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Subject: "Characters you'd love to see in NF"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences The New Frontier Topic #22
Reading Topic #22, reply 23
Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
935 posts
Feb-04-14, 01:17 AM (EDT)
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23. "RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF"
In response to message #22
 
   LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-14 AT 01:19 AM (EST)
 
>I respect Fraction's work, I enjoyed the crap out of Five Fists of
>Science
, and I have it on reasonably good authority that he's a
>pretty hoopy frood to hang out with in person...
>
>... but I haaaaaated his run on Invincible Iron Man.

Okay, see, now I just don't know what to think, as it was the general awesomeness of his run on Invincible Iron Man that made me seek out everything he'd ever written. I enjoyed watching him turn Pepper Potts into a superhero in a way that didn't just make her Iron Maiden. I especially enjoyed watching Pepper Potts completely dominate Norman Osborne, and oh man, the way he managed to undo the character damage Civil War had done to Tony (who thought making Iron Man a supervillain was a good idea, I ask you) in a believable, interesting, and poignant way? I teared up.

To be fair, Five Nightmares is the weakest arc of that whole run.

>>Short version: 'bout twenty years, a fellow named Gregory Maguire
>>wrote Wicked a fictional biography of Elphaba Thropp, the
>>Wicked Witch of the West, of Wizard of Oz fame.
>
>The Wicked Witch of the West had a name? At the risk of
>sounding like a Star Trek fan, is that canon? (It's not going
>to affect my assessment either way, I'm just a bit curious, is all.)

It isn't canon in the sense that L. Frank Baum ever assigned her one, no. She's just "the Witch" in the novels, much as she is in the movie. I suppose you could consider what Maguire was doing fanfic, as he simply took a public domain property and wrote his own stories about it, a la Alan Moore in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

At this point, to run with your Star Trek comparison, the Wicked Witch of the West being named Elphaba Thropp is equivalent to Uhura's first name being Nyota1 or Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet; it isn't technically canon, but over the past two decades it's become an enormously solid part of the brand, especially since more people these days are familiar with Wicked than they are the actual novels it bastardizes.

She is also, obviously, not a crazy lady bent on getting her murder on in the direction of cherubic midwesterners in Wicked. I would not propose Anthy hang out with someone who cackles unironically, because Anthy? Has standards.

>In hindsight, I've always thought it was hilarious that the bĂȘte
>noir
of Ludlum's original novel was Carlos the Jackal, whom
>later scholarship has revealed to have been the comically incompetent
>Walter Mitty of the terrorist world. It's like reading a novel from
>the '30s speculating that in the '40s, the European dictator who would
>end up crushing half the world under his disciplined, fanatical,
>superbly equipped, initially-unstoppable juggernaut of an army would
>be Mussolini.

Also fun: Tom Clancy, who should have known better, featured Carlos' fanatical followers taking an amusement park hostage in order to force the French to release him as one of the major plot points of Rainbow Six.

I have also actually met people who did not know that Carlos was a real person. Is a real person, I guess. I do take your overall point, but, well... I was sort of expecting effective fictional Carlos, not Treadstone, who were a curious blend of "ruthlessly efficient" and "comically inept."

>>And I've heard vaguely
>>that the franchise involved a lot of fridging of the women in Bourne's
>>life, which is always a negative in my book.
>
>As far as I know, there was only ever the one woman in Bourne's
>life in that sense, and she does get killed in the second film. That
>made me angry when it happened, though in retrospect Jason Bourne is
>very much the kind of person that sort of thing happens around.

Huh. I'd heard there were actually a whole series of sympathy frags. That might just be one of those things one hears on the intertubes, I s'pose. And I am relieved for once that something is less hateful towards ladies than I had heard it was, usually it is the other way around!

>(Rather more so than the canonical
>woman-in-refrigerator incident, which... uh, didn't. On any level.)

I have had very long and barely civil exchanges with otherwise intelligent people who just do not get why what happened to Alexandra deWitt was awful on the multiple levels it was. I'll just leave it at that.

>Anyway. It's been a while since I watched Supremacy and I
>haven't seen Ultimatum, because I got that sick of
>Christopher Rouse's spastic music video editing style in

Yeah, another reason I never made time for the sequels.

>I liked The Bourne Legacy, but then I like Jeremy Renner's
>Universal Action Everyman character. He has a way of being just
>utterly weary at the appropriate points in the rampant
>badassery that's missing from a lot of the more square-jawed
>face-punchers in the league. (He does it in The Avengers when
>Hawkeye crashes through the window and has to just lie there for a
>second going Aaaagh, fuck, no superpowers. :) One's
>mileage may vary.

I heartily concur. Renner has great screen presence in general, which is more important for that sort of character than being an actual skilled thespian is, in my opinion. Not that Renner is unskilled, of course.

>There's a scene in Legacy where Renner's character, Aaron
>Cross, is in a room with another guy from the post-Treadstone
>super-soldier program he's part of, and he keeps doggedly trying to
>strike up a friendly conversation. It visibly unnerves the
>fuck out of the other agent that a) Cross is trying to engage
>with him on a human level and b) Cross is able to try to engage
>with him on a human level.

Well, you had my curiosity, and now you have my attention. The previews did not in any way indicate Legacy would be that sort of film; in fact, they gave the distinct impression that what we'd receive would be Jason Bourne, but now with less of that annoying humanity and more soulless revenge killin'.

Looks like I know what I'll be doing the next couple days.

>MARIA
>You'd probably just forget about me anyway.
>
>BOURNE
>How could I forget about you? You're the only person I know.

The ability to deliver lines like that and make it work is part of why I have such affection for Matt Damon. I don't think he's the bestest actor in the world or anything but when he decides "okay, I'm going to be super earnest now" it's very hard not to go "awwww."

-Merc
Keep Rat

1I am aware that in the Abramsverse this is her actual name, yes. I trust people get my point anyways.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Characters you'd love to see in NF [View All] junipermoderator Jan-30-14 TOP
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Vehrec Feb-02-14 1
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF DaPatman89 Feb-03-14 6
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Blackbird Feb-03-14 9
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-03-14 11
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF JeanneHedge Feb-02-14 2
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-03-14 5
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF JeanneHedge Feb-06-14 38
              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-06-14 41
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-03-14 12
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-03-14 13
              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF SpottedKitty Feb-03-14 15
              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-03-14 16
                  RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-03-14 17
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF JeanneHedge Feb-06-14 39
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF BobSchroeck Feb-03-14 3
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF mdg1 Feb-03-14 4
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF DaPatman89 Feb-03-14 7
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Narutaki Feb-03-14 8
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-03-14 10
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-03-14 14
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-03-14 18
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Bodhi Feb-03-14 19
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-03-14 20
              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Pasha Feb-03-14 21
                  RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Senji Feb-04-14 26
              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-03-14 22
                 RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-04-14 23
                      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-04-14 24
                          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF BobSchroeck Feb-04-14 25
                          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-05-14 33
              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Peter Eng Feb-04-14 29
                  RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-04-14 31
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF junipermoderator Feb-04-14 32
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-10-14 46
              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-10-14 47
                  RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF BobSchroeck Feb-10-14 48
                      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Verbena Feb-12-14 54
                  RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF ebony14 Feb-12-14 51
                      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Gryphonadmin Feb-12-14 52
                          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF ebony14 Feb-12-14 53
                              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF mdg1 Feb-12-14 55
                                  RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF ebony14 Feb-12-14 56
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mephronmoderator Feb-04-14 27
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF mdg1 Feb-04-14 28
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF jonathanlennox Feb-04-14 30
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF The Traitor Feb-05-14 34
              RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF SpottedKitty Feb-05-14 35
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF JeanneHedge Feb-06-14 42
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF trboturtle2 Feb-06-14 36
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF junipermoderator Feb-06-14 37
      RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF JeanneHedge Feb-06-14 40
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF trboturtle2 Feb-06-14 43
          RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Mercutio Feb-06-14 44
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Proginoskes Feb-09-14 45
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF McFortner Feb-10-14 49
   RE: Characters you'd love to see in NF Verbena Feb-10-14 50


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