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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-14-17, 11:23 PM (EDT)
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"Range Report: M1 Carbine"
 
   Slipped away to get some range time this afternoon/evening; I took the carbine and next week's Gun of the Week out for a spin.

Oh, how my heart sank when I asked the man for .30 Carbine ammunition and he said, "All's we have is Tulammo." But you know, it worked fine. The carbine was like, "Steel case? Whatevs. Want fries with that?"

(Mind you, I haven't cleaned it yet. That will be tomorrow, when I'm better-rested. After the state a box of Tulammo left my AK in, I'm expecting to have some work to do when I get in there. But it functioned without a problem.)

And I'll tell you what: it shot all over the shop, I assume partly because I'm old and crap but mostly because it's basically a smoothbore, and even with that taken into account, I love this rifle. To the tune of the old Sesame Street song, M1 carbine, you're the one. You make range time lots of fun. I think it might be time to take J&G up on that bulk offer for S&B .30 Carbine ammo I mentioned in the other post.

The guy in the lane next to me was shooting .308 from a brand new rifle he'd just bought. I didn't get a good look at his rifle because one doesn't like to be too nosy (it feels too much like checking the other dude's equipment out at the urinals), but I think it might've been a semiauto FAL or FAL-alike. It was LOUD, anyway, and ejected its empties with such determination that a few of them bounced off the ceiling and down into my space. Which is how I can say for sure that he was shooting .308. I found one of his cases in my shirt pocket afterward. :)

Anyway, he seemed really excited about his new rifle when he left, so good on him. You hate to see people leave disappointed.

One unexpected malfunction occurred; though it didn't involve the carbine itself, it was substantial enough to bring operations in the entire range to a halt for a few minutes, which was a bit embarrassing. I was plugging along with the M2 magazine that originally came with the rifle when I ran out of ammunition.

Huh, I thought, that didn't feel like 30 rounds, and thinking I might've had a failure to feed, I opened the bolt. Nope, nothing in there. Empty. So I locked it open, took the magazine out, and thought, This feels oddly light. Looked down and noticed a flat piece of metal lying on the little table at my firing position. Looked more closely and realized it was the floor plate of the magazine. It had come off, dumping the magazine spring, the follower, and seven live rounds of ammunition on the floor.

That was annoying, but the embarrassing part was that the spring had bounded off into the little sea of spent brass in front of the firing line. Range safety rules say (and quite rightly so) that you can't go after anything you've lost out there yourself, which meant the range master had to call a general cease-fire, have everyone unload and stand back against the wall, open up the lane, pick his way across the brass and retrieve the pieces of my magazine for me. Luckily the place wasn't terribly busy—it was just me, the guy with the .308 rifle, and his girlfriend—but still. Awkward.

(This, by the way, is why I'm reluctant to take my Garand there. Not only would it be a hassle getting the clips back, I couldn't be entirely sure where they'd get off to in the first place. Wouldn't want one falling on some other patron's head. It's also no good if you have rare brass you'd like to get back after shooting what's in it, which is why I don't take my Steyr-Hahn. I mean, in practical terms it probably doesn't matter, I don't handload any more or even really have a place where I could set up the equipment, but I might some day, and 9mm Steyr is rare enough that I'd hate to just throw the brass away like that.)

The weird thing is that the magazine that came apart is the GI one that came with the gun, not the Korean repro 15-rounder I bought online to go with it. Or maybe it's not all that weird, given that the GI one is presumably a lot older. Either way, the Korean one worked just fine. Might have to get a few more of those.

I haven't tried to put the M2 mag back together yet, but I recovered all the parts, so maybe I'll give it a shot during tomorrow's clean-and-oil session.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Gryphonadmin Apr-15-17 1
     RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Wiregeek Apr-16-17 2
         RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Proginoskes Apr-16-17 3
             RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Gryphonadmin Apr-16-17 4
             RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Wiregeek Apr-16-17 6
                 RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Gryphonadmin Apr-16-17 7
         RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Gryphonadmin Apr-16-17 5
     RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Peter Eng Apr-17-17 8
         RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Gryphonadmin Apr-03-18 9
             RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Peter Eng Apr-04-18 10
                 RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine Gryphonadmin Apr-04-18 11

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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-15-17, 08:44 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #0
 
   >After the state a box of Tulammo left my AK in, I'm
>expecting to have some work to do when I get in there.

Yep. I was right about this.

On the plus side, taking an M1 carbine apart for cleaning is pretty easy. To get the metal parts out of the stock, all you have to do is loosen (not even remove) one screw, the one holding the front (and only) barrel band. (In a clever design feature, this screw, though it can be operated with a flathead screwdriver, is actually designed to be turned with the rim of a .30 Carbine cartridge—the assumption being that there's always likely to be plenty of those around.) Then the band slides forward, the upper hand guard comes off to the front, and the whole action-barrel assembly lifts right out of the stock.

Note that the barrel band, front sling swivel, and bayonet lug are the same part. Makes it pretty easy to replace if your sling swivel or bayonet lug get broken (though you do have to take off the front sight to get it off).

Another clever design feature: the guide rod inside the recoil spring, once removed, is also the punch you need to drive out the pin holding the trigger assembly onto the bottom of the receiver. Thus, apart from the cartridge to loosen the barrel band screw, no external tools are required to dismantle the M1 carbine down to its sub-assemblies. (If you want to take the trigger/hammer group apart, you'll need more than that, but the average soldier in the field is not going to be doing that; if something's broken in there, that's a job for the armorers.)

With the trigger group out of the way, getting the slide/operating rod off and the bolt out require only a bit of finagling.

Not obvious in these photos, because it's the same color as the metal's normal finish: a layer of unspeakable filth. Well, OK, it wasn't that bad, but still. There was quite a bit of soot and grunge in there; it took a fairly substantial quantity of #9 and rags to clean up. I suspect that wasn't all from my shooting yesterday, dirty as Tulammo is.

However, all is well now, and I got the magazine back together into the bargain (though I'll probably retire that one, as it's easier to take apart again than it should be). As a bonus, while I had the carbine apart, I was able to get a couple of pictures of the gas tappet. Here it is in the fully forward position:

And this is as far back as it comes:

When they say "short-stroke gas system", they mean it! That's only a few millimeters, so you can imagine how fast it must be moving to pass along enough energy to cycle the action.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Wiregeek
Member since Mar-13-14
128 posts
Apr-16-17, 01:35 AM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #1
 
   Oddly enough, I got to take my M1 carbine out for a walk earlier today. The poor thing has been stuck in the gun safe for years. The first mag didn't want to feed, but once she warmed up, everything chooched just fine.

We were in an abandoned coal mine, vs an organized shooting range, but at ~30 yd, every time I bothered to aim down the sights I hit what I was aiming at.

Damn fine gun. Damn fun time shooting... just a bit irritating to _find_ good ammo for.


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Proginoskes
Member since Dec-3-09
146 posts
Apr-16-17, 12:18 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-17 AT 12:19 PM (EDT)
 
Being an abandoned coal mine, I don't imagine my initial cringe really had much basis in fact, but I was imagining conflagrations and am glad that everyone is fine.

(Flour mills and coal mines: inspiring thermobaric weapons with thermobaric industrial accidents.)


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Gryphonadmin
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19429 posts
Apr-16-17, 03:19 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #3
 
   >(Flour mills and coal mines: inspiring thermobaric weapons with
>thermobaric industrial accidents.)

Paper mills, too. They had a couple of big ol' dust explosions at the one my father used to work at when I was a kid.

OTOH, abandoned mines usually get abandoned because they've run out of whatever they were mining there, so it's probably fine. ... Probably. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Wiregeek
Member since Mar-13-14
128 posts
Apr-16-17, 09:23 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #3
 
   the only problem I've encountered there was locals putting _caltrops_ on the access road, because this gal thinks that since she's been there since before the sun was authorized to appear round, she can unilaterally declare the old coal mine off limits. Sorry sweetheart, it's an "unmaintained state rec area" now.


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-16-17, 09:35 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #6
 
   >the only problem I've encountered there was locals putting _caltrops_
>on the access road, because this gal thinks that since she's been
>there since before the sun was authorized to appear round, she can
>unilaterally declare the old coal mine off limits. Sorry sweetheart,
>it's an "unmaintained state rec area" now.

Oh, you have Volunteer Fun Police there, too. Around here they don't use caltrops, they backhoe rows of boulders across roads they don't want people using.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-16-17, 05:27 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #2
 
   >Damn fine gun. Damn fun time shooting... just a bit irritating to
>_find_ good ammo for.

The CMP still offers it; I'm not familiar with that manufacturer, but if it's what they're using at matches, it's probably work a look.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Peter Eng
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1500 posts
Apr-17-17, 12:47 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #1
 
   >
>When they say "short-stroke gas system", they mean it! That's only a
>few millimeters, so you can imagine how fast it must be moving to pass
>along enough energy to cycle the action.
>

Next time you clean your M1, would you mind repeating the second photo with a ruler or a quarter for reference?

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Gryphonadmin
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19429 posts
Apr-03-18, 08:11 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #8
 
   >>When they say "short-stroke gas system", they mean it! That's only a
>>few millimeters, so you can imagine how fast it must be moving to pass
>>along enough energy to cycle the action.
>
>Next time you clean your M1, would you mind repeating the second photo
>with a ruler or a quarter for reference?

Finally remembered to do this. Annoyingly, the camera only wanted to focus on the quarter, not the barrel, but you get the idea...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Peter Eng
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1500 posts
Apr-04-18, 10:35 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #9
 
   Wow. That is considerably smaller than I thought it was.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-04-18, 12:59 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Range Report: M1 Carbine"
In response to message #10
 
   >Wow. That is considerably smaller than I thought it was.

Yep. The Williams gas tappet truly is a short-stroke system. Does the job, though! That tiny piston moving that tiny distance provides all the impulse required; the inertia of the operating slide (which is a much more massive piece than the other moving part in the system, the bolt) does the rest.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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