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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-06-14, 01:54 PM (EDT)
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"An Arresting Alternate Image"
 
   My mother has just unwittingly postulated the alternate universe version of Star Trek in which the helmsman of the Enterprise is a "Mr. Zulu". Now there's a thought. Who would have played him? I'm guessing the young Yaphet Kotto; his ancestors were Cameroonian, not Zulus, but Hollywood in the 1960s wouldn't have been bothered about that.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: An Arresting Alternate Image ratinoxteam Apr-06-14 1
     RE: An Arresting Alternate Image ebony14 Apr-07-14 3
  RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Mercutio Apr-06-14 2
     RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Peter Eng Apr-07-14 4
         RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Zemyla Apr-07-14 5
         RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Mercutio Apr-07-14 7
         RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Gryphonadmin Apr-07-14 8
             RE: An Arresting Alternate Image ratinoxteam Apr-07-14 9
                 RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Gryphonadmin Apr-07-14 10
     RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Gryphonadmin Apr-07-14 6
         RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Malkarris Apr-08-14 11
             RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Mercutio Apr-08-14 12
                 RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Gryphonadmin Apr-08-14 13
                     RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Mercutio Apr-08-14 14
                         RE: An Arresting Alternate Image Malkarris Apr-10-14 16
                     RE: An Arresting Alternate Image BobSchroeck Apr-09-14 15

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ratinoxteam
Member since Jun-6-05
96 posts
Apr-06-14, 04:27 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #0
 
   Hm. Greg Morris maybe. He worked for Desilu/Paramount around that time.

Rat
That and five bucks will get you a
small coffee at Starbucks


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ebony14
Member since Jul-11-11
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Apr-07-14, 08:47 AM (EDT)
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3. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #1
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-14 AT 08:49 AM (EDT)
 
>Hm. Greg Morris maybe. He worked for Desilu/Paramount around that
>time.

Yes, but then you'd have those weird moments where the helmsman of the Enterprise gets tapped for odd black ops jobs by a senior member of Starfleet Intelligence. Along with Mr. Spock, who turns out to be pretty good at being a master of disguise.

You know, that might be pretty awesome.


Ebony the Black Dragon

"Life is like an anole. Sometimes it's green. Sometimes it's brown. But it's always a small Caribbean lizard."


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
469 posts
Apr-06-14, 06:33 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #0
 
   Assuming that Roddenberry could talk the studio into two black characters (and Uhura was a heavy lift all by her lonesome) he probably would have at least made the attempt to get Sidney Poitier.

Poitier was both very high profile at the time, but not high profile enough that television would have been seen as beneath him (that wouldn't happen until his enormously banner year in '67) and it was well known that he was seeking out roles more nuanced than what he'd been doing to that point. Poitier was well-known in Hollywood to really want to preform roles that would give him the option to do more varied acting, but considered it his social responsibility to defy old stereotypes of black men as either happy minstrels or savage brutes. Star Trek might have interested him, especially as part of an explicitly multicultural cast where he would be less likely to be written as the token black.

-Merc
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Peter Eng
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Apr-07-14, 01:21 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #2
 
   >Assuming that Roddenberry could talk the studio into two black
>characters (and Uhura was a heavy lift all by her lonesome) he
>probably would have at least made the attempt to get Sidney Poitier.
>
>-Merc
>Keep Rat

It seems to me that if Mr. Zulu was at the helm, Nichelle Nichols would be replaced by an Asian woman.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Zemyla
Member since Mar-26-08
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Apr-07-14, 02:08 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #4
 
   >It seems to me that if Mr. Zulu was at the helm, Nichelle Nichols
>would be replaced by an Asian woman.
And that would have been a damned shame.


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
469 posts
Apr-07-14, 06:49 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #4
 
  
>It seems to me that if Mr. Zulu was at the helm, Nichelle Nichols
>would be replaced by an Asian woman.

You know, I read and thought "Huh, that's probably right" and then "God dammit, I really want to see Lucy Liu in a Star Trek series."

(She's already playing a doctor who solves crimes! Playing a space-doctor who solves space-crimes isn't that great a stretch!)

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-07-14, 07:06 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #4
 
   >It seems to me that if Mr. Zulu was at the helm, Nichelle Nichols
>would be replaced by an Asian woman.

Hey, why not? She's already been replaced by a Dominican...

(Seriously, kids, what is going on with Zoë Saldaña? Just off the top of my head I can think of two roles in which she's been weirdly miscast. In The Losers she played a character who was originally from Afghanistan before being inexplicably rewritten as a Bolivian, and of course in Star Trek and its sequels she's playing someone who's supposed to be Bantu. I mean, I'm not hating on her, she does good work, but wha?)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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ratinoxteam
Member since Jun-6-05
96 posts
Apr-07-14, 08:15 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #8
 
   No stranger than casting Sean Connery as a Greek (Time Bandits), a Spaniard... er... Egyptian (The Highlander) and a Lithuanian (The Hunt for Red October).

Rat
That and five bucks will get you a
small coffee at Starbucks


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-07-14, 08:21 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #9
 
   >No stranger than casting Sean Connery as a Greek (Time Bandits), a
>Spaniard... er... Egyptian (The Highlander) and a Lithuanian (The Hunt
>for Red October).

"OK, Sean, everyone in this movie is Scottish."

"That'sh good."

"Except you. You're a 3,000-year-old Egyptian, lately part of the Spanish court, by way of medieval Japan."

"Hm. I'll have tae practish tha'."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-07-14, 02:47 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #2
 
   >Star Trek might have interested him, especially as part of an
>explicitly multicultural cast where he would be less likely to be
>written as the token black.

I don't know, I'm having a hard time picturing Sidney Poitier as willing to play a character called "Mr. Zulu", even if the absence of later series' "here is the costume embellishment of my people" thing does mean he probably wouldn't actually have been carrying a hide shield on the bridge.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Malkarris
Member since Jan-5-11
50 posts
Apr-08-14, 09:48 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #6
 
   Until the one episode where he goes crazy.

Except carrying the Sulu parallel, he would probably be an expert in some south american martial art or something, since Sulu was Asian, but practiced western fencing.

I won't fight you Atton.
I don't care, I just want you to die.
(Disciple and Atton KOTOR2)


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
469 posts
Apr-08-14, 10:12 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #11
 
   Well, if we're being honest here, the ethnicity of every non-white person on that bridge was downplayed at every opportunity, because merely having them there and on-camera was regarded as risky enough. It was important for Roddenberry (and important in general; at one point, Martin Luther King personally talked Nichelle Nichols into not quitting because her being seen on TV every week was that important) to show a future where nobody would keep you down because of the color of your skin and where different nation-states were now longer at each others throats, but the flip side of that was everyone was basically culturally very white bread. Sulu and Uhura didn't even have first names, and the extent of Chekov's Russian-ness was him cracking wise about everything having been invented there.

(Admittedly, he was far from alone in that. Claudia Christian and Michael Dorn weren't really all that Russian either, although Worf at least had the excuse of deliberately constructing a non-Russian identity for himself after reaching adulthood.)

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-08-14, 10:31 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #12
 
   >Well, if we're being honest here, the ethnicity of every non-white
>person on that bridge was downplayed at every opportunity, because
>merely having them there and on-camera was regarded as risky enough.

Interestingly, for all that one often hears about the studio and/or network having been leery of the multiethnic main cast, they seem to have had few problems with that aspect of the overall setting. Off the top of my head, I can think of three other black characters on the original Star Trek apart from Lt. Uhura, and they're all highly trained, well-regarded professionals. They weren't series regulars, which may be why the producers got away with it, but Commodore Stone was a Starfleet flag officer; Dr. M'benga a physician shown treating white folks without comment; and Richard Daystrom, for all that he was a rather tragic figure in that episode, was nonetheless a Nobel laureate and a widely admired man.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
469 posts
Apr-08-14, 11:46 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #13
 
   Huh.

You know, I'd never really thought about that. It is weird, isn't it? Paramount freaking out about the composition of the guys on the bridge every week and an on-screen interracial kiss and suchly is well-documented, but other stuff you'd think they'd have had issues with ("You can't have a black flag officer, he outranks the white captain") are things I can't recall hearing anything about.

Yeah. Weird.

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Malkarris
Member since Jan-5-11
50 posts
Apr-10-14, 01:35 AM (EDT)
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16. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #14
 
   Well, in real life, yes. But this is TV, the highest ranking guy isn't the flag officer you see once, its all the people you see every week.

I won't fight you Atton.
I don't care, I just want you to die.
(Disciple and Atton KOTOR2)


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BobSchroeck
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Apr-09-14, 09:06 AM (EDT)
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15. "RE: An Arresting Alternate Image"
In response to message #13
 
   >Off the top of my head, I can think of three other black characters on
>the original Star Trek apart from Lt. Uhura, and they're all
>highly trained, well-regarded professionals.

There was also the ersatz crewman that the "salt monster" appeared as to Uhura -- a tall, handsome black fellow who addressed her in Swahili.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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