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Subject: "BPGD: ROGERS, Steve" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Gryphonadmin
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Aug-08-03, 02:57 PM (EDT)
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"BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
 
   LAST EDITED ON 08-08-03 AT 03:34 PM (EDT)
 
[Kris Overstreet contributed to the development of this file; the illustration is by the Forum's own Dave Menard! --G.]

Babylon Project Galactic Database
Text Data Extraction Search: International Police Personnel Files
Personnel Data: ROGERS, Steven A.
SEARCH COMPLETE: JUNE 15, 2409

Full name: Steven Anthony Rogers
Also known as: Captain America
Date of birth: February 17, 1923
Place of birth: New York, New York, Earth
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 210 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Blond
Adjusted Wolfe-DeKok Intelligence Index: 120

Date of IPO Induction: October 5, 2397
Division of service: Criminal Investigations Division
Grade: Deputy Chief for CID Operations
Test of Light administered: October 5, 2397
Other special qualifications/certifications:

- Starship master's certificate, Republic of Zeta Cygni
- Master of self-developed form of hand-to-hand combat incorporating elements from a number of different styles
- Special operations fieldcraft, commando operations, small unit tactics, and demolitions training
- Military training most recently updated at Royal Salusian Armed Forces training complex on Gienda Prime under the supervision of Colonel Niklaas Furij of Her Majesty's Howling Brigade, 2397-98
- RSAF jump and special infantry training
- RSAF Fixed Configuration Starfighter rating
- RSAF Elite Autonomous Battleforce Certification

Description: Steve Rogers is a tall, athletic human male who appears to be, by modern standards, a youthful hundred twenty or so - past his prime, but not far past and very well-maintained. His face is somewhat lined, and his blond hair, which he wears in a rather severe crew cut, is starting to gray at the temples, but he is still tall, still broad-shouldered and still a perfect specimen of human physical conditioning. When at work, he wears a black suit with a white shirt and black necktie, and a small enamel pin in the shape of Captain America's shield in his left lapel.

Notes: In 1941, Steve Rogers was a sickly, scrawny, but intensely patriotic young man who was horrified at the spectre of war and oppression that was sweeping across Europe in the wake of the conquering Nazi forces. He tried to volunteer for the armed forces, but was rejected as 4-F. A recruiting officer with clearance to special projects overheard Rogers's impassioned pleas to be allowed to serve his country and recruited him for the top-secret Operation Rebirth.

The Super-Soldier treatment turned Rogers into a perfect human physical specimen, the absolute pinnacle of conditioning. Unfortunately, the scientist who developed it was murdered by a Fifth Columnist, and he took the secret of the treatment to his grave - so the United States would have to make do with a simgle super-soldier. Rigorously trained in hand-to-hand and armed combat, stealth, subterfuge, demolitions, and anything else the Army could think of, Steve Rogers became Captain America, a one-man OSS battalion wrapped up in a costume derived from the American flag.

Armed with his soon-to-be-famous shield (made of an irreproducible alloy created accidentally by Canadian metallurgist Myron MacLain), Captain America quickly became the scourge of Nazi saboteurs at home and, later, Nazi troops abroad. He never managed to get final authorization to complete his ultimate mission - the capture of Adolf Hitler - but his contribution to the war effort was immense nonetheless.

In the closing days of the war, Rogers was assigned to infiltrate and destroy a rocket facility deep in the heart of Germany, from which desperate Nazi scientists were preparing to launch an experimental rocket, the A-10, as part of an operation codenamed Projekt Amerika. Designed to reach North America and fitted with Germany's first and only atomic warhead, the A-10 would, if successful, destroy Washington, D.C. and, its builders hoped, throw the US war effort into chaos.

The A-10's final stage, planned as a manned spacecraft before being pressed into use for Projekt Amerika, had a control cabin, which the Germans had converted into a warhead by hastily cramming their prototype bomb into it. Rogers was unable to prevent the missile's launch, but he did manage to get aboard the spacecraft; once there, knowing that he was probably doomed, he tampered with the guidance system in hopes of making the rocket crash into the ocean.

Instead, his tampering caused the missile to burn wildly out of control, escaping Earth's gravity altogether and hurtling irretrievably out into the Solar system. Worse, while Rogers was trying to gain control of the rocket, the hasty modifications to the crew compartment to accommodate the atom bomb showed their shortcomings. The hatch, accidentally bent during the modification, failed, releasing the compartment's atmosphere to space.

The saddest irony was that Captain America's greatest achievement was not known of for centuries. With his disappearance and the deaths of most of the Germans involved with Projekt Amerika, Nazi Germany passed into history as having never developed an intercontinental ballistic missile or an atomic bomb, despite well-documented attempts at both.

The Projekt Amerika spacecraft was discovered four hundred years later by a United Earth starship on a routine patrol. The crew of the UES Saskatoon were somewhat taken aback to discover an ancient atomic weapon in the old spacecraft (fortunately, its sustained deep-freeze had entirely disabled it), and more surprised still to find a living man frozen solid, his enhanced physique sustaining just enough activity to permit his revival using then-modern medical technology.

At that time Earth was at its most vulnerable: its space defense forces all but destroyed, its nations at cold or hot war with one another, and the galaxy politically falling apart around it. In the hours after his revival, Captain Rogers demonstrated his incredible fighting skills and resourcefulness in foiling an assassination attempt, thwarting an invasion fleet, and fighting off a small pirate fleet with only two starfighters. When the Aegis world government at Olympus (not to be confused with the modern AEGIS psionic defense agency) formally recruited Rogers, he jumped at the chance to defend his homeworld.

For many years Captain Rogers acted as a special agent for Earth, unraveling plots against Earth from outer space. He also worked as an agent within Olympus, foiling spies and assassins among the diplomatic corps and helping to establish the ESWAT police unit. Finally, he began the reconstruction of the small, elite starfighter force which represented the core of Earth's defenses during this critical period.

The ascendancy of the United Federation of Planets finally brought an end to Rogers's adventures, and in 2375 he was given a desk job as intelligence analyst and administrator for Aegis's special operations division. Before long he resigned his commission and retired, entering the civilian workforce as an artist. Original Rogers paintings generally feature three themes: the beauty of space, the horror of war, and the homely, mundane qualities of American culture during peacetime, all rendered in a fine, loving hand.

Rogers survived the orbital bombardment that destroyed the Olympus arcologies, becoming one of the leaders of the resistance to the GENOM occupation of Earth. With the rise of the Earth Alliance, Rogers returned once more to the private sector, but remained there for only a few years before becoming one of the earliest recruits for the International Police Organization, whose founder, Benjamin "Gryphon" Hutchins, had known him in passing back in the 2350s.

Steve Rogers is a man of great courage and unbending integrity, and a strong streak of patriotism is inherent to his character. The country he gave his loyalty so unstintingly to, the United States of America, no longer exists thanks to the Earth Alliance's abolishment of nations within its borders, but Rogers remains devoted to the ideals he believes the USA represented at its best moments. More than that, though, he is a libertarian in a broader sense, believing in the essential right of freedom and security for all sentient beings.

Thanks to the Super-Soldier treatment he underwent in 1941, Steve Rogers is a perfect human specimen, flawlessly balanced in muscle development, reflex and reaction speeds, agility and balance. He does not need to work to maintain this conditioning, though he does work out regularly anyway, simply because he enjoys the exercise (and it keeps his skills sharp). He does age, but slowly, and without much of the degeneration expected with advancing age. At a total biological age of 86 (equivalent, for a twentieth-century human, to the modern age of about 150) he is still fitter, stronger, and faster than almost any other non-powered human being.

Rogers has extensive training in hand-to-hand combat, weapons, marksmanship, demolitions, small-unit and commando tactics, stealth and infiltration techniques, disguise, electronic intelligence, and many other areas of military and espionage expertise. He was designed to be a one-man Special Forces squad and that's exactly what he still is. He is also an able administrator and a natural leader, with an innate talent for gaining trust, motivating, and inspiring people by his example.

Though he is humanly perfect, Rogers is not a superman. He has physical limitations and he can exceed them. Fortunately, he is an excellent athlete and well aware of his limitations; he knows exactly what he can demand of his body and exactly what he will have to pay if he requires more than that.

Captain America's shield, an aerodynamic disc made of a unique alloy, is all but indestructible and has certain unique physical properties. It reflects or absorbs impacts against its face with great effectiveness, passing very little energy through, and if struck edge-on, it reflects almost all the energy inflicted. The former property makes it even more effective as a shield than its indestructibility implies, and the latter, coupled with its aerodynamic shape, means that it can be used as a thrown weapon of great sophistication. In the hands of a master like Rogers, the shield can make beautifully elaborate caroms and finish its flight in exactly the place he wants it. His standing record is fifteen knockouts in a single throw.

Since Rogers is no longer an active field agent, he does not routinely carry the shield any longer. Recently, he has made an indefinite loan of it to Expert of Justice Paige (Spitfire) Guthrie, and is training her in its use.

Current assignment: As Deputy Chief for Criminal Investigations, Steve Rogers heads up the IPO's major-crimes investigative unit, the CID. He also participates in the training of CID and Tactical Division operatives seeking to reach the higher echelons of the IPO, and in the guidance of the agents of Special Assignment 7 (Chief's Discretion), who seek to become Experts of Justice. He still enters the field, but only rarely.

End of Text Data Extract
thank you for using the
Babylon Project Galactic Database


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve ed_becerra Aug-08-03 1
     RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Gryphonadmin Aug-08-03 3
  RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Shaithisx Aug-08-03 2
     RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve StClair Aug-08-03 6
         RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve ed_becerra Aug-08-03 7
         RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve BobSchroeck Aug-08-03 8
  RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve jadmire Aug-08-03 4
  RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve ed_becerra Aug-08-03 5
     RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Bakadring Aug-08-03 9
  RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Matrix Dragon Aug-11-03 10
     RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Gryphonadmin Aug-11-03 11
         RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Bakadring Aug-11-03 14
  RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve trigger Aug-11-03 12
     RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Bakadring Aug-11-03 13
         RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Gryphonadmin Aug-11-03 15
             RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Bakadring Aug-12-03 16
                 RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Gryphonadmin Aug-12-03 17
                 RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Nathan Aug-12-03 18
                     RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve trigger Aug-12-03 19
             RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve trigger Aug-12-03 21
             RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Redneck Aug-12-03 22
                 RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve Gryphonadmin Aug-12-03 23
         RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve trigger Aug-12-03 20

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ed_becerra
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Aug-08-03, 03:28 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #0
 
  
Wonderfully done, Gryph. Your best work along
these lines to date.

It feels somewhat melancholy to me.. the thought
that Captain America would EVER retire from active
service in the field is inevitable, yet depressing.
I'd like to think that Captain America, if not killed
in battle, would simply go on forever. Childish of
me, I suppose.

Tying the A-10 into the storyline works VERY well.
I have a copy of an old set of blueprints for
the two stage variant of the V-2, the same prints
Brian Ford used to write his excellent work on
the subject of German secret weapons.

I hope to see Steve in the future stories. It
looks like you plan on giving him some air time,
and I can't wait to see your plans for him.
Thanks!

(Tho the thought of the Shield in the hands of
ANYONE other than Steve is.. disquieting. Ah,
well, maybe it's just me.)

OT and BTW.. did you catch the news about the
(semi) intact bunker just discovered under Berlin's
Templehoff airport? Reports have it filled with
a number of aircraft, including some experimental
models the Nazi government stashed there in the
hopes of the rise of a Fourth Reich.

(Feeling any urge to get your hands on a
restorable ME-262? I know I am. ^_^ )

Edward A Becerra


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Gryphonadmin
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22411 posts
Aug-08-03, 03:41 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #1
 
   >It feels somewhat melancholy to me.. the thought
>that Captain America would EVER retire from active
>service in the field is inevitable, yet depressing.
>I'd like to think that Captain America, if not killed
>in battle, would simply go on forever. Childish of
>me, I suppose.

Well, hey, c'mon, it's not like he's dead or anything. He's just taking it easier. (Mind you, that still means he's maintaining a pace of life that would kill most college kids. :)

>(Tho the thought of the Shield in the hands of
>ANYONE other than Steve is.. disquieting. Ah,
>well, maybe it's just me.)

You're probably just still scarred from the "Super-Patriot" storyline. Don't worry about it; Paige is no John Walker. (For one thing, she has the shield with his permission, which was sort of lacking in the Walker incident... :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Shaithisx
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43 posts
Aug-08-03, 03:37 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #0
 
   Of course, I loved seeing one of my favorite heroes show up like this. It's a nice touch that he's not looking like a thirty year-old. He's been around longer and the history he has fits well. I especially liked how you got him preserved. Nice touch.

>Since Rogers is no longer an active field agent, he does not routinely
>carry the shield any longer. Recently, he has made an indefinite loan
>of it to Expert of Justice Paige (Spitfire) Guthrie, and
>is training her in its use.

Ah good! I figured Spitfire would end up with a shield after the last story but that is just perfect. I would love to see her getting the shield (well, actually, it would probably be a bit dull... since she would be so tongue-tied at meeting him and getting such a high honor)

Damn, but I love the way you write!

ShaithisX (the comic geek)

In Chaos, there is Opportunity


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StClair
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833 posts
Aug-08-03, 08:04 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #2
 
   >I especially
>liked how you got him preserved. Nice touch.

When the idea was being tossed around on the studio channel, we joked about the similarity to a certain other Captain Rogers.

"In a freak mishap, his life support systems were frozen by temperatures beyond imagination..."



Kelly St.Clair
Usual Suspect/Set Ninja

Eyrie Productions, Unlimited

"i love this show."


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ed_becerra
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Aug-08-03, 09:28 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #6
 
   >>I especially liked how you got him preserved. Nice touch.
>
>When the idea was being tossed around on the studio channel, we joked
>about the similarity to a certain other Captain Rogers.
>
>"In a freak mishap, his life support systems were frozen by
>temperatures beyond imagination..."

That is just SO scary on SO many levels... ^_^

Particularly as Buck seems to suffer from Kirk-itis, the
uncontrollable urge to ... err... "romance" everything
even remotely female & humanoid.

Gil Gerard running around in UF. I'm not sure if I should
shudder at the very thought, or hope he _does_ appear.

Heh.

Edward A Becerra


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BobSchroeck
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2258 posts
Aug-08-03, 09:29 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #6
 
   >>I especially
>>liked how you got him preserved. Nice touch.
>When the idea was being tossed around on the studio channel, we joked
>about the similarity to a certain other Captain Rogers.
>"In a freak mishap, his life support systems were frozen by
>temperatures beyond imagination..."

I was just about to comment on that. I remember the old TV series (and the hastily-released theatrical movie that launched it) very well -- I even have the theme song in MP3 format somewhere...

-- Bob
-------------------
There is no spork.


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jadmire
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Aug-08-03, 06:19 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #0
 
   Way cool, indeed! Let's see - I seem to remember you said once that Kate is a reservist in the CID. That would make Steve her boss (and also, unless I'm much mistaken, Saionji's C.O. as well, since "Constable" is a CID rank if I remember my IPO rank tables right). I don't doubt that the Captain still keeps up an exceptionally active pace; anybody who slacks off with Big Fire to contend with is asking for trouble.

Seems to me, though, that Steve must be experiencing something of a feeling of deja vu when he contemplates the Psi Corps, the Church of Man, and their ilk. And the day when Clark wiped out the remnants of the USA's independence, along with that of all the rest of Earth's nations, must have been a particularly bad one for him, though I don't doubt he'd seen the signs of such an event coming for a long time...

-Joe-


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ed_becerra
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Aug-08-03, 07:15 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #0
 
   Almost forgot.. EXCELLENT artwork for Steve. Dave really comes
through again! This is EXACTLY how I'd pictured Steve at middle
age, and it strongly reminds me of that one story I dimly
recall of a Marvel alternate where Steve was never frozen
and lived through the 50's, 60's and 70's as Captain America.

(Does anyone remember that one? About all I can recall of it
is that it existed, and one scene that shows Steve and the
Falcon walking side by side in civilian clothing, Steve
having thrown his jacket over one shoulder...)

Kudos, Dave.. you're a great artist! Where did you get the
idea for the little Shield he's wearing on his suit jacket?
You've shown him as the sort of man I'd follow to Hell and
back, just for the honor of being able to say "I once served
with Captain America."

OT - Mind telling me what you'd like to be bribed with? I'd
really like to see what you could do with a description of
Aili's online character.

(I try to get great online artists to do portraits of her to
cheer her up.. chemotherapy may help save lives, but to be
honest, it could qualify as a form of torture savage enough to
amuse the PSI Corps. So far, Style Wager and Bill Holbrook have
contributed.)

Edward A Becerra


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Bakadring
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1 posts
Aug-08-03, 10:51 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #5
 
   >Kudos, Dave.. you're a great artist!

Aw, shucks.

>Where did you get the
>idea for the little Shield he's wearing on his suit jacket?
>You've shown him as the sort of man I'd follow to Hell and
>back, just for the honor of being able to say "I once served
>with Captain America."

The shield lapel pin and overall look were described to me in detail by the Chief Himself- He's had this one under his hat for a while, apparently. ^_^ The general rugged-older-man look was inspired by Batman Beyond's versions of Bruce Wayne and Superman, amongst others. For my part, I tried to work a little Alex Ross in there, too.


>OT - Mind telling me what you'd like to be bribed with? I'd
>really like to see what you could do with a description of
>Aili's online character.
>
>(I try to get great online artists to do portraits of her to
>cheer her up.. chemotherapy may help save lives, but to be
>honest, it could qualify as a form of torture savage enough to
>amuse the PSI Corps. So far, Style Wager and Bill Holbrook have
>contributed.)

Contact me directly, we'll discuss it. (My e-mail addy is in my profile)

---------------------------------------------
<Wedge>: Don't merge the layers. It would be bad.

<Dave>: Define "bad".

<Wedge>: Imagine all the work you've done so far ceasing to exist and every pixel in your image exploding simultaneously at the speed of light.

<R-Type>: Total graphic reversal!

<Dave>: Okay, important safety tip, there. Thanks Wedge.

----EPU Art Crew, Photoshopping tips


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Matrix Dragon
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1893 posts
Aug-11-03, 06:35 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #0
 
   >Since Rogers is no longer an active field agent, he does not routinely
>carry the shield any longer. Recently, he has made an indefinite loan
>of it to Expert of Justice Paige (Spitfire) Guthrie, and
>is training her in its use.

Spitfire with the shield... Does one of you guys have the final issue of the What If? series by any chance? 'Cause I'm getting a lot of mental links with his daughter from that issue.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter
My LiveJournal
Everything goes better with Ninja


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Gryphonadmin
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22411 posts
Aug-11-03, 08:06 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #10
 
   >Spitfire with the shield... Does one of you guys have the final issue
>of the What If? series by any chance?

Not I. I never liked that series; it seemed like the answer to the question posed in the title was invariably "the world ends" or "superheroes are outlawed" or "oh look, Days of Future Past", even if the question was something like, "What If Daredevil Could See?"

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Bakadring
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1 posts
Aug-11-03, 07:59 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #11
 
   >>Spitfire with the shield... Does one of you guys have the final issue
>>of the What If? series by any chance?
>
>Not I. I never liked that series; it seemed like the answer to the
>question posed in the title was invariably "the world ends" or
>"superheroes are outlawed" or "oh look, Days of Future Past",
>even if the question was something like, "What If Daredevil Could
>See?"
>
>--G.

Yeah, kinda the major flaw in the premise, really- of course, it's pretty logical, given most of the "What If" questions. (What if the Avengers lost the Evolutionary War, What if the X-Men lost Inferno, etc.) If the answer had been anything other than "the world went to hell in a handbasket", then wouldn't that invalidate the heroes' struggles in the initial conflict?

I always preferred DC's "Elseworlds", since mostly the result wasn't "the world ends" or "the world goes to $#!+" but rather "the world is different, you decide whether it's better or worse". The concept gives the writer a little more freedom, and the reader a little more enjoyment.

---------------------------------------------
<Wedge>: Don't merge the layers. It would be bad.

<Dave>: Define "bad".

<Wedge>: Imagine all the work you've done so far ceasing to exist and every pixel in your image exploding simultaneously at the speed of light.

<R-Type>: Total graphic reversal!

<Dave>: Okay, important safety tip, there. Thanks Wedge.

----EPU Art Crew, Photoshopping tips


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trigger
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1500 posts
Aug-11-03, 02:51 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 08-11-03 AT 03:24 PM (EDT)
 
>[Kris Overstreet contributed to the
>development of this file; the illustration is by the Forum's own Dave
>Menard! --G.]

>
>Babylon Project Galactic Database
>Text Data Extraction Search: International Police Personnel Files
>Personnel Data: ROGERS, Steven A.
>SEARCH COMPLETE: JUNE 15, 2409

>
>

Y'know, when he was first mentioned, I thought "Steve Rodgers, Steve, Rodgers...why does that sound familiar?" Then I thought "Wonder Woman's contact in the OSS? Nah, but why does the OSS sound right?" I fell over laughing when my pathetic 56k connection started to load his image.

It's been a _long_ time since I've read or seen anything on Captain America. I must have been like, four, last time I read one of his comic books.

All I can say is cool. I guess I'm still a patriot if I love Captain America and all he originally stood for. Thanks to reserecting a decent character and saving him from the political whims of the last 30 years.

t.
who agrees with everyone - Dave your Captain American is fabulous! Even if he does looks a bit like a sane, blond Bruce Wayne (ala "Batman: the Animated Series) and his clone Superman. What is with the lantern jaw all american heros get these days? The mini-shield rocks.

p.s. The MIB look on him is good too. We really need to have a "MIBs of Eyrie" poster. I'd do it myself, but I'm not quite there yet with my drawing skills.

edit: spelling, grammar, the usual.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"These guys are as obvious as a weasel on acid." - Corwin Ravenhair


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Bakadring
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1 posts
Aug-11-03, 07:52 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #12
 
   >Y'know, when he was first mentioned, I thought "Steve Rodgers, Steve,
>Rodgers...why does that sound familiar?" Then I thought "Wonder
>Woman's contact in the OSS? Nah, but why does the OSS sound right?"
>I fell over laughing when my pathetic 56k connection started to load
>his image.

Yeah, that'd be Steve Trevor. Also a blond, blue-eyed, corn-fed American patriot.

>It's been a _long_ time since I've read or seen anything on Captain
>America. I must have been like, four, last time I read one of his
>comic books.
>
>All I can say is cool. I guess I'm still a patriot if I love
>Captain America and all he originally stood for. Thanks to
>reserecting a decent character and saving him from the political whims
>of the last 30 years.

This statement kinda gives me an opening to mention something I wanted to bring up, but wasn't sure where or how to go about it; until recently, I never felt much towards Captain America beyond ambivalence- not being an American, he never really had that sort of patriotic cachet for me. (I was more likely to revere Guardian/Vindicator or Captain Canuck on those grounds, and they never seemed all that impressive to me. Thank the comics gods -and Len Wein- that we Canadian kids had Wolverine to wave the flag for us.) Lately, though, I've begun to enjoy Cap- mostly due to Mark Millar's version of him in "The Ultimates". It really has nothing to do, for me, with what politics Cap espouses (the classic Lee/Kirby struck me, from a foreigner's perspective, as being something of a left-leaning Democrat, whereas Millar's comes off as Republican, by today's standards- I'm sure I'm misssing some of the subtler political shadings, but cut me some slack, "it's not my goddamn country, monkeyboy" ~_^.) but more that Millar's Cap seems to truly be a man from the forties, as opposed to a hero from the forties, if you dig what I'm trying to say. He's still a good man, brave, courageous, etc. but comes off as somehow truer to the spirit of his time. <shrug> Anyway, just sayin'.

>t.
>who agrees with everyone - Dave your Captain American is fabulous!
>Even if he does looks a bit like a sane, blond Bruce Wayne (ala
>"Batman: the Animated Series) and his clone Superman. What is with
>the lantern jaw all american heros get these days?

To be fair, the B:TAS look (actually, Batman Beyond in this case) was sort of the way he was described to me. The square jaw probably comes from my visualization moreso than Gryph's- the initial sketch I made for him had a more slender jawline. Personally, the "heroic chin" is just something that I tend to picture with this sort of iconic character- it wouldn't seem wholly "right" without it, IMHO.

>The mini-shield
>rocks.

Also Gryph's idea. I think (Gryph never said, one way or the other) that it's inspired by the flag lapel pin Bush II is always wearing.

---------------------------------------------
<Wedge>: Don't merge the layers. It would be bad.

<Dave>: Define "bad".

<Wedge>: Imagine all the work you've done so far ceasing to exist and every pixel in your image exploding simultaneously at the speed of light.

<R-Type>: Total graphic reversal!

<Dave>: Okay, important safety tip, there. Thanks Wedge.

----EPU Art Crew, Photoshopping tips


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Gryphonadmin
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22411 posts
Aug-11-03, 08:00 PM (EDT)
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15. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #13
 
   >Also Gryph's idea. I think (Gryph never said, one way or the
>other) that it's inspired by the flag lapel pin Bush II is always
>wearing.

Certainly not! I'm inclined to get a little huffy now. To think that you would accuse me of basing a trait for a heroic, upstanding character on some marketing effort of the Avignon President...

... well, really.

Anyway, I originally designed this version of Steve for another now-defunct project in about 1998, so, nyah. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Bakadring
Charter Member
1 posts
Aug-12-03, 08:23 AM (EDT)
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16. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #15
 
   >>Also Gryph's idea. I think (Gryph never said, one way or the
>>other) that it's inspired by the flag lapel pin Bush II is always
>>wearing.
>
>Certainly not! I'm inclined to get a little huffy now. To think that
>you would accuse me of basing a trait for a heroic, upstanding
>character on some marketing effort of the Avignon President...

<snort!> Best Bush nick EVER!

>... well, really.

Sorry. Unaware of your political leanings beyond what I can glean from your writings- and that's always a dicey assumption for a reader to make. Being Canadian, (or more specifically, having been brought up never to discuss politics or religion with relative strangers) I'm sometimes hesitant to comment one way or another about my feelings towards leaders of friendly foreign powers, or assume my perspective on them is mirrored by natives. BUT! Since you opened the gate here, I'll mention that he's always struck me as being either (if I'm feeling charitable)a well-meaning imbecile controlled by Machiavellian handlers, or (most of the time) an out-and-out crooked bastard approaching President Clarke levels of crapulence and corruption. So I didn't mean to offend- I just figured that since his nibs the Shrub had been spotted so often lately with his little lapel pin, that it seemed like the likely inspiration, fraud or not.

>Anyway, I originally designed this version of Steve for another
>now-defunct project in about 1998, so, nyah. :)

Cool, good to know.

---------------------------------------------
<Wedge>: Don't merge the layers. It would be bad.

<Dave>: Define "bad".

<Wedge>: Imagine all the work you've done so far ceasing to exist and every pixel in your image exploding simultaneously at the speed of light.

<R-Type>: Total graphic reversal!

<Dave>: Okay, important safety tip, there. Thanks Wedge.

----EPU Art Crew, Photoshopping tips


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22411 posts
Aug-12-03, 10:25 AM (EDT)
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17. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #16
 
   >>the Avignon President...
>
><snort!> Best Bush nick EVER!

I must give credit where it's due; I didn't coin it. I got it from my friend Scott Buchanan; I don't know if it's original to him.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Nathan
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1384 posts
Aug-12-03, 01:02 PM (EDT)
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18. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #16
 
   >a well-meaning imbecile controlled by Machiavellian handlers

I object! Machiavelli assumed a degree of honesty, integrity, and, hmm, moral goodness that is completely lacking in The Vegetable's puppetmasters.

Blessed be.
-n


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trigger
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1500 posts
Aug-12-03, 01:25 PM (EDT)
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19. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #18
 
   >>a well-meaning imbecile controlled by Machiavellian handlers
>
>I object! Machiavelli assumed a degree of honesty, integrity, and,
>hmm, moral goodness that is completely lacking in The Vegetable's
>puppetmasters.


Um, I disagree. Are we talking the Machiavelli of the Prince or the Machiavelli of the Discourses? Two difference audiences, two different messages. One is the Black Addlereque advisor to a monarch, the other is a determined republican. The advisor is neither honest nor an upstanding model of integrity. He wrote it to impress Lorenzo Medici and warn him away from foolish policies. You'll note that if you follow him to the logical ends, the Prince can't survive for too long.

Discourses is where Machiavelli is honest and has integrity. But's he's idealist there where he is not in the Prince.

Either way, Machiavelli speaks about morals because they help bind together the Prince's support and the republics peoples. His ability to look at them with a clear eye does not suggest moral goodness. Just intelligence and intellectual honesty.

t.


Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"These guys are as obvious as a weasel on acid." - Corwin Ravenhair


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trigger
Charter Member
1500 posts
Aug-12-03, 01:31 PM (EDT)
Click to EMail trigger Click to send private message to trigger Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
21. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #15
 
   >>Also Gryph's idea. I think (Gryph never said, one way or the
>>other) that it's inspired by the flag lapel pin Bush II is always
>>wearing.
>
>Certainly not! I'm inclined to get a little huffy now. To think that
>you would accuse me of basing a trait for a heroic, upstanding
>character on some marketing effort of the Avignon President...
>
>... well, really.

I am relieved. Infinitely relieved.

t.
who loves this title for that disaster at 1600 Penn. Ave.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"These guys are as obvious as a weasel on acid." - Corwin Ravenhair


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Redneck
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Aug-12-03, 09:16 PM (EDT)
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22. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #15
 
  
>Certainly not! I'm inclined to get a little huffy now. To think that
>you would accuse me of basing a trait for a heroic, upstanding
>character on some marketing effort of the Avignon President...

Avignon?

Redneck (hates it when he misses a political reference; I find King George III so much easier to recall & explain)

Kris Overstreet, aka Redneck Gaijin
http://www.wlpcomics.com/redneck/
White Lightning Productions - huge tracts of land for sale
http://www.wlpcomics.com


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22411 posts
Aug-12-03, 09:55 PM (EDT)
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23. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #22
 
   Look up "Avignon Pope", and take further discussion offline. I don't want to talk about the president in here. (or, in fact, at all.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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trigger
Charter Member
1500 posts
Aug-12-03, 01:29 PM (EDT)
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20. "RE: BPGD: ROGERS, Steve"
In response to message #13
 
  
>Yeah, that'd be Steve Trevor. Also a blond, blue-eyed, corn-fed
>American patriot.

<grin> I had a huge crush on him when I was 5. But, yeah, corn-fed is damn accurate. What an idiot.


>I never felt much towards Captain America beyond
>ambivalence- not being an American, he never really had that sort of
>patriotic cachet for me.......I've begun to enjoy Cap- mostly due to Mark Millar's version
>of him in "The Ultimates". It really has nothing to do, for me, with
>what politics Cap espouses (the classic Lee/Kirby struck me, from a
>foreigner's perspective, as being something of a left-leaning
>Democrat, whereas Millar's comes off as Republican, by today's
>standards- I'm sure I'm misssing some of the subtler political
>shadings, but cut me some slack, "it's not my goddamn country,
>monkeyboy" ~_^.) but more that Millar's Cap seems to truly be a
>man from the forties, as opposed to a hero from the
>forties, if you dig what I'm trying to say. He's still a good man,
>brave, courageous, etc. but comes off as somehow truer to the spirit
>of his time. <shrug> Anyway, just sayin'.


I'll just take your word for it. I've only read the oldies and I liked what I saw, but i've always been a bit of a left leaning. I appreciate the idea of Captain American more now than did when I was younger, pretty much po'd constantly at the US. I liked the anti-nazi storyline, natural since I grew up in a house with near victims of the third reich. I have no idea what they're doing now in the comic, but if they've made him more human and less perfect, and more reflective, bully.


>To be fair, the B:TAS look (actually, Batman Beyond in this case) was
>sort of the way he was described to me. The square jaw probably comes
>from my visualization moreso than Gryph's- the initial sketch I made
>for him had a more slender jawline. Personally, the "heroic chin" is
>just something that I tend to picture with this sort of iconic
>character- it wouldn't seem wholly "right" without it, IMHO.

<snicker> My god, it's become a meme!

t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"These guys are as obvious as a weasel on acid." - Corwin Ravenhair


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