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Subject: "Unintentional offenses" Archived thread - Read only
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laudre
Member since Nov-14-06
428 posts		 Aug-07-13, 04:44 PM (EDT)
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"Unintentional offenses"
 
   LAST EDITED ON Aug-07-13 AT 04:44 PM (EDT)
 
I tried to post this as a comment over in G's LJ, but it kept rejecting it as spam. I figure it's worth saying, though:

You're quite correct that there's been a lot of changes to social discourse over the past several years. It's meant that a lot of things that marginalized people just sort of rolled with, or bore with gritted teeth... they don't want to have to do that any more. It also means that a lot of things that the privileged group -- here in the US, that's (functionally) heterosexual, cisgendered, white males -- once thought were acceptable and just jokes (or whatever) have been revealed as, well, not.

You didn't meant to cause offense. Sure. We get that. We know that. But we're putting down a line and saying we're going to stop pretending we're okay with $OFFENSIVE_THING. (In my case, that's "jokes" related to gender identity and sexual identity, in terms of personal stuff.) You don't have to explain that it was never a problem before, because we know you never knew it was a problem before. You just want your dinner, so to speak.

If you want to save those friendships? Just apologize. Try to understand that it was offensive, and why, even if it was not your intention to offend.

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Unintentional offenses Gryphonadmin Aug-07-13 1
     RE: Unintentional offenses laudre Aug-07-13 2
     RE: Unintentional offenses Mercutio Aug-07-13 3
     RE: Unintentional offenses Offsides Aug-08-13 4

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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22420 posts		 Aug-07-13, 05:13 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Unintentional offenses"
In response to message #0
 
   Well, see, that's mainly what confuses me, is that it wasn't about any of those things. I'm not COMPLETELY out of touch like my father who does not understand why everyone doesn't laugh at e.g. raghead jokes any longer.

But hey, thanks for assuming.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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laudre
Member since Nov-14-06
428 posts		 Aug-07-13, 05:23 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Unintentional offenses"
In response to message #1
 
   >But hey, thanks for assuming.

I made no assumptions. I don't know what happened, nor do I expect you to talk about it. The point is that it you didn't know it was offensive, but you still caused offense. Apologize, learn from it, and move on.

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
942 posts		 Aug-07-13, 09:00 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Unintentional offenses"
In response to message #1
 
   Huh. I didn't know Ben -had- a livejournal. Go figure.

If I'm not out of line commenting here rather than there, as I haven't glanced at my LJ account since the Zutara Shipping Wars of 2008, I'll take a stab at unpacking "mansplaining". Fair warning; there's no hard and fast definition of it, it's kind of still being worked out.

It's a bit more complex than just not being That Guy. It's a specific behavior having to do with privilege. I know you know exactly what privilege is; I've seen you use the phrase "Well, that's mighty white of you."

Basically, mansplaining involves a dude explaining to a lady (or ladies) something that 1) they already know, and are in fact intimately familiar with, in a manner that implies he is correcting some tragic gap in their education, or 2) trying to explain away something that said lady or ladies have a problem with, usually in a condescending and paternalistic way.

If you've ever met, say, an IT guy who assumes that every man who comes to him for help has a certain base level of technical knowledge, but whenever it's a woman, he launches into an explanation of how to use the mouse and what capslock does? That explanation is mansplaining.

Similarly, if you've ever met somebody who is prepared to explain at great length to women how, say, catcalling is really just a compliment men give to women and not a form of harassment, no really, he can prove that scientifically most women like it, you guys, he has charts and knows about evolutionary psychology and everything, that dude is also mansplaining.

Rule of thumb: if a conversation seems at all problematic to you, try and envision it happening any other way at all than a man explaining stuff to a woman. If you absolutely can't, good chance mansplaining is happening.

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Offsides
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1264 posts		 Aug-08-13, 01:46 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Unintentional offenses"
In response to message #1
 
   Unfortunately, it's everyone's right to be offended by anything and everything, and there's nothing you can do if they choose to go that route. If you want to try and salvage the relationship, tell them exactly how you feel and see if they're willing to meet you half way. Either the want the same thing, and you'll eventually work it out, or they don't, in which case there's nothing you can do and it's not worth the energy.

This is why I try so hard not to offend unintentionally - it can be a real bear to fix things when there's seemingly no common ground. (OTOH, I have no problem offending someone intentionally if they give me reason to...)

Good luck!

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


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