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Eyrie Productions, Unlimited

Subject: "Scifi or Fantasy" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences Undocumented Features General Topic #6
Reading Topic #6
StaticdashPulse
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Apr-09-01, 09:38 AM (EST)
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"Scifi or Fantasy"
 
   I was going to ask this about the whole UF universe, but I hate to ask such a general question in light of the fact that each story is so unique. That said, I will back my question up and ask it specifically about UF Core #1.

If UF #1 a science fiction story or is it a fantasy story (for those of you who draw distinctions. Personally, I don't, but this seemed to good a question not to present)? I ask simply because of "Tenchi Muyo" (the OVA, if memroy serves). I read an interview with its creator and he said that, and I'm paraphrasing from memory here, I apologize, that because so much of the technology in Tenchi is near magic (plus Tenchi begin a legendary warrior, etc.) he considers his story to be fantasy more than scifi.

Anyway, I was just curious. As I stated above, I don't draw a distinction, but this was a question that I thought might be fun to see answers to.

Static-Pulse
http://www.darkbeast.com
http://levelx.cjb.net


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Scifi or Fantasy megazone Apr-09-01 1
  RE: Scifi or Fantasy Gryphonadmin Apr-09-01 2
     RE: Scifi or Fantasy Wedge Apr-09-01 3
         RE: Scifi or Fantasy Gryphonadmin Apr-09-01 4
             RE: Scifi or Fantasy Wedge Apr-09-01 5
         RE: Scifi or Fantasy Mephronmoderator Apr-12-01 28
             RE: Scifi or Fantasy Astynax Apr-12-01 29
                 RE: Scifi or Fantasy Mephronmoderator Apr-12-01 30
                     RE: Scifi or Fantasy Astynax Apr-12-01 31
                 RE: Scifi or Fantasy megazone Apr-12-01 33
                     RE: Scifi or Fantasy Gryphonadmin Apr-12-01 34
                         RE: Scifi or Fantasy megazone Apr-12-01 35
                             RE: Scifi or Fantasy Gryphonadmin Apr-12-01 36
                                 RE: Scifi or Fantasy megazone Apr-12-01 37
                     RE: Scifi or Fantasy Astynax Apr-13-01 52
             RE: Scifi or Fantasy Ebony Apr-13-01 55
  I have to say it... Astynax Apr-09-01 6
     RE: I have to say it... Gryphonadmin Apr-09-01 7
         RE: I have to say it... Astynax Apr-09-01 8
         RE: I have to say it... Laudre Apr-09-01 9
  RE: Scifi or Fantasy Chris Redfield Apr-09-01 10
     RE: Scifi or Fantasy Perko Apr-10-01 11
         RE: Scifi or Fantasy Chris Redfield Apr-10-01 12
             RE: Scifi or Fantasy Perko Apr-10-01 13
                 RE: Scifi or Fantasy Ardaniel Apr-10-01 14
                     Better without social commentary lemon Apr-11-01 17
                         RE: Better without social commentary Ardaniel Apr-11-01 18
                             RE: Better without social commentary Astynax Apr-11-01 19
                         RE: Better without social commentary Gryphonadmin Apr-11-01 20
                             RE: Better without social commentary lemon Apr-11-01 21
                                 RE: Better without social commentary Gryphonadmin Apr-11-01 22
                                     HEY! lemon Apr-12-01 39
                                         RE: HEY! Gryphonadmin Apr-12-01 42
                                             RE: HEY! Khirsah Jun-23-01 57
                                             RE: HEY! Matrix Dragon Jun-28-01 60
                                             RE: HEY! Khirsah Jun-28-01 61
                                             RE: HEY! remandeteam Jun-24-01 59
                                 RE: Better without social commentary Astynax Apr-11-01 24
                                     RE: Better without social commentary lemon Apr-12-01 38
                             RE: Better without social commentary Astynax Apr-11-01 23
                             Kids can be *EVIL* was RE: Better without social commen... Captain Willard Jun-24-01 58
                         RE: Better without social commentary ejheckathorn Apr-12-01 40
                             RE: Better without social commentary Gryphonadmin Apr-12-01 41
                                 RE: Better without social commentary ejheckathorn Apr-12-01 43
                                     RE: Better without social commentary Gryphonadmin Apr-12-01 44
                                         RE: Better without social commentary ejheckathorn Apr-13-01 46
                                             I read that article... lemon Apr-13-01 48
                                             RE: I read that article... Astynax Apr-13-01 54
                                             RE: Better without social commentary Gryphonadmin Apr-13-01 49
                                     RE: Better without social commentary Astynax Apr-13-01 53
                                 RE: Better without social commentary ejheckathorn Apr-12-01 45
                                     RE: Better without social commentary megazone Apr-13-01 47
     RE: Scifi or Fantasy Astynax Apr-10-01 16
  RE: Scifi or Fantasy jcfiala Apr-10-01 15
  RE: Scifi or Fantasy remandeteam Apr-11-01 25
     RE: Scifi or Fantasy yostinso Apr-12-01 26
     RE: Scifi or Fantasy Perko Apr-12-01 27
         RE: Scifi or Fantasy Gryphonadmin Apr-12-01 32
             RE: Scifi or Fantasy Derek Andersen Apr-13-01 50
                 RE: Scifi or Fantasy megazone Apr-13-01 51
                 Right on! StaticdashPulse Apr-16-01 56

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megazone
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Apr-09-01, 10:58 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #0
 
   >If UF #1 a science fiction story or is it a fantasy story

It's a sci-fi fantasy. ;-)

(It's a floor wax *and* a dessert topping!"

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-09-01, 05:52 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #0
 
   >If UF #1 a science fiction story or is it a fantasy story

Undocumented Features is a rock and roll fable, baby.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Wedge
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Apr-09-01, 06:01 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #2
 
   >>If UF #1 a science fiction story or is it a fantasy story
>
>Undocumented Features is a rock and roll fable, baby.


I thought that was Rock and Rule...


---------------------------
"I think we used too much."
---------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-09-01, 06:12 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #3
 
   >>Undocumented Features is a rock and roll fable, baby.
>
>I thought that was Rock and Rule...

Streets of Fire, actually, but who's to say there's only one? :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Wedge
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Apr-09-01, 06:15 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #4
 
   >>>Undocumented Features is a rock and roll fable, baby.
>>
>>I thought that was Rock and Rule...
>
>Streets of Fire, actually, but who's to say there's only one?
>:)

Point.

---------------------------
"I think we used too much."
---------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company


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Mephronmoderator
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Apr-12-01, 02:06 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #3
 
   >>>If UF #1 a science fiction story or is it a fantasy story
>>
>>Undocumented Features is a rock and roll fable, baby.
>
>I thought that was Rock and Rule...

I wanna see the WDF take on Mok.

Gryphon dealing with Stretch and Zip has serious warped potential...

Megazone and Mok can have a Dark Attitude Contest.

Truss saves the day by rewiring the synthesizer into a toaster and Mok is destroyed by being hit with a toaster shooting 50,000 SRPM (Slices of Rye Per Minute).

It could work...

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
"I think I sprained my anterior lobe just thinking about it."


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Astynax
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Apr-12-01, 02:30 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #28
 
   >
>Megazone and Mok can have a Dark Attitude Contest.
>

You know, that I never got. The Real Life Zoner being dark one could understand, life happens, some people get dark <I know I have an unhealthy attraction to all things black>. But, well, in UF, he's an immortal, and he has a hottie madly in love with him. I guess I'm a simple creature, I'd be monsterously happy in a similar situation. <But then, in UF 4, Zoner2 did make a note of 'it's my own fault for writing myself as such a dark dickweed' so I guess this issue has already been noticed;) >

>Truss saves the day by rewiring the synthesizer into a toaster and Mok
>is destroyed by being hit with a toaster shooting 50,000 SRPM (Slices
>of Rye Per Minute).
>

::Mt. Dew | nose > keyboard::

owie. That's happening too often around here. :)

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Mephronmoderator
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Apr-12-01, 03:45 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #29
 
   >>Truss saves the day by rewiring the synthesizer into a toaster and Mok
>>is destroyed by being hit with a toaster shooting 50,000 SRPM (Slices
>>of Rye Per Minute).
>
>::Mt. Dew | nose > keyboard::
>
>owie. That's happening too often around here. :)

w00t! I love doing that....

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
"I think I sprained my anterior lobe just thinking about it."


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Astynax
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Apr-12-01, 04:23 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #30
 
   >>>Truss saves the day by rewiring the synthesizer into a toaster and Mok
>>>is destroyed by being hit with a toaster shooting 50,000 SRPM (Slices
>>>of Rye Per Minute).
>>
>>::Mt. Dew | nose > keyboard::
>>
>>owie. That's happening too often around here. :)
>
>w00t! I love doing that....
>

The image of a toast spewing weapon is just too much.... and 50,000 per minute!?


-={(Astynax)}=-
<luckily not drinking this time>


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megazone
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Apr-12-01, 05:03 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #29
 
   >You know, that I never got. The Real Life Zoner being dark one
>could understand, life happens, some people get dark <I know I have an
>unhealthy attraction to all things black>. But, well, in UF, he's an
>immortal, and he has a hottie madly in love with him.

That's how I saw/see me in that situation. I've got a dark personality - I lean towards cynicism, sarcasm, and bitterness. I go through extended periods of depression and short bursts of manic energy. I used to slip into VERY deep depressions a lot more often than I do now, but I still do from time to time.

For me happiness tends to be fleeting - I haven't been in a solid relationship since 1994 (too many affairs, flings, and what have you for a few years after that, then I picked up a stalker and that put me off any relationships for a year and a half or so, and only a year or so ago did I start testing those waters again), but even when I was in that one (and I still love her madly, it just wasn't meant to be, I think of her a lot) when I was away from her my mood would slip. Being with her definitely made me happy, but I think in some ways in only served to toss the rest into starker contrast. I have trouble just accepting good things in my life.

Anyway, Zoner in UF also has *massive* responsibilities. Yes, he's immortal, but that's not a picnic. Think of how many friends he's seen die, how many innocent lives lost in wars, all the missed opportunities and regrets he's piled up. Knowing me, and my personality, I would be very concious of those things. The way my mind works I still regularly think of stupid shit I did in grade school, people I hurt, etc, that I wish I had never done. That's the kind of thing my mind dwells on when not otherwise occupied... And benig a Detian he has perfect recall - I hate to think of the dreams and nightmares he has on bad days...

I'm a loner, and have been for most of my life. Being my friend is probably hell, and I really don't understand why people do it. I'm really rather anti-social, and a hermit (though not as much as Gryph and some of my other friends). I tend not to go to parties, etc, even if invited. I'm just not
comfortable in those situations. I think that Zoner, given 400 years, is probably like me - only moreso. He has friends whom he is *fiercely* loyal too, and enemies who *hate* him - and everyone else is just kinda there until they end up in one of the those two groups.

Because that's how I am. I'm not as giving as I used to be - I severely fucked up my life a few times by overextending myself mentally, emotionally, financially, etc, to help out people I care about. I learned the hard way to impose limits on myself, because if I burn myself out I'm no good to myself or anyone else. I used to want to please everyone all the time, and that messed me up and just made me unhappy most of the time, so I learned not to care what everyone thinks. I care what a few people think - friends, respected peers, people who have the power to mess with my life (ie, try to phrase things politely to the officer who just pulled me over, etc). But in general I'm who I am and people either like it or they don't. So in UF I'm open with my circle of friends - which is probably fairly large after 400 years, and with a Detian brain maybe I actually remember to call or write from time to time...

I have the love of a wonderful woman, something I know makes me happy in real life, and something that, in absence, leaves a hole, and yes, that makes me happy. But that is only part of life - I think Zoner's relationship with Yuri is something of a refuge for the both of them. In their daily lives they deal with war - death and destruction - and their own actions, directly or indirectly, have lead to the deaths of countless people over the centuries. Zoner has had to send a great many people into battle, knowing many will die. I'm sure that keeps him awake at night and it weighs on him heavily at times. Most of Zoner's life is pretty heavy, with a mix of bright spots - his friends and loved ones.

Post-Twilight Zoner will be rather different. You might've noticed all of the main cast are basically getting new origin stories. Time to refresh them, give them some new traits and mannerisms.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Gryphonadmin
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19264 posts
Apr-12-01, 05:19 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #33
 
   >I'm a loner, and have been for most of my life. Being my friend is
>probably hell, and I really don't understand why people do it. I'm
>really rather anti-social, and a hermit (though not as much as Gryph
>and some of my other friends).

Wait.

I'm more a hermit than you?

I think not.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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megazone
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Apr-12-01, 05:44 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #34
 
   >>I'm a loner, and have been for most of my life. Being my friend is
>>probably hell, and I really don't understand why people do it. I'm
>>really rather anti-social, and a hermit (though not as much as Gryph
>>and some of my other friends).
>
>Wait.
>
>I'm more a hermit than you?
>
>I think not.

Dude, when was the last time you went to a movie? ;-) I know you don't like bars, but I go to those from time to time too. You never go to things like the AoD Boston gatherings. Just getting you to go out to dinner and not order in can be taxing... ;-)

Just lately you've started gaming, but for a long time your routine was work, home, work, home, lather, rinse, repeat.

I think I go to more things in general (cons, social gatherings, parties, bars, company functions, etc.).

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Gryphonadmin
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19264 posts
Apr-12-01, 05:51 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #35
 
   >Dude, when was the last time you went to a movie?

Um, the last time there was one out I felt like spending nine bucks to see? Let's see, I think that would have been Phantom Menace.

>You never
>go to things like the AoD Boston gatherings.

Why would I go to one of those? I'm not on AoD.

You're the one stays in his room when company comes.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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megazone
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Apr-12-01, 06:23 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #36
 
   >You're the one stays in his room when company comes.

Not all the time, this past time:

1. The living room was full.
2. I was a bit preoccupied thinking about my dying grandmother and I wasn't in the mood for banter.

You may have noticed I've been a bit on edge lately (like snapping at Truss last night - sorry about that Truss). I'm not sleeping well and it keeps gnawing at me... Circumstances are a wee bit unusual presently. I'm a bit ragged.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Astynax
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717 posts
Apr-13-01, 12:37 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #33
 
   <not quoted for the sake of space>

1. Whoa. I had NOT expected that sort of response <I expected, if not to be ignored, to be smacked down. I tend to simply speak my mind, and this causes trouble usually>

2. Thanks for the insight, both personal and into the characters.

3. New origin stories? I hadn't quite seen it that way. Perhaps re-origin stories... a way to say "this event here just took character X and shook them hard. Be prepared for odd shit down the road" <I guess I'm nit picking, to me a 'new' origin story is what bad writers do when they change continuity {see Tenchi Muyo vs. Tenchi TV}. None of the Eyrie crew, IMHO, fits that category, although when I sit down and reread a story here or there I am tempted to send email asking which version of things is right when there are conflicts {I'm a nit picker, sure me, hate me, or ignore me;) } >

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Ebony
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Apr-13-01, 06:28 PM (EST)
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55. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #28
 
   >>>>If UF #1 a science fiction story or is it a fantasy story
>>>
>>>Undocumented Features is a rock and roll fable, baby.
>>
>>I thought that was Rock and Rule...
>
>I wanna see the WDF take on Mok.
>
>Gryphon dealing with Stretch and Zip has serious warped potential...
>
>Megazone and Mok can have a Dark Attitude Contest.
>
>Truss saves the day by rewiring the synthesizer into a toaster and Mok
>is destroyed by being hit with a toaster shooting 50,000 SRPM (Slices
>of Rye Per Minute).
>
>It could work...

We must remember what this movie teaches us:

1. To summon a demon, you need Debbie Harry.

2. To banish a demon, you need Debbie Harry and Iggy Pop.

Corrolary: If you are going to summon a demon, kill Iggy Pop first.


Ebony the Black Dragon
aka Draco Draconis Ebenium
known to Uncle Mikey as Aaron F. Johnson,
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
http://www.lrgames.com


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Astynax
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717 posts
Apr-09-01, 09:26 PM (EST)
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6. "I have to say it..."
In response to message #0
 
   'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.'

<If anyone who can tell me who said that, I will be very grateful>

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Gryphonadmin
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19264 posts
Apr-09-01, 09:32 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: I have to say it..."
In response to message #6
 
   >'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
>magic.'
>
><If anyone who can tell me who said that, I will be very grateful>

I believe it was Sir Arthur C. Clarke, though I have often seen it attributed to Heinlein. Conversely, I believe it was Heinlein who admonished one never to attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but that homily is often laid at Sir Arthur's door. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Astynax
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717 posts
Apr-09-01, 11:15 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: I have to say it..."
In response to message #7
 
   >
>I believe it was Sir Arthur C. Clarke, though I have often seen it
>attributed to Heinlein. Conversely, I believe it was Heinlein who
>admonished one never to attribute to malice that which can be
>adequately explained by stupidity, but that homily is often laid at
>Sir Arthur's door. :)
>

1. Thanx muchly 2. Then there's the saying about great minds, which would neatly explain the issue

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Laudre
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Apr-09-01, 11:43 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: I have to say it..."
In response to message #7
 
   >>'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
>>magic.'
>>
>><If anyone who can tell me who said that, I will be very grateful>
>
>I believe it was Sir Arthur C. Clarke, though I have often seen it
>attributed to Heinlein. Conversely, I believe it was Heinlein who
>admonished one never to attribute to malice that which can be
>adequately explained by stupidity, but that homily is often laid at
>Sir Arthur's door. :)

I know for a fact that it was Clarke; what I don't know for certain is when or where or in what context it was said (I think I read once that it had something to do with either Childhood's End or Rendezvous with Rama, but I could very easily be wrong on that score). (And I did also think of this when I read the initial post, but I was interrupted mid-post by my roommate, who needed the phone line and the computer, although not for the same purpose.)

On stupidity, I much prefer Einstein's comment:

"Only two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

One last thing... I think of UF as a fantasy with lots of sci-fi trappings, not unlike Star Wars (and UF has been more consistent in the quality of the non-core stories, due in no small part to the lack of involvement of the inexplicably employed Kevin J. "Hack" Anderson).

-- Sean --

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

"It's not easy being green." -- Kermit the Frog


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Chris Redfield
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255 posts
Apr-09-01, 11:53 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #0
 
   I'm gonna have to go primarily with fantasy here. There are some stories that delve farther into the sci-fi area, but one of the things I associate with sci-fi is social commentary. Generally speaking that isn't found in UF (although, I think thats a good thing as I get pretty bored with social commentary quickly).

--------------------------------------
Whoa! What IS it?!


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Perko
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Apr-10-01, 00:03 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #10
 
   UF has social commentary: what do you call all the team togetherness and the 'wedge-rat' philosophy in itself?

-Craig
Need something to read?
http://www.wpi.edu/~perko


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Chris Redfield
Charter Member
255 posts
Apr-10-01, 00:27 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #11
 
   >UF has social commentary: what do you call all the team togetherness
>and the 'wedge-rat' philosophy in itself?

While certainly a social situation, it didn't really seem like commentary. What I was thinking by that statement would involve setting GENOM as a specific group in history against the wedge-rats who represent another group. I don't get that impression. It seems to me that GENOM was meant to be the opposition to the heroes.

--------------------------------------
Whoa! What IS it?!


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Perko
Charter Member
Apr-10-01, 01:10 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #12
 
   Ah, okay. You're right, then!

-Craig
Need something to read?
http://www.wpi.edu/~perko


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Ardaniel
Charter Member
Apr-10-01, 06:06 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #13
 
   The closest thing I've seen to social commentary is in the treatment of the W'harnyr brothers (and the W'harnyr sister) in the Salusian orphanage...

Ard Sumhenner
Ronin Research, Silicon Valley, CA


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lemon
Charter Member
Apr-11-01, 04:42 PM (EST)
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17. "Better without social commentary"
In response to message #14
 
   >The closest thing I've seen to social commentary is in the treatment
>of the W'harnyr brothers (and the W'harnyr sister) in the Salusian
>orphanage...
>
>Ard Sumhenner
>Ronin Research, Silicon Valley, CA


Maybe that's why it's my least favorite UF episode ever? Too preachy, too self-righteous. And I will be very impressed if you can come up with an event or circumstance in the real world that this episode draws from.

My opinion on this classification stuff: UF=happy happy funfun anime time. YAY!


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Ardaniel
Charter Member
Apr-11-01, 04:47 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #17
 
   >Maybe that's why it's my least favorite UF episode ever? Too preachy,
>too self-righteous.

It's heavy-handed, yes, this I admit.

> And I will be very impressed if you can come up
>with an event or circumstance in the real world that this
>episode draws from.

The treatment of half-Viet, half-American kids in Vietnamese orphanages at the end of the war, most likely, athough you'd have to ask Martin Rose.


Ard Sumhenner
Ronin Research, Silicon Valley, CA


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Astynax
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717 posts
Apr-11-01, 05:01 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #18
 
   >It's heavy-handed, yes, this I admit.
>

You know, I never noticed, I took it as a means, not an end in itself <shrug>

>
>The treatment of half-Viet, half-American kids in Vietnamese
>orphanages at the end of the war, most likely, athough you'd have to
>ask Martin Rose.
>

Looking a little more boradly, how about how any group of similar children will treat those who are dissimilar? One does not need to look far to find cruelty like that, really... I know I only need to think back to my grade school years...

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19264 posts
Apr-11-01, 05:10 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #17
 
   >And I will be very impressed if you can come up
>with an event or circumstance in the real world that this
>episode draws from.
>

What, were you never a child? Or have you forgotten how hateful children can be to one another over any difference, real or imagined? I haven't. I wish I could, but I haven't. I wouldn't go back to grade school for anything, not even the extra 20 years of life.

It isn't about any particular group. It's just about how much life can suck if you're an unusual child.

>My opinion on this classification stuff: UF=happy happy funfun anime
>time. YAY!

I'm glad you enjoy it, but I dislike being pigeonholed that way; it's an uncomfortable feeling, like being typecast as an actor.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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lemon
Charter Member
Apr-11-01, 05:45 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #20
 
   >What, were you never a child? Or have you forgotten how hateful
>children can be to one another over any difference, real or imagined?
>I haven't. I wish I could, but I haven't. I wouldn't go back to
>grade school for anything, not even the extra 20 years of life.
>
>It isn't about any particular group. It's just about how much life
>can suck if you're an unusual child.

Well...I could give you that. It's just that it's such a common theme! And it has little to do with UF--I mean, you could write a non anime related fiction peice that portrayed the same thing. You didn't really point out anything that hasn't been done with other stories, after school specials, etc. Okay, the being magically rescued by a transformer thing was kind of a new angle, but still, even that isn't all that new--the story of Cinderella has been around for quite awhile. I never liked that fairy tale. I need an element of realism tragedy to sympathize with characters.

>
>>My opinion on this classification stuff: UF=happy happy funfun anime
>>time. YAY!
>
>I'm glad you enjoy it, but I dislike being pigeonholed that way; it's
>an uncomfortable feeling, like being typecast as an actor.

I think you misunderstood me. You thought I meant...well, I'm not entirely sure what you thought I meant. I meant that I liked Undocumented Features for the wacky, geeky, up-and-down adventure that it was, and I felt no need to spend time pondering its classification into a genre. Especially when I have so many other things to do with my time. Like play video games! YAY! And debate social commentary! YAY!

And also, it was a reference solely to the sf/fantasy thing, not the social commentary thing.


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19264 posts
Apr-11-01, 06:37 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #21
 
   >Well...I could give you that. It's just that it's such a common theme!
>And it has little to do with UF

Ah, but that's the thing. I'm the editor. UF has to do with whatever I say it has to do with at any given time.

I'm the god, I'M THE GOD!

As TV's Frank would put it.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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lemon
Charter Member
Apr-12-01, 07:21 PM (EST)
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39. "HEY!"
In response to message #22
 
   >>Well...I could give you that. It's just that it's such a common theme!
>>And it has little to do with UF
>
>Ah, but that's the thing. I'm the editor. UF has to do with whatever
>I say it has to do with at any given time.
>
>I'm the god, I'M THE GOD!
>
>As TV's Frank would put it.
>
>--G.
>-><-
>Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
>Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


No fair pulling the god card! *cry*


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19264 posts
Apr-12-01, 11:42 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: HEY!"
In response to message #39
 
   >No fair pulling the god card! *cry*

Great, so I just watched some of Card Captor Sakura a bit ago, and now I have this weird image of what the God card would do.

Nothing good, I'm sure.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Khirsah
Charter Member
Jun-23-01, 10:33 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: HEY!"
In response to message #42
 
   >>No fair pulling the god card! *cry*
>
>Great, so I just watched some of Card Captor Sakura a bit ago,
>and now I have this weird image of what the God card would do.
>
>Nothing good, I'm sure.

Undoubtedly. It'd probably be as unstoppable as the Shot and the like. On a side note, a friend of mine is planning to write a CCS fic. Deranged individual that he is, he's planning to include me during a chapter with the Power card... Beating the thing senseless because of how insanely /cute/ the thing is. (For a while, I've tended to react to overly cute things the way your average starfighter jockey would react to a Kilrathi trying to ping 'im with a missile lock: Destroy Now.)

>--G.
>-><-
>Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
>Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


~Khirsah the Anticute


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Matrix Dragon
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1731 posts
Jun-28-01, 10:43 PM (EST)
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60. "RE: HEY!"
In response to message #57
 
   >Undoubtedly. It'd probably be as unstoppable as the Shot and the like. On a >side note, a friend of mine is planning to write a CCS fic. Deranged >individual that he is, he's planning to include me during a chapter with the >Power card... Beating the thing senseless because of how insanely /cute/ the >thing is. (For a while, I've tended to react to overly cute things the way >your average starfighter jockey would react to a Kilrathi trying to ping 'im >with a missile lock: Destroy Now.)

Heh, I gotta like that one. What's your response to the various -mon series?

At least EPU fics have a habit of keeping it under control. Unless.... Oh no, not CardCaptors! Guys, anything but that!

Matrix Dragon
"I'm gonna take an M-40A1 to Windy."


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Khirsah
Charter Member
Jun-28-01, 11:09 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: HEY!"
In response to message #60
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-01 AT 11:11 PM (EDT)

>>Undoubtedly. It'd probably be as unstoppable as the Shot and the like. On a >>side note, a friend of mine is planning to write a CCS fic. Deranged >>individual that he is, he's planning to include me during a chapter with the >>Power card... Beating the thing senseless because of how insanely /cute/ the >>thing is. (For a while, I've tended to react to overly cute things the way >>your average starfighter jockey would react to a Kilrathi trying to ping 'im >>with a missile lock: Destroy Now.)
>
>Heh, I gotta like that one. What's your response to the various -mon
>series?

Depends. If we're just going the game, Pokemon's all right. IMO, they've overmarketed it, though. And I just want to take one of my katanas to that annoying little yellow rat with the crooked tail.
Digimon, my opinion is reserved. I haven't seen enough to know. Some of the music's cool, though.

>At least EPU fics have a habit of keeping it under control. Unless....
>Oh no, not CardCaptors! Guys, anything but that!

The DracoDen one (the group I work with) is being weird with it. Somehow, my avatar has ended up with the Power stuffed into his watch, we're still not sure what Mikeneko is planning for himself, and Foxfire's stuck with the Shadow imprinted on his skin.
Not to mention that Sakura and her friends are 18+ and have moved to Las Vegas... Oy. I can just picture some of the fweird things that'll happen...

>Matrix Dragon
>"I'm gonna take an M-40A1 to Windy."



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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Jun-24-01, 08:17 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: HEY!"
In response to message #42
 
   >>No fair pulling the god card! *cry*
>
>Great, so I just watched some of Card Captor Sakura a bit ago,
>and now I have this weird image of what the God card would do.
>
>Nothing good, I'm sure.
>
>--G.

Now you have me thinking of what happens when you add the "Card Number One" deck to CCS...

--rR


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Astynax
Charter Member
717 posts
Apr-11-01, 09:36 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #21
 
   >
>Well...I could give you that. It's just that it's such a common theme!
>And it has little to do with UF--I mean, you could write a non anime
>related fiction peice that portrayed the same thing. You didn't really
>point out anything that hasn't been done with other stories, after
>school specials, etc. Okay, the being magically rescued by a
>transformer thing was kind of a new angle, but still, even that isn't
>all that new--the story of Cinderella has been around for quite
>awhile. I never liked that fairy tale. I need an element of
>realism tragedy to sympathize with characters.
>

Hmm, dead parents doesn't count as tragic?

...and I'm not sure sympathy was really the angle. I think PCHammer was shooting for "let's make the UF universe just a little bit MORE insane". That, or he was just watching Animaniacs while trying to come up with a story idea.

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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lemon
Charter Member
Apr-12-01, 07:20 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #24
 
   >Hmm, dead parents doesn't count as tragic?

Ah, but that's all in the past. It's the super-happy ending that got to me. And the way it came about. But regardless of my opinion on that, I still don't think it counts as social commentary. Commentary, in order to be commentary, has to say something about a situation. What was this story saying about the way children bully each other? That it's bad? Big frickin' duh. No new insight, other than that we should all become cyborg soldiers of justice and protect all the poor little orphans--wait a minute, that's a pretty good idea! GO GO FIGHT! FOR ETERNAL HAPPINESS!!

>...and I'm not sure sympathy was really the angle. I think PCHammer
>was shooting for "let's make the UF universe just a little bit MORE
>insane". That, or he was just watching Animaniacs while trying to come
>up with a story idea.

I can hardly fault him for that: it's the rampant inclusiveness of anything the authors can think of that helps make UF so charming. I don't know why: I just like the clever ways people tie things together in crossovers.


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Astynax
Charter Member
717 posts
Apr-11-01, 09:31 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #20
 
   >What, were you never a child? Or have you forgotten how hateful
>children can be to one another over any difference, real or imagined?
>I haven't. I wish I could, but I haven't. I wouldn't go back to
>grade school for anything, not even the extra 20 years of life.
>
>It isn't about any particular group. It's just about how much life
>can suck if you're an unusual child.
>

Now I'm wondering just how many people will make similar replies <and I wonder if it was you or me who brought this up first; doesn't matter> Somehow, I get the idea that a lot of the Eyrie folks, both authors and fans, can claim some form of the above.

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Captain Willard
Charter Member
Jun-24-01, 04:16 PM (EST)
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58. "Kids can be *EVIL* was RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #20
 
   >What, were you never a child? Or have you forgotten how hateful
>children can be to one another over any difference, real or imagined?
>I haven't. I wish I could, but I haven't. I wouldn't go back to
>grade school for anything, not even the extra 20 years of life.

I certainly haven't, either. Bleah, I always hated school, mainly because
of the other kids.

I think one of the worst parts is how the hate cycles around. I am quite
ashamed of the fact that I got pulled into the hatred of other misfits. It's
like as long as you hate the right people you can fit in. It took me until
about the seventh grade to recognize that particular trap.

Ick.

Like Vaughn, I'm rather ashamed to be human.

>>My opinion on this classification stuff: UF=happy happy funfun anime
>>time. YAY!

Even the Exile??? Planets going boom, Largo taking over the universe, Gryphon
spending 30(?) years running away without even knowing why he was running,
Megazone working as an asassin, Kei and Yuri barely talking to each other?

>I'm glad you enjoy it, but I dislike being pigeonholed that way; it's
>an uncomfortable feeling, like being typecast as an actor.

IMHO UF is UF -- it's moods are as diverse as its sources.
>
>--G.

Captain Willard
Commander, Free Socorro Liberation Front


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ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
33 posts
Apr-12-01, 10:42 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #17
 
   >>The closest thing I've seen to social commentary is in the treatment
>>of the W'harnyr brothers (and the W'harnyr sister) in the Salusian
>>orphanage...
>>
>>Ard Sumhenner
>>Ronin Research, Silicon Valley, CA
>
>
>Maybe that's why it's my least favorite UF episode ever? Too preachy,
>too self-righteous. And I will be very impressed if you can come up
>with an event or circumstance in the real world that this
>episode draws from.
>
>My opinion on this classification stuff: UF=happy happy funfun anime
>time. YAY!

And then there's the whole thing with Martin _killing_ the bully.

Last I checked, bullying is not a capital offense (and I say this as someone who _was_ bullied rather extensively in school, albeit more psychologically than physically).
Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19264 posts
Apr-12-01, 11:40 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #40
 
   >And then there's the whole thing with Martin _killing_ the bully.

Did you see a corpse?

No?

Then SHUT UP!

(Sorry for the tone there... I couldn't resist the old Warner Brothers cartoon quote. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
33 posts
Apr-12-01, 11:46 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #41
 
   Are you saying he actually _survived_ that?

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19264 posts
Apr-12-01, 11:48 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #43
 
   >Are you saying he actually _survived_ that?

I'm saying it cannot be proven that he didn't.

Continuity-wise, it isn't important enough for me to have actually decided. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
33 posts
Apr-13-01, 00:04 AM (EST)
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46. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #44
 
   >>Are you saying he actually _survived_ that?
>
>I'm saying it cannot be proven that he didn't.
>
>Continuity-wise, it isn't important enough for me to have actually
>decided. :)
>

Just be thankful I'm not David Brin... did you see the article a while back where he ripped on Star Wars for being "unworthy of... our civilization"?

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net


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lemon
Charter Member
Apr-13-01, 00:22 AM (EST)
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48. "I read that article..."
In response to message #46
 
   >>>Are you saying he actually _survived_ that?
>>
>>I'm saying it cannot be proven that he didn't.
>>
>>Continuity-wise, it isn't important enough for me to have actually
>>decided. :)
You could bring him back as a super-powerful, cyborged pawn of an evil villain who holds a bitter hatred for the three wacky kids who took away his humanity and destroyed his life forever....no, that's stupid, forget I said it.

I honestly didn't think he was smart enough to ever be interesting. Still, it rather bothered me that one of the heroes could just casually kill a small child, no matter how vicious and bratty, without any second thoughts or regrets later. It was just sort of forgotten about, as if the kid's life wasn't important enough for anyone to worry about. And lets face it: that toss wasn't something someone could have reasonably expected an ordinary person to survive.

>>
>
>Just be thankful I'm not David Brin... did you see the article a while
>back where he ripped on Star Wars for being "unworthy of... our
>civilization"?

I read it. I thought it was extremely pretentious. Especially the part about "Star Wars=evil monarchist elitist propaganda while Star Trek=joyful PC democratic paradise." It was very entertaining.


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Astynax
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717 posts
Apr-13-01, 12:48 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: I read that article..."
In response to message #48
 
   >You could bring him back as a super-powerful, cyborged pawn of an evil
>villain who holds a bitter hatred for the three wacky kids who took
>away his humanity and destroyed his life forever....no, that's stupid,
>forget I said it.
>

Err, did that remind anyone else of Coyle in UF 1?

<super powerful: check
<cyborged: check
<bitter hatred: check
<wacky kids: do I really have to say it?
<took away his humanity: err, ok, on this, he falls short;)
<destroyed his life: not sure. he might have enjoyed being a Darth Vader clone;)

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Bored and talking out of my ass"


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19264 posts
Apr-13-01, 00:33 AM (EST)
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49. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #46
 
   >Just be thankful I'm not David Brin... did you see the article a while
>back where he ripped on Star Wars for being "unworthy of... our
>civilization"?

Nope... and I can't say I particularly care whether David Brin feels anything is worthy of anything. It irritates me that entertainers and artists occasionally decide that their success somehow makes them arbiters of society. Brin is an entertaining writer, but so what?

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Astynax
Charter Member
717 posts
Apr-13-01, 12:43 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #43
 
   >Are you saying he actually _survived_ that?
>

May just be me, but I always thought he did. The whole story has a 'looney toons' vibe to it, so I thought him surviving, albeit in mucho pain, would've fit <and probably left a nice crater somewhere> Besides, we don't know too much about whatever species he was. Myabe they're tough.

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
33 posts
Apr-12-01, 11:52 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #41
 
  
>Then SHUT UP!
>

(raises eyebrow)

>(Sorry for the tone there... I couldn't resist the old Warner Brothers
>cartoon quote. :)

I guess I must have had a more deprived childhood than I thought... where was this from?

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net


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megazone
Charter Member
Apr-13-01, 00:10 AM (EST)
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47. "RE: Better without social commentary"
In response to message #45
 
   >I guess I must have had a more deprived childhood than I thought...
>where was this from?

The one that comes to mind is Porky and a dog claiming to be a Labrador retriever...

"I'll prove it to you - get me a labrador and I'll retrieve it!... Do you have a labrador?"
"n-n-n-n-no"
"Do you know where you can *get* a labrador?"
"n-n-n-n-no"
"THEN SHUT UP!"

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Astynax
Charter Member
717 posts
Apr-10-01, 12:31 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #10
 
   >I'm gonna have to go primarily with fantasy here. There are some
>stories that delve farther into the sci-fi area, but one of the things
>I associate with sci-fi is social commentary. Generally speaking that
>isn't found in UF (although, I think thats a good thing as I get
>pretty bored with social commentary quickly).
>

I'd say it's a pretty even mix, sci-fi/fantasy wise. Mecha, space ships, etc sorta plant you in sci-fi, but a lot of things are really fantastical <or outright fantasy items, like Hyrule{or however it gets spelled} or Asgard>

As for commentary, yeah, not a whole lot of social commentary, but I'd cast a vote for a chunk of personal commentary, things that deal with individuals rather than society as a whole <some of the Exile stuff gets a bit philosophical about death, vengence, etc>. But then again, I think that's why I like it. There are enough people saying what's wrong with society, or how it could be better, not too many dig deeper, into the people that make up the society <dunno if the eyrie crew actually intended to get that deep, but sometimes it happens anyway;)>

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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jcfiala
Charter Member
Apr-10-01, 10:43 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #0
 
  

Here's my opinion.

Core #1 is College Fantasy. There's a supercomputer in the basement that can produce real people (and toys) out of nothing. The food in the cafeteria has no relation to real food, and on the few times that it does count your classmates. The building we hang out in has a force field. All those fun things that would have been so cool instead of having to work on Calc 2 and whatever humanities requirement you're forced to take this semester.

It pretty much stays in that vein until Sonset, where it then diverges pretty seriously into high-energy Science Fiction. By which I mean that realism and science are followed, but not to the point where it gets in the way of a big-screen adventure.

At least until Twilight, where we've obviously gone into Science Fantasy in a big way.


-john, humorless toad
The difference between a violin and a viola is that a viola burns longer.
-Victor Borge


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Apr-11-01, 10:00 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #0
 
   It's in the in-between zone called "space opera".

Think about it. Is Star Wars SF or fantasy? It's space opera. So is UF.


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yostinso
Member since Feb-11-15
Apr-12-01, 00:31 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #25
 
   Mmm.. Galaxy spanning, millenia-stretching, and bigger than our universe. Now if only I had me some Omega-2.

E.O. Stinson yostinso@wpi.edu
AIM: Eostinso ICQ: 3513296
Admin: http://www.wedgerats.net
Yostinso <-- crazy fanboy


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Perko
Charter Member
Apr-12-01, 06:02 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #25
 
   That hits the nail on the head. Space Opera's what almost everyone means when they say 'science fiction.' This particular space opera is just about as classic space opera as you can get, down to the massive amounts of chivalry and almost Victorian ideals. Anyone read Lensmen?

(Hey, why does my connection to eyrie-productions.com keep cutting out? Ah well...)

-Craig
Need something to read?
http://www.wpi.edu/~perko


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Gryphonadmin
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19264 posts
Apr-12-01, 04:47 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #27
 
   >That hits the nail on the head. Space Opera's what almost everyone
>means when they say 'science fiction.' This particular space opera is
>just about as classic space opera as you can get, down to the massive
>amounts of chivalry and almost Victorian ideals. Anyone read Lensmen?

Oddly, not until last year.

It immediately made itself useful for my future plans, though. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Derek Andersen
Charter Member
Apr-13-01, 01:15 AM (EST)
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50. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #32
 
   That reminds me--has anyone else here read Neal Stephenson's The Big U? It was recently reprinted (which, in and of itself, amazed me--I think I remember reading a comment from Stephenson about never wanting it to be printed again...) and I, fan of his work that I am, picked it up and read it in January.

Very odd. Firefights in the cafeteria, a tank designed to be used inside the university itself, nuclear wastes below the school, railguns...

It's probably the closest thing I've seen (stylistically) to the first UF Core story (although The Big U predates UF by a few years) as far as published fiction goes. Just curious to see if any of the Eyrie crew have read it...and maybe what they thought of it, if they have.


Derek Andersen


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megazone
Charter Member
Apr-13-01, 11:51 AM (EST)
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51. "RE: Scifi or Fantasy"
In response to message #50
 
   >That reminds me--has anyone else here read Neal Stephenson's The
>Big U
?

Thanks for reminding me, I need to pick it up before it goes out of print again.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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StaticdashPulse
Charter Member
553 posts
Apr-16-01, 10:12 AM (EST)
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56. "Right on!"
In response to message #50
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-01 AT 10:14 AM (EDT)

Derek,

I've read "The Big U" quite recently. ("Funny story," he said before telling a rather unfunny story: I went to pre-order it at Amazon and it had just been published.) I agree whole heartily with you! Between Casamir building a railgun, Virgil fighting the worm, and Fred Fine leading the MARS group, it really is just about the only "published" story that captures the sheer, unbelievably believable tale of a Megaversity. A very good book (Stephenson's third best book, in my opinion. It would have been second, but I have this thing for sex-crazed savants.)

Static-Pulse
http://www.darkbeast.com
http://levelx.cjb.net


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