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Subject: "Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-18-13, 09:59 PM (EST)
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"Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
 
   Hey gang,

Been replaying Mass Effect 2, because it's been a couple years, and having recalled the mentions in her BPGD file and Operation Archangel of her penchant for occasional fits of badassery, I thought I would note down a quick list of the ones I chose to indulge in on her behalf this time around:

- "You're workin' too hard."
- "You talk too much."
- (headbutt)
- "How 'bout goodbye?"

(I once saw a video on YouTube in which someone had turned that last into a CSI Miami credits stinger. "How 'bout goodbye?" YEEEAAAAHHHH)

If she had children, and she ever had to explain to them what she does for a living, I think the True Lies defense would end up being invoked at some point. :)

--G.
"Have you ever killed anyone?" "Yeah, but they were all bad."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CGWolfgang Jan-19-13 1
  RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery trigger Jan-19-13 2
     RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-20-13 3
  RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CdrMike Jan-20-13 4
     RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-20-13 6
         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-20-13 7
         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery laudre Jan-20-13 8
         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CdrMike Jan-20-13 9
             RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-20-13 10
                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery BeardedFerret Jan-21-13 11
                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CdrMike Jan-21-13 12
                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery laudre Jan-21-13 13
                     RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-21-13 14
                         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Matrix Dragon Jan-21-13 15
                         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Bushido Jan-21-13 16
                             RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Matrix Dragon Jan-21-13 17
                             RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery pjmoyermoderator Jan-21-13 18
                                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-21-13 19
                         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery laudre Jan-21-13 20
                         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CdrMike Jan-21-13 25
                             RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-21-13 28
                                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CdrMike Jan-21-13 30
                                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery laudre Jan-22-13 32
                         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CGWolfgang Jan-22-13 33
                             RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-23-13 34
                                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery pjmoyermoderator Jan-23-13 35
                                     RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Matrix Dragon Jan-23-13 36
                                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CGWolfgang Jan-23-13 37
                                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery laudre Jan-23-13 38
                                     RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Verbena Jan-24-13 39
                                         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery A Vile Gangster Jan-25-13 41
                             RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery BeardedFerret Jan-25-13 40
  RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery laudre Jan-20-13 5
  RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Senji Jan-21-13 21
     RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-21-13 22
     RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery pjmoyermoderator Jan-21-13 23
         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery laudre Jan-21-13 24
         RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CdrMike Jan-21-13 26
             RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery pjmoyermoderator Jan-21-13 27
             RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery Gryphonadmin Jan-21-13 29
                 RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery CdrMike Jan-21-13 31

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CGWolfgang
Member since Jun-10-09
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Jan-19-13, 01:41 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #0
 
  
> - (headbutt)

Ah I see she's fluent in Krogan.

------------
~If you want my input the red explosions are really pretty and if you did enough you might live for a few more excrutiating seconds

My not so humble contribution to cyberspace

http://cgwolfgang.deviantart.com/


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trigger
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Jan-19-13, 11:02 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #0
 
   > having recalled the mentions in her BPGD file

say what? There's a BPGD file on Shepard?

t.
who just started playing Mass Effect. And yes, it's all because of this Forum.

Trigger Argee
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games." - Corwin of Amber


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-20-13, 00:00 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #2
 
   >> having recalled the mentions in her BPGD file
>
>say what? There's a BPGD file on Shepard?

Yes there is.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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CdrMike
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Jan-20-13, 03:32 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #0
 
   Playing a Mass Effect 2 renegade run is always hilarious, if only because renegade Shepard is the epitome of the badass antihero. I can definitely see a lot of the lines fitting into Gin's story in UF.

"Our scanners are picking up false readings. They seem to think you're...dead."
"I was only 'mostly dead.' Try finding that option on government paperwork."

"I'm offering to be your friend. You don't want to be my enemy."
"They have a way of dying."

"It'll be better than the old days."
"I hope so. I died."

--------------------------
CdrMike, Shark Bait

"Did I ever tell you the definition of 'insanity'?" - Vaas Montenegro, Far Cry 3


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-20-13, 11:46 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #4
 
   >Playing a Mass Effect 2 renegade run is always hilarious, if
>only because renegade Shepard is the epitome of the badass antihero.
>I can definitely see a lot of the lines fitting into Gin's story in
>UF.

The thing about Virginia is that she's usually not a Renegade. Her overall ratio by the end of my original playthrough was about 100/20, I think. She's often sarcastic, yes, but customarily quite nice to people. Her overall temperament fits very well into the classic Itinerant Adventurer behavior pattern: enter a new community; spend a few minutes scouting around, getting the lay of the land, and identifying the people who have some kind of a problem; and then help the shit out of those people, occasionally whether they think they really want it or not.

It's just that she's entirely up for it when the vector for helping out the town (or space station, or whatever) involves the standard Zatôichi resolution of going out and personally making every bad guy in sight dead. If it'd been her blowing into Goodyear in 2356, she'd have listened politely while Scott Chen explained the problem with the Blue Suns, then rounded up Mordin to complete her squad, headed straight over to the Suns encampment, and commenced with the mayhem. Problem solved. :)

I think I've noted this before, but there's at least one moment in the original game where I wish the available dialogue had been more sarcastic. There's that moment on Feros where, if that ExoGeni executive has finally gotten on Shepard's very last nerve, she can just shoot him without even putting the game in combat mode. IIRC the man is so abrasive that it's not even a Renegade option, as such, it's just one of the things that can happen. If it does go down that way, one of the scientists says something along the lines of, "Oh great, now we're shooting each other in the back."

Every time I encountered that scene I felt the same keen regret that none of Shepard's possible answers was, "Uh, actually, I think you'll find I shot him in the face," which is absolutely what Gin said when that happened in UF-2280. :)

--G.
"I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took a Collector plasma beam in the knee."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-20-13, 03:46 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #6
 
   Oh, and speaking of dialogue that's not quite right, I ran across a great example of the unintended consequences effect the other day. A couple years ago BioWare produced a pair of alternate NPC costume packs for ME2, one of which included a fully armored battlesuit for Miranda... but no one thought to change the dialogue toward the end of her loyalty mission where the Eclipse commando snarks off about her clothes. This causes said commando to quip, "I was just waiting for you to finish getting dressed. Does Cerberus really let you whore around in that getup?" to someone who is basically dressed as a stealth version of Robogal Terri from the old Ninja High School comics.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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laudre
Member since Nov-13-06
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Jan-20-13, 07:18 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #6
 
   >There's that moment on Feros where, if that ExoGeni
>executive has finally gotten on Shepard's very last nerve, she can
>just shoot him without even putting the game in combat mode. IIRC the
>man is so abrasive that it's not even a Renegade option, as
>such, it's just one of the things that can happen.

I am reminded of the paragon interrupt in Overlord that is a pistol whip to the face. I say, again, paragon interrupt.

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-19-05
271 posts
Jan-20-13, 09:18 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #6
 
   >The thing about Virginia is that she's usually not a Renegade.
>Her overall ratio by the end of my original playthrough was about
>100/20, I think. She's often sarcastic, yes, but customarily quite
>nice to people. Her overall temperament fits very well into the
>classic Itinerant Adventurer behavior pattern: enter a new community;
>spend a few minutes scouting around, getting the lay of the land, and
>identifying the people who have some kind of a problem; and then
>help the shit out of those people, occasionally whether they
>think they really want it or not.
>
>It's just that she's entirely up for it when the vector for helping
>out the town (or space station, or whatever) involves the standard
>Zatôichi resolution of going out and personally making every bad
>guy in sight dead. If it'd been her blowing into Goodyear in 2356,
>she'd have listened politely while Scott Chen explained the problem
>with the Blue Suns, then rounded up Mordin to complete her squad,
>headed straight over to the Suns encampment, and commenced with the
>mayhem. Problem solved. :)

Now I'm reminded of Conrad Verner's little ditty when you meet him on Illium. Seeing Matriach Aethyta just facepalm when he says his wife was very "supportive" was perfect. And I wonder if Bioware has stats on the number of people who took the paragon lecture versus the renegade shot to the foot.


>I think I've noted this before, but there's at least one moment in the
>original game where I wish the available dialogue had been more
>sarcastic. There's that moment on Feros where, if that ExoGeni
>executive has finally gotten on Shepard's very last nerve, she can
>just shoot him without even putting the game in combat mode. IIRC the
>man is so abrasive that it's not even a Renegade option, as
>such, it's just one of the things that can happen. If it does go down
>that way, one of the scientists says something along the lines of, "Oh
>great, now we're shooting each other in the back."
>
>Every time I encountered that scene I felt the same keen regret that
>none of Shepard's possible answers was, "Uh, actually, I think you'll
>find I shot him in the face," which is absolutely what Gin said
>when that happened in UF-2280. :)

Ugh, Jeong, what a prat. Shooting him would have been awful tempting, but I wanted the "good" ending to the whole mess. Took my frustration out on the creepers instead.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Shark Bait

"Did I ever tell you the definition of 'insanity'?" - Vaas Montenegro, Far Cry 3


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-20-13, 09:29 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #9
 
   >Now I'm reminded of Conrad Verner's little ditty when you meet him on
>Illium. Seeing Matriach Aethyta just facepalm when he says his wife
>was very "supportive" was perfect. And I wonder if Bioware has stats
>on the number of people who took the paragon lecture versus the
>renegade shot to the foot.

I used to be annoyed that they never bothered to fix the bug whereby, even if you were nice as pie to Conrad in the first game, in the second he was under the impression that you had threatened him - until I decided it was just that he was so deranged he'd muddled up Shepard drawing her gun for the photo he took because he asked her to with threatening him with it.

(That sequence annoyed me in its own right, if only because whoever scripted it apparently forgot that, the way it's set up, Shepard is pointing her gun at Expat's store, which is surely something a professional soldier of Shepard's caliber wouldn't do.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
290 posts
Jan-21-13, 01:36 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #10
 
   >>Now I'm reminded of Conrad Verner's little ditty when you meet him on
>>Illium. Seeing Matriach Aethyta just facepalm when he says his wife
>>was very "supportive" was perfect. And I wonder if Bioware has stats
>>on the number of people who took the paragon lecture versus the
>>renegade shot to the foot.
>
>I used to be annoyed that they never bothered to fix the bug whereby,
>even if you were nice as pie to Conrad in the first game, in the
>second he was under the impression that you had threatened him - until
>I decided it was just that he was so deranged he'd muddled up Shepard
>drawing her gun for the photo he took because he asked her to
>with threatening him with it.

I just used that bug as an excuse to be a huge dick to Conrad in all subsequent ME1 playthroughs. The boy's gotta learn.


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-19-05
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Jan-21-13, 01:49 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #10
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-13 AT 01:49 AM (EST)
 
>I used to be annoyed that they never bothered to fix the bug whereby,
>even if you were nice as pie to Conrad in the first game, in the
>second he was under the impression that you had threatened him - until
>I decided it was just that he was so deranged he'd muddled up Shepard
>drawing her gun for the photo he took because he asked her to
>with threatening him with it.
>
>(That sequence annoyed me in its own right, if only because whoever
>scripted it apparently forgot that, the way it's set up, Shepard is
>pointing her gun at Expat's store, which is surely something a
>professional soldier of Shepard's caliber wouldn't do.)

Not sure if you've played ME3 yet, but assuming you don't wind up getting him killed by the time the third game comes along, you run into him again. And Bioware has him acknowledge the bug by saying (essentially) that his head was all screwed up at the time from stress and poor living.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Shark Bait

"Did I ever tell you the definition of 'insanity'?" - Vaas Montenegro, Far Cry 3


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laudre
Member since Nov-13-06
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Jan-21-13, 09:57 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #10
 
   >I used to be annoyed that they never bothered to fix the bug whereby,
>even if you were nice as pie to Conrad in the first game, in the
>second he was under the impression that you had threatened him - until
>I decided it was just that he was so deranged he'd muddled up Shepard
>drawing her gun for the photo he took because he asked her to
>with threatening him with it.

That's actually BioWare's take on it, in ME3. (If he doesn't get himself killed in ME2, that is.)

If you haven't played ME3 yet, be warned: there's enough of a good game in it that I played through it twice (so far), but there's enough of a bad game in it to leave a really foul taste in one's mouth. The updated endings help, in the sense that if they'd been the endings that had been released it would've been "good series with an underwhelming ending" as opposed to BioWare apparently trying to prove that they can alienate their fanbase more effectively than George Lucas.

(It still didn't make up for Kai Fucking Leng.)

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-21-13, 02:08 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #13
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-13 AT 02:09 PM (EST)
 
>If you haven't played ME3 yet, be warned: there's enough of a good
>game in it that I played through it twice (so far), but there's enough
>of a bad game in it to leave a really foul taste in one's
>mouth.

I haven't, mainly because I have heard things to that effect before. (And I once read a rebuttal of sorts to same from someone at BioWare in which the BioWare guy basically busted out the Anno Defense (roughly, "it doesn't matter if you enjoy it, it's art"), which is (as always) such bollocks I'm surprised it's not served as a novelty item in cowboy-themed restaurants.) I decided at the time that, if I was going to be made to throw something across the room, I would at least not pay list price for the privilege, and have been waiting for it to fall off the old-game cost cliff.

From all that I've read on the matter, it all sounds very similar to the jaw-droppingly unsatisfactory way in which Fallout 3 ended before they fixed it with the Broken Steel DLC, only it appears BioWare is On Its Dignity and outright refusing to DTRT in similar fashion because You Just Don't Get It. Which I guess is Bethsoft 1, BioWare 0 on that scoreboard, though in fairness to BioWare I should acknowledge that their game engine is a lot more reliable. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Matrix Dragon
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Jan-21-13, 03:07 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #14
 
   >From all that I've read on the matter, it all sounds very similar to
>the jaw-droppingly unsatisfactory way in which Fallout 3 ended
>before they fixed it with the Broken Steel DLC, only it appears
>BioWare is On Its Dignity and outright refusing to DTRT in similar
>fashion because You Just Don't Get It. Which I guess is Bethsoft 1,
>BioWare 0 on that scoreboard, though in fairness to BioWare I should
>acknowledge that their game engine is a lot more reliable. :)

I'd say Fallout 3's plothole was bigger, if only because I was carrying enough Rad-X to put out the sun. Mass Effect 3's ending I more or less liked, mostly because I'd suspected ever since ME1 there was never going to be a 'clean' ending, and that explaining the origins of the Reapers was always going to be asking for trouble. The only problems I had is that there should have been more of a leadup to the final options, and Bioware was being a bit too vague with the aftermath, deciding to leave it to peoples imaginations. So everyone apparently decided that everyone in the galaxy died horribly and alone.

Man. People are bitter and depressing sometimes.

Still, they gave an expanded ending with more details, and it's amazing how much I'd be willing to forgive for the chance to talk TIM into pulling a Saren on himself :)

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Bushido
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Jan-21-13, 03:37 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #14
 
   All I'll say to that is that there was so much controversy over the ending, that it overshadowed the fact that every bit of the game before it was amazing. There are still scenes that get me every time I see them.

--------
Wedge Defense Force General Order 12: "Try to avoid freaking the mundanes."


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Matrix Dragon
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Jan-21-13, 03:39 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #16
 
   >All I'll say to that is that there was so much controversy over the
>ending, that it overshadowed the fact that every bit of the game
>before it was amazing. There are still scenes that get me every time
>I see them.

And this thread reminds me that Conrad's definitely one of them.

"Conrad, if you have some kind of creepy shrine of me, I will be very upset."
"...Just a poster and some candles. It's very tasteful."
"GUH..."

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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pjmoyermoderator
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Jan-21-13, 03:49 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #16
 
   >All I'll say to that is that there was so much controversy over the
>ending, that it overshadowed the fact that every bit of the game
>before it was amazing. There are still scenes that get me every time
>I see them.

Although I haven't finished Mass Effect 3 (I have a bad habit of not finishing games if I don't knuckle down and monofocus on one at a time before another comes along), I've gotten to just before Rannoch, and can definitely vouch there's lots of good stuff in there. There's also some amount of dross, but ymmv as usual, and I admit some bias having been spoilered enough by TVTropes and fanfic to know what happenes at the end.

I haven't been keeping track of pricing of the game and the DLC's recently, but given it's been nearly a year since launch, it should have gone down to a more reasonable price bracket (and be widely available at used game stores), so all you who haven't picked it up yet can take the plunge.

--- Philip
(Tuchanka alone is worth the trip! And the comedy team of Javik and anybody else...)





Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Shiny Happy Krogan Babies!"


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-21-13, 04:00 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #18
 
   >Tuchanka alone is worth the trip!

"Nobody's ever said that."

"No, I don't suppose they have."

- Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond; Top Gear Series 812, Episode 7, introduction to Segment 3 ("Tomkah")

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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laudre
Member since Nov-13-06
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Jan-21-13, 04:18 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #14
 
   >I haven't, mainly because I have heard things to that effect before.
>(And I once read a rebuttal of sorts to same from someone at BioWare
>in which the BioWare guy basically busted out the Anno Defense
>(roughly, "it doesn't matter if you enjoy it, it's
>art"), which is (as always) such bollocks I'm surprised it's
>not served as a novelty item in cowboy-themed restaurants.) I decided
>at the time that, if I was going to be made to throw something across
>the room, I would at least not pay list price for the privilege, and
>have been waiting for it to fall off the old-game cost cliff.

I think it started going on sale within a month or two of release, mostly because of word of mouth about the ending. (Hell, there were digital distributors offering refunds for the PC version, including, IIRC, Amazon.) I saw the $80-at-launch PS3 collector's edition (N7 Special Edition) going for $30, new, at a GameStop yesterday.

The funny thing about it? Even most of the bad stuff isn't irredeemable (similar to how ME2's plot doesn't hold up well to solid criticism, but everything else in the game by and large makes one not care), and they could've ended it in once place that would've felt open and ambiguous but would have worked wonderfully... except they then follow it with a sequence that utterly and completely flies in the face of the driving themes of all 2.99 games up to that point. Reportedly, Casey Hudson and Mac Walters locked themselves away from everyone else, and put together this ending with no other input from any of the other writers involved (at least one of whom is a much better writer than the two of them put together on their best day), and rushed it through production or something to preserve their Artistic Vision. It's not the first place in the game I wanted to smack the writer responsible, and smack them hard (anything involving Kai Fucking Leng, for example, also merits such), but it's the last thing in the game you see, so there's nothing that can happen afterwards to undo it. (At least, for example, with Kai Fucking Leng, when you finally have your last showdown with him it is immensely satisfying.)

I can't say it was a waste of my time or money, as such, but the longer it went between my first game and my New Game+ completing, the more I could chew on the ending and figure out new ways it sucked, so by the time the extended ending dropped I couldn't bring myself to want to play through the rather-annoying endgame sequence to get to the new endings. I also haven't bothered getting any of the DLC, for that matter.

I've still got some playthroughs left, though, starting with the first game.

As for the Art Defense: before we can consider something as a work of art... well, I can't evaluate something as art if it fails as a work of craft. There are a lot of nuts and bolts to creating a plot, and there are even objective criteria, well established in everything from professional screenwriting to literary and critical theory, by which one can determine the quality of its craftsmanship. This is a separate thing from how much one might personally enjoy it, but people have been doing this fiction thing, long enough and in such volume, that there is a why and wherefore when an ending falls flat, or when something feels tense vs. tedious. Big parts of the main plot in ME3 fail in some very basic ways -- like, screenwriting 101 ways -- and ... well, beyond that, you can't say we hate it because we don't get it if we can demonstrate that, yes, we do in fact get it, and we can explain it back to you, followed by an eloquent and articulate takedown of why it sucks.

(This isn't me who did the takedown, of course; there's a poster at another forum I frequent who is a professional writer in the film and television industry who wrote up a very approachable -- for us not versed in the nuts and bolts of the craft -- short essay on what's wrong with the ME3 plot, and why it fails.)

Eh, that's not to say it's not worth playing. It is. But what makes it worth playing are a whole lot of things that are tangential to the primary arc.

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-19-05
271 posts
Jan-21-13, 08:34 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #14
 
   >I haven't, mainly because I have heard things to that effect before.
>(And I once read a rebuttal of sorts to same from someone at BioWare
>in which the BioWare guy basically busted out the Anno Defense
>(roughly, "it doesn't matter if you enjoy it, it's
>art"), which is (as always) such bollocks I'm surprised it's
>not served as a novelty item in cowboy-themed restaurants.) I decided
>at the time that, if I was going to be made to throw something across
>the room, I would at least not pay list price for the privilege, and
>have been waiting for it to fall off the old-game cost cliff.
>
>From all that I've read on the matter, it all sounds very similar to
>the jaw-droppingly unsatisfactory way in which Fallout 3 ended
>before they fixed it with the Broken Steel DLC, only it appears
>BioWare is On Its Dignity and outright refusing to DTRT in similar
>fashion because You Just Don't Get It. Which I guess is Bethsoft 1,
>BioWare 0 on that scoreboard, though in fairness to BioWare I should
>acknowledge that their game engine is a lot more reliable. :)

I don't know, after playing New Vegas and hearing the arguments from the guys at Obsidian about why they didn't include post-ending content, I kinda understand the argument that an ending is meant to mean just that: the end. Yeah the logic behind not being able to send one of your non-human crew into the radiation-filled chamber to push the button made no sense, but continuing the game after the whole "BIG ENDING" just made me feel like I hadn't really accomplished anything.

Why I hate the ME3 ending is that it goes the Merovingian route of declaring that choice is an illusion, no matter which one you make, it's going to suck. The Extended Cut takes some of the suck out of it by doing the Fallout "this is what your actions accomplished" credits route, but it still leaves you feeling like they were pulling a different Anno (not "it's art," but "Rocks fall, everyone dies").

--------------------------
CdrMike, Shark Bait

"Did I ever tell you the definition of 'insanity'?" - Vaas Montenegro, Far Cry 3


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-21-13, 08:53 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #25
 
   >Why I hate the ME3 ending is that it goes the Merovingian route of
>declaring that choice is an illusion, no matter which one you make,
>it's going to suck.

Oh, so the correct comparison is not Fallout 3, it's Deus Ex.

>but it still leaves you feeling like they
>were pulling a different Anno (not "it's art," but "Rocks fall,
>everyone dies").

Or, alternately, that puts me in mind of Neverwinter Nights 2.

Interestingly, the thing all of these candidates had in common (to me) was that they were really fun games that were ultimately unsatisfactory. It's not looking good for Mass Effect 3.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
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CdrMike
Member since Feb-19-05
271 posts
Jan-21-13, 10:09 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #28
 
   >>Why I hate the ME3 ending is that it goes the Merovingian route of
>>declaring that choice is an illusion, no matter which one you make,
>>it's going to suck.
>
>Oh, so the correct comparison is not Fallout 3, it's Deus
>Ex
.
>
>>but it still leaves you feeling like they
>>were pulling a different Anno (not "it's art," but "Rocks fall,
>>everyone dies").
>
>Or, alternately, that puts me in mind of Neverwinter Nights 2.
>
>Interestingly, the thing all of these candidates had in common (to me)
>was that they were really fun games that were ultimately
>unsatisfactory. It's not looking good for Mass Effect 3.

Really, if I had to compare the ME franchise to any other, it would probably be to Matrix trilogy. The first starts out setting the scene, getting you familiar with the setting, but otherwise focusing mostly on the storyline itself, breaks some new ground while also keeping things familiar, and ending with a lot of promise if the series goes any further.

The second sort of stumbles out of the gate, as while you get to see the main character be the badass the first film hinted at him becoming, everything else becomes mired in exposition and the action scenes almost like little breaks from the mountain of BS you're being buried under. And the ending leaves you feeling like there wasn't much point to the whole adventure.

Finally the third is released, the big conclusion the franchise has been building towards and promising greatness, and the writers go the exact opposite route of the prior installment by kicking most of the storytelling to the side in exchange for non-stop action and a lot of "big emotional scenes" that sometimes feel forced for the purpose of bringing some form of closure. You crawl your way to the ending, hoping for the big ending that will make everything that came before seem relevant...and the writers step up to say "Sorry, we couldn't think up something that top all we've done up to this point, so here's your crap ending."

And all you can do as the credits roll by is go "I paid full price to see that?!"

--------------------------
CdrMike, Shark Bait

"Did I ever tell you the definition of 'insanity'?" - Vaas Montenegro, Far Cry 3


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laudre
Member since Nov-13-06
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Jan-22-13, 04:51 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #28
 
   >>Why I hate the ME3 ending is that it goes the Merovingian route of
>>declaring that choice is an illusion, no matter which one you make,
>>it's going to suck.
>
>Oh, so the correct comparison is not Fallout 3, it's Deus
>Ex
.

You're not far wrongif you're referring to Deus Ex: Human Resources, but there's a few things that actually justify that game's ending which don't apply to ME3.

- DE: HR is a prequel, so its ending had to be able to, at sufficiently high altitudes, be able to lead in to the original game.
- In DE: HR, the themes around the various options for the ending are built up throughout the length of the game, and ultimately what you're choosing is who you agree with most. In ME3, they really only make a good case for one of the choices, and the ending that's the hardest to open up is predicated upon an assertion that everything else in the trilogy indicates is total bullshit.
- In DE: HR, you get an honest-to-gods fourth option, which, while not a great option for the protagonist, is a good way to say "the hell with all of you" to the three primary options given. They added a fourth option in the Extended Cut ending, but it was one specifically to deliver a fuck-you to something many players started doing out of annoyance with the ending.

If you're referring to the original Deus Ex, my ability for useful comparisons is thin, as I've not played enough of it to give meaningful insight, but what I do know of the game says that the whole promise of one's choices meaning something in the game's storyline is, in some ways, delivered much more effectively in that game than anywhere in ME3.

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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CGWolfgang
Member since Jun-10-09
110 posts
Jan-22-13, 11:13 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #14
 
   >>If you haven't played ME3 yet, be warned: there's enough of a good
>>game in it that I played through it twice (so far), but there's enough
>>of a bad game in it to leave a really foul taste in one's
>>mouth.
>
>I haven't, mainly because I have heard things to that effect before.
>(And I once read a rebuttal of sorts to same from someone at BioWare
>in which the BioWare guy basically busted out the Anno Defense
>(roughly, "it doesn't matter if you enjoy it, it's
>art"), which is (as always) such bollocks I'm surprised it's
>not served as a novelty item in cowboy-themed restaurants.) I decided
>at the time that, if I was going to be made to throw something across
>the room, I would at least not pay list price for the privilege, and
>have been waiting for it to fall off the old-game cost cliff.
>
>From all that I've read on the matter, it all sounds very similar to
>the jaw-droppingly unsatisfactory way in which Fallout 3 ended
>before they fixed it with the Broken Steel DLC, only it appears
>BioWare is On Its Dignity and outright refusing to DTRT in similar
>fashion because You Just Don't Get It. Which I guess is Bethsoft 1,
>BioWare 0 on that scoreboard, though in fairness to BioWare I should
>acknowledge that their game engine is a lot more reliable. :)

To be honest I know most people think the last 1% of the game was bad while the rest was great. But looking at the last quarter of the game (Chronos station) for those who've played it the story pretty much takes a running swan dive into the deep end of an empty pool.

I mean the reapers become so annoyingly stupid that the only way they could make them worse was to put them in a giant reaper sized tophat with a fake handlebar mustach, have them kidnap your love interest, put said love interest in a tube and fire them into a singularity with you having to rush off and save them. And thats before we get to the "It's time to be deep because I'm off my meds and believing my own hype" crapfest of an ending. It was uncomfortable to play through because you could tell someone was trying to be PROFOUND but it was so contrived and hamfisted it managed to be insulting.

Sorry for the hyperbole but the train wreck that is called Mass Effect 3 still has that effect on me.

Also I know someone asked about the "From Ashes" DLC. It came free with the collectors edition but it was a $10 day one DLC purchase for everyone else. Which oddly enough its essentially the same content as Katsumi and Zaeed's missions from ME2 for double the price.

------------
~If you want my input the red explosions are really pretty and if you did enough you might live for a few more excrutiating seconds

My not so humble contribution to cyberspace

http://cgwolfgang.deviantart.com/


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-23-13, 00:06 AM (EST)
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34. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #33
 
   >Sorry for the hyperbole but the train wreck that is called Mass Effect
>3 still has that effect on me.

I think I enjoyed this thread more before we all became so angry. I'll have to try to do something about that when I get a few minutes...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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pjmoyermoderator
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Jan-23-13, 00:46 AM (EST)
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35. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #34
 
   >>Sorry for the hyperbole but the train wreck that is called Mass Effect
>>3 still has that effect on me.
>
>I think I enjoyed this thread more before we all became so
>angry. I'll have to try to do something about that when I get
>a few minutes...

... um, um... oh, LOOK! Zaeed lounging on a chair on a tropical beach! With a second chair for Jessie!

--- Philip





Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Sorry 'bout that, but I had to do -something-... ^_^;;"


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Matrix Dragon
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Jan-23-13, 01:21 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #35
 
   >... um, um... oh, LOOK! Zaeed lounging on a chair on a tropical
>beach! With a second chair for Jessie!

You know, the guy knows how to treat his loved ones right.


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CGWolfgang
Member since Jun-10-09
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Jan-23-13, 01:41 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #34
 
   Sorry Gryph for my part at dragging this thread off course.

I got to remember there's a time and place for venting on certain topics and the this particular thread probably isn't the place to vent on the quality of certain franchises... thats why I go to the angry joe forums. :)

------------
~If you want my input the red explosions are really pretty and if you did enough you might live for a few more excrutiating seconds

My not so humble contribution to cyberspace

http://cgwolfgang.deviantart.com/


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laudre
Member since Nov-13-06
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Jan-23-13, 07:04 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #34
 
   >>Sorry for the hyperbole but the train wreck that is called Mass Effect
>>3 still has that effect on me.
>
>I think I enjoyed this thread more before we all became so
>angry. I'll have to try to do something about that when I get
>a few minutes...

On another forum I frequent, debates about ME3 are watched very carefully by the mods, precisely because of the venom it inspires.

I'll come back around to this: the suck in the game is mostly in parts of the first half an hour or so (the introduction of the thoroughly unnecessary MacGuffin) and in the last ten minutes or so (depending on how long it takes you to work through the ending dialogue). It definitely takes a turn for the worse around Thessia, but if they'd ended it at one particular moment, just before the final end sequence, the complaints about the ending would've been orders of magnitude less incendiary, and we still would've gotten closure on the things that mattered most in the game.

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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Verbena
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Jan-24-13, 07:14 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #38
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-13 AT 07:16 PM (EST)
 
Ah, alas, it got tiresome before I had a chance to vent my displeasure at the parts of ME3 that suck...which are, indeed, Kai Leng and the total non sequitur ending. I won't make anyone uninterested hear my vitriolic complaints, but I will leave this link, which explains the ending's problems more effectively than I ever could. Be warned, it's -long-. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs


--------

this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
now
let everything be destroyed

--mu


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A Vile Gangster
Member since Feb-15-10
301 posts
Jan-25-13, 06:09 AM (EST)
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41. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #39
 
   As a fellow gentleman of culture and refinement, I can confide in you that I knew where your link led before I clicked on it, and I've been subbed to T.U.N. since I personally experienced the "fever dream", which is how I refer to the ME3 ending.

----
Now Playing:
...

< THIS SPACE FOR RENT >


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BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
290 posts
Jan-25-13, 01:01 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #33
 
   It's worth noting for the benefit of anyone (like, say, Gryphon) that hasn't played it that the game is apparently amazing if your first time playing it includes the revised ending and the major DLC. I certainly got a way different experience replaying it from scratch in October. I've got no problems at all with the revised ending, it hits just the right note. So, YMMV.


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laudre
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Jan-20-13, 11:17 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #0
 
   My favorite renegade interrupt in ME2, and one of many reasons why FemShep > BroShep:

"Mine's bigger."

Also, one of my favorite Garrus lines: "The collectors killed you once, and all it did was piss you off."

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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Senji
Member since Apr-27-07
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Jan-21-13, 04:43 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #0
 
   OK, so I'm considering getting ME (finally, after some years of both people here and IRL saying good things). What DLC should I be considering?

S.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-21-13, 04:51 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #21
 
   >OK, so I'm considering getting ME (finally, after some years of both
>people here and IRL saying good things). What DLC should I be
>considering?

The first game doesn't have much in the way of DLC, that I recall. I can only think of two offhand, of which "Bring Down the Sky" is pretty good (and I think it was free, but EA has messed up the way BioWare originally distributed it, so who knows) and "Pinnacle Station" was not particularly stimulating.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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pjmoyermoderator
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Jan-21-13, 05:01 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #21
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-13 AT 05:07 PM (EST)
 
>OK, so I'm considering getting ME (finally, after some years of both
>people here and IRL saying good things). What DLC should I be
>considering?

Hoooboy.

Ok, first off, they are offering the full Mass Effect trilogy for various platforms, so if you're planning to get the whole thing eventually, you may as well get that.

The collection, theoretically, provides the following DLC for ME1 and ME2:

"Bring Down the Sky" -- Stop a Terrorist Asteroid Drop during/after the main ME1 game.
"Cerberus Network" -- General access to Cerberus Network stuff, this should include Zaeed Massani's "The Price of Revenge".
"Overlord" -- A Cerberus Experiement goes South... moreso than usual.
"Lair of the Shadow Broker" -- Finally find out who this guy is!
"Kasumi's Stolen Memory" -- It's time for a Heist!

All of the above have decent character/plot elements, so even if you're buying the games seperately, get them.

ME1 also has "Pinnacle Station" which is a "Horde"/"Firefight" mode on a Citadel/Alliance training station. Pretty, but not really worth it.

ME2 also has "Project Firewalker" which gives you the Hammerhead hovercraft and its own set of missions (not used outside of them, so not worth it if you're not missing vehicular travel), plus various weapon, armor, and costume packs. The Weapon/Armor packs pretty much cover everything you would've gotten for Preorder Bonuses back when ME2 was released. Check the Mass Effect Wiki to figure out which ones you'd be interested in.

As for Mass Effect 3...

The "Extended Cut" is free, and pretty much REQUIRED for anything to make sense at the end. YOU MUST GET THIS.
"From Ashes" is pretty essential, as it gives you a rather unique squadmate, whose comments and reactions liven up the story even more. It was free to first-purchasers, and I think may still be free now.

"Leviathan" paid DLC -- That which is not dead can eternal lie...
"Omega" paid DLC -- It's time to take back Omega for Aria T'loak! Have fun!

The rest of the DLC available for ME3 are armor/weapons/level packs for the single player and the multiplayer games. I personally found the ME3 multiplayer pretty enjoyable (in fact, I played it a lot -before- the main campaign -- I had to wait until a solution was found for the Shepard face import problems), so if you love many varied guns, those packs are for you.

Enjoy!
--- Philip





Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"


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laudre
Member since Nov-13-06
128 posts
Jan-21-13, 06:35 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #23
 
   >The rest of the DLC available for ME3 are armor/weapons/level packs
>for the single player and the multiplayer games. I personally found
>the ME3 multiplayer pretty enjoyable (in fact, I played it a lot
>-before- the main campaign -- I had to wait until a solution was found
>for the Shepard face import problems), so if you love many varied
>guns, those packs are for you.

If co-op multiplayer against waves of increasingly difficult NPC enemies in a third-person shooter with lots of class synergy and variations and new stuff unlocked with a lot of RNG sounds like fun to you (and it very well might -- I quite enjoyed it for a time), I recommend picking up ME3. The multiplayer is very, very well done, and probably kept it installed on a lot more machines than the single-player version would have.

I have all of the playable-content DLC for 1 and 2 save Pinnacle Station (and, from what I hear, I'm not missing anything) and the various armor and weapon packs for ME2, and I find all of it well worth it (and I think you get all of it with the trilogy edition, anyway). I got From Ashes for free with my digital deluxe edition of ME3, but I've not bought any of the paid DLC, and probably won't consider it until I decide to finish my next trilogy play-through.

"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-19-05
271 posts
Jan-21-13, 08:39 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #23
 
   One other DLC for ME2: "Arrival," which is actually a pretty big must if you want to make any sense of the time period between it and ME3 and why the Batarians want Shepard's head on a platter by the time the third game rolls along.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Shark Bait

"Did I ever tell you the definition of 'insanity'?" - Vaas Montenegro, Far Cry 3


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pjmoyermoderator
Charter Member
721 posts
Jan-21-13, 08:49 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #26
 
   >One other DLC for ME2: "Arrival," which is actually a pretty big must
>if you want to make any sense of the time period between it and ME3
>and why the Batarians want Shepard's head on a platter by the time the
>third game rolls along.

Oh, yes. Like "From Ashes" and "Lair of the Shadow Broker" (and the "Extended Cut"), "Arrival" is ESSENTIAL. I guess I forgot about listing it 'cause it's -so- essential it may as well be considered part of ME2 proper...





Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
11597 posts
Jan-21-13, 08:54 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #26
 
   >One other DLC for ME2: "Arrival," which is actually a pretty big must
>if you want to make any sense of the time period between it and ME3
>and why the Batarians want Shepard's head on a platter by the time the
>third game rolls along.

In fairness, it's not as if the batarians plausibly require an excuse to want a prominent human dead.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-19-05
271 posts
Jan-21-13, 10:12 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Gin Shepard's Fits of Badassery"
In response to message #29
 
   >In fairness, it's not as if the batarians plausibly require an
>excuse to want a prominent human dead.

True, that seems to be their natural state of being. The few instances when you actually see one glad to encounter a human are so rare they might as well be tracked as an endangered species.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Shark Bait

"Did I ever tell you the definition of 'insanity'?" - Vaas Montenegro, Far Cry 3


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