effectively (by making them so hard to get involved in that it's not worth it) banned.

Such as Japan.

Now, there's a thing about Japan, which a lot of us here are probably aware of from the behind-the-scenes material on series like Gunsmith Cats and Appleseed, and that is this: guns are pretty much completely outlawed there for Ordinary People, and have been since the end of World War II, but to at least part of the general public they are a source of endless fascination. Some folks in Japan are obsessed with guns and American gun culture the way some folks in the States are obsessed with Japanese entertainment media...

... but everything, everything they know about guns, they got from books and magazine articles.

What this meant on at least one occasion when I was at the range was that a group of Japanese businessmen arrived, under the ostensible supervision of a harried-looking young woman from their host company. She clearly didn't want to be there—if I had to guess, she'd had no contact with the shooting scene in her life before, had been told to show them around to whatever they wanted to see, and expected to be asked to take them to Alcatraz or something, but instead they had insisted on going to a gun shop of all goddam things—and was entirely out of her depth.

The Vietnam-vet range officer I mentioned earlier—let's call him Rob, on account of that was his name—was in the shop area, in the process of convincing me that I needed to open my home to a very fine Ruger .357 Magnum revolver I now wish I hadn't sold later, when they arrived. When he saw them come into the store, he closed his eyes and made the kind of sound that a man makes when he's just suffered an injury, and he doesn't really feel it yet but he knows it is really going to hurt in a minute. There were four or five of them, middle-aged guys in suits—sararimen right out of Central Casting—and they were all very, very excited. Like, the kind of excited you or I might be if we had just been told that we were going to get to drive a tank.

While Rob, with a look of deep dread on his face, went off to conduct the Range Briefing through an interpreter, I retired to one of the dozen or so lanes of the range to spend some quality time with my new revolver, which I was going to have to leave behind when I went home (there being a mandatory waiting period on handgun purchases in California even in those relatively halcyon days*). I was sort of hoping that I'd finish my business and be able to move on before the visitors cleared the briefing stage and entered the range itself.

However, the Ruger GP-100 is many things, but "speedy to load" is not one of them (unless in comparison with something like a Nagant), and because of the waiting period I had decided to get in some fairly serious trigger time on it, so I had a hundred rounds of (.38 Special—I'm not crazy) ammunition to get through. I was still working on it when they came in.

Well, it was terrifying. Either the salient points of the safety briefing had been lost in translation, or (I think more likely) they had gone in one ear and sailed cleanly out the other in the gentlemen's excitement to be finally living the dream, because they did everything wrong you can do on a commercial firing range that doesn't involve actually shooting anyone. They loaded before they were told to. A couple of them didn't seem to realize they had loaded their guns. They commenced fire without permission, too. They shot at each other's targets, first by accident and then because they thought it was a funny prank.

Most alarmingly of all, when one of them made a particularly good shot, he backed out of his range stall, turned to address the colleague next to him, and declaimed excitedly (what I can only assume was the Japanese for "Did you see that shit?! I am the fucking bomb, homes, as you very well know"), gesticulating for emphasis. With the hand holding the gun. The very much not empty, very much not on safe, very much not experiencing anything like trigger discipline gun. (Which was a Desert Eagle, because of course it was.) People (including myself, and that is not something you will hear of happening very often) were diving for cover.

Rob didn't freak out. He didn't make any sudden moves. He didn't even shout at anyone. Instead, in as low and calm a voice as one can use when speaking through hearing protectors, he explained to the man that what he had just done was the single stupidest thing he had ever seen anyone do—ever!—and he was in the US Army in the '60s, so that was a high damn bar; that the lot of them had demonstrated very poor range etiquette throughout their visit despite his patient attempts to correct their behavior; and that, as a result, they were all going to have to leave now. He did all this very calmly, very deliberately, very diplomatically, and by the end, the Japanese gentlemen were apologizing profusely and basically thanking him for throwing them out of his establishment. (Again, something may have been lost in translation.)

The poor woman from whatever company was hosting them was mortified. After they'd all bustled out to the car (evidently quite satisfied with their adventure in spite of everything), she stayed behind to settle their bill and was so upset that Rob had to talk her down too. Which he did, to such an extent that when she left it was with an appointment to come back the next week and take their basic handgun course. For all I know, she's a professional competitive shooter and they've been married for 18 years now. That kind of thing seemed to happen around Rob.

So yeah. That was kind of an alarming day at the office.

Incidents like that one aside, I miss that place. When I lived out there, I went to that range often enough that they knew me, and would rent me a gun even when I came in alone (which they would not normally do because, as Rob explained once, too many people were coming in alone but leaving with a couple of guys from the Medical Examiner's office).

This was the same place where the guy with the ridiculous customized Colt Anaconda came in one day and unwittingly made a complete spectacle of himself. I'm sure I've talked about this. The Anaconda was a .44 Magnum large-frame revolver; he'd bought one, then had it fitted out as what he cheerfully declared was "the ultimate concealed carry piece". Which meant, basically, that he'd found some prideless gunsmith somewhere willing to fit it with little tiny grips, bob the hammer spur so that it was effectively double-action only, and cut the barrel to the legal minimum (which I believe was 1½").

The result was notable mainly for the astonishing amount of noise and muzzle flash it could produce, and the fact that its owner genuinely seemed to believe he was Doing Really Well when he could get, on average, two out of six rounds on a silhouette target at a range of 25 feet. By the time he was done, the floor in front of his range stall was covered in a distinctly visible dark grey fan of unburned powder, ejected from the top-of-the-line, max-power ammunition he was using. We, uh, we all mocked that guy pretty hard when he packed up and left. But hey, we concluded, he seemed happy, and it wasn't our money. Or our wrist.

--G.
* odd as it is to think of anytime during the "no magazines over 10 rounds anywhere in the country" period as "halcyon", shooty-wise
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
587 posts
Mar-23-17, 05:48 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: EDST: The Range in California"
In response to message #9
 
   Powder-spray-boy I had heard of, yeah. Moron Japanese is a new one, though, I have to say. Wonder if there is an expression in Japanese similar to "katana-plonker"....


...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"


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Terminus Est
Member since Nov-5-04
454 posts
Mar-24-17, 06:32 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: EDST: The Range in California"
In response to message #9
 
   Two of six at twenty-five? I'm reasonably sure I could do better than that, and my experience with handguns is basically 'This end makes the bangybang, do not point it at people or animals.' Of course, I wouldn't touch the piece he achieved that dubious record with with a ten-foot pole, but I'm pretty sure that'd be the reaction of anyone sane enough to post on these forums regularly.

Rifles and shotguns on the other hand, I'm somewhat better with. Or I was the last time I got to shoot one, which was... ten years ago, ish? Man, I really need to talk to one of my brothers about borrowing one of theirs. I actually like target shooting, and the loss of the ability to do so regularly is one of the more painful concessions I've had to make to my disability. My experiences with the Shoulder Buster aside, I even liked flinging lead at clay pigeons.


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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-24-17, 07:35 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: EDST: The Range in California"
In response to message #11
 
   >Two of six at twenty-five? I'm reasonably sure I could do
>better than that, and my experience with handguns is basically 'This
>end makes the bangybang, do not point it at people or animals.'

Reminds me of the '80s John Candy film Armed and Dangerous, in which he and Eugene Levy play security guards. There's a scene where a character played by Meg Ryan is giving a new class of recruits their firearms training, which consists of holding up a Smith & Wesson revolver and saying something to the effect of, "Remember, when you pull the trigger, the bullets come out of the gun going very, very fast, so make sure it is pointing away from you."

--G.
"You are now armed guards. God help us all."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Wiregeek
Member since Mar-13-14
103 posts
Mar-25-17, 00:48 AM (EDT)
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13. "RE: EDST: The Range in California"
In response to message #11
 
   Sure, it's no stretch. With a decent place to sit, I can put 7 out of 11 on target at ~100 yds, into a 1 meter square steel.

But that's with a gun that hasn't been _intentionally_ made inaccurate, hard to handle, and difficult to aim.


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Peter Eng
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Mar-22-17, 02:19 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: shooter kitsch"
In response to message #0
 
   >YOU CAN HAVE
>MY [UNLICENSED REPRODUCTION OF POPULAR FIREARMS MANUFACTURER'S
>LOGO]
WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD, DEAD HAND
*
>
>* Is it just me, or does this saying make no practical
>sense? I mean, I get what they're trying to imply, but seriously, is
>any Sinister Government Agent who is willing to kill a citizen in
>order to seize a firearm going to leave it until the corpse is cold
>and rigor has set in to collect said firearm? I think not.

>

The only way I can see this making sense involves a multiple-person firefight, and the wearer of the shirt being an early lesson about when a person should keep his sprocking head down.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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ebony14
Member since Jul-11-11
384 posts
Mar-22-17, 04:03 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: shooter kitsch"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-17 AT 04:07 PM (EDT)
 
>>YOU CAN HAVE
>>MY [UNLICENSED REPRODUCTION OF POPULAR FIREARMS MANUFACTURER'S
>>LOGO]
WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD, DEAD HAND
*
>>
>>* Is it just me, or does this saying make no practical
>>sense? I mean, I get what they're trying to imply, but seriously, is
>>any Sinister Government Agent who is willing to kill a citizen in
>>order to seize a firearm going to leave it until the corpse is cold
>>and rigor has set in to collect said firearm? I think not.

>>
>
>The only way I can see this making sense involves a multiple-person
>firefight, and the wearer of the shirt being an early lesson about
>when a person should keep his sprocking head down.

I remember a comedian commenting on the statement when Charlton Heston uttered it on camera at the NRA convention in 2000, wondering if there would be a raffle to see who could pull the gun from his cold, dead hands, and would doing so make that person the Once and Future King of the NRA.

Of course, one of my local shops is listed in the Yellow Pages/on Google as "Second Amendment Sports." Which, I gotta tell you, doesn't make me feel too terribly interested in going in to talk to someone about getting my shotgun serviced*. Anyone who's THAT enthusiastic about the fact that his sport is protected by the Constitution sounds like they may have been drinking the Kool-Aid. But I could be wrong.

(*It's one that I inherited, hasn't been fired in about 20 years, and I have practically no experience in firearms maintenance. I'd like a professional to look it over before I start to relearn how to use it, so I don't blow my face off the first time I take a shot at a clay pigeon.)

Ebony the Black Dragon

"Life is like an anole. Sometimes it's green. Sometimes it's brown. But it's always a small Caribbean lizard."


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Pasha
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Mar-22-17, 04:22 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: shooter kitsch"
In response to message #6
 
  
>Of course, one of my local shops is listed in the Yellow Pages/on
>Google as "Second Amendment Sports." Which, I gotta tell you, doesn't
>make me feel too terribly interested in going in to talk to someone
>about getting my shotgun serviced*. Anyone who's THAT enthusiastic
>about the fact that his sport is protected by the Constitution sounds
>like they may have been drinking the Kool-Aid. But I could be wrong.

I want to like springfield arms stuff? but their motto of "Protecting your legacy" is just a little too on the nose for me.

--
-Pasha
"Don't change the subject"
"Too slow, already did."


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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-22-17, 05:21 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: shooter kitsch"
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-17 AT 07:23 PM (EDT)
 
>I want to like springfield arms stuff? but their motto of "Protecting
>your legacy" is just a little too on the nose for me.

It's worse than that, it's "Defend Your Legacy", phrased as an imperative to the reader. If it had a gerund in it I could at least tell myself they're talking about the fact that they're keeping the M14 (ish) in production and still making a milspec-style 1911 (though even that would just be me not wanting to look directly at the Zealous Glow).

(In a similar vein, although Sturm, Ruger & Company's current overall strapline ("Rugged, Reliable Firearms") isn't objectionable and I'm a bit sentimentally attached to some of their early products, the fact that they named one of their product lines "American" so they could advertise it with "anything else would be un-American" bugs the shit out of me. It's precious and a bit assholey at the same time. Ugh.)

I'm also annoyed by Springfield's pretense of being "since 1794", when the only thing they have in common with the arsenal that was founded in the 1700s is that they took its name when the government closed it down. I think if I were doing NXE now rather than in the '90s, the compact .45 pistol DJ Croft carries would be a Detonics Combat Master rather than a Springfield V10. And not just because a Combat Master would probably cost me about half as much to get one of today than a V10. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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eriktown
Member since Jan-28-06
171 posts
Mar-22-17, 03:09 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: shooter kitsch"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-17 AT 03:12 PM (EDT)
 
This reminds me how lucky I am to have a local range that isn't chock full o'crazy; the guy in the lane next to you often speaks Hindu and works at Microsoft, and the only posters on the walls are HALO promos signed by the Bungie team, since that's where they send people to learn about guns. They also have a professional and surprisingly gender-balanced staff.

Compare that to the place across the way, which was shut down for a while a couple of years ago because they cheaped out on their air filter system and the place was full of lead, and where if you're not wearing a MAGA cap and speaking fluent bubba, you can't get someone to sell you ammo, let alone sign into the range.

Guess which one does a lot more business...

Edit: Also, re:
> (in my 20s, I pretty much only owned black, dark blue, or OD green BDU pants, because at the time they were tough and hell of cheap)

I did the same. I have found that the price of BDU pants has been skyrocketing because of the growing mall ninja army. I didn't figure it out until I read "Zero History", in which Gibson helpfully points out the connection.


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Pasha
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Mar-22-17, 03:46 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: shooter kitsch"
In response to message #3
 
   >This reminds me how lucky I am to have a local range that isn't chock
>full o'crazy; the guy in the lane next to you often speaks Hindu and
>works at Microsoft, and the only posters on the walls are HALO promos
>signed by the Bungie team, since that's where they send people to
>learn about guns. They also have a professional and surprisingly
>gender-balanced staff.

West Coast Armory?

--
-Pasha
"Don't change the subject"
"Too slow, already did."


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eriktown
Member since Jan-28-06
171 posts
Mar-22-17, 03:50 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: shooter kitsch"
In response to message #4
 
  
>West Coast Armory?

Bingo. Really love going there. I'm just sad Wade's is closer (but I would never go back to Wade's).


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