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Subject: "Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Vorticity
Member since Feb-6-12
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Apr-03-16, 03:30 AM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective"
In response to message #6
 
   > I just sort of have issues with "returns to Heaven in power and glory
> to stand again as one of the most beloved and important members of the
> Heavenly Host. All that bad shit he did? Water under the bridge." It
> rubs me the wrong way, especially also in the context of "the people
> who think this is a bullshit way of proceeding are the real bad guys here."

You've been doing a lot of quoting of In Nomine (which I don't really know much about), but you seem to be lacking in understanding of basic Christian theology. This is about grace. Of course Lucifer doesn't deserve to go back to heaven. Under common Christian thought, none of us deserves admission. In the absence of God's grace, every last one of us deserves to go to Hell -- you, me, and even D.J. But he was forgiven with divine grace, and restored to his authority.

If you have a hard time accepting that as something the godhead would do, just ask yourself WWUD? What would (Usagi|Utena) do? They're very good at the forgiveness thing, and they're very powerful because of it. (Unless you're one of those "Moon Healing Escalation is brainwashing" truthers, in which case you're already lost to us.) That is the kind of person the Christian God is, as Paul would describe him.

If you were to look at the Apocalypse of Peter, Lucifer would almost certainly be saved, but I suppose I should stick to the canon. The Parable of the Prodigal Son certainly could apply in this situation -- the evil one who repents is truly to be held in high esteem. Either way, EPU presented a good story and a theologically viable one.

> (I have my reasons for an absence of a year and a half. They're not
> precisely good ones; it's a combination of me fucking up and then
> residual guilt over said fuckup. I may post in the introduction
> sub-forum; this isn't the proper venue.)
> ...
> I've been wanting to come back for months, but I felt like I needed to do
> something special. I know, of course, that you lot would have been perfectly
> happy if I'd simply wandered back in and been like "'sup guys, want to talk
> about X-Com?"
> But I felt obligated. For me, and the sort of person who tries to talk about
> art that I want to be.
> (That's not weird, right? Or pretentious?)

No, it's not weird. It's a little sad, really. You don't need to feel guilt. You don't need to deserve to come back, and especially so when you know you'll be welcomed. That's what grace and forgiveness are, and you don't need to feel bad about accepting it. I kind of feel bad about saying anything about this, but it really feels like it's related to your criticism of NXE above.

Thanks for the post, it was fun. Welcome back!

-- ∇×V


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective [View All] Mercutio Apr-01-16 TOP
   RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective drakensis Apr-02-16 1
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Verbena Apr-02-16 2
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-02-16 3
          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective pjmoyermoderator Apr-02-16 4
          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-02-16 5
              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-02-16 6
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective BZArchermoderator Apr-02-16 7
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-02-16 9
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective BZArchermoderator Apr-02-16 10
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-02-16 11
                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-02-16 12
                                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-02-16 13
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Proginoskes Apr-02-16 8
                 RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Vorticity Apr-03-16 14
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Nathan Apr-03-16 15
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Vorticity Apr-03-16 24
                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 25
                                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Vorticity Apr-05-16 39
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 16
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 17
                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 18
                                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 19
                                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 21
                                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 22
                                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 23
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective pjmoyermoderator Apr-03-16 20
                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Vorticity Apr-03-16 28
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Nathan Apr-03-16 29
   RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Peter Eng Apr-03-16 26
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 27
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 30
          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective SilenRevered Apr-04-16 31
              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective BZArchermoderator Apr-04-16 32
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective ebony14 Apr-04-16 33
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective dbrandon Apr-04-16 35
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Nova Floresca Apr-04-16 34
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective BZArchermoderator Apr-04-16 36
          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Peter Eng Apr-04-16 37
              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective StClair Apr-05-16 38
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-05-16 40
   RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective junipermoderator Jun-14-16 41
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Jun-14-16 42


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