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Subject: "Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences Neon Exodus Evangelion Topic #295
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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
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Apr-02-16, 12:11 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective"
In response to message #1
 
   >On the subject of redemption (and god, I may be opening a can of worms
>here) the objectives of punishment are surely:
>1. To bring the sinner to the point they sincerely say they regret
>their sin and will not repeat it
>2. To deter others from doing the same

There's also the matter of making restitution for your wrongs.

>Given that the Seraphim Council can literally see Lucifer's soul it
>seems likely that they can determine that point 1 is concluded.
>Lucifer has been punishing _himself_ for eons.

Oh, he's been punishing himself. Well! I'm sure that's of great comfort to the friends and loved ones of the people he and his goons slew in the war, and to the millions of people being harvested of their forces in Hell. When Lucifer was sitting on his infernal throne, surrounded by courtiers, crowning new Demon Princes, approving plans for violating and tormenting humanity, and being feted by the most vile beings in the cosmos. But it's okay, because while all that was happening he felt bad.

>On the second point, Lucifer spent eons in hell. He rose to the
>grandest power and position there and held it for all that time. And
>yet he is walking away and submitting himself to his enemies. A
>grander statement of _this shit ain't worth it_ is hard to conceive.

That is, indeed, a grand statement.

It's also a beginning, not an ending.

It might also be nice if he demonstrated some humility over what he'd done. And I don't mean like, five minutes of "mea culpas" in Antarctica either. I mean maybe not always acting like the smartest, most important person in the room, always ready with a quip or a one-liner or a reason why his plans, reasoning, and motivations are much better than the ones you have, usually accompanied by a put-down. Because the last time he thought he was smarter and better than everyone around him, he sort of founded Hell, so maybe don't be so full of yourself.

>Extending forgiveness and reinstatement under these conditions seems
>to have merit on three grounds:
>1. As a matter of practicality, it may lead to other demons seeking
>redemption for their sins.

I'm not sure if it counts as redemption if Demons are only considering it because they know they'll slot right back into a position of precisely equal power and authority in Heaven.

Also as a matter of practicality, it seems like that would be real demoralizing to the Angels who, you know, didn't decide to spend eons committing vast atrocities. Those guys work hard and get punished, sometimes severely, if they step out of line! They're often put into situations on Earth where they have to pick between "fail the tasks set by their Superiors" or "gain a bunch of Discord because that's what is required to see their missions through", and then no matter which one they pick they often get looked down for being either 1) failures, or 2) having betrayed their Celestial natures.

Those dudes seem like they'd resent the King of Hell being placed over them just because he decided he was sorry, and rightfully so.

>2. Putting Lucifer back on the Seraphim Council is putting him back to
>work. He's not lazing on a cloud for eternity being adored, whatever
>some of the footsoldiers think being on the Council is like.

"Putting him back to work" is sort of understating it. It's a bit like making Bernie Madoff or Secretary of the Treasury or Benedict Arnold Secretary of War, as long as they're really, truly sorry for what they've done.

And it's like... no. Those jobs are hard, but they're also powerful and prestigious and carry with them staggering remuneration. It's the same way with being an Archangel. Lucifer gets a palace. He gets Servitors who have to leap and obey his every whim, the ability to hand out Words, the power and right to punish and reward, a large degree of authority even over those who aren't his direct underlings. That's not the same as "being put back to work."

Dude wants to come back? That's cool. He starts at the bottom. He starts as a Vassal, under Gabriel or someone. He can work his way back up to Archangel, a whole bunch of members of the Council did precisely that.

And if that's not good enough for him, maybe he isn't really all that sorry. Or not sorry enough to give up his powers and perquisites.

-Merc
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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective [View All] Mercutio Apr-01-16 TOP
   RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective drakensis Apr-02-16 1
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Verbena Apr-02-16 2
     RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-02-16 3
          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective pjmoyermoderator Apr-02-16 4
          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-02-16 5
              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-02-16 6
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective BZArchermoderator Apr-02-16 7
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-02-16 9
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective BZArchermoderator Apr-02-16 10
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-02-16 11
                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-02-16 12
                                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-02-16 13
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Proginoskes Apr-02-16 8
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Vorticity Apr-03-16 14
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Nathan Apr-03-16 15
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Vorticity Apr-03-16 24
                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 25
                                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Vorticity Apr-05-16 39
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 16
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 17
                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 18
                                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 19
                                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 21
                                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 22
                                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 23
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective pjmoyermoderator Apr-03-16 20
                              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Vorticity Apr-03-16 28
                          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Nathan Apr-03-16 29
   RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Peter Eng Apr-03-16 26
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Apr-03-16 27
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-03-16 30
          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective SilenRevered Apr-04-16 31
              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective BZArchermoderator Apr-04-16 32
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective ebony14 Apr-04-16 33
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective dbrandon Apr-04-16 35
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Nova Floresca Apr-04-16 34
                      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective BZArchermoderator Apr-04-16 36
          RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Peter Eng Apr-04-16 37
              RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective StClair Apr-05-16 38
                  RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Mercutio Apr-05-16 40
   RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective junipermoderator Jun-14-16 41
      RE: Apotheosis Now: Anniversary Retrospective Gryphonadmin Jun-14-16 42


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