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Gryphonadmin
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15116 posts
Oct-11-14, 10:14 PM (EDT)
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"y'know..."
 
   ... 23 years later, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" still doesn't make any goddamned sense, but with that hook, it also still doesn't really need to.

--G.
with the lights out, it's less dangerous
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: y'know... Mercutio Oct-12-14 1
     RE: y'know... Croaker Oct-12-14 2
         RE: y'know... BobSchroeck Oct-13-14 12
     RE: y'know... Peter Eng Oct-12-14 3
     RE: y'know... Gryphonadmin Oct-12-14 4
         RE: y'know... The Traitor Oct-12-14 5
             RE: y'know... Gryphonadmin Oct-12-14 6
                 RE: y'know... The Traitor Oct-13-14 11
                     RE: y'know... Gryphonadmin Oct-13-14 19
         RE: y'know... Mercutio Oct-12-14 7
             RE: y'know... Peter Eng Oct-13-14 8
                 RE: y'know... Gryphonadmin Oct-13-14 9
                     RE: y'know... Mercutio Oct-13-14 10
                     RE: y'know... Astynax Oct-13-14 15
                     RE: y'know... McFortner Oct-13-14 24
                 RE: y'know... Zemyla Oct-13-14 13
             RE: y'know... Nova Floresca Oct-13-14 14
                 RE: y'know... Gryphonadmin Oct-13-14 16
                     RE: y'know... Nova Floresca Oct-13-14 17
                         RE: y'know... Gryphonadmin Oct-13-14 20
                             RE: y'know... Nova Floresca Oct-13-14 21
     RE: y'know... VoidRandom Oct-13-14 18
         RE: y'know... Gryphonadmin Oct-13-14 22
             RE: y'know... VoidRandom Oct-13-14 23
         RE: y'know... Croaker Oct-14-14 25
             RE: y'know... Verbena Oct-14-14 26
                 RE: y'know... BobSchroeck Oct-14-14 28
                     RE: y'know... Terminus Est Oct-14-14 29
                         RE: y'know... Verbena Oct-14-14 30
                         RE: y'know... Croaker Oct-14-14 31
             RE: y'know... Peter Eng Oct-14-14 27

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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
657 posts
Oct-12-14, 04:19 AM (EDT)
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1. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #0
 
   Is it wrong that I'm really glad I'm too young for Nirvana to have been at all relevant to me?

I mean, they were fine music-makers and all. But Christ on a bike, Gen-X'ers talk about Cobain like he single-handedly saved music as we know it. And it's like "is this a cultural thing? Would I be part of your weird cult too if I'd been born in the seventies, talking about the pilgrimage I made to Kurt's grave in '97 and still muttering angrily about Soundgarden's breakup?"

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Croaker
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477 posts
Oct-12-14, 01:35 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #1
 
   >Is it wrong that I'm really glad I'm too young for Nirvana to have
>been at all relevant to me?
>
>I mean, they were fine music-makers and all. But Christ on a bike,
>Gen-X'ers talk about Cobain like he single-handedly saved music as we
>know it. And it's like "is this a cultural thing? Would I be part of
>your weird cult too if I'd been born in the seventies, talking about
>the pilgrimage I made to Kurt's grave in '97 and still muttering
>angrily about Soundgarden's breakup?"
>
>-Merc
>Keep Rat


Well. Not to date myself, but.

Born in the 70s.

Never gave a **** about Nirvana.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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BobSchroeck
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Oct-13-14, 02:07 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #2
 
   >Born in the 70s.
>Never gave a **** about Nirvana.

Born in the early sixties.
Kinda liked what Nirvana I heard, never went out of my way to find more.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Peter Eng
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1046 posts
Oct-12-14, 02:20 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #1
 
   >Is it wrong that I'm really glad I'm too young for Nirvana to have
>been at all relevant to me?
>

Wasn't relevant to me, either. Well, not directly relevant.

>
>I mean, they were fine music-makers and all. But Christ on a bike,
>Gen-X'ers talk about Cobain like he single-handedly saved music as we
>know it.
>

I haven't a clue why that is.

Peter Eng
--
Well we don't sound like Madonna
Here we are now - we're Nirvana
A garage band from Seattle
Well it sure beats raisin' cattle
YEAH!


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Gryphonadmin
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15116 posts
Oct-12-14, 02:42 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #1
 
   >Is it wrong that I'm really glad I'm too young for Nirvana to have
>been at all relevant to me?

Not as such, although ironically...

>I mean, they were fine music-makers and all. But Christ on a bike,
>Gen-X'ers talk about Cobain like he single-handedly saved music as we
>know it. And it's like "is this a cultural thing? Would I be part of
>your weird cult too if I'd been born in the seventies

... in aping (perhaps inadvertently) that dismissive too-cool-for-school thing the band's anti-fans did at the time, you are plugging yourself into another part of the same cultural phenomenon.

Nirvana was one of those bands that have basically four listener demographics: rabid fans, people who think they had their moments, people who aren't aware of them, and rabid anti-fans. A lot of bands only make it to the middle two, and a vanishingly rare view end up with the top three and not the bottom one, but most of your really influential acts will wind up with all four, in varying proportions.

Me, I was in group two. I have a copy of Nevermind (I think they might have been issued to all Americans in their late teens and early 20s at the time of publication by the government, possibly with reference to census data), and I have particular personal reasons for being amused and nostalgic about digging it out now and again and playing it, but I never got into them enough to buy any of their other albums or learn the names of anybody else who was in the band (I know Dave Grohl from the Foo Fighters, and only found out later that he was a Nirvana alumnus).

None of which affects my opinion that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" has a rockin' good hook, which, as you may recall was all my original post was about. :)

(Other artists have noticed this. There was Al Yankovic's parody about how puzzling the lyrics were, of course, but I knew a guy who took it a step farther than that - back in the WPI Elder Days, Jim Tyrrell would occasionally play a cover of it in which each of the words was replaced with "blah", simultaneously mocking the original lyrics and pointing out that the song's musically strong enough that it doesn't even really need them. :)

In the spring of 1994, when I was working phone support at Leading Edge, we had a lot of long, awkward pauses in most calls because the Borland Paradox database we were using to track problem tickets was so slow... but the awkwardest by far as the one in which the caller (who had sounded perfectly normal up to that time) asked,

"Hey, man. You hear about Kurt Cobain?"

"Uh, yeah," I said, slightly distracted by the doings on my end. "Tragic, huh?"

"Yeah." Pause, and then, in exactly the same matter-of-fact tone of voice: "It was the CIA, man."

"... Huh?"

"It was the CIA," the caller repeated. "They did Kurt just like they did Del Shannon."

"Um... OK, I've got the next screen now, let me just verify your address..."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
756 posts
Oct-12-14, 06:04 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #4
 
   The adulation of nirvana, as with all mythical places, is just a truck stop people go through while moving on towards something more real, more personal, and more suited to them. Someone's gotta work there, someone's gotta charge too much for BLTs of deeply suspect provenance, but nobody really wants it to be them.

This metaphor brought to you by Metaphor Torturers PLC. Find us on Facebook like vultures squatting on the rotting carcass of a particularly scrofulous wildebeest.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

Boring band, boring output, beloved of supply teachers who want the kids to think they're cool. Teen Spirit is a deodorant and the riff is, in my opinion, desperately in need of it. Yeah, chalk me up as a member of group 4.


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Gryphonadmin
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15116 posts
Oct-12-14, 06:52 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #5
 
   >Yeah, chalk me up as a member of group 4.

There's a deep and reverberating shock.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
756 posts
Oct-13-14, 08:24 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #6
 
   >>Yeah, chalk me up as a member of group 4.
>
>There's a deep and reverberating shock.

Is it like the one I feel when a post-apocalyptic lumberjack moaning through his nose about how shit everything is is held up constantly as a master of his craft, usually by people who tell me so while dismissing anyone and everyone who became after he died as a phoney, flash-in-the-pan, manufactured hack? Why yes, I think it just might be!

For the sake of clarity: I'm not suggesting you've done that, at least not within earshot of me. I'm suggesting that this is my common experience with musos of a certain age.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

Nirvana's existence is also directly to blame for that of Nickelback. Prosecution rests, m'lud.


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Gryphonadmin
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15116 posts
Oct-13-14, 07:40 PM (EDT)
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19. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #11
 
   >For the sake of clarity: I'm not suggesting you've done that, at least
>not within earshot of me. I'm suggesting that this is my common
>experience with musos of a certain age.

I submit to you that that experience is the fault of the people at whose hands you have had it, not the band. That's like blaming the manufacturer of a frying pan you got hit with instead of the person who hit you with it.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
657 posts
Oct-12-14, 11:40 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #4
 
  
>... in aping (perhaps inadvertently) that dismissive
>too-cool-for-school thing the band's anti-fans did at the time, you
>are plugging yourself into another part of the same cultural
>phenomenon.

It's possible. The band that my specific age cohort had that had high profile "this is the music we hate to prove we're cool" anti-fans was Green Day. I don't suppose the dynamic there was much different than with Nirvana.

>Nirvana was one of those bands that have basically four listener
>demographics: rabid fans, people who think they had their moments,
>people who aren't aware of them, and rabid anti-fans. A lot of bands
>only make it to the middle two, and a vanishingly rare view end up
>with the top three and not the bottom one, but most of your really
>influential acts will wind up with all four, in varying proportions.

You know, I'd never really thought about it that way. You are of course right; and in fact I'm having trouble thinking of bands that hit only the first three. The Beatles, I guess? If only because it is hard to find someone who will admit to hating The Beatles even if they do, because they don't want to be publicly seen holding an opinion just that outside the mainstream. And maybe The Beatles don't even count, because I don't think you can find anyone in the English-speaking world who is unaware of them.

>None of which affects my opinion that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" has a
>rockin' good hook, which, as you may recall was all my original post
>was about. :)

It absolutely does. That always both pleases and frustrates me. I love it when a piece of music doesn't actually need lyrics of content to stand on its own two feet, merely accompanying vocals that hit the right cadences to accompany it.

By the same token, tho, listen to the goddamn lyrics, people. They're important! Words are important! Don't play Born in the USA as some sort of hyper-patriotic anthem celebrating capitalism and American exceptionalism!

>"Hey, man. You hear about Kurt Cobain?"
>
>"Uh, yeah," I said, slightly distracted by the doings on my end.
>"Tragic, huh?"
>
>"Yeah." Pause, and then, in exactly the same matter-of-fact tone of
>voice: "It was the CIA, man."

Tangent time!

I have, no fooling, gotten to the point where if someone says the CIA is up to something, I will at least consider the notion, no matter how deep into the world of tin-foil couture it seems to be. This is just because the actual-life shit the CIA has gotten up to is often just that messed up.

I bring this up because Jeremy Renner's latest joint, Kill the Messenger, hit this weekend. It's good. Real good. Aside from Renner just generally being a good actor (he even makes that godwaful mustache he grew for the sake of verisimilitude work) it's a pretty harrowing account of how the CIA actually destroyed a man for revealing one of their more evil schemes, and the cherry on top of that shit sundae was that very few people actually believed him at the time.

I wouldn't quite say that Renner inhabits the role of Gary Webb, but he very clearly was deeply invested in the subject matter. Like when Ben Affleck makes a movie about Boston. Sort of Six Days of the Condor has a kid with All the President's Men, only without, you know, a happy ending.

Bonus points: Renner continues the trend of every character he plays being completely applicable to a single guy in UF without even a whole lot of hand-waving being needed.

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Peter Eng
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1046 posts
Oct-13-14, 01:40 AM (EDT)
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8. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #7
 
   >And maybe The Beatles don't even
>count, because I don't think you can find anyone in the
>English-speaking world who is unaware of them.
>

A few awards shows back, Paul McCartney was on for a bit. Twitter was full of "Who is that guy singing on stage?" commentary. Maybe they are aware of The Beatles, but I wouldn't bet on it.

>
>By the same token, tho, listen to the goddamn lyrics, people. They're
>important! Words are important! Don't play Born in the USA as
>some sort of hyper-patriotic anthem celebrating capitalism and
>American exceptionalism!
>

See also, "From A Distance" (co-opted into a pro-war song) and "Every Breath You Take" (not a love song, no matter what people think).

Peter Eng
--
"They don't know who Paul McCartney is? That's terrible! I mean, everybody should have heard of Wings, right?" - me, tongue firmly in cheek.


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Gryphonadmin
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15116 posts
Oct-13-14, 01:59 AM (EDT)
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9. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #8
 
   >>By the same token, tho, listen to the goddamn lyrics, people. They're
>>important! Words are important! Don't play Born in the USA as
>>some sort of hyper-patriotic anthem celebrating capitalism and
>>American exceptionalism!

I think it was the late Frank Zappa who observed that one of the great experiences in rock 'n roll was listening to the full-length version of a track you thought was a sweet love song based on the radio edit, and discovering that "it's really about a pair of leather queens cornholing."

>See also, "From A Distance" (co-opted into a pro-war song)

Not to be confused with Kate Bush's "Experiment IV", the song with perhaps the creepiest video ever made. (Don't say you weren't warned.)

We were working secretly for the military
Our experiment in sound is nearly ready to begin
We only know in theory what we are doing
Music made for pleasure, music made to thrill

They told us all they wanted
Was a sound that could kill someone from a distance...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
657 posts
Oct-13-14, 02:41 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #9
 
   ... good lord. It's like they let Terry Gilliam make a music video. That's brilliant. I'm not going to say that it's the best music video I've ever seen, but certainly top five.

That is definitely a strong contender for creepiest video ever made, tho. Well, in the subgenre of "genuine creepy horror." There are other genres of creepy, and "the people making this are grotesquely misogynist" creepy has... way too many music videos in contention to count, really.

But man, that is a good video. It actually elevates the song! Do you know how many videos manage to do that? Very, very few. Thanks for the link, Ben.

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Astynax
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692 posts
Oct-13-14, 07:07 PM (EDT)
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15. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #9
 
   >Not to be confused with Kate Bush's
>"Experiment IV", the song
>with perhaps the creepiest video ever made. (Don't say you weren't
>warned.)
>

I think the Internet has made me too jaded. That didn't have near the creepy factor I expected. Entertaining though. Not every military experiment gone wrong summons evil beings (a banshee perhaps?)


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Bonus points for a pre-House Hugh Laurie as 'unfortunate scientist number 5'"


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McFortner
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Oct-13-14, 09:11 PM (EDT)
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24. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #9
 
   How did I miss that video all those years ago? In 1986 I was in college for the first time and I was watching videos at that time, so it must have been considered "too shocking" to be broadcast on the over-the-air video shows. Pity, because the song and the video are pretty good.

Michael C. Fortner
"Maxim 37: There is no such thing as "overkill".
There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload".


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Zemyla
Member since Mar-26-08
114 posts
Oct-13-14, 02:19 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #8
 
   >See also, "From A Distance" (co-opted into a pro-war song) and "Every
>Breath You Take" (not a love song, no matter what people think).

The absolute champion of that is GE using Sixteen Tons in a commercial about clean coal. Seriously.


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Nova Floresca
Member since Sep-13-13
169 posts
Oct-13-14, 06:16 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #7
 
   >You know, I'd never really thought about it that way. You are of
>course right; and in fact I'm having trouble thinking of bands that
>hit only the first three. The Beatles, I guess? If only because it is
>hard to find someone who will admit to hating The Beatles even if they
>do

Er, uh, hi *raises hand*. Although technically I suppose I more hate the boomers who proselytize the Beatles. Okay, fair enough, they changed your world. They'll never be more than "eh, it's better than commercials" music to me, because they were all dead (or oxidized until moot) by the time I was old enough to listen to music and care.

Also, secondary question: is Nickelback really any worse than, say, Motley Crue? Not attempting to defend them, by any means, just wondering what singled out this one group to be made into failures of myth and legend?

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."


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Gryphonadmin
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15116 posts
Oct-13-14, 07:11 PM (EDT)
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16. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #14
 
   >They'll never be more than "eh, it's better than
>commercials" music to me, because they were all dead (or oxidized
>until moot) by the time I was old enough to listen to music and care.

I'd just like to point out that, in an age of recording technologies and the rampant atemporality they bring with them, this is a damned silly thing to say. In fact, on some level it's been a damned silly thing to say since roughly the invention of writing. Go through your library and remove everything that a person who is now dead was involved in the production of. Go on, I'll wait. How many books have you got left? Yeah, I thought so. Now get rid of all the music you have that was made by living people (since we already know you don't do music by dead people :), but contains musical influences from people who are dead. Also, be sure not to look at any architecture or use any technology that might be derived in whole on in part from the work of people who have since died.

See? Didn't take long for the premise to become absurd, did it? :)

>Also, secondary question: is Nickelback really any worse than, say,
>Motley Crue? Not attempting to defend them, by any means, just
>wondering what singled out this one group to be made into failures of
>myth and legend?

That, I can't help you with. I'm not sure I've ever heard them. It might just be that too-cool-for-school thing again. Like the guy I knew in College Mk I who used to throw out the albums of bands he Used To Like when they got real record deals, i.e., Sold Out and Began Retroactively to Have Always Sucked.

Or maybe they just suck as bad as people say! It's entirely possible. Lots of bands suck and it hasn't stopped all of them from achieving commercial success. In some cases, sucking was the point all along!

Also, I must insist that the name of the other band you reference is "Mötley Crüe". If you're going to dis one of the best-selling hair-metal acts of the '80s, you might as well at least spell their name correctly wrong. :)

--G.
"Creed sucks! I hate you! And I hate the bands you like!"
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Nova Floresca
Member since Sep-13-13
169 posts
Oct-13-14, 07:32 PM (EDT)
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17. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #16
 
   >>They'll never be more than "eh, it's better than
>>commercials" music to me, because they were all dead (or oxidized
>>until moot) by the time I was old enough to listen to music and care.
>
>I'd just like to point out that, in an age of recording technologies
>and the rampant atemporality they bring with them, this is a damned
>silly thing to say.

Gonna try this again, because I wasn't able to articulate it the first time, and I was hoping it would come through via context from the thread itself. The power of a music act is derived in part from connection and relevance; the best recording in the world can't replicate the intensity of feeling generated from being present at a live show, and in my experience, a lot of people who are very zealous about a band are really hooked on that live-show feeling. In the same vein, many acts use their music as a platform to speak out about contemporary issues, and again, those messages just don't resonate as strongly to someone who didn't directly experience those issues and/or isn't keyed in to the lingo used. Incidentally, this is why most critical readings of the "great texts" start with a thorough study of history (and sometimes learning a new language or two).

>Also, I must insist that the name of the other band you reference is
>"Mötley Crüe". If you're going to dis one of the
>best-selling hair-metal acts of the '80s, you might as well at least
>spell their name correctly wrong. :)

Is there an easier method of generating an umlaut than the "1) Open a word processor. 2) Go to 'special characters' and select the appropriate vowel. 3) Copy and paste the vowel into the text field. 4) Hope the forum software in question didn't decide to do anything else goofy because of the external text source." method I'm currently using?

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."


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Gryphonadmin
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15116 posts
Oct-13-14, 07:44 PM (EDT)
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20. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #17
 
   >Is there an easier method of generating an umlaut than the "1) Open a
>word processor. 2) Go to 'special characters' and select the
>appropriate vowel. 3) Copy and paste the vowel into the text field. 4)
>Hope the forum software in question didn't decide to do anything else
>goofy because of the external text source." method I'm currently
>using?

There sure is!

(Note that a lot of the most common diacriticals have intuitive amper entities in addition to the purely numerical ones - (amper)ouml(semi) and so on. I've only memorized the numbers for a couple of the non-intuitive ones I use most often, most notably ī and ō (299 and 333 respectively), so I refer to that document quite often.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Nova Floresca
Member since Sep-13-13
169 posts
Oct-13-14, 07:49 PM (EDT)
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21. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #20
 
   Aha! Thank you, that's most helpful.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."


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VoidRandom
Member since Dec-9-02
81 posts
Oct-13-14, 07:33 PM (EDT)
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18. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #1
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-14 AT 07:58 PM (EDT)
 
>Is it wrong that I'm really glad I'm too young for Nirvana to have
>been at all relevant to me?

Yes.
Well, not so much wrong, but it shows an underdeveloped sense of history.

>I mean, they were fine music-makers and all. But Christ on a bike,
>Gen-X'ers talk about Cobain like he single-handedly saved music as we
>know it. And it's like "is this a cultural thing? Would I be part of
>your weird cult too if I'd been born in the seventies, talking about
>the pilgrimage I made to Kurt's grave in '97 and still muttering
>angrily about Soundgarden's breakup?"

TL;DR - Yes, it's cultural/generational, at least for the musically inclined.

I would argue that what you are seeing is residue of the fall of Rock n' Roll from the primary mainstream popular form to a secondary one, replaced by Rap, Hip-Hop and their descendants. Similar to, if less extreme than, what happened to Jazz and Swing. Grunge was one of the last gasps of primary Rock popularity, so it and its representative bands stand out in their memories. It was particularly hard for many Gen-Xers as there was no time in their experience when one Rock form or another wasn't primary so they had no memory of previous transitions to help them accept it.

You see similar stuff in different cohorts: boomers arguing Beatles/Stones, their parents arguing Bop vs. Swing, Rap fans and East Coast/West Coast, mourning for Buddy Holly, etc.

-VR
"If you think that you are too old to Rock 'n Roll, then you are." - Lemmy Kilmister
"They copied all they could follow, but they couldn't copy my mind,
And I left 'em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind."

edit: typo patrol


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Gryphonadmin
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15116 posts
Oct-13-14, 07:52 PM (EDT)
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22. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #18
 
   >You see similar stuff in different cohorts: boomers arguing
>Beatles/Stones

Which is pretty funny to those of us, in and after that generation, who recognize that the Who in its prime was a greater band than either. :)

>mourning for Buddy Holly

There's a reference to this in my father's favorite movie, American Graffiti, which is set in the summer of 1962: when John Milner's passenger turns on the radio in his car and the Beach Boys are playing, he turns it back off and says, "I can't stand that surf shit. Rock and roll's been goin' downhill ever since Buddy Holly died."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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VoidRandom
Member since Dec-9-02
81 posts
Oct-13-14, 09:05 PM (EDT)
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23. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #22
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-14 AT 09:09 PM (EDT)
 
>>You see similar stuff in different cohorts: boomers arguing
>>Beatles/Stones
>
>Which is pretty funny to those of us, in and after that generation,
>who recognize that the Who in its prime was a greater band than
>either. :)

I would argue all three of the bands (in their prime) regularly passed the Donald Dunn Test of Band Quality, possibly varying in quantities transformed. <1>
The problem with listening to The Beatles now is that they've been overplayed to the point of elevator music and almost no one has the musical context to really appreciate just what they did. It's a bit like the high school kids who complain about all the clichés in Shakespeare.
Similar deal with Elvis and a host of other acts.

I was massively overexposed to Beatles music while in elementary school (f'ing young boomer teachers) and I didn't listen to them for decades after. It was only in the late 90s when a friends who is very music knowledgable with a wide breadth started educating my ears and got over my resistance.

>"I can't stand that surf shit.
> Rock and roll's been goin' downhill ever since Buddy Holly died."

My aforementioned friend has a long involved argument that rock'n'roll would probably have developed in different directions if Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens had lived. I think he's projecting the future into the past some, but there is no denying the influence Holly had, even with only one and a half years of successful career. And he was smart and ambitious and loved music and knew what sin was.<2> I can't see him having no influence, particularly as he aged into writer and producer roles<3>...he'd be 78 if he was still alive today....just reaching the end of his career.

-VR
<1> Goat Piss. Gasoline. You know the rest.
<2> "But Lubbock will by-God let you know what sin is. So you can go out and do it, and enjoy it."
<3> "I have a sound in my head, and so far it’s not like anything we’ve done here." — The Buddy Holly Story

"They copied all they could follow, but they couldn't copy my mind,
And I left 'em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind."


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Croaker
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477 posts
Oct-14-14, 00:04 AM (EDT)
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25. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #18
 
   Meh.

Confession is good for the soul, they say.

I am, shall we say, rather /late/ coming to the rock scene at all.

I am - you may turn away in shock and hide your eyes, now - a Folkie.

I grew up on Gordon Bok, Pete Seeger, Tommy Makem, Peter Paul & Mary, Ian & Sylvia, and their ilk. My closest exposure to rock was Simon & Garfunkel. Which, well.

In college, I got into Filk - Heather Alexander, Leslie Fish, Mercedes Lackey, et al. Printed up the Black Book of Ioseph of Locksley. Anyone who's been a SCAdian knows what of I speak.

I also got into Celtica - Enya, Clannad, Loreena McKennit, etc. And some stuff that is technically classified as 'Folk Rock' - Fairport Convention, Steeleye Span, and so forth.

And I got introduced to the first metal band that made me give a damn, which was Warlock. It took 80's East German Death Metal to get me over the old "rock is just noise" phase, folks.

Even today, I only collect a tiny handful of bands. Iced Earth, Dragonforce, that's ... pretty much it, right now. I'll listen to other bands if they're on the radio, or if someone else is playing it.

But it just doesn't drive me the way it does some people.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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Verbena
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477 posts
Oct-14-14, 04:07 AM (EDT)
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26. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #25
 
   Actually, this sounds precisely like my sister's taste in music. If that pattern holds, you may be interested in European symphonic metal--Nightwish, Within Temptation, Kamelot, bands like those. (Actually, I'll be going to see Kamelot and Dragonforce co-headlining next April.)

--------

this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
now
let everything be destroyed

--mu


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BobSchroeck
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2083 posts
Oct-14-14, 08:47 AM (EDT)
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28. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #26
 
   >Actually, this sounds precisely like my sister's taste in music. If
>that pattern holds, you may be interested in European symphonic
>metal--Nightwish, Within Temptation, Kamelot, bands like those.
>(Actually, I'll be going to see Kamelot and Dragonforce co-headlining
>next April.)

Seconding this -- sounds like one of the branches in my particular musical preference tree almost exactly.

Look also into Tempest, if you haven't already stumbled over them via the Leslie Fish-Heather Alexander*-Mercedes Lackey connection.

-- Bob
* Hand over heart for the former Heather's now-lost voice. One must do what is right and true for oneself, but Heather's gender reassignment stole that voice from us and replaced it with one not quite so wonderful; for that reason alone I allow myself to occasionally wish she had not undergone reassignment.
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Terminus Est
Member since Nov-5-04
307 posts
Oct-14-14, 11:55 AM (EDT)
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29. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #28
 
   You might also want to consider Blackmore's Night. They've got some good stuff in the folk-rock band.


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Verbena
Charter Member
477 posts
Oct-14-14, 12:22 PM (EDT)
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30. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #29
 
   My sister got our dad (who's taste runs from John Denver to Loreena McKennitt and not much farther) into Blackmore's Night. =) A little soft for my taste, I admit.


>You might also want to consider Blackmore's Night. They've got some
>good stuff in the folk-rock band.

--------

this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
now
let everything be destroyed

--mu


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Croaker
Charter Member
477 posts
Oct-14-14, 03:48 PM (EDT)
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31. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #29
 
   >You might also want to consider Blackmore's Night. They've got some
>good stuff in the folk-rock band.

Can't believe I forgot to mention them, yeah.

I got into their stuff a few months ago. They have a few full albums and even concerts up on youtube, it's on my "play while goofing around the house" setlist.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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Peter Eng
Charter Member
1046 posts
Oct-14-14, 04:18 AM (EDT)
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27. "RE: y'know..."
In response to message #25
 
   >
>In college, I got into Filk - Heather Alexander, Leslie Fish, Mercedes
>Lackey, et al. Printed up the Black Book of Ioseph of Locksley. Anyone
>who's been a SCAdian knows what of I speak.
>

Isn't that Joe Bethancourt? *sigh*

He's one of the reasons I respect good banjo players.

Peter Eng
--
And now, he's only recordings and memories.


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