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Subject: "Project Phoenix 3" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences Undocumented Features General Topic #2091
Reading Topic #2091, reply 18
Zox
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May-16-10, 08:51 AM (EDT)
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18. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #16
 
   > He is young, healthy, strong, and has NO memory of what has happened.

That's not what it says.

"Regardless, he's about your young friend's age now," he went on, gesturing to Rachel. "Lost most of his memories, poor lad. He'll have to go back to the Academy, re-sit his exams. Can you imagine the horror? But he seems to be taking it in stride. Happier than he's been in centuries." The Master shrugged. "To each his own. Personally, I think he's a little sweet on your protege," he added to the Doctor.

We aren't told exactly what Tobernel still remembers--just that he doesn't have "most of his memories." He obviously remembers enough to be "a little sweet on" Rachel, so it may be that his long-term memories--his life experience--is what was lost, not his memories of the last few moments before his regeneration

I would speculate his situation is similar to Rachel's Phoenix-supplied memories. He remembers some of what happened, but it feels like it happened to someone else.

(As for "happier than he's been in centuries," remember this is the Master speaking--not a man well-acquainted with happiness, and perhaps not the best source for such an evaluation.) :)

---
Rob Madson, a.k.a. Zox
http://lordzox.com/
It is said a Shaolin chef can wok through walls...


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Project Phoenix 3 [View All] Matrix Dragon May-15-10 TOP
   RE: Project Phoenix 3 BeardedFerret May-15-10 1
      RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-15-10 3
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 BeardedFerret May-15-10 4
   RE: Project Phoenix 3 WengFook May-15-10 2
      RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-15-10 5
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 BeardedFerret May-15-10 6
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-15-10 7
   RE: Project Phoenix 3 Zox May-15-10 8
      RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-16-10 13
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 Matrix Dragon May-16-10 15
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 mdg1 May-16-10 17
      RE: Project Phoenix 3 clg May-16-10 26
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-16-10 27
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 BeardedFerret May-17-10 28
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 clg May-17-10 29
                  RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-17-10 30
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 trboturtle2 May-18-10 35
   RE: Project Phoenix 3 Meagen May-15-10 9
      RE: Project Phoenix 3 Peter Eng May-16-10 12
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-16-10 14
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 Apostate_Soul May-16-10 23
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 jhosmer1 May-17-10 31
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 BobSchroeck May-17-10 32
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 dbrandon May-18-10 34
   RE: Project Phoenix 3 MoonEyes May-15-10 10
      RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-15-10 11
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 MoonEyes May-16-10 16
             RE: Project Phoenix 3 Zox May-16-10 18
                  RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-16-10 19
                      RE: Project Phoenix 3 Zox May-16-10 20
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 Soulscode May-16-10 24
   RE: Project Phoenix 3 Star Ranger4 May-16-10 21
      RE: Project Phoenix 3 Gryphonadmin May-16-10 22
          RE: Project Phoenix 3 Mister Fnord May-16-10 25
              RE: Project Phoenix 3 Star Ranger4 May-17-10 33

BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
514 posts
May-15-10, 07:41 AM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #0
 
   VERY nice. If nothing else, it's a much better resolution for the Time War, Rose, the Tenth Doctor and the Master than the recent series has managed.

And was that the console room from the TV Movie? Legendary.


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Gryphonadmin
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May-15-10, 08:22 AM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #1
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-15-10 AT 10:23 PM (EDT)
 
>VERY nice. If nothing else, it's a much better resolution for
>the Time War, Rose, the Tenth Doctor and the Master than the
>recent series has managed.

Well, as I noted before posting The Way to Go Home, they're operating under a set of constraints I don't have to deal with. But yeah, basically, the UF Doctor is like the Tenth Doctor? Except shit works out for him sometimes. :) (It does help a lot that in UF, Rose's existence is entirely independent of whether Billie Piper wants to live in Cardiff. :)

I do kind of miss the Towering Inferno, but I don't know that even the UF universe is big enough to contain both her and advanced-model Rose. :)

>And was that the console room from the TV Movie? Legendary.

Yes, yes it was. I loooooove me the 1996 Console Room. (Actually, all three of the Console Rooms since the original series appeared here, though one, the Series 1-4 one, is in a different TARDIS - Rose's Type 37 - and the Series 5 one only appears in Rachel's brief visit to the future that never happened.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
514 posts
May-15-10, 08:30 AM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #3
 
   >>And was that the console room from the TV Movie? Legendary.
>
>Yes, yes it was. I loooooove me the 1996 Console Room. (Actually,
>all three of the Console Rooms since the original series appeared
>here, though one, the Series 1-4 one, is in a different TARDIS -
>Rose's Type 37 - and the Series 5 one only appears in Rachel's brief
>visit to the future that never happened.)

Please take this token, redeemable for one (1) high five.


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WengFook
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May-15-10, 08:17 AM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #0
 
  
An enjoyably brilliant story! I do like how Ben has said all this while that the time war didn't happen for this Doctor and the other time lords and then splendidly tied it into the last Project Phoenix chapter. :) Was that the plan all along?

Also nicely done getting in all the different versions of the Tardis, If I'm not mistaken Griffin's got the original tardis, the Doctor has the movie Tardis and now Rose has the coral one from the 2005 reboot. Brilliant.

One thing I think that wasn't made clear in the narrative is how Tobernel saw the full vision that was downloaded from the eleventh doctor about the start of the time war?


_______________________________
Take your candle, go light your world.


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Gryphonadmin
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May-15-10, 08:30 AM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #2
 
   >Was that the plan all along?

Aw, that would be telling. :)

(Honestly, it wasn't - it just unfolded that way in my head after I finally got around to watching The End of Time. "But wait, if - so then - aha!")

>Also nicely done getting in all the different versions of the Tardis,
>If I'm not mistaken Griffin's got the original tardis, the Doctor has
>the movie Tardis and now Rose has the coral one from the 2005 reboot.
>Brilliant.

Close! Don's Console Room is mostly white, but it's a lot bigger than the old show's - more like the size of the TV-movie's - and the decor is more stylized. So instead of the Victorian iron bridge things in the TV-movie set, his has Forbidden Planet UFO landing gear standing around the console, and the console is mostly big chunky knife switches and black Bakelite knobs instead of wood and brass. It's basically the TV-movie set decoed in 1950s Raygun Provincial instead of Steampunk. I've had a pretty clear image of it in my mind since Destroys the Marvel Universe - if only I could draw. :)

>One thing I think that wasn't made clear in the narrative is how
>Tobernel saw the full vision that was downloaded from the eleventh
>doctor about the start of the time war?

He was standing very close to the center of the storm that resulted when Rachel hit the Wait Don't Go There button - I assumed that she dumped it on him by way of explaining why she was aborting the mission, as it were, but you're right, I could've made it clearer.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
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May-15-10, 08:32 AM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #5
 
   >>Was that the plan all along?
>
>Aw, that would be telling. :)
>
>(Honestly, it wasn't - it just unfolded that way in my head after I
>finally got around to watching The End of Time. "But wait, if
>- so then - aha!")

Wow, could have fooled me. It explains the Project Phoenix name quite well.


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Gryphonadmin
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May-15-10, 08:34 AM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #6
 
   >>>Was that the plan all along?
>>
>>Aw, that would be telling. :)
>>
>>(Honestly, it wasn't - it just unfolded that way in my head after I
>>finally got around to watching The End of Time. "But wait, if
>>- so then - aha!")
>
>Wow, could have fooled me. It explains the Project Phoenix name quite
>well.

Oh, I always knew Tobernel had grabbed Rachel out of her original time specifically because he wanted to make use of the Phoenix for something. I just wasn't entirely sure what until a couple weeks ago. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Zox
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May-15-10, 04:08 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-15-10 AT 04:20 PM (EDT)
 
I just finished reading this, and I'm going to go back and read it at least once more before the day is done.

This was excellent. Everything ties together, and everyone's in character, which is more than I can say for some recent Doctor Who episodes.

(SPOILER ALERT for those who haven't seen any of the new season yet...)

.
.
.
.
.

(SPOILER BEGINS HERE) Seriously, provoking apparently-tame Daleks so they go berzerk in WWII London? I don't care how much the Doctor's been traumatized, that sort of hate-spitting idiocy isn't plausible coming from him. Tobernel's anti-Dalek speech in PP3 seems to have borrowed a bit from that tirade, and it fits much better in his mouth than in the Doctor's.

---
Rob Madson, a.k.a. Zox
http://lordzox.com/
It is said a Shaolin chef can wok through walls...


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Gryphonadmin
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May-16-10, 03:04 AM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #8
 
   >This was excellent. Everything ties together, and everyone's
>in character, which is more than I can say for some recent
>Doctor Who episodes.
>
>(SPOILER ALERT for those who haven't seen any of the new season
>yet...)
>
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>
>(SPOILER BEGINS HERE) Seriously, provoking apparently-tame Daleks so
>they go berzerk in WWII London? I don't care how much the
>Doctor's been traumatized, that sort of hate-spitting idiocy isn't
>plausible coming from him.

Well, you can hardly say it came out of nowhere, though. I mean, as far back as the very first Dalek episode in the new series, they made a point of demonstrating that just the sight of one of the damn things makes the Doctor' lose his shit. Badass Doctor #9 nearly wet himself at the sight of one busted one, then gleefully stood there torturing it until several burly lads dragged him away. And there was #10's line in, what was it, "Daleks in Manhattan" - "They always survive while I lose everything."

Mind you, I could just be defending the decision because without it, we wouldn't have gotten the best Dalek line ever uttered on screen. It was pretty weak otherwise. :)

Fortunately, not really a problem for the UF model. Yeah, the Daleks are old, old-timey foes of his, but it's not like they've forced him to destroy his home planet and/or repeatedly ruined his entire life. Well, they did cause the love of his life to get trapped for three years, or possibly ten, in a parallel dimension, but what the hell, I mean, in the long run it was probably good for both of them. When would she have had the time to do all that studying otherwise? :)

--G.
YOU DO NOT RE-QUI-RE TEA?!
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Matrix Dragon
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May-16-10, 04:04 AM (EDT)
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15. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #13
 
   Personally, I'm hoping that the cracks in time and their ability to erase/rewrite history get applied to the Time War, letting the Doctor earn a happy ending for once... And rewrite the Daleks to being an enemy that are no longer instant doom for all.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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mdg1
Member since Aug-25-04
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May-16-10, 08:07 AM (EDT)
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17. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #13
 
   Which line was that?

Now I'm picturing Utena or someone calling up the local Orkin branch to deal with an infestation of tribbles, and hearing "THIS IS PEST CON-TROL"

Mario


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clg
Member since Sep-20-05
108 posts
May-16-10, 10:44 PM (EDT)
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26. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #8
 
   >(SPOILER ALERT for those who haven't seen any of the new season
>yet...)
>
>Seriously, provoking apparently-tame Daleks so
>they go berzerk in WWII London? I don't care how much the
>Doctor's been traumatized, that sort of hate-spitting idiocy isn't
>plausible coming from him.

Huh. In hindsight, that is a bit weird.

I must not have noticed over the glaring awfulness of the Mighty Morphin' Dalek Rangers.

- Chad


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Gryphonadmin
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May-16-10, 11:30 PM (EDT)
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27. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #26
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-16-10 AT 11:31 PM (EDT)
 
>I must not have noticed over the glaring awfulness of the Mighty
>Morphin' Dalek Rangers.

Now, now. There is an ancient and honorable tradition of brightly colored Daleks. It goes back to the 1965 feature film Dr. Who and the Daleks (and its 1966 sequel, Daleks: Invasion Earth 2150), starring Peter Cushing. The films were made at a time when the television show was still in black and white, so the producers made the Daleks vividly colorful because, hey, it was the first opportunity the fans had to see them in color at all.

(That kind of thing happened a lot back then, particularly in the early days of color TV - it's why, for instance, the original Star Trek has so many improbably garish colors in its sets and costumes.)

Anyway, the Victory Daleks are clearly not a sentai team. There's no green one. :)

That said, you did just give me a lovely idea for a Galactipedia entry.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
514 posts
May-17-10, 06:02 AM (EDT)
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28. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #27
 
   >That said, you did just give me a lovely idea for a Galactipedia
>entry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sXpInWFVVo

Five Daleks with attitude.


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clg
Member since Sep-20-05
108 posts
May-17-10, 08:22 AM (EDT)
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29. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #27
 
   >Now, now. There is an ancient and honorable tradition of brightly
>colored Daleks. It goes back to the 1965 feature film Dr. Who and
>the Daleks
(and its 1966 sequel, Daleks: Invasion Earth
>2150
), starring Peter Cushing. The films were made at a time when
>the television show was still in black and white, so the producers
>made the Daleks vividly colorful because, hey, it was the first
>opportunity the fans had to see them in color at all.

Huh. Did not know that. Not really up on my classic Doctor Who. So this is, officially, how the Daleks are supposed to look?

>Anyway, the Victory Daleks are clearly not a sentai team.
>There's no green one. :)

True, but there is a white one. I think that makes up for it.

>That said, you did just give me a lovely idea for a Galactipedia
>entry.

MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE

(but seriously, please do this)

- Chad


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Gryphonadmin
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May-17-10, 09:07 AM (EDT)
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30. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #29
 
   >So this is, officially, how the Daleks are supposed to look?

Well, no, not as such - the movies aren't a direct part of the TV show's story, they're elaborate retellings of a couple of TV episodes ("The Daleks" and "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" respectively). In more recent times they've been retconned by the ineffable will of the fandom into a sort of Macross: Do You Remember Love? concept (i.e., some people like to think they're movies "inside" the Doctor Who universe, based on the memoirs of one of the Doctor's early companions). Even when the show went to color, the Daleks were still just grey for most of the remaining run, because they already had the props and paint costs money. :)

It's one of the odd things about British pop culture that for a while there in the '60s, the Daleks were huge, a much bigger fad/phenomenon than Doctor Who itself. For a while there it looked like the people behind the movies might go on to do a whole series of Dalek films that didn't involve the Doctor at all. The UF universe's Dalek 207 franchise is a nod to that notion, as well as a riff on James Bond and a a few other things, though presumably they'd still have been villains in the planned '60s film series - Terry Nation, their creator, was always very particular that they always be played straight and evil, never deliberately used as figures of fun. Dalek 207 would thus presumably have annoyed him a great deal.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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trboturtle2
Member since Jul-4-09
210 posts
May-18-10, 11:13 AM (EDT)
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35. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #27
 
   >That said, you did just give me a lovely idea for a Galactipedia
>entry.
>
>--G.

Would probably end up looking a litle like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWn_1yOFpfU

And as for Daleks being treated as serious....good thing he never saw Youtube -- if the Pakastani Dalek isn't less than serious enough for you, try the Northen Irland Daleks, or the Dalek song....

Craig

----------------------------
IAMTW-Nominated Author

Author of the Battletech Novels, Icons of War,
Elements of Treason: Duty, Elements of Treason:
Opportunity
, and Elements of Treason: Honor

Co-author of Four Outcast Ops
novels -- African Firestorm, Red Ice, Watchlist, and
Shadow Government.

Author of the The Russia-Ukraine War Factbook (Vol 1)

All-around nice guy!


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Meagen
Member since Jul-14-02
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May-15-10, 04:25 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #0
 
   It was awesome! I haven't really seen any of the shows this was based on and I only have a vague idea of what some of the stuff was about (it's not entirely clear what the Drums are without context, but I can tell it's a sort of "oh, while we're fixing problems that serve as a recurring source of conflict on the show..."), but it was still awesome. Yay, heroism! And quips! And massive cosmic-altering powers! And everything being okay at the end!

The part where Tobernel was rhapsodising about how special Rachel was and it was becoming increasingly apparent he was *serious* was fairly chilling (in a "what has this psycho come up with *now*" sort of way). I was more or less half expecting it to end with him shoving Rachel into the Eye, but of course, Time Lords. They have much fancier high-tech ways of shoving people into things. :)

--
With great power come great perks.


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Peter Eng
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May-16-10, 02:54 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #9
 
   >(it's not entirely clear what the Drums are without context, but I can
>tell it's a sort of "oh, while we're fixing problems that serve as a
>recurring source of conflict on the show...")

As I understand it, the Drums are a sound that the Master hears all the time, which was somehow connected with the Time War between the Daleks and the Time Lords.

So by not starting the Time War, Rachel removed the source of the Drums. And since it appears that the Drums were part of what caused The Master's "take over the world and destroy the Doctor" insanity (seriously, constant drumming would drive anybody around the bend), he comes out of it a much better man.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Gryphonadmin
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May-16-10, 03:21 AM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #12
 
   >As I understand it, the Drums are a sound that the Master hears all
>the time, which was somehow connected with the Time War between the
>Daleks and the Time Lords.

Yes - caused by the Time Lords themselves, no less. On the last day of the Time War, knowing that they were about to lose, the High Council decided to pull out all the stops, toss aside the Laws of Time altogether, and retroactively make the Master their get-out-of-a-hopeless-temporal-lock-free card by retroactively implanting a sort of homing signal in his mind when he was a child. Of course, that had the slight side effect of subjecting him to a constant drumming sound in his head, which drove him completely insane, but hey, you can't cheat your way out of a Time War without breaking a few eggs, right?

(The End of Time makes it pretty clear that by the end of the war, the Time Lords as a civilization were no longer worth saving. They'd gotten so ruthless and depraved that they even resurrected Rassilon to lead them, figuring hey, if history's most cruel and vicious tyrant can't get us out of this, who can? It sort of strongly implies that whatever the Doctor did to 86 them along with the Daleks, he considered it a mercy killing.)

>So by not starting the Time War, Rachel removed the source of the
>Drums.

Yep. Mind you, in strict causal terms that should mean that they never happened in the first place; the fact that the Master still perceived them until the point in his lifestream that corresponded to the Project Phoenix incident on Gallifrey is an indication of just how screwed up the whole cause-effect relationship got with respect to the Time War. Hell, Don was wondering why GCC 616/M collapsed back in Destroys? Dollars/donuts it had something to do with the tremendous strain the mere concept of the war put on spacetime. Sometimes just the idea of a thing is as dangerous as the thing itself...

This is why I don't often get as cosmic as this. It makes my head hurt. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Apostate_Soul
Member since Aug-22-08
155 posts
May-16-10, 01:40 PM (EDT)
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23. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #14
 
  
>Yep. Mind you, in strict causal terms that should mean that they
>never happened in the first place; the fact that the Master still
>perceived them until the point in his lifestream that corresponded to
>the Project Phoenix incident on Gallifrey is an indication of just how
>screwed up the whole cause-effect relationship got with respect
>to the Time War. Hell, Don was wondering why GCC 616/M collapsed back
>in Destroys? Dollars/donuts it had something to do with the
>tremendous strain the mere concept of the war put on spacetime.
> Sometimes just the idea of a thing is as dangerous as the thing
>itself...
>
>This is why I don't often get as cosmic as this. It makes my head
>hurt. :)

Yes, but you're forgetting what can only be described as the Kline/Tesseract effect. Originating from a timeline that is an independent closed loop outside of but concurrent to the timeline of the rest of the universe- think of a thin ridge around the inner ring of a Doughnut, where the Doughnut is the time/spaceline for the rest of the universe- then due to being initially from the outide of that timeline, they can observe the effects withing that timeline and be affected by them while not actually being bound up in normal causality. So the Subjective Timeline for the Master is concurrent with the timeline for Gallifrey, along with the S/T's for the Doctor, Griffin, et cetera. It's a lot easier to think about if you think of it like that. Certainly better than the n-dimensional skein of knitting that many people try to use.

Why yes, I do suffer from Insomnia. It gives me the time to think in terms of such things.

"It's difficult keeping up with the cross-continuity, but I think Cosmouse just gave The Saturnian Scraphunter his Ultimate Pacifier to use against Galactapuss..."


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jhosmer1
Member since Jan-11-07
185 posts
May-17-10, 09:15 AM (EDT)
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31. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #14
 
   >Yep. Mind you, in strict causal terms that should mean that they
>never happened in the first place; the fact that the Master still
>perceived them until the point in his lifestream that corresponded to
>the Project Phoenix incident on Gallifrey is an indication of just how
>screwed up the whole cause-effect relationship got with respect
>to the Time War. Hell, Don was wondering why GCC 616/M collapsed back
>in Destroys? Dollars/donuts it had something to do with the
>tremendous strain the mere concept of the war put on spacetime.
> Sometimes just the idea of a thing is as dangerous as the thing
>itself...

When one of the participants in the Time War is "The Could-Have-Been King and His Army of Mean-Whiles and Never-Weres," you get an idea of how hard it is even to CONCEIVE of such a thing. The Time Lord Council talks about millions of beings dying and being recreated, so I can only assume that both the Time Lords and the Daleks keep going back in time to reverse their failures, so that the other side goes back in time to reverse the reversal... oi vey.

And as for Rassilon's Final Sanction... sounds to me like something Surtur would have enjoyed.


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BobSchroeck
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2258 posts
May-17-10, 12:20 PM (EDT)
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32. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #12
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-17-10 AT 12:20 PM (EDT)
 
>(seriously, constant drumming would drive anybody around the bend),

Hell, it's an old movie cliche:

British explorer in jungle: Those drums are driving me mad!

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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dbrandon
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220 posts
May-18-10, 08:15 AM (EDT)
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34. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #32
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-18-10 AT 08:16 AM (EDT)
 
Native guide: We fine until drums stop-- then we in BIG trouble.

British explorer: Oh? What happens then?

{ominous pause}

Native guide: Horn solo.


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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
1125 posts
May-15-10, 06:54 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #0
 
   Interesting. A bit disappointing, to me, to not see a 'proper' punishment. I mean, Tobernel basically almost killed off all life in the universe, across all time. And he didn't even get PUNCHED for it. But still, a good ride.

Interesting also to see the Immovable Blob. I can't say as how I remember him from any other story, so...is he someone we will see more of, or is he just a quickly passing by X-name?

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The
Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-
Covered Balls!"


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Gryphonadmin
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May-15-10, 07:23 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #10
 
   >Interesting. A bit disappointing, to me, to not see a 'proper'
>punishment. I mean, Tobernel basically almost killed off all life in
>the universe, across all time. And he didn't even get PUNCHED for it.

Tell you what - you go insane with terror from a glimpse of the future, find out as it is narrowly averted that it would all have been your fault in the first place, die of a heart(s) attack, lose most of your memory, and have to go through your culture's equivalent of high school, college, and grad school all over again, and then tell me if you feel like you haven't been punished. :)

>Interesting also to see the Immovable Blob. I can't say as how I
>remember him from any other story, so...is he someone we will see more
>of, or is he just a quickly passing by X-name?

Just an offhand reference. He's one of Rachel & co.'s classmates at Beiwiru District High. Probably (like most of the others) the X-Men Evolution version, or most closely based on that one. He might turn up again, Rachel alludes earlier in The Eye of Harmony to Fred being one of the students Don's given the We Ought To Help People lecture to, but I have no firm plans for him at the moment.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
1125 posts
May-16-10, 06:43 AM (EDT)
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16. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #11
 
   >Tell you what - you go insane with terror from a glimpse of the
>future, find out as it is narrowly averted that it would all have been
>your fault in the first place, die of a heart(s) attack, lose most of
>your memory, and have to go through your culture's equivalent of high
>school, college, and grad school all over again, and then tell me if
>you feel like you haven't been punished. :)

I'm not saying he should be drawn and quartered!

But, he, under false pretenses, drag the gang to Gallifrey, where he imprisons Don and the Doctor, and gives order to detain Rose and Kitty. Admittedly, 'don't harm them unless...' but that still leaves the 'unless'. He then more or less tries to feed Rachel to a black hole! And all of this on a hallucination that he himself admits drove him stark bloody mad. And, in the end, he nearly starts what he saw. Not ONCE during this, as it seems, does he even consider the fact that he could have seen something that will never come to pass, or that what he saw will happen, but not the way he saw it, as indeed is the case. No, he is quite self-righteously sure that he is the sole arbiter of what must be done, For The Greater Good Of All!

Quite honestly, in all of that, a a good solid bop on the nose is the least he deserves. In my opinion, at least. Now, admittedly, he has had quite a bit taken from him...but with the memory loss, there is no SENSE of that. He is young, healthy, strong, and has NO memory of what has happened. He won't even feel bad about it, because it's a non-item. Others might feel he has been punished, or whatever. But to him, he is 16 and none of this happened to HIM.

This is how it felt to me. This very small thing, however, is the one single, and honestly quite small 'itch', despite what became a rather long post, in what was a very good story.

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The
Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-
Covered Balls!"


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Zox
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335 posts
May-16-10, 08:51 AM (EDT)
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18. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #16
 
   > He is young, healthy, strong, and has NO memory of what has happened.

That's not what it says.

"Regardless, he's about your young friend's age now," he went on, gesturing to Rachel. "Lost most of his memories, poor lad. He'll have to go back to the Academy, re-sit his exams. Can you imagine the horror? But he seems to be taking it in stride. Happier than he's been in centuries." The Master shrugged. "To each his own. Personally, I think he's a little sweet on your protege," he added to the Doctor.

We aren't told exactly what Tobernel still remembers--just that he doesn't have "most of his memories." He obviously remembers enough to be "a little sweet on" Rachel, so it may be that his long-term memories--his life experience--is what was lost, not his memories of the last few moments before his regeneration

I would speculate his situation is similar to Rachel's Phoenix-supplied memories. He remembers some of what happened, but it feels like it happened to someone else.

(As for "happier than he's been in centuries," remember this is the Master speaking--not a man well-acquainted with happiness, and perhaps not the best source for such an evaluation.) :)

---
Rob Madson, a.k.a. Zox
http://lordzox.com/
It is said a Shaolin chef can wok through walls...


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22374 posts
May-16-10, 09:41 AM (EDT)
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19. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #18
 
   >We aren't told exactly what Tobernel still remembers--just that
>he doesn't have "most of his memories." He obviously remembers enough
>to be "a little sweet on" Rachel, so it may be that his long-term
>memories--his life experience--is what was lost, not his memories of
>the last few moments before his regeneration

Heh! I won't argue with the rest of your thesis, but for the record, the Master was actually talking about Ace there. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Zox
Charter Member
335 posts
May-16-10, 11:15 AM (EDT)
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20. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #19
 
   >Heh! I won't argue with the rest of your thesis, but for the record,
>the Master was actually talking about Ace there. :)

Oops! I got the wrong protege--sorry 'bout that.

I must say that in either case, it's proof that Tobernel--whatever he may have been, whatever he may have lost--has emerged from this experience with impeccable taste. :)

---
Rob Madson, a.k.a. Zox
http://lordzox.com/
It is said a Shaolin chef can wok through walls...


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Soulscode
Member since Aug-2-08
38 posts
May-16-10, 01:53 PM (EDT)
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24. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #16
 
   I dunno, maybe in the realistic scheme of things he got off light, but it seems to me that it fits in with some of the larger themes of redemption that have percolated through the UF works since SoS. Come to think of it, the Master being made "all better" falls under the same theme in a small way as well.

-----
It would have been an accidental shooting, had he not reloaded... twice.


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Star Ranger4
Charter Member
2483 posts
May-16-10, 12:40 PM (EDT)
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21. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #0
 
   >Oh my Lord, that was fantastic. Good wacky Doctor Who fun, everyone
>being awesome (Except Ace, who is justifiably irritated at being left
>out of the adventure, I see), and then it got even better. You take
>the Time War and fix it, along with creating the cause of it in the
>first place, and by having Eleven and the latest Master make a little
>interception no less.
>
Thats who they were? Huh... Good to know, because while I love the source, its not exactly a gotta follow every last little twist degree of fandom.

That was one point were I got lost; the other being that I guess I didnt totally parse the goings on of the Prof Enigma entry in context. so to confirm:

Rose plays the Professor?
And she just got the exact same TARDIS that 'She' has in the show?

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22374 posts
May-16-10, 01:17 PM (EDT)
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22. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #21
 
   >Rose plays the Professor?

Yes.

>And she just got the exact same TARDIS that 'She' has in the show?

Well, sort of; she made it look like that, it's not a coincidence.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Mister Fnord
Charter Member
294 posts
May-16-10, 02:12 PM (EDT)
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25. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #22
 
   >Well, sort of; she made it look like that, it's not a
>coincidence.

"You've changed the desktop theme, haven't you?"

--
Mr. Fnord


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Star Ranger4
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2483 posts
May-17-10, 02:00 PM (EDT)
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33. "RE: Project Phoenix 3"
In response to message #25
 
   >>Well, sort of; she made it look like that, it's not a
>>coincidence.
>
>"You've changed the desktop theme, haven't you?"
>
Heh, right, the bit about the outer shell. Still once I parsed the connection I have to wonder how much was planning on Rose's part and how much was the Tardis attuning itself to her and picking that out of her subconscious. Of course, we are now investigating WAY to closely. Enjoyable read, I'll be moving along now. ;)

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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