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Subject: "OWaW 21: Sea Trials"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Gryphonadmin
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"OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-20 AT 08:36 PM (EST)
 
When last we left the main Our Witches at War series, Gryphon and Shizuka Hattori had undertaken a curious project for the Imperial Fusō Navy. Now that Gallian Gothic's timeline has caught up, let's see how they're getting along.

Our Witches at War, Episode 21 (Part 2 of Our Fighting Fleet): "Sea Trials"

EDITED TO NOTE: If you just arrived, you should probably be aware that, owing to some of the traffic you'll see below, I'm already thinking about rewriting this one. :/

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
OWaW 21: Sea Trials [View All] Gryphonadmin Dec-01-20 TOP
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials TheOtherSean Dec-01-20 1
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Zemyla Dec-01-20 2
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 46
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Pasha Dec-01-20 3
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-01-20 4
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Zemyla Dec-01-20 5
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-01-20 6
                 RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials The Traitor Dec-01-20 7
                     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Croaker Dec-01-20 8
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Droken Dec-01-20 9
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Zemyla Dec-01-20 10
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Peter Eng Dec-01-20 13
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-01-20 14
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Zemyla Dec-01-20 19
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 36
                 RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 49
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials ImpulsiveAlexia Dec-02-20 30
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Astynax Dec-01-20 23
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 24
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Peter Eng Dec-02-20 26
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials ImpulsiveAlexia Dec-02-20 31
                 RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 32
                     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials ImpulsiveAlexia Dec-02-20 35
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials zwol Dec-02-20 39
                 RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Astynax Dec-02-20 40
                     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 44
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Zemyla Dec-02-20 43
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-03-20 54
                 RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Astynax Dec-03-20 55
                     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-03-20 56
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Sofaspud Dec-01-20 11
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-01-20 15
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials StClair Dec-01-20 21
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Astynax Dec-01-20 17
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Peter Eng Dec-01-20 12
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Astynax Dec-01-20 16
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Peter Eng Dec-01-20 18
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 48
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Verbena Dec-02-20 50
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Proginoskes Dec-01-20 20
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Matrix Dragon Dec-01-20 22
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Star Ranger4 Dec-02-20 25
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Astynax Dec-02-20 37
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Terminus Est Dec-02-20 27
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Star Ranger4 Dec-02-20 28
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 29
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Star Ranger4 Dec-02-20 38
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Verbena Dec-02-20 51
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 53
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Verbena Dec-03-20 57
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials drakensis Dec-02-20 33
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 34
         RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Zemyla Dec-02-20 42
             RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-02-20 45
                 RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Zemyla Dec-02-20 47
     RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Gryphonadmin Dec-15-20 58
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials MoonEyes Dec-02-20 41
  RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials Pasha Dec-02-20 52

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TheOtherSean
Member since Jul-7-08
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Dec-01-20, 05:44 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   Thank you!

--
The Other Sean - Don't accept substitutes!
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?


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Zemyla
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Dec-01-20, 05:48 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   "You musta misheard. He's not gonna slay the vampire, he's gonna lay the vampire!"


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-02-20, 01:48 PM (EDT)
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46. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #2
 
   >"You musta misheard. He's not gonna slay the vampire, he's gonna lay
>the vampire!"

ahem.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Pasha
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Dec-01-20, 05:55 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   Me, reading the bit where they walk back drunk: "Hah, I bet he doesn't even get a hangover, cheating Detian bastard.

--
-Pasha
"Don't change the subject"
"Too slow, already did."


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-01-20, 05:58 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #3
 
   >Me, reading the bit where they walk back drunk: "Hah, I bet he doesn't
>even get a hangover, cheating Detian bastard.

He's not even drunk by the time they get back to the hangar. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Zemyla
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Dec-01-20, 06:10 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #4
 
   When Marisa finds out Gryphon is an immortal, she may ask about eating his liver to gain his immortality, or at least his alcohol tolerance.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-01-20, 06:18 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #5
 
   >When Marisa finds out Gryphon is an immortal, she may ask about
>eating his liver to gain his immortality, or at least his
>alcohol tolerance.

"Yyyyyeaaaah, pretty sure it doesn't work that way, but let's not find out."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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The Traitor
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Dec-01-20, 06:50 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #6
 
   "Put the pizza cutter down, Marisa."

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.


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Croaker
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Dec-01-20, 07:31 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #7
 
   >"Put the pizza cutter down, Marisa."


"Why? It'll just grow back, right?"

"Yes, but do you have any idea how much that stings?"

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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Droken
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Dec-01-20, 07:39 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #3
 
   I was kind of hoping, though given the way OWaW tends to go not really expecting, to actually see that fight go through its paces.

Skipping straight to the drunken* aftermath was definitely more entertaining though.

* for varying degrees of drunk

-Droken

"If at first you don't succeed, bull-
riding is not for you."


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Zemyla
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Dec-01-20, 07:40 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   On a more serious note, this is the first time in as far as I can remember when I've been disappointed after reading a new release from you.

The best parts of the story (the apology and the reunion) were things you'd already previewed, and they set a high bar that the rest of the story didn't really clear. Finding out the reason for Reimu's visit was interesting, though the repetition (finding out first at Saint-Ulrich) hurt the pacing a little. Reimu would definitely be "shoot first, ask questions later" about this, as she tends to be in canon, and her prejudice against youkai fits as well.

I think the worst part for me was that (a) she lost to Gryphon, (b) we don't get to see it happen, and (c) she needed to have lost to change her mind. I really like your fight scenes. You tie together choreography and character building in ways evem few published authors do. So I got super hype for the fight that was doubtless about to happen and then nothing.

I'm not directly opposed to the idea that Gryphon could beat Reimu, but I feel it requires proof, it requires showing your work. Canonically, she has beaten immortals, she has beaten swordmasters, she has beaten wielders of strange magic. So his victory feels like a "dude, just trust me".

The stuff that happens because of the fight is a given. Gryph isn't going to go, "Yes, I'm a dangerous abomination like Nero and Rasputin" no matter who wins, and aside from everything else, I don't think Reimu has the authority to kill him without risking a war between Fuso and Karlsland (and also it'd cause a time paradox, since there's lots of things in the main universe G needs to be alive for).

I feel like it'd be more interesting for Reimu to change her mind despite winning her battle with him. For instance, she might not find any evidence of him using so-called "dark magic" when he's fighting, even when he's faced with potential death. Or her mind might open to the Force as they fight and she sees what he's actually teaching. Or Marisa actually reads the books while Gryph and Reimu are fighting and tells her she's fretting over nothing. Or several other possibilities I haven't thought of.

Plus it's more Touhou, especially in the later mainline games, that Reimu wins the spellcard battle against even the final and extra bosses and thwarts their immediate schemes, yet doesn't or can't stop the social change they're bringing to Gensokyo.

Also, here the fact that he drank more than anyone else and still didn't wake up with a hangover feels kind of like an unnecessary victory lap.

Probably that part has colored my perception of the remainder of the story. I note that the part of the Paris trip we haven't seen yet has gone without major incident, and that Sakuya apparently doesn't feel the need to Lens him status reports. I had kind of expected some sort of shit to hit the fan in Paris on the Friday night of the new moon, but it really would be far more inconvenient for him (and thus convenient for drama) for it to happen while he's off saving the Hyperion.

TL;DR: No fight and no explanation make Zemyla a sad enby.


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Peter Eng
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Dec-01-20, 08:16 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #10
 
   >
>Also, here the fact that he drank more than anyone else and still
>didn't wake up with a hangover feels kind of like an unnecessary
>victory lap.
>

I think Gryphon cheating his intoxication makes sense, if only because I imagine him looking up, and thinking, "Damn. We need one more sober person if we're going to make it back."

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-01-20, 08:34 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #10
 
   I have complicated feelings about the post I'm replying to, and most of them have to do with its author being mostly right. :/

>On a more serious note, this is the first time in as far as I can
>remember when I've been disappointed after reading a new release from
>you.

I suspected this might happen. Not specifically to you, but to someone, or possibly everyone. I don't usually post when I have misgivings about what I'm posting, but I did it this time, for one very simple but, you may conclude, questionably valid reason, to wit:

Remember back when I used to do this series to a deadline, and the rule was, whatever state I got a given episode to by the end of the week, that's what went out? Well, this damn episode has been sitting in my line of sight for five years, and I'm tired of looking at it. I need it out of my way so I can move on to the things I have a more solid line on. And it was already running to a length where I had to break it off and move what was supposed to be the climax to a third episode.

With that in mind:

>The best parts of the story (the apology and the reunion) were things
>you'd already previewed, and they set a high bar that the rest of the
>story didn't really clear.

(I also knew my habit of dropping those things was going to get me into trouble one day, but I kept doing it anyway. :/ )

>Finding out the reason for Reimu's visit
>was interesting, though the repetition (finding out first at
>Saint-Ulrich) hurt the pacing a little.

Hmm, yeah... this one is a genuine oversight and not, as we will see examples of below, something I was trying to do that may not have worked. Maybe she should've just asked to see Colonel Sakamoto (or General Wilcke, but I think she'd be more likely to go to the ranking Fusōnese officer on the scene by default), rather than discussing her business with someone who isn't even usually part of 1 JSAF.

>Reimu would definitely be
>"shoot first, ask questions later" about this, as she tends to be in
>canon, and her prejudice against youkai fits as well.

You reckon I should've just Chandler's Lawed the hangar scene? G's standing there discussing naval armaments and—whoa! Hey, what the hell? What's your problem, Red? Do I owe you money?!

(That wasn't sarcasm, btw, I'm kinda seriously wondering if I should've done that now. For the moment, let's continue.)

>I think the worst part for me was that (a) she lost to Gryphon, (b) we
>don't get to see it happen, and (c) she needed to have lost to change
>her mind. I really like your fight scenes. You tie together
>choreography and character building in ways evem few published authors
>do. So I got super hype for the fight that was doubtless about to
>happen and then nothing.

I get A and B (although I'll come back to them in a moment), but C seems perfectly in keeping with what I've read of the way things usually work in Touhou stuff. It seems like it's fairly traditional there that whoever loses the duel usually not only concedes the point, but adopts the winner's stance thereon. I gathered it was a deliberate part of the world design, some kind of faux-bushido thing (hence Shizuka's ruminations about same).

>I'm not directly opposed to the idea that Gryphon could beat Reimu,
>but I feel it requires proof, it requires showing your work.
>Canonically, she has beaten immortals, she has beaten swordmasters,
>she has beaten wielders of strange magic. So his victory feels like a
>"dude, just trust me".

I'm not trying to tell you how to feel here, or anything like that, but can I just point out that canonically, she's beaten all of those people because she's rigged the functioning of the world they inhabit so that she can't lose? Seriously. She imposed the combat rules they all have to operate under, and they are in many cases the only reason she defeats entities she has no business even surviving a confrontation with. That is... obviously not the case here. She's not wearing her player character Underoos.

(That feels hella fourth-wally on the part of the Touhou lore, btw, especially in the later games where the player characters having won the previous games is part of the backstory. It's like the game setting is looking directly at the normally unspoken law that the player characters have to win because they're the player characters. I can only think of one video game offhand that has deliberately subverted that rule--XCOM 2--but rarely do they openly acknowledge it as part of the in-game storyline.)

Anyway, grumbling about source lore design aside, and apart from the issue of who wins, I stared at the blank space after "I don't have all week" for... well, about a week, before finally deciding, "You know what, it would be perfectly in keeping with both earlier precedents in-house and a lot of the Touhou fan works I've seen to play the Unseen Awesomeness card here and move the frickin' story along." So, with some misgivings, I did, and here we see that those misgivings were justified.

>aside from everything else, I don't think
>Reimu has the authority to kill him without risking a war between Fuso
>and Karlsland

This is probably true, although I suspect it's also possible that she'd only think of that after she did it. She's not the most cerebral monster hunter. :)

>I feel like it'd be more interesting for Reimu to change her mind
>despite winning her battle with him. For instance, she might not find
>any evidence of him using so-called "dark magic" when he's fighting,
>even when he's faced with potential death. Or her mind might open to
>the Force as they fight and she sees what he's actually teaching. Or
>Marisa actually reads the books while Gryph and Reimu are fighting and
>tells her she's fretting over nothing. Or several other possibilities
>I haven't thought of.

Well, I hadn't even thought of those (and I quite like a couple of them), so... there's that. :/

>Plus it's more Touhou, especially in the later mainline games, that
>Reimu wins the spellcard battle against even the final and extra
>bosses and thwarts their immediate schemes, yet doesn't or can't stop
>the social change they're bringing to Gensokyo.

I don't know much about the later games, which may stand as at least a partial defense of this particular detail.

>Also, here the fact that he drank more than anyone else and still
>didn't wake up with a hangover feels kind of like an unnecessary
>victory lap.

In fairness to me, it's not like I could really avoid that part. That's just how his biology works. He had to drink the most or he would have had to spend the whole evening being the only sober person in the group, which wouldn't have been very entertaining, and it's not as though he could help not having a hangover. What was he supposed to do, feign one?

The rest of your criticisms are completely valid--in most cases uncomfortably so--and I will accept them, but this one feels like a rummage around the back of the drawer in search of an And Another Thing. :)

>Probably that part has colored my perception of the remainder of the
>story. I note that the part of the Paris trip we haven't seen yet has
>gone without major incident, and that Sakuya apparently doesn't feel
>the need to Lens him status reports.

(This one, too. He'd buy the newspaper either way, c'mon.)

>I had kind of expected some sort
>of shit to hit the fan in Paris on the Friday night of the new moon,
>but it really would be far more inconvenient for him (and thus
>convenient for drama) for it to happen while he's off saving the
>Hyperion.

Aha, well, here is a point on which, at last, I have the high ground. The new moon is SATURDAY night. :)

>TL;DR: No fight and no explanation make Zemyla a sad enby.

TL;DR: Yeah, you're mostly right, I kinda fucked this up. :(

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Zemyla
Member since Mar-26-08
430 posts
Dec-01-20, 09:52 PM (EDT)
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19. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #14
 
   >I have complicated feelings about the post I'm replying to, and most
>of them have to do with its author being mostly right. :/
>
>>On a more serious note, this is the first time in as far as I can
>>remember when I've been disappointed after reading a new release from
>>you.
>
>I suspected this might happen. Not specifically to you, but to
>someone, or possibly everyone. I don't usually post when I have
>misgivings about what I'm posting, but I did it this time, for one
>very simple but, you may conclude, questionably valid reason, to wit:
>
>Remember back when I used to do this series to a deadline, and the
>rule was, whatever state I got a given episode to by the end of the
>week, that's what went out? Well, this damn episode has been
>sitting in my line of sight for five years, and I'm tired of
>looking at it. I need it out of my way so I can move on to the things
>I have a more solid line on. And it was already running to a
>length where I had to break it off and move what was supposed to be
>the climax to a third episode.

I totally understand that. I've been working on a fanfic with a friend, and it sat there for over 6 months as we poked at it, until I just decided to throw what we had out there and continue. And it was definitely the right move, even if we had to go back and Stalinize some parts I'd thrown in that didn't work out right.

>>Reimu would definitely be
>>"shoot first, ask questions later" about this, as she tends to be in
>>canon, and her prejudice against youkai fits as well.
>
>You reckon I should've just Chandler's Lawed the hangar scene? G's
>standing there discussing naval armaments and—whoa! Hey, what
>the hell? What's your problem, Red? Do I owe you money?!
>
>(That wasn't sarcasm, btw, I'm kinda seriously wondering if I
>should've done that now. For the moment, let's continue.)

That very much fits her MO.

>>I'm not directly opposed to the idea that Gryphon could beat Reimu,
>>but I feel it requires proof, it requires showing your work.
>>Canonically, she has beaten immortals, she has beaten swordmasters,
>>she has beaten wielders of strange magic. So his victory feels like a
>>"dude, just trust me".
>
>I'm not trying to tell you how to feel here, or anything like that,
>but can I just point out that canonically, she's beaten all of those
>people because she's rigged the functioning of the world they inhabit
>so that she can't lose? Seriously. She imposed the combat rules they
>all have to operate under, and they are in many cases the only
>reason
she defeats entities she has no business even surviving a
>confrontation with. That is... obviously not the case here. She's
>not wearing her player character Underoos.

I wrote this and realized that it felt like nitpicking and fandom "I know more than you" dickmeasuring, but I couldn't bring myself to delete it, so I'm just gonna small it so you can take a look if you want and skip it if you don't.

It's actually the opposite: The spellcard rules are canonically designed so that Reimu can lose fights without having to die (which would potentially collapse the barrier separating Gensokyo from the outside world). She loses rather often in the spin-off games, especially the fighting games where (unlike most normal games) every single fight happens in the same timeline.

Danmaku also forces battles to be about cleverness and beauty rather than raw power. Mystia Lorelei is a sparrow youkai with the power to cause night blindness. This power doesn't have any direct combat use once your enemy has shown up and started lighting up the sky; however, she can create spellcards which use both that power and the feeling created by it.

In a way, it's sort of a metaphysical version of Rose Duels.

>>Also, here the fact that he drank more than anyone else and still
>>didn't wake up with a hangover feels kind of like an unnecessary
>>victory lap.
>
>In fairness to me, it's not like I could really avoid that
>part. That's just how his biology works. He had to drink the
>most or he would have had to spend the whole evening being the only
>sober person in the group, which wouldn't have been very entertaining,
>and it's not as though he could help not having a hangover. What was
>he supposed to do, feign one?
>
>The rest of your criticisms are completely valid--in most cases
>uncomfortably so--and I will accept them, but this one feels like a
>rummage around the back of the drawer in search of an And Another
>Thing. :)

No, what I was trying to say is I guess that if he lost the battle, then he'd get a win by being disgustingly self-possessed for someone who'd gotten the shit kicked out of him and then supremely sloshed the night before. Their reactions would definitely be interesting, the way Remilia's were once she saw how he recuperated from "playing" with Flandre.

But that's something I probably should have explained better when I first posted it.

>>I had kind of expected some sort
>>of shit to hit the fan in Paris on the Friday night of the new moon,
>>but it really would be far more inconvenient for him (and thus
>>convenient for drama) for it to happen while he's off saving the
>>Hyperion.
>
>Aha, well, here is a point on which, at last, I have the high ground.
>The new moon is SATURDAY night. :)

Hah. I just mostly extrapolated from the full moon being on Friday. The moon cycle isn't precisely 28 days, though, so the days of full and new moons must change at some point. Well bowled.

Anyways, yeah, I can definitely empathize with the creative problems this story has had. And you've been knocking it out of the park recently, hit after hit with mechanical precision. It's okay to bunt every once in a while.


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Gryphonadmin
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36. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #19
 
   Before I finally stagger off to the comatorium, I want you to know that it's nearly quarter-past five in the morning and I'm still awake, and it's all. your. fault.

And you'll find out why later, because I'm going to have to translate this out of moon monkey and into English when I wake up. :)

--G.
-><-
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Gryphonadmin
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49. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #36
 
   >Before I finally stagger off to the comatorium, I want you to know
>that it's nearly quarter-past five in the morning and I'm still awake,
>and it's all. your. fault.

Awright, holy crap. Between last night and things getting added in what were supposed to be just review edits this afternoon, this episode has grown from 61 KB to 89 since, uh, about midnight. My arms hurt.

I'm going to have to get it looked over and make sure I haven't just spray-painted a wall with crap, but, well, watch this space. Or actually the space directly above it, since I'll open a new thread when I need y'all to reload.

--G.
what
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ImpulsiveAlexia
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Dec-02-20, 03:37 AM (EDT)
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30. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #14
 
   >Well, this damn episode has been
>sitting in my line of sight for five years, and I'm tired of
>looking at it. I need it out of my way so I can move on to the things
>I have a more solid line on.

Is there any author out there who doesn't know that feeling, I wonder?

Well, maybe not the five year part, but I can definitely point to a few "if I try to make myself write this, the story dies here" scenes in my past work.

>>Reimu would definitely be
>>"shoot first, ask questions later" about this, as she tends to be in
>>canon, and her prejudice against youkai fits as well.
>
>You reckon I should've just Chandler's Lawed the hangar scene? G's
>standing there discussing naval armaments and—whoa! Hey, what
>the hell? What's your problem, Red? Do I owe you money?!

Personally, I think the scene as shown - Reimu being about as aggressive as possible without directly initiating violence - fits well. After all, in canon she's pretty much be-your-own-boss, where here she does seem to answer to some sort of hierarchy, and that can change a woman. And besides, she -does- try talking frequently in canon, it just never works before the fight because then there wouldn't be a game.

... Actually, I can almost imagine a version where Gryphon refused to be baited, and she gradually began reconsidering his position upon observing the lack of violence in his response. Maybe if she hadn't insulted Remilia, alas.

(Allow me to also say that I find the whole "reactions when provoked tend to be the most genuine" thing to be the most complete and utter bullshit.)

>I'm not trying to tell you how to feel here, or anything like that,
>but can I just point out that canonically, she's beaten all of those
>people because she's rigged the functioning of the world they inhabit
>so that she can't lose? Seriously. She imposed the combat rules they
>all have to operate under, and they are in many cases the only
>reason
she defeats entities she has no business even surviving a
>confrontation with.

In addition to what Zemyla said, I've also seen the interpretation that the spell card rules are the only thing allowing Reimu to lose at all - that she could render herself immune to attack and bombard any enemy for however long it took, except the rules say she can't.

Touhou power levels are weird though. Personally I tend to treat the fighting games as "more like how things actually work", and I'm sure Reimu doesn't win all the time in those, but this probably isn't the most popular interpretation.

-IA.

(Because flatter power curves are more fun.)
(That's not a double entendre.)


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Astynax
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23. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #10
 
   >I feel like it'd be more interesting for Reimu to change her mind
>despite winning her battle with him. For instance, she might not find
>any evidence of him using so-called "dark magic" when he's fighting,
>even when he's faced with potential death. Or her mind might open to
>the Force as they fight and she sees what he's actually teaching. Or
>Marisa actually reads the books while Gryph and Reimu are fighting and
>tells her she's fretting over nothing. Or several other possibilities
>I haven't thought of.
>

I wouldn't want to see her win, not after her attitude, both toward Remilia (and, probably not knowingly, also Flandre,) and toward the concept of let alone the person of G. However the duel went, Reimu's pride needed a few holes poked into it IMHO.


-={(Astynax)}=-
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Gryphonadmin
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24. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #23
 
   Oh, this reminds me of something I noticed in the previous post and then forgot to comment on, what with all the other things going on...

>>Or Marisa actually reads the books...

This implies that Zemyla picked up on one little detail I was rather hoping someone had noticed, that being: When Reimu said of the Zauberschulbuch, "I've studied this document thoroughly," what she meant was that she sort of skimmed it on the flight from Marseille to Ribeauvillé and figured that was good enough. (And Marisa would know that perfectly well, too, which gives that particular suggestion added weight.) It's in her nature to half-ass things she's already convinced she knows enough about.

'Cause, based on my reading, I reckon one of the critical things about Reimu is that she's never had to try. Her position is hereditary, and so are her powers. Hell, one of her key abilities is "things just work out for her". She acts all cool and on top of things, but in reality she has the biggest damn case of gifted kid syndrome you ever saw. Some people think she's lazy, but really she just wouldn't know how to approach anything that involved actual effort, because nothing she's ever been expected to do in her life has required any.

She knows intellectually that the role of the Hakurei miko is supposed to be a Terrible Responsibility, but it's never seemed that way to her. All she has to do is appear at court in Kyōto a few times a year, do the ceremonies on the feast days (and nobody ever shows up for those anyway, because the Hakurei Shrine is in the absolute back of beyond and nobody who isn't an Imperial Fusō Army Air Service witch would ever prioritize going there over, say, Ise, or Izumo, or even Yasukuni*), preside over the very occasional IFA witch's court-martial, and... that's it, really, most of the time, apart from venturing forth now and then to execute somebody's coffee table that's mysteriously come to life. It's not like they get a ton of yōkai activity in twentieth-century Fusō.

The problem--well, a problem, we are uncovering a lot of problems with this particular plotline tonight--is that I don't have any readily evident way to convey any of the above in the narrative. The way the thing has to go down, she just shows up and Is a Problem. G doesn't have a way, or the time, to learn any of it before he has to deal with her. He'd probably be more sympathetic to her situation if he did, even though she's coming after him.

>I wouldn't want to see her win, not after her attitude, both toward
>Remilia (and, probably not knowingly, also Flandre,) and toward the
>concept of let alone the person of G. However the duel went, Reimu's
>pride needed a few holes poked into it IMHO.

In fairness, she doesn't really think Remilia (automatically) needs exterminating; as she admitted when called on it, she said that to see what kind of reaction she'd get. Someone under yōkai psychic domination would have reacted a lot more aggressively to a direct death threat against his master, and though she's never encountered a Western vampire before, she assumed (see above) that the effect should be about the same, so the outwardly mild and obviously considered nature of his response puzzled her.

--G.
* It probably goes without saying that this place is way less controversial in the OWaW universe than IRL.
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Peter Eng
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26. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #24
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-20 AT 02:39 AM (EST)
 
>
>The problem--well, a problem, we are uncovering a lot of
>problems with this particular plotline tonight--is that I don't have
>any readily evident way to convey any of the above in the narrative.
>The way the thing has to go down, she just shows up and Is a Problem.
>G doesn't have a way, or the time, to learn any of it before he has to
>deal with her. He'd probably be more sympathetic to her situation if
>he did, even though she's coming after him.
>

So the first chance he has to figure this out will probably be when she opens up with her usual opening strike (flawless form, of course) and doesn't get her usual solid hit, with 90% chance of outright victory.

Annoying. The information he needs to avoid the fight can't possibly arrive until after the fight starts.

Peter Eng
--
(I have no idea how much trouble I'd have avoided if I had all the information I needed before trying to deal, other than "a lot.")


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ImpulsiveAlexia
Member since Oct-22-20
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Dec-02-20, 03:43 AM (EDT)
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31. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #24
 
  
>'Cause, based on my reading, I reckon one of the critical things about
>Reimu is that she's never had to try. Her position is
>hereditary, and so are her powers. Hell, one of her key abilities is
>"things just work out for her".

Hmmmmm, I'm not sure about this one. Is it wrong to be thinking too much of the first game, where her own attacks could kill her?

Her being lazy is definitely something that's heavily flanderized by the fandom; I'm not sure it's actually that well supported by canon.

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)


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Gryphonadmin
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32. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #31
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-20 AT 03:49 AM (EST)
 
>Hmmmmm, I'm not sure about this one. Is it wrong to be thinking too
>much of the first game, where her own attacks could kill her?

That seems more like a rookie programming oversight than a feature of the lore, I'm just saying. :)

--G.
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ImpulsiveAlexia
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Dec-02-20, 04:23 AM (EDT)
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35. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #32
 
   >>Hmmmmm, I'm not sure about this one. Is it wrong to be thinking too
>>much of the first game, where her own attacks could kill her?
>
>That seems more like a rookie programming oversight than a feature of
>the lore, I'm just saying. :)

Ehhh, while I make no claims to being -good- at Highly Responsive to Prayers, I have played the game, and it really seemed like a deliberate mechanical design to me. (It's a really weird game compared to the later ones.)

One of the official profiles does say she "doesn't like to train", but when you put them together it's more like she's developed a power she initially had limited ability to control into an effective tool through practical application - kinda like how Utena learned swordfighting.

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)


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zwol
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Dec-02-20, 11:13 AM (EDT)
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39. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #24
 
   >This implies that Zemyla picked up on one little detail I was rather
>hoping someone had noticed, that being: When Reimu said of the
>Zauberschulbuch, "I've studied this document thoroughly," what
>she meant was that she sort of skimmed it on the flight from Marseille
>to Ribeauvillé and figured that was good enough. (And Marisa
>would know that perfectly well, too, which gives that particular
>suggestion added weight.) It's in her nature to half-ass things she's
>already convinced she knows enough about.
...
>The way the thing has to go down, she just shows up and Is a Problem.
>G doesn't have a way, or the time, to learn any of it before he has to
>deal with her. He'd probably be more sympathetic to her situation if
>he did, even though she's coming after him.

This seems like the right place to bring up the problem I had
with this story, because I had a different problem. Skipping
the fight worked fine for me; what didn't work was the lead-in. Why
does Gryphon let Reimu pick this fight with him? Why isn't his
response to "the way you've come up with to get around that
is... foul. Unnatural. And the work of a man, to boot" along the lines
of "OK, I'm going to need you to show me exactly what you found in the
Zauberschulbuch to give you that impression, because foul and
unnatural is the opposite of my understanding of the Force, and
if I didn't get that across clearly enough, there need to be some
revisions"?

Given her character, she would probably continue trying to pick a
fight, but he could continue not picking up the gauntlet, and trying
to get her to talk it out instead. If she busts out the offensive
magic anyway, then I suppose he gets to demonstrate his ability to
shield—thus proving that he isn't a complete fraud, at least—and that
might make a smoother segue into a fight sequence, if you still want
to write one.


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Astynax
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40. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #39
 
   >Why does Gryphon let Reimu pick this fight with him?
>

Everyone's patience has its limits is how I read it. The man had things to be doing that Reimu was interrupting, which by itself wouldn't be enough, but her rather dire remarks about Remilia likely tipped the scales from 'benefit of the doubt' to 'the hard way it is'. Her smugness of 'when I defeat you' is also an attitude that screams for a large helping of humble pie. Maybe a full on Jedi master would have still tried to keep the peace until the absolute last possible moment, but G would be the first to tell folks he's no Jedi.


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Sometimes percussive maintenance is required, even in people."


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Gryphonadmin
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44. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #40
 
   >>Why does Gryphon let Reimu pick this fight with him?
>>
>
>Everyone's patience has its limits is how I read it. The man had
>things to be doing that Reimu was interrupting, which by itself
>wouldn't be enough, but her rather dire remarks about Remilia likely
>tipped the scales from 'benefit of the doubt' to 'the hard way it is'.
>Her smugness of 'when I defeat you' is also an attitude that
>screams for a large helping of humble pie. Maybe a full on Jedi
>master would have still tried to keep the peace until the absolute
>last possible moment, but G would be the first to tell folks he's no
>Jedi.

The above is pretty much correct, and also: he was reasonably sure by that point that it would be wasted effort anyway, and he didn't want her teeing off inside the hangar, where all the important breakable things were. By conceding pre-emptively that The Violence was going to happen whatever he did, he was able to control the venue enough that he would at least not have to build ANOTHER modified Kohbu-kai psychomagical steam plant by hand from memory.

--G.
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Zemyla
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43. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #24
 
   >'Cause, based on my reading, I reckon one of the critical things about
>Reimu is that she's never had to try. Her position is
>hereditary, and so are her powers. Hell, one of her key abilities is
>"things just work out for her".
> <...>
>The problem--well, a problem, we are uncovering a lot of
>problems with this particular plotline tonight--is that I don't have
>any readily evident way to convey any of the above in the narrative.

The Force is strong with her.

Seriously, "good at things without having to try" and "things just work out for her" are two of the big things that I assume Jedi Masters watch out for. (It was really nice of George Lucas to come up with an actual explanation for protagonist syndrome.)

And this ties everything together in a bow. Gryphon can actually put up a fight because he too is a powerful Force-user. Marisa reads the book during the fight and goes, "This stuff just sounds like what you talk about on the few occasions you've actually discussed theory with me." And whivhever way the battle winds up going in the end, the outcome is the will of the Force.


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Gryphonadmin
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54. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #24
 
   >In fairness, she doesn't really think Remilia (automatically)
>needs exterminating; as she admitted when called on it, she said that
>to see what kind of reaction she'd get. Someone under
>yōkai psychic domination would have reacted a lot more
>aggressively to a direct death threat against his master, and though
>she's never encountered a Western vampire before, she assumed (see
>above) that the effect should be about the same, so the outwardly mild
>and obviously considered nature of his response puzzled her.

When I was revising this scene earlier today, it occurred to me apropos of nothing that if Sakuya had been there to hear that, Reimu would ironically have concluded that she, unlike Gryphon, was the vampire's thrall, because oh my goodness, it would have gotten ever so bladey in there.

--G.
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Astynax
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55. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #54
 
   >When I was revising this scene earlier today, it occurred to me
>apropos of nothing that if Sakuya had been there to hear that, Reimu
>would ironically have concluded that she, unlike Gryphon, was
>the vampire's thrall, because oh my goodness, it would have gotten
>ever so bladey in there.
>

Out of left field or not, that is a mental image that brings a smile to my face. Though I wouldn't envy you trying to write such a battle, in my head it comes across as the sort of scene that crashes the frame rate to single digits once Reimu gets past her unavoidable 'holy crap where did all that come from' reaction.


-={(Astynax)}=-
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Gryphonadmin
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56. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #55
 
   >>When I was revising this scene earlier today, it occurred to me
>>apropos of nothing that if Sakuya had been there to hear that, Reimu
>>would ironically have concluded that she, unlike Gryphon, was
>>the vampire's thrall, because oh my goodness, it would have gotten
>>ever so bladey in there.
>>
>
>Out of left field or not, that is a mental image that brings a smile
>to my face. Though I wouldn't envy you trying to write such a
>battle, in my head it comes across as the sort of scene that crashes
>the frame rate to single digits once Reimu gets past her unavoidable
>'holy crap where did all that come from' reaction.

And Gryphon's just off to the side like "Oi oi oi, not in the hangar--ahh fer Jaysus' sake."

--G.
I often go Irish when blaspheming thus, probably because of Dara Ó Briain.
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Sofaspud
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11. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-20 AT 08:00 PM (EST)
 
Observations!

I really liked Mogami's letter. Though I'm confused (like she is) as to why the good doctor asked her to write it. But as a way of conveying off-screen happenings (as it were) it does the job well and gives us a bit more of a view on Mogami, and that's no bad thing.

> Gryphon wasn't sure what felt odder: that he was back at
> Crone Rock, or that the rest of the 501st wasn't here.

Just because it's still a point of confusion for me: we haven't actually seen this anywhere. Right? I didn't miss an entire arc somewhere? UF!Gryph keeps referring to previous adventures in Strike Witches land and I feel a bit lost at times.

> Nishimura laughed. "Only one," he said, and then explained
> to her puzzled look, "Did you seriously think nobody knew
> you were a girl, Satō?"
>
> Mogami blushed crimson. "How—when did you figure it out?"
>
> "Oh, within a week or so. Find me another engine room crewman
> who never, ever takes off his shirt," Nishimura said with a
> grin.

I don't know why this makes me happy but it does.

Random trivia: I asked my grandfather once why he always took his shirt off, first thing, when he went into the garage to work, and he told me it was a habit he'd picked up in the Air Force (he was a mechanic) because it was easier to keep it clean that way.

(Possibly also relevant: we lived in Arizona at the time and the garage was easily into the 120s in the summer. But he did it in winter, too, so.)

> Amélie Planchard was sitting at the desk that was normally
> Perrine Clostermann's, working one some of the documentation
> that was key to keeping the wing functioning in the absence

Typo, I suspect: 'one' instead of 'on'.

> "Reimu Hakurei," said the red-and-white witch. "Inspector-
> General of the Emperor's Witches."

Oooh, the brass has arrived! Touhou? *googles* Yep, Touhou. She looks a mite fiesty.


> "Don't pay any attention to me," said the black-and-white
> blonde casually, her manner of speech instantly giving her
> away as a Liberion. Winking one golden eye, she added, "I
> ain't even here, see?"

That sentence construct instantly throws my brain into Al Capone/Bugsy Seigel/Hollywood Mobster mode and picturing that fake Chicago mobster accent coming out of a cute lil' witch girl...

... I'm dyin'. Pls send halp.

> Gryphon got to his feet and regarded her for a few seconds.
> "You have no understanding of human nature at all, do you?"
> He sighed again and stepped around Shizuka's seat, walking
> out into the open area in the middle of the hangar. "OK,
> fine, let's do this," he said, beckoning to Reimu. "I
> haven't got all week."

Oh boy! Fight scene! That's a fight scene prelude if ever I've seen one!

> *most decidedly not a fight scene, but cute Neuroi-chan is cute Neuroi-chan, so we're good*

It's fine, that's just a teaser, the little 'commercial break' as it were right before the --

> Presently they came into view, walking—or in most cases
> more like weaving—across the floodlit apron, past the tied-
> down transport the "visitors" had arrived in earlier, and
> into the hangar itself. Gryphon, in the lead, seemed more or
> less normal, apart from the fact that he was carrying the
> red-and-white-clad Fusōnese girl on his back.

... wat.

To quote one of the greats: "Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!"

I... actually don't know if I'm honestly amused or genuinely let down. Complex emotions about this segment, that's what I'm sayin'. :D

> "You're not hungover," she croaked in an accusatory sort of
> way. "How are you not hungover? You drank more than I did."
> --tiny snip--
> "That's a long story for another time," Gryphon replied
> cryptically.

Oh, COME ON, GRYPH! You had the line right there! IT WAS RIGHT THERE!

"It's a kind of magic."

I dunno, maybe they leveled the base offscreen and he doesn't want to trigger her again, but I figured after the aftermath party they'd be on good enough terms for that :D

> "What are they talking about?" Alice murmured, looking
> from Marisa to Reimu. "What's that?"
>
> "No clue," Marisa replied, and then, grinning, "but I bet
> it'll be worth our while to stick close and find out..."

Aaaaand now I'm wracking my brain to try and figure out what that could be. As I'm sure was intended. :)

(Also, I noticed the italicized Mogami usage; nice touch, that.)

I really liked this! How's that saying go? Please, sir, may I have some more? :D

--sofaspud
--even if I was cheated out of a fight scene, darnit


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Gryphonadmin
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15. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #11
 
   >I really liked Mogami's letter. Though I'm confused (like she is) as
>to why the good doctor asked her to write it.

I had in mind a psychiatrist like the ones many of the early astronauts mention in anecdotes about the astronaut selection process, who often seemed to think they were treating diagnosed lunatics rather than choosing people for a high-risk, high-demand assignment, and whose actions didn't really make a lot of sense in that context either. It isn't supposed to seem like a reasonably request, so much as the Dunning-Kruger-ish act of a doctor who is out of his depth and out of ideas, but refuses to acknowledge either point. :)

>> Gryphon wasn't sure what felt odder: that he was back at
>> Crone Rock, or that the rest of the 501st wasn't here.
>
>Just because it's still a point of confusion for me: we haven't
>actually seen this anywhere. Right? I didn't miss an entire arc
>somewhere? UF!Gryph keeps referring to previous adventures in Strike
>Witches land and I feel a bit lost at times.

There's a little bit of it as a flashback in New Tricks, the LBatB story that started the whole business off (and thus was sort of the retroactive "pilot episode" for OWaW), but his original tenure with the 501st does mostly exist just as backreference and anecdote in the current series.

>Typo, I suspect: 'one' instead of 'on'.

d'oh

>> "Don't pay any attention to me," said the black-and-white
>> blonde casually, her manner of speech instantly giving her
>> away as a Liberion. Winking one golden eye, she added, "I
>> ain't even here, see?"
>
>That sentence construct instantly throws my brain into Al Capone/Bugsy
>Seigel/Hollywood Mobster mode and picturing that fake Chicago mobster
>accent coming out of a cute lil' witch girl...

Kinda, yeah, or New York. In the source, Marisa speaks in a very tomboyish and informal-to-the-point-of-rudeness manner which doesn't really translate directly into English, but "that wasn't what I expected her to sound like" is a valid reaction either way.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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StClair
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21. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #15
 
  
>>> "Don't pay any attention to me," said the black-and-white
>>> blonde casually, her manner of speech instantly giving her
>>> away as a Liberion. Winking one golden eye, she added, "I
>>> ain't even here, see?"
>>
>>That sentence construct instantly throws my brain into Al Capone/Bugsy
>>Seigel/Hollywood Mobster mode and picturing that fake Chicago mobster
>>accent coming out of a cute lil' witch girl...
>
>Kinda, yeah, or New York. In the source, Marisa speaks in a very
>tomboyish and informal-to-the-point-of-rudeness manner which doesn't
>really translate directly into English, but "that wasn't what I
>expected her to sound like" is a valid reaction either way.

Me, I put these together and come up with Harley Quinn.


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Astynax
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17. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #11
 
   >To quote one of the greats: "Where's the kaboom? There was supposed
>to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!"
>

I see I'm not the only one to reach immediately for that quote. Teach me not to check other comments before posting one of my play-by-play text dumps.


-={(Astynax)}=-
"This Space For Rent."


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Peter Eng
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12. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   I was kind of hoping for the swordfight as well, although from a different angle. I expected Reimu to back down after recognizing that Gryphon isn't plotting anything more complicated than saving the world.(1) I like a good Defeat Means Friendship, but it seems to me that this version of Reimu would necessarily be willing to admit being wrong, if only because it saves time.

It doesn't fit the flow of the rest of the story, so I'll take the fight as given, but I think it would have been more fun with the fight than without.

Peter Eng
--
(1)At this point, Gryphon probably sees saving the world as, "Complicated, but I've done it before, so not as complicated as it was the first fifty years."


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Astynax
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16. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   >"Squadron Leader Alice Murgatroyd, RAF, retired," said the shorter-haired
>blonde. (Amélie noticed, with some amusement despite the perplexing nature
>of this encounter, that the other blonde mouthed the words along with her,
>a mischievous little smirk on her face.)
>

Now I wonder if this is some cover identity/position that Marisa is privy to, or if she's just heard this intro so many times she's lost count.

>Mogami considered the weapon for a few moments, then looked at the cloth-
>shrouded shapes of what she now realized were the other seven, trying (and
>mostly failing) to envision how eight of them would be mounted. However they
>did it, if they managed such a feat, she would have more firepower than an
>entire platoon of heavy tank witches.
>"Awesome," she said.
>

Heh, doesn't even question how in the world they plan to stick the things on her, just stoked to have them. I like this girl.

>She ignored his remark and replied, "I've come a long way to see you,
>Captain. As Inspector-General of His Majesty the Emperor of Fusō's Witches,
>I need to speak to you about this."
>So saying, she slapped the copy of the Zauberschulbuch she'd shown to
>Amélie earlier against his chest, almost as if she were throwing down a
>gauntlet in challenge. He took it by reflex as much as anything else, looked at
>the cover, and then handed it back.
>

Well, the mini and earlier scene had indicated she was curious about the topic, but I was honestly surprised that she was somehow offended by it.

>"And furthermore," Reimu went on as if he hadn't spoken, "that rather than
>slay it, he has chosen to cavort with it."

Them's fightin' words.

>"Well, this is off to a great start, huh, Alice?" Marisa remarked.
>"Yes, I see Reimu has brought all of her charm and tact to bear on this
>occasion, Marisa," replied the RAF witch coolly.
>"It was ever thus," said Marisa philosophically.
>Alice nodded gravely. "Indeed."
>"I can hear you, you two," said Reimu through her teeth.
>"I congratulate you on your excellent peripheral hearing, General," said Alice
>pleasantly.
>

Apparently they are both very used to Reimu having all the tact and grace of a brick to the face.

>«I know, I would never have expected it either,» she said. «I suppose I
>should have, though. Onkel Fritz has always been like that.» She
>paused, then drew back slightly, her blue eyes going wide with surprise.
>«You're joking. He said that?» Pause. «Yes, of course he meant it.
>Onkel Fritz always means what he says.» Pause, head tilt with thoughtful
>look. «You don't say. Well, that will certainly put the cat among the
>pigeons. I wish I could be there to see it.»
>

It gets buried due to events before and after this scene, but someone able to engage in proper, two-way communication with Neuroi-chan is pretty damn game changing. I'm really curious for the reveal of how she's able to pull it off.

>Toshiro Nishimura yawned and looked at the wall clock in the hangar: 0200
>hours had just passed, and there was no sign of, well, anybody. For all he
>knew, the lot of them had gone off to rob a bank once Captain Hutchins and the
>strange witch from Fusō concluded their weird, spontaneous duel.
>

"Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!"

I was surprised that none of the duel ended up on-screen, if only because everyone's reactions to it would have been highly entertaining. Given the way she went in, Reimu alone had to end up with the shock of a lifetime discovering that G could make good on his earlier threat vis-a-vis knocking her on her ass.

>"What happened?" Nishimura asked, although the answer was patently obvious.
>Gryphon chuckled, fluffing out a blanket and tucking in the blotto miko. "We
>fought, we drank, she made her ancestors proud. Give me a hand, will you? I
>need to rustle some more bunks out of the storeroom for this crew, and I
>wouldn't trust any of these," (and here he gave a wry head-tilt toward the
>gaggle of still-conscious witches, who were now trying to restart their
>singalong but running aground on the rocks of each of them choosing a different
>song), "with anything more complicated than a hat right now."
>

Ah, defeat means friendship in action. Reimu has some krogan in her spirit. But apparently not her liver.

>"You're not hungover," she croaked in an accusatory sort of way. "How are you
>not hungover? You drank more than I did."
>

And here we see what I take to be G's playful vengeance for Reimu's 'it' and 'slay' remarks earlier, with the bonus that it was her own idea.

>(On the other hand, she wouldn't miss Squadron Leader Murgatroyd's snoring.
>At some point in the wee hours, she had seemed to find the resonant frequency
>of her bunk's metal frame, creating an almost unimaginable racket until one of
>her magic dolls could prod her into moving a little.)
>

I hope either Crone Rock's walls are bank vault thick, or Alice only does this when magnificently drunk. Otherwise Shizuka will need ear plugs to get decent sleep.

>"I'm just glad we don't have to overthrow the Gallian government now," said
>Shizuka blandly, drawing a startled glance from Reimu and a snicker from
>Gryphon.
>

Shizuka has really come a long way from her starting point of being scandalized at any witches being within arm's reach of G. She's even teasing superior officers (though I believe they're technically different branches of the service,) at least mildly.

>"Neuroi!" the Hyperion's radio operator replied. "Aerial and seaborne types—
>I've never seen seaborne Neuroi before! This area is supposed to be secure!"
>

Well, this doesn't indicate trouble ahead for the war effort, nope, not at all.



-={(Astynax)}=-
"This Space For Rent."


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Peter Eng
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18. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #16
 
   >
>>(On the other hand, she wouldn't miss Squadron Leader Murgatroyd's snoring.
>>At some point in the wee hours, she had seemed to find the resonant frequency
>>of her bunk's metal frame, creating an almost unimaginable racket until one of
>>her magic dolls could prod her into moving a little.)
>>
>
>I hope either Crone Rock's walls are bank vault thick, or Alice only
>does this when magnificently drunk. Otherwise Shizuka will need ear
>plugs to get decent sleep.
>

"I don't care who gets which room, as long as I'm as far as possible from the woman who snores like a battlecruiser."

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-02-20, 02:42 PM (EDT)
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48. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #16
 
   >>"Squadron Leader Alice Murgatroyd, RAF, retired," said the shorter-haired
>>blonde. (Amélie noticed, with some amusement despite the perplexing nature
>>of this encounter, that the other blonde mouthed the words along with her,
>>a mischievous little smirk on her face.)
>
>Now I wonder if this is some cover identity/position that Marisa is
>privy to, or if she's just heard this intro so many times she's lost
>count.

Since she left active duty, that's exactly how Alice has introduced herself every. single. time she's had to do so, in Marisa's experience. She also signs her letters that way.

>Well, the mini and earlier scene had indicated she was curious about
>the topic, but I was honestly surprised that she was somehow offended
>by it.

Let's just say that Reimu Hakurei does not subscribe to Modern Witch magazine.

or admit that she reads Marisa's when she's done with them

>Apparently they are both very used to Reimu having all the tact and
>grace of a brick to the face.

Marisa's known Reimu since they were tiny, tiny chilluns, and is well aware that, having been almost literally raised in a barn, she doesn't really understand the whole "dealing with people" thing. Alice, not so long or so well, but she's absorbed so much of Marisa's grumbling about her by mail that she has the general idea. :)

>It gets buried due to events before and after this scene, but someone
>able to engage in proper, two-way communication with Neuroi-chan is
>pretty damn game changing. I'm really curious for the reveal of how
>she's able to pull it off.

Yeah, I was a little surprised at how little attention that got. I wasn't trying to bury the lede. :)

>>(On the other hand, she wouldn't miss Squadron Leader Murgatroyd's snoring.
>>At some point in the wee hours, she had seemed to find the resonant frequency
>>of her bunk's metal frame, creating an almost unimaginable racket until one of
>>her magic dolls could prod her into moving a little.)
>>
>
>I hope either Crone Rock's walls are bank vault thick, or Alice only
>does this when magnificently drunk. Otherwise Shizuka will need ear
>plugs to get decent sleep.

It is, indeed, the latter. (Although they're pretty thick walls too.)

>Shizuka has really come a long way from her starting point of being
>scandalized at any witches being within arm's reach of G.

She has indeed.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Verbena
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50. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #48
 
   Wow! I finish the piece, catch the chatter afterwards, but since Tuesday is raid night for me I don't have time to respond until tonight. And there's 49 posts before I get there.


>>It gets buried due to events before and after this scene, but someone
>>able to engage in proper, two-way communication with Neuroi-chan is
>>pretty damn game changing. I'm really curious for the reveal of how
>>she's able to pull it off.
>
>Yeah, I was a little surprised at how little attention that got. I
>wasn't trying to bury the lede. :)


Yeah, this fact struck me the moment I read it, too, but honestly, the facts that it wasn't front and center in the piece, and the subject matter seemed a little socially aware for a newly independent AI, made me think Neuroi-chan wasn't speaking at all. I thought she might have been acting as a radio transceiver, maybe, or at least being a friendly ear more than a conversationalist.


>>Shizuka has really come a long way from her starting point of being
>>scandalized at any witches being within arm's reach of G.
>
>She has indeed.

The grace by which the various witches have been shown to grow and change is one of the highlights of the whole series. In fact, one of the biggest reasons I love UF is the method by which you take anime characters who, in a typical anime show will never see one iota of growth in a hundred seasons, and turn them into strong, empathetic characters with real growth in a relatable way.

Granted, the fact that growth is coming is predictable (I knew Lucchini would finally start maturing the moment I read Freiburg the first time), but y'know what? I'm good with that. Very good with that.


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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Proginoskes
Member since Dec-3-09
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Dec-01-20, 10:27 PM (EDT)
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20. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   Well, it might turn out to be even better with the fight scene, but I'm not put out by the lack.

And Prinzessin Eugenie continues to intrigue. As does Neuroi-chan. I suspect Mogami would also be able to perceive and understand her "speech".


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Matrix Dragon
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22. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   I love that she didn't get her ass kicking shown on screen. It would have been a nifty extra, but it was already clear she'd completely misjudged Gryphs skills, expecting some sort of evil wizard as opposed to a jedi-influenced swordsman. Plus, well, the vampire bit meant he was in a justified righteous semi-fury.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Star Ranger4
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25. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   > HMS Barbican at our earliest possible convenience, which, as you know, means
> "drop everything and hustle your ass" in the Imperial Navy.

For those of you who are confused, and might have googled HMS Barbican and found refferences to a WW2 'Boom Tender', Let me explain the concept of a 'Stone Frigate'. You see, throught the Brittish Comonweath, there are no 'shore stations', only ships. So the way they get around that is to 'comission' a shore instelation as a ship. Hence the term 'Stone Frigate'. So, given that to this point there have been no OBSERVED Neroi sea units, there would have been no need for a boom tender (IE A ship who's sole purpose is to open or close the booms from which anti submarine nets are hung) class. Ergo Barbican, which in OUR world was a boom tender, is available for asignment as a 'stone frigate's' name.

The concept of 'earliest possible convieniece' equalling FIVE (BLEEP'D) MINUTES AGO (BLEEP)WAD! has made the transition between national navies un-changed.

> "Didn't I tell you? Not even the Neuroi could kill Mamoru Satō."

Well... I guess that depends on how you define KIll. It IS, after all, pretty clear that MAMORU Sato effectivly died, only to be 'replaced on station' by Mogami Sato.

> "You were one of my best men! So to speak.

I'd have punctuated this differently, but I think that is personal preference. Still, it goes to show how time and again, Talent and determination can overide things like regulations.

> "Aha, you're that Hattori," said Nishimura. "The one they're calling the next Sakamoto."

*SNERK* Which just made it just that much more important for the IJN to commision her. Not that Hattori would EVER consider herself Mio's replacement!

> Making eye contact with Mogami, he grinned a slightly mischievous grin and said,
> "Your seagoing rig... will have eight of them."

And here is the payoff from that first teaser, oh so long ago. I would like to point out, to the detractors, that she is also a SHIP, as well as now a witch. And ships, because of their Displacement (akin to weight) can mount weapons AND USE THEM EFFECTIVELY, that no 'Tank Witch' could ever achieve.

> "And furthermore," Reimu went on as if he hadn't spoken, "that rather than slay it,
> he has chosen to cavort with it."

Totaly not fair Reimu. He is *MARYING* Her, not cavorting in the terms you are implying! :P :(

> But the way you've come up with to get around that is... foul. Unnatural. And the work of a
> man, to boot," she added

<baymax impersonation> Oh no. You are about to be befriended Nahona style for that declaration </impersonation>

> "OK, fine, let's do this," he said, beckoning to Reimu. "I haven't got all week."

Let the Nahona style befriending begin!

> "We fought, we drank, she made her ancestors proud."

Like I said. Nahona style Befriending!

> "Woo hoo, I get to be the big spoon for once," she added with glee. Her cat, who had stood
> by with a look of infinite patience on his face the whole time, jumped up and curled into a
> ball at their feet, sublimely ignoring the whole business.

Which just shows why cats believe they are superior to Homo Sapien.

> "Welp," Mogami mused, sitting on the edge of her bunk and prying off her boots, "I'm gonna
> wish I was sunk in the morning, I bet, but this was fun."

Spoken like a true sailor, Mogami.

> "That's a long story for another time," Gryphon replied cryptically.

Incluing how he is a DDP, a Detian, and can drink any... Ten(?) witches under the table, general.

> The Hakurei miko had challenged him and he had proven stronger; therefore, her interpretation
> of the situation had been wrong and his right, and she had adjusted her attitude accordingly.

Like I said! Nahona style befriending in action!

> "Some points need reinforcing," said Gryphon mischievously.
>
> The miko sighed. "I'm never going to live that remark down, am I?"

No, General, your not. Fortunatly for you, the only people above you who CAN tease you about it with impunity happens to be the Emperor himself!

> "Hattori, make a note," he said without lowering his binoculars.

Cause any running gag is worth keeping going till it falls over in exhasution!

> Not as much as she knew Lucchini was, of course. The sooner they were back in Alsace,
> the sooner she could get on with her urgent business.

Said urgent buisness, regardless of if Shirley knows or not, being Luchinni linking back up with her familiar. That Luchinni is so calm means she realizes that whatever that doc in NewKarlsand said was the most probable hiding place for her familiar is correct.

> "Not completely, but when has that ever stopped me?" Yoshika replied

And that, really, sums up Yoshika's personality in a single sentance, IMO.

> Yoshika Miyafuji took a moment to be amazed, as she had on the one prior occasion when she'd
> flown this new Striker Unit,

*facepalms* Sure you mentioned the desgination of this striker (which I am willing to bet was one of the aircraft under development in the late war that was never produced cause we A bombed them into friendship)

> On the outside, the Ki-201 Karyū

Add a second facepalm here, because it beats mashing my head into my Ikea desk?

> "That's not far from here," Mogami said. "We could be there faster than anything the Navy
> might send out of Barbican if we use *that*."
>
> "We're not even sure *that* works."
>
> "Besides, you've only got two guns," said Shizuka.
>
> "Two more than that liner's got," Mogami pointed out.

And THIS, in the end, is why Mogami is a shipgirl. Just won't say die, and like any other magically active warrior refuses to stand by and NOT do whatever she can.

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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Astynax
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Dec-02-20, 09:14 AM (EDT)
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37. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #25
 
   >And THIS, in the end, is why Mogami is a shipgirl. Just won't say
>die, and like any other magically active warrior refuses to stand by
>and NOT do whatever she can.
>

I'm not sure if it's intended, accidental, or illusory due to proximity, but Mogami seems a lot like Miyafuji in this way. I suspect they'll get along rather well.


-={(Astynax)}=-
"This Space For Rent."


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Terminus Est
Member since Nov-5-04
569 posts
Dec-02-20, 02:43 AM (EDT)
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27. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   Is it just me, or is Neuroi-chan starting to give off serious proto-Fleet of Fog vibes? Coupled with the apparent oncoming of Shipgirls (in the Kancolle sense here, of course) in the setting, might we be about to learn some of what the Neuroi are actually up to?

On the much-belabored subject of the fight scene... honestly, I like it better this way. Not so much because I don't like a good fight, but because G puts out a LOT of those scenes in his work, and they're always good. We have enough prior examples to extrapolate from, and leaving it to the imagination how things went is a nice change of pace. Also, speaking from experience, choreographing a fight scene in text is HARD. Not quite so hard as acting one out, of course - or perhaps hard in a different way might be a better way to put it? Anyway, this is far from the first time we've had a cut-away like this one. There's always room to throw in tidbits in flashbacks later, if such a thing proves to be desirable; getting the story moving along is the better move. If this were a book, I might be a trifle disappointed, but you have to remember that this is a living medium of sorts. We can't read ahead and know what's planned ahead of time (no moreso than, I suspect, G can). And even if the scene doesn't make the cut elsewhere... it's not like we haven't seen plenty of action, or that there isn't more to come.

tl;dr: I eagerly await more of this masterpiece, G.


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Star Ranger4
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Dec-02-20, 02:58 AM (EDT)
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28. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #27
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-20 AT 11:07 AM (EST)
 
While I am okay with not seeing the fight scene in question, since we have seen a lot of them, and the only one uf-g LOOSES is to Utena...

Anyway. The point I was trying to make is that I can see most of the fight scene in my mind. And most of the 'cut away' scenes would mean winding up with a nc-17 rating if we did not.

As they said in 'The Truman Show'.... "We cut away to a shot of the curtains", though they probably leave the microphones active so we can hear all the groans, moans, and OH MY...


Ahem. Oh my. Time to end this post

(Edit to add)
This was not meant to imply that she and G 'did' anything nc-17, but that in my mind the fight was treated in the same way nc-17 content would have been in treated in the middle of non nc-17 material

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-02-20, 03:01 AM (EDT)
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29. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #28
 
   I'm... not sure where you're going with that, but he's engaged and she's a lesbian, so I don't think it would work out. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
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Dec-02-20, 11:03 AM (EDT)
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38. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #29
 
   >I'm... not sure where you're going with that

Not surprising, because half the words I *THOUGHT* I had typed... well... were not.

Time for an edit!

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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Verbena
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Dec-02-20, 06:16 PM (EDT)
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51. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #27
 
   >Is it just me, or is Neuroi-chan starting to give off serious
>proto-Fleet of Fog vibes? Coupled with the apparent oncoming of
>Shipgirls (in the Kancolle sense here, of course) in the setting,
>might we be about to learn some of what the Neuroi are actually up to?


Mmmm...my biggest doubt here is due to the OWAW canon being in-universe fiction. I think we'll definitely see evolutionary parallels, though, first and foremost being 'burgeoning independent AI, struggling with being burdened with -truly existing- for the first time'.


>
>On the much-belabored subject of the fight scene... honestly, I like
>it better this way. Not so much because I don't like a good fight,
>but because G puts out a LOT of those scenes in his work, and they're
>always good. We have enough prior examples to extrapolate
>from, and leaving it to the imagination how things went is a nice
>change of pace. Also, speaking from experience, choreographing a
>fight scene in text is HARD. Not quite so hard as acting one out, of
>course - or perhaps hard in a different way might be a better way to
>put it? Anyway, this is far from the first time we've had a cut-away
>like this one. There's always room to throw in tidbits in flashbacks
>later, if such a thing proves to be desirable; getting the story
>moving along is the better move. If this were a book, I might be a
>trifle disappointed, but you have to remember that this is a living
>medium
of sorts. We can't read ahead and know what's planned
>ahead of time (no moreso than, I suspect, G can). And even if the
>scene doesn't make the cut elsewhere... it's not like we haven't seen
>plenty of action, or that there isn't more to come.
>
>tl;dr: I eagerly await more of this masterpiece, G.


I have a number of thoughts about the fight scene thing, so I'll take them in order:

First, it wasn't more than the first couple of Reimu's lines into the piece when I told myself Gryphon is WAY WAY stronger than this girl. Simply put, she's newly introduced and there's no narrative reason to think she had anything like Flandre's advantages. If she did anything more than put up an honorable but doomed attempt, it would feel too much like a lame shonen anime, like Bleach's or DB's constant oneupsmanship nonsense.

Second, I know next to nothing about Touhou. I neither know nor care what she's like in Touhou canon, because from what we'd read of her so far in this piece she's a retired witch with a desk job. From her behavior we can assume she's not completely powerless, but she comes across as cocky, not genuinely skilled, and in OWaW established canon, she should by all rights be in a combat wing if she has fighting chops left. Her attitude would be better utilized there than in an investigative role, as well.

Third, because of the first two points I fully expected any fight scene to be an anticlimax. I think the scene that deserves more attention is the one where she realizes her error and apologizes, because that shows both character and story development. I didn't think the fight would have shown much of either.

Lastly, and this is a separate note from the fight thing, I feel like Reimu's companions need a little more screen time for me to understand what's going on with them. As it stands now, they feel like stand-ins; like A-Ko and B-Ko.


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-02-20, 09:43 PM (EDT)
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53. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #51
 
   >First, it wasn't more than the first couple of Reimu's lines into the
>piece when I told myself Gryphon is WAY WAY stronger than this girl.
>Simply put, she's newly introduced and there's no narrative reason to
>think she had anything like Flandre's advantages.

There are a few clues, but a lot of that background is actually being held for later explication in order to cut down on the amount of ex tempore exposition required. We don't learn more about her beforehand because (with the exception of Shizuka, who at least knows who she is) the characters she's encountering don't know much about her either.

>Second, I know next to nothing about Touhou. I neither know nor care
>what she's like in Touhou canon, because from what we'd read of her so
>far in this piece she's a retired witch with a desk job.

No, she's around the same age as Shizuka, who takes note of that fact in the bit where she's reflecting on Reimu's change of attitude. That's one of the clues I mentioned above. Even in a setting where military personnel are routinely teenagers, she's very young indeed to be a general officer. Even the other witch generals we know about (Minna, Adolphine Galland, Jenny Doolittle) are in their twenties.

>she should by all rights be in a combat wing if she has fighting chops
>left.

The thing is that she's not really a witch, as such, but we'll get to that when the characters have a chance to catch their breath and do some conversatin'. At the moment they're a little busy. :)

>Her attitude would be better utilized there than in an
>investigative role, as well.

Ironically enough, she would agree with you on that point. She's really not the investigative type, but when you're the Inspector-General of the Emperor's Witches, and the Emperor asks you to go and find out what is going on with a number of his witches, you grab your bugout bag and catch the next flight out.

>Third, because of the first two points I fully expected any fight
>scene to be an anticlimax.

Well, hopefully you won't think so here in a little while, but if you do, sorry in advance. It's obvious from the responses to this one that neither version is going to please everyone. Maybe I should make it modular, like a Choose Your Own Adventure book. "If you want to see the duel scene, turn to page 79. If you want to skip directly to the drunken singing, turn to page 102." :)

>Lastly, and this is a separate note from the fight thing, I feel like
>Reimu's companions need a little more screen time for me to understand
>what's going on with them.

Yes they do.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Verbena
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Dec-03-20, 05:18 PM (EDT)
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57. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #53
 
   >>First, it wasn't more than the first couple of Reimu's lines into the
>>piece when I told myself Gryphon is WAY WAY stronger than this girl.
>>Simply put, she's newly introduced and there's no narrative reason to
>>think she had anything like Flandre's advantages.
>
>There are a few clues, but a lot of that background is actually
>being held for later explication in order to cut down on the amount of
>ex tempore exposition required. We don't learn more about her
>beforehand because (with the exception of Shizuka, who at least knows
>who she is) the characters she's encountering don't know much about
>her either.

First and foremost, I wrote my last post when my blood sugar was somewhere in the 300's. I was...not entirely coherent, and I apologize.

As for the update, yeah. I can't remember if the original version mentioned her hereditary title, but that definitely feels a lot like Sakura from Sakura Taisen there--a reason for her to have more than the bog standard abilities.


>
>>Second, I know next to nothing about Touhou. I neither know nor care
>>what she's like in Touhou canon, because from what we'd read of her so
>>far in this piece she's a retired witch with a desk job.
>
>No, she's around the same age as Shizuka, who takes note of that fact
>in the bit where she's reflecting on Reimu's change of attitude.
>That's one of the clues I mentioned above. Even in a setting where
>military personnel are routinely teenagers, she's very young indeed to
>be a general officer. Even the other witch generals we know about
>(Minna, Adolphine Galland, Jenny Doolittle) are in their twenties.

Clearly I was flat wrong about her being a retired combat witch; I plead incoherence. Or possibly insanity. I will note that I suspect investigators are led by someone with exalted rank primarily to ensure the commands they're investigating can't hide anything behind red tape, so her being a bit younger might be slightly more explainable. I have a feeling that hereditary thing and her independence from the standard chain of command are both factors in why she holds that position.


>
>>she should by all rights be in a combat wing if she has fighting chops
>>left.
>
>The thing is that she's not really a witch, as such, but we'll get to
>that when the characters have a chance to catch their breath and do
>some conversatin'. At the moment they're a little busy. :)

I only realized this when I read that just now: She never manifested a familiar. It's not explicitly mentioned in the text but is obvious in hindsight.

>
>>Her attitude would be better utilized there than in an
>>investigative role, as well.
>
>Ironically enough, she would agree with you on that point. She's
>really not the investigative type, but when you're the
>Inspector-General of the Emperor's Witches, and the Emperor asks you
>to go and find out what is going on with a number of his witches, you
>grab your bugout bag and catch the next flight out.

Yep! I at least managed one point that wasn't entirely dumb. XD


>
>>Third, because of the first two points I fully expected any fight
>>scene to be an anticlimax.
>
>Well, hopefully you won't think so here in a little while, but if you
>do, sorry in advance. It's obvious from the responses to this one
>that neither version is going to please everyone. Maybe I should make
>it modular, like a Choose Your Own Adventure book. "If you want to
>see the duel scene, turn to page 79. If you want to skip directly to
>the drunken singing, turn to page 102." :)

I liked the fight, especially that, contrary to my expectations, appears to have brought some character development to both parties!


>
>>Lastly, and this is a separate note from the fight thing, I feel like
>>Reimu's companions need a little more screen time for me to understand
>>what's going on with them.
>
>Yes they do.

Both of them, plus Perrine, Neuroi-chan, and Yoshika, all benefited greatly (as did the narrative!) with the extra sceneage. I'm inspired by your ability to take constructive criticism and funnel that directly into creativity. Usually I need to stew a bit before I can internalize that kind of thing.

------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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drakensis
Member since Dec-20-06
415 posts
Dec-02-20, 04:04 AM (EDT)
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33. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-20 AT 04:08 AM (EST)
 
Not to sound like a chorus, but cutting away from Gryphon showing Reimu her error seemed like a repeat of the similar issue with Whittle. I can give the latter a pass since 'he's flying? huh, he's flying' would not be a huge scene on its own. And Whittle we at least saw formally accept the correction to her position. Skipping both the fight AND the concession by Reimu does seem unfortunate.

Onto another point: if the wedding is on, will Gryphon's existing family be represented?

I do have this image of him turning up, the organist starts playing... Gryphon suddenly realises it's Kaitlyn on the organ, but this is not the time or place to say hi because the bride is already walking down the aisle and where did the best man go...? And then Utena turns up next to him holding the box with the ring, greeting him with a quiet "Okay, dad, you got this..."

In short, powers mysterious but benevolent are going to see that this turns out well.

D.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-02-20, 04:13 AM (EDT)
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34. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #33
 
   >where did the best man go...? And then Utena turns up
>next to him holding the box with the ring, greeting him with a quiet
>"Okay, dad, you got this..."

On a point of order, if anyone shows up and arbitrarily tries to take Mio Sakamoto's place as best witch, there will be a fight, which may not be in keeping with the spirit of the occasion. :)

--G.
as epic as Mio v. Utena would undoubtably be
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Zemyla
Member since Mar-26-08
430 posts
Dec-02-20, 12:08 PM (EDT)
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42. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #34
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-20 AT 12:26 PM (EST)
 
>On a point of order, if anyone shows up and arbitrarily tries to take
>Mio Sakamoto's place as best witch, there will be a fight, which may
>not be in keeping with the spirit of the occasion. :)
>
>--G.
>as epic as Mio v. Utena would undoubtably be

Yeah, that happens at the reception, not the wedding itself. It's tradition now.

But yeah, now I'm imagining the goggling from the audience as pretty much every member of the Grave Feminine Conspiracy shows up to this little church in rural France.

EDIT: I just realized that Mio dual-wields. This means we could see Utena pull out the Heart and Thorn at the same time for the first time since I believe her fight with Akio.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-02-20, 01:46 PM (EDT)
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45. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #42
 
   >But yeah, now I'm imagining the goggling from the audience as pretty
>much every member of the Grave Feminine Conspiracy shows up to this
>little church in rural France.

There are only three problem with this thesis:

- it's not little;
- it's not in a rural area; and
- it's not in France. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Our_Lady,_Bruges

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Zemyla
Member since Mar-26-08
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Dec-02-20, 01:49 PM (EDT)
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47. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #45
 
   Oof. That's what I get for not checking.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-15-20, 01:26 AM (EDT)
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58. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #33
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-20 AT 01:31 AM (EST)
 
(actually, I should put this in the newer OWaW 21 thread, so that people can reply without worrying about making this thread too much longer. so I will)


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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
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Dec-02-20, 12:05 PM (EDT)
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41. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
   There's been lots and lots of comments. Me, I don't have a strong preference either way. I like what's there, I'm sure I'd like what would be there if you change it, G. But no-one commented on this:

"In the 50st Joint Fighter Wing's operations office, Amélie Planchard was<...>"

so I am noting it. You lost a "1", methinks.

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"


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Pasha
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Dec-02-20, 08:36 PM (EDT)
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52. "RE: OWaW 21: Sea Trials"
In response to message #0
 
  
>EDITED TO NOTE: If you just arrived, you should probably be aware
>that, owing to some of the traffic you'll see below, I'm already
>thinking about rewriting this one. :/

If you do, and far be it from me to stop you, but I'm on team "keep the fight scene out". I liked that we could read between the lines of "she thought his methods were bullshit, they threw down and he showed her in the only way she'd get across that they aren't, cut to the follow up of them returning home drunken friends"

--
-Pasha
"Don't change the subject"
"Too slow, already did."


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