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Subject: "(S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences Symphony of the Sword / The Order of the Rose Topic #435
Reading Topic #435
JeanneHedge
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May-30-14, 09:52 AM (EST)
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"(S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-30-14 AT 09:55 AM (EDT)
 
A nice piece, with many character developing vignettes, along with actually seeing some things hinted at or promised earlier (such as ice dodging). All in all, it gave me the feel of setting things up for a big payoff in the next part, promised to be S5M5 Taken by Storm. (I've been wildly wrong about things like that before - 11 years ago I thought S4's Interlude at Vortigern's Lake No. 2 in C (For Today) was going to be the end of the Symphony because of everything that went on in it and the way it ended.)

I want Minami's "little boat". A broom indicates "victory at sea"? I thought it indicated a series sweep. Well, they were ice dodging, and curling is on ice too, and they use brooms and sweeps there, so it's logical. Sort of. Korra's not denying she has a "new team", which has truly become "new family". Wondering what Utena's going to come up with for Korra's problem with Corwin tho. Wonder if Corwin's really taken on board what Nall told him about him (Nall) being around humans too much, wrt Garnet's upbringing. I was half-expecting Emily to show up at the celebration, but we got a new cub-photographer instead. And Nyima maybe got a boyfriend! What are the implications when a straight-on bear shows up? And finally, that was probably the wildest rose duel seen yet.

Oh, and who won the season opener?

Jeanne
Tianxia's 1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
"Never give up, never surrender!"


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
(S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments [View All] JeanneHedge May-30-14 TOP
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Mercutio May-30-14 1
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments JeanneHedge May-30-14 3
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 2
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments JeanneHedge May-30-14 4
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 5
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments JeanneHedge May-30-14 6
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Offsides May-30-14 9
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Polychrome May-30-14 7
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 8
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Polychrome May-30-14 10
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 11
                 RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Polychrome May-30-14 12
                     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Terminus Est May-30-14 13
                         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 14
                             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Bushido May-30-14 17
                                 RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Peter Eng May-31-14 21
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Matrix Dragon May-30-14 15
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 16
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Mercutio May-31-14 18
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-31-14 19
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments junipermoderator May-31-14 20
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments sideways Jun-02-14 22
                 RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-02-14 23
                     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments The Traitor Jun-02-14 24
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments DaPatman89 Jun-05-14 28
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Senji Jun-02-14 25
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-05-14 29
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Star Ranger4 Jun-05-14 26
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-05-14 27
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments TheOtherSean Jun-05-14 30
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-05-14 31
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments starless Jun-06-14 32
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-06-14 33
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments zojojojo Jun-06-14 34
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Droken Jun-07-14 35
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Blackbird Jun-07-14 36
                 RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-07-14 37
                     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Peter Eng Jun-07-14 38
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Offsides Jun-09-14 39
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Croaker Jun-09-14 40
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-09-14 41
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Croaker Jun-09-14 42
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments pjmoyermoderator Jun-09-14 43
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Mercutio Jun-13-14 44
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-13-14 45
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Verbena Jun-13-14 46
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-13-14 49
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Astynax Jun-14-14 52
                 RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-14-14 53
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments BobSchroeck Jun-13-14 48
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments BobSchroeck Jun-13-14 47
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Croaker Jun-13-14 50
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments The Traitor Jun-13-14 51

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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
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May-30-14, 11:39 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   > A broom indicates "victory at sea"? I
>thought it indicated a series sweep.

It means roughly the same thing (a clean sweep) in naval parlance, although often with more explosions. Lashing a broom to your mast (or periscope, in the case of a sub) means that you "swept the enemy from the seas," i.e had a completely successful mission.

-Merc
Keep Rat


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JeanneHedge
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May-30-14, 11:51 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #1
 
   >> A broom indicates "victory at sea"? I
>>thought it indicated a series sweep.
>
>It means roughly the same thing (a clean sweep) in naval parlance,
>although often with more explosions. Lashing a broom to your mast (or
>periscope, in the case of a sub) means that you "swept the enemy from
>the seas," i.e had a completely successful mission.

OK, yes, I do remember reading about that now. thank you.


Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for Tianxia
"Never give up, never surrender!"



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Gryphonadmin
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May-30-14, 11:47 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   >A broom indicates "victory at sea"? I
>thought it indicated a series sweep.

The premise is similar. The crews of submarines returning from successful patrols in WWII would lash a broom to the periscope shears when returning to base so everybody would know they'd "swept the seas".

>I was
>half-expecting Emily to show up at the celebration, but we got a new
>cub-photographer instead.

Emily's expense account does not extend to airfare to Nanisivik, etc. Particularly not now that she's not really working the society page any longer. More on this upcoming.

>What are the implications when a straight-on bear shows up?

The going theory at the moment is that the spirits, which tend to be just one kind of animal or another (by Dìqiú standards this makes them weird and exotic, but it also explains how people there know that a buzzard wasp is part buzzard and part wasp), are in some way the progenitors of the various "mundane" animals, which presumably represent some sort of collaborative effort. Under this hypothesis, boarcupines are the result of... some kind of encounter... between the boar spirit and the porcupine spirit. (Remember the thing that came up on another board a bit ago about why the ancient Romans called giraffes "camelopardalis"? :)

Nobody really wants to ask the spirits in question, as that would lead to the awkward question of exactly how that works, but that's the idea, anyway.

(As an aside, this is why the 52nd Earth King's pet bear, Bosco, was such a sensation. Apart from a few people in the South Pole who had caught a glimpse of Nanuq, and there weren't many of those hanging around the Earth King's court in the waning days of the Hundred-Year War, nobody had ever seen a bear before, and when they discovered that he wasn't even some kind of vanishingly rare spirit phenomenon - in those days spirits were very rarely seen in the physical world - he became an even greater enigma. Of course, in UF he was... just a bear, who happened to wander through one of the natural gaps in the Veil from Zipang. But nobody knew that at the time either. :)

>And finally, that was probably the wildest rose duel seen yet.

Well, that's what happens when you have a celestial incarnation and... well, a celestial incarnation... who have very selective notions of restraint. :)

>Oh, and who won the season opener?

The minor-league "supporting bands" were all over the map, as usual, and the Fire Ferrets - despite what Korra and Utena considered some pretty dubious refereeing - defeated the Caldera City Catamanders two rounds to one.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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JeanneHedge
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May-30-14, 11:59 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #2
 
   >>I was
>>half-expecting Emily to show up at the celebration, but we got a new
>>cub-photographer instead.
>
>Emily's expense account does not extend to airfare to Nanisivik, etc.
>Particularly not now that she's not really working the society page
>any longer. More on this upcoming.

Good for her! Another thing to (hopefully) learn is how her "embedding" during the police raid went (or if it's even happened yet)

>>And finally, that was probably the wildest rose duel seen yet.
>
>Well, that's what happens when you have a celestial incarnation and...
>well, a celestial incarnation... who have very selective notions of
>restraint. :)

Utena really needs to find a shorter way to do the "kiss the sword" thing, though. Or even the heart sword thing. What if she needs to go to that level and Anthy's not around? (a chance for the bad guys win one, as all bad guys do sometimes (see Empire Strikes Back)) But they've probably thought of that already and have made "arrangements" accordingly.

>>Oh, and who won the season opener?
>
>The minor-league "supporting bands" were all over the map, as usual,
>and the Fire Ferrets - despite what Korra and Utena considered some
>pretty dubious refereeing - defeated the Caldera City Catamanders two
>rounds to one.

Always good for the "home team" to win the opener :)

Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for Tianxia
"Never give up, never surrender!"



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Gryphonadmin
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May-30-14, 01:13 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #4
 
   >Utena really needs to find a shorter way to do the "kiss the sword"
>thing, though. Or even the heart sword thing. What if she needs to go
>to that level and Anthy's not around?

In this instance, both the drawing of the Heart of the Rose and the Priestess's Blade Blessing were theatre as much as anything else - showin' off a bit for the crowd. Utena owns more than one sword for precisely that reason: so that if she needs to fight and Anthy isn't right there handy, she has other options. And while the Blade Blessing is a powerful spell, it's not Utena's only route to a "power-up", either. We've seen her tap into her full power without it before (in her duel with Akio in Knights III, most prominently).

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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JeanneHedge
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May-30-14, 01:48 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #5
 
   >And while the Blade
>Blessing is a powerful spell, it's not Utena's only route to a
>"power-up", either. We've seen her tap into her full power without it
>before (in her duel with Akio in Knights III, most
>prominently).

I'll have to re-read when I have more time. I was pretty sure Anthy did her thing during that fight (after the heart sword got reassembled, of course)

Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for Tianxia
"Never give up, never surrender!"



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Offsides
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1225 posts
May-30-14, 02:39 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #2
 
   >>A broom indicates "victory at sea"? I
>>thought it indicated a series sweep.
>
>The premise is similar. The crews of submarines returning from
>successful patrols in WWII would lash a broom to the periscope shears
>when returning to base so everybody would know they'd "swept the
>seas".

That's the most recent commonly known usage of it, but it's been used by naval vessels of all sorts for over ~350 years. It's also been used for racing vessels who've swept a series of regattas (or even just as prizes). I've gotten 2 trophy brooms, one from a sailing race at summer camp as a kid, and the other that I got after the 2004 World Series to torment my office-mate who was a Yankees fan :)

Back to the story, I really enjoyed it, other than the fact that I wasn't ready for it to end :) Looking forward to M5 or whatever comes next!

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


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Polychrome
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May-30-14, 02:19 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   My thoughts:

>"We get 40 or 50 strong rowers in that hull and we can go a-viking. Won't they be surprised up in Qurluqtuq?"

Remember: Pillage, THEN burn.

>the Mark of the Wise.

Of course.

>the Mark of the Brave.

Waaaait a second...

>the Mark of the Trusted,

Okay, good. You were paralleling the Hylian trinity there until the end, which is good because that would have made Corwin Ganon.

>a circle, roughly the size of an old Earth Kingdom yuan, crossed with a jaggedly bent line that called to mind a lightning bolt.

?
Tapping into the Speed Force are we?

> THURSDAY, APRIL 15
The most dreaded of all days, TAX DAY. Although probably not in Diqiu.

Polychrome

Probably think of some more stuff later.


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Gryphonadmin
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May-30-14, 02:36 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-30-14 AT 02:39 PM (EDT)
 
>Okay, good. You were paralleling the Hylian trinity there until the
>end, which is good because that would have made Corwin Ganon.

No idea what you're talking about, I'm afraid; it's a reshuffling of the marks awarded in the "rock dodging" scene (they didn't have any ice handy, you see) that featured in an episode of Avatar: The Last Airbender. Korra's implication that there are others available is my own addition to the mythology; we only see these same three in the ATLA episode, but nobody ever actually says those are the only possibilities.

>>a circle, roughly the size of an old Earth Kingdom yuan, crossed with a jaggedly bent line that called to mind a lightning bolt.
>
> ?

Not quite:

First seen back in Clarion Call, at the first attempt at Corwin and Utena's wedding, and again in Try, Try Again.

>Tapping into the Speed Force are we?

It's actually the reference icon in the Asgardian technical diagram standard for denoting "power output here", but don't tell Utena.

--G.
"What happens if this valve gets stuck?"
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Polychrome
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476 posts
May-30-14, 02:46 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #8
 
   >>Okay, good. You were paralleling the Hylian trinity there until the
>>end, which is good because that would have made Corwin Ganon.
>
>No idea what you're talking about, I'm afraid;

Okay, my knowledge of this is a bit sketchy, but the three main characters of the Legend of Zelda series, each have a triforce that they are associated with: The Triforce of Wisdom (Zelda), The Triforce of Courage (Link) and the Triforce of Power (Ganon). Somebody better versed in the series can probably expand on this a bit, but that's what jumped to mind when I was reading that part.

Polychrome


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Gryphonadmin
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May-30-14, 02:51 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #10
 
   >Okay, my knowledge of this is a bit sketchy, but the three main
>characters of the Legend of Zelda series

Ah. Well there's your problem. :)

(Stand down, Zelda fans, I'm not hating on your franchise, I've just never played them. Evangelism is not required.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Polychrome
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May-30-14, 02:58 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #11
 
   >>Okay, my knowledge of this is a bit sketchy, but the three main
>>characters of the Legend of Zelda series
>
>Ah. Well there's your problem. :)

Man, I just pick this shit up by osmosis. I haven't put serious time into a Zelda game since 1989.

Polychrome


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Terminus Est
Member since Nov-5-04
469 posts
May-30-14, 04:16 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #12
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-30-14 AT 04:18 PM (EDT)
 
I'm not up to date on much past the Nintendo 64 era, but that's pretty much it in a nutshell. To be fair though, it was a safe assumption to make that you were at least familiar with the canon, since... well, half a world is based on it.

And yes, this discussion's been had before - I was a participant, and if I remember correctly the instigator of said discussion. The other half of the world in question was Pirates of Dark Water if memory serves, and it was mostly Marty's brainchild. I think.

The question I took from this is a bit different. So, Utena has a bonafide goddess mark now, which... doesn't surprise me, since it was one of the Norns who drew hers to start with. The question: how long before she starts showing a permanent mark, if ever, and what form might that mark take? I know she's a minor goddess right now, but this being Utena, well... minority has never really been her thing, has it?

ETA: By permanent mark, I mean the minor, un-manifested variety. Kinda like Corwin's center-dotted circle expanding to the full configuration.


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Gryphonadmin
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May-30-14, 04:47 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #13
 
   >The question I took from this is a bit different. So, Utena has a
>bonafide goddess mark now, which... doesn't surprise me, since it was
>one of the Norns who drew hers to start with.

The funny part is that Utena herself has no idea that happened. She couldn't see it, after all, and (as yet) no one who did see it has mentioned it to her.

>The question: how long
>before she starts showing a permanent mark, if ever, and what form
>might that mark take?

Unknown at this time. Not all the gods have System Marks that are visible under ordinary circumstances. The dísir, for instance - the class of goddesses to which ascended mortal women like Gin Shepard belong - don't.

>ETA: By permanent mark, I mean the minor, un-manifested variety.
>Kinda like Corwin's center-dotted circle expanding to the full
>configuration.

Well, if she had a proper System Mark, the form shown would probably be its "default" form; the more elaborate version is something Gods and Goddesses First Class manifest when their limiters are off, which happens very rarely, and although what Utena did at the end of her Rose Duel with Korra was impressive, it was nothing like what a First Class Unlimited can do. That's more "shattered continents sink into a boiling sea while the planet falls toward the Sun" territory. Which is why they don't take their limiters off in Midgard. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Bushido
Member since Apr-8-10
355 posts
May-30-14, 10:06 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #14
 
   >Well, if she had a proper System Mark, the form shown would probably
>be its "default" form; the more elaborate version is something Gods
>and Goddesses First Class manifest when their limiters are off, which
>happens very rarely, and although what Utena did at the end of her
>Rose Duel with Korra was impressive, it was nothing like what a First
>Class Unlimited can do. That's more "shattered continents sink into a
>boiling sea while the planet falls toward the Sun" territory. Which
>is why they don't take their limiters off in Midgard. :)
>
>--G.

or, you know, support the whole of creation, solely on the strength of her Will, while the World Engine is being rebuilt.

--------
Wedge Defense Force General
Order 12: "Try to avoid
freaking the mundanes."


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Peter Eng
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May-31-14, 07:28 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #17
 
   >>That's more "shattered continents sink into a
>>boiling sea while the planet falls toward the Sun" territory. Which
>>is why they don't take their limiters off in Midgard. :)
>>
>>--G.
>
>or, you know, support the whole of creation, solely on the strength of
>her Will, while the World Engine is being rebuilt.

This is one of the differences between Asgard and Midgard. Asgard is built to take that kind of focus without incidental shattering of mountains, evaporation of oceans, and division of continental plates.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Matrix Dragon
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May-30-14, 05:39 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   I wish I had the spare time for a detailed review. Sadly, I don't, so I'll just note that the post-credit scene is now one of my favourite moments in UF. I'm a bit of a sucker for Korra and her Gran-Gran.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Gryphonadmin
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16. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #15
 
   >I wish I had the spare time for a detailed review. Sadly, I don't

Aw! Well, never say never...

>I'll just note that the post-credit scene is now one of my favourite
>moments in UF. I'm a bit of a sucker for Korra and her Gran-Gran.

I'm fond of that scene too, not only for what it contains but for what it suggests. The canoe, for instance, implies that one of the ways of reaching Dìqiú's Spirit World from Valhalla if you know what you're doing is by crossing the Sea of Ghosts, which I think is a really nice image, and perfectly in keeping with Katara's roots.

--G.
If you don't know what you're doing, the unagi probably eats you.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
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18. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #15
 
   >I wish I had the spare time for a detailed review.

I'll just note that I got to Tyrants If They Could a full three months after it was released, and not only was our host quite gracious about it, it led to some productive development work on Desolation Angel.

So, I mean, take your time. I would love it if someone else around here were a great big internet loudmouth. (I keep hoping Traitor steps up, because she is awesome and knows her way around le mot juste.)

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Gryphonadmin
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19. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #18
 
   >>I wish I had the spare time for a detailed review.
>
>I'll just note that I got to Tyrants If They Could a full
>three months after it was released, and not only was our host
>quite gracious about it, it led to some productive development work on
>Desolation Angel.

... although one does, admittedly, rather hope that particular example is something of an outlier. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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junipermoderator
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May-31-14, 03:52 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #18
 
   >>I wish I had the spare time for a detailed review.
>
>I'll just note that I got to Tyrants If They Could a full
>three months after it was released, and not only was our host
>quite gracious about it, it led to some productive development work on
>Desolation Angel.
>
>So, I mean, take your time. I would love it if someone else around
>here were a great big internet loudmouth. (I keep hoping Traitor steps
>up, because she is awesome and knows her way around le mot
>juste
.)

And, for what it's worth, the writers (and assistant writers) really do appreciate reading what y'all have to say about these things. It helps keep the creative juices going, knowing there's an audience out there that gives a damn about what's going on. :)


Juniper
Rampaging Karateka Crypto-Kwavu'b Contributing Editor (and Moderator)
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
Because why be ordinary in your choice of hobbies?


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sideways
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Jun-02-14, 01:08 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #20
 
   I would like to step forward and represent a community of reticents who, despite having little to say and less facility with which to say it, still give several damns. Apiece.

That said, I do love Mr. Zhi's octant. It's like a sextant, only more so!


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Gryphonadmin
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23. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #22
 
   >That said, I do love Mr. Zhi's octant. It's like a sextant, only more
>so!

There was kind of a navigational-instrument arms race for a while there in the eighteenth century: first there was the quadrant, then the sextant, then the octant.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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The Traitor
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24. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #23
 
   The French attempt, the plumedematant, was rather less successful.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

I'm appreciated! <3


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DaPatman89
Member since May-2-12
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Jun-05-14, 03:55 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #20
 
   I just never really have anything to add to what's already been said, and don't feel having the entire contents of a post being "I like it" is sufficient. Though having said that...

>This turned out to be Korra's hair, specifically her ponytail.
>It moved whenever she did, swinging a concordant angle as she turned her
>head to look from one side of the drawing she was reviewing to the
>other. Now that he'd turned to take direct note of it, Corwin found
>himself oddly fascinated by the physics involved - the interaction of
>gravity, mass, and inertia, the way thousands of individual strands
>could and did function as a single body.

To be fair to Corwin, the physics of ponytails are very interesting, to the point that a paper about it won the 2012 Ig Nobel Prize in Physics.

---

"Things in life aren't always quite what they seem,
There's more than one given angle to any one given scene.
So bear that in mind next time you try to intervene
On any one given angle on any one given scene."
Angles - dan le sac vs. Scroobius Pip


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Senji
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Jun-02-14, 07:55 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   >A nice piece, with many character developing vignettes

And Gryphon's talent for taking a character I have no clue about and making them into a real person I can care about.

S.


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Gryphonadmin
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29. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #25
 
   >>A nice piece, with many character developing vignettes
>
>And Gryphon's talent for taking a character I have no clue about and
>making them into a real person I can care about.

Out of curiosity, which one?

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
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26. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   > "I thought you said you were planning to -relax- here," said
>Corwin's mother Skuld with a laugh as she hugged her only son.

For corwin, this IS relaxing, really. DesignDesk so he doesnt have to reveal tech Diqu doesnt have yet; Futon for those 30 minute breaks every 2-3 hours, really reminds me of when he was working on the world engine for Cepherio. Granted, the house is probobly less complicated than the engine, but hey, its CORWIN. He generates this stuff the way a stray unfixed feline generates kittens!

> "Don't look at me," said Gryphon when Corwin did exactly that.
>"I've known better than to try and slow these two down since the day you
>were born. Literally."

Quoted for truth, and just the sheer hilarty of the whole bit. Could be even more hilarious later in Future Imperfect or "new era" when he's come into his own enough to riff right back at her.

> Skuld looked back at Annabelle's face, shaking her head in
>amazement. "Inconceivable," she muttered.

Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

> "Well, obviously not," said Gryphon, causing Korra to snort
>involuntarily, Corwin to cough awkwardly, Anthy to giggle, and Utena to
>stifle a bark of laughter that probably would have startled the baby,
>then shoot him a reproachful smile.

I dunno if I should be sad or glad that you didn't have UF-G go for the Inigo riff; after all she only used it once and Inigo didnt do it to Vinnie till what... the 4th or 5th time? Just before Westly beats him in the duel in the forest?

> "The pun or the procreation?" wondered Anthy innocently.
> "Both," Gryphon replied promptly, drawing another round of
>similar reactions.

Or maybe not so innocently. :p I can totally see Anthy giving UF-G a straight line like that. And a pun is the shortest distance between 2 straight lines, after all. And I should know, my whole family is punny that way. Except for my stepdad. He'd usually just turn down his hearing aid so he could ignore us once we got going.

>"Oh, please don't say that where Minmin can hear you," he begged.
>"She'll insist on submitting a bid as a matter of form and guess who'll
>have to write it."

Church Lady: COuld it be.... Sata.... err... Ryo?

>"She's a little bit crazy."
> "A little bit?" Corwin wondered,

Ah, but its a good crazy, the kind that takes after her... fudge. Are these Asami's kids or grandkids? I've kind of forgotten at the moment.

> Anthy smiled. "Well, for them, I'm sure he'll be happy to go -
>despite how much he loves the Turing Board," she added dryly.

Anthy's true mystic power? getting her tounge that far in her cheek without biting it off at the root!

> Grown-ups are so weird, she thought as she slipped quietly back
>out of the house and took herself off to bed.

Jeremy Irons: You have NO idea.

> Of course, there was -one- important difference; back in the WPI
>and DSM days, her afternoon workouts with Kate had not involved the
>occasional presence of a gleeful infant and a slightly fretful dragon,
>one lashed to her back and the other anchored watchfully on her
>shoulder. That was a bit weird, but at the same time oddly gratifying.

Makes sense, really. Both Korra and Nyima are masters, and would be skilled enough that Annabelle wouldnt be in any real danger; and its not like bad guys to give you a chance to hand off your daughter before attacking. And while Nall loved to hang with Utena; I'm certain that he'd have found riding her shoulder while she spared far to energetic. he is a CAT dragon, after all.

>It's... calming." He shook his head. "I just
>can't say anything here that doesn't sound like a euphemism, can I."
> "Not really," Corwin agreed.

*SNERK* Ahem, excuse my not so dirty mind here, but I was actually assuming that her spending time with Nall *WAS* more like meditation and talking things out with a peer, etc... granted, Lhakpa isn't exactly a true PEER, but I have a feeling she kinda gets where Nall is coming from a lot more because of her own issues.

I think I read way to much into the fact that this sceen happened on April 1st, though.

> "(Hmm, good point. I guess we'd better skip that for right now.
>I wouldn't mind so much,)" she added with a mischievous grin, "(but Ryo
>might be embarrassed... )"

Poor Corwin. Even from his wives he gets no respect! And be glad Anthy wasn't there, she probobly would have come up with something even more wickedly teasing.

> "It is a great honor to have you traveling with us, Avatar!" Lt.
>Zhi barked stiffly before anyone else had a chance to speak.

Heh. A continuation of stick up the... backsides officers tradition that runs all the way back to the first appearance of the HoSghaj.

> Zhi continued to look confused for a second or so longer, then
>finished parsing the request and smiled, suddenly looking much more
>human than he had when shouting rigidly formal greetings to the Avatar
>on the bridge.

And continues with showing their... well, I suppose calling it "human side" might be considered an Insult by Zargh Thalekh, but...

As a complete and total non sequitur; I could totally see two Klingon warriors challenging each other to prove who was tougher by seeing who could down the most jalapenoes without having to take a drink during Taco Night.

> So she kept herself away from it, unconsciously editing herself:
>substituting a series of small, easily overlooked awkwardnesses for one
>big, unmissable one.

Rut Rhoh, Shaggy. What do you want to bet that...

>Anthy was peculiarly well-equipped
>to detect such small awkwardnesses where others might miss them. The
>realization came to her gradually, but plainly, and by the time they
>stopped for fuel at Kyoshi Island, she had begun seriously to consider
>what she might do about it.

yup. Healer Anthy is on the case.

> "Oh, hang on, I see what you're getting at," she mused to Anthy.
>"Hmm." Then, with a shrug, she added casually, "Welp; knew this was
>comin'."
> Anthy blinked, surprised by the matter-of-fact tenor of her
>husband's response. "You did?"

Well, I suppose Anthy's surprize at this could have been because she didnt have to draw Utena a picture this time; as Utena notes in the next few paragraphs she HAS been right where Korra is now.

> "Ahh, don't worry, he knows," said Karana with a grin. "He's
>just a big wimp about being cold."

The stereotype here is that most people would associate that sort of sentiment with a Firebender or someone from the Fire Nation. I know I was confused for a moment when I recalled Azana was the team's firebender.

> From ice-out in the spring until the freeze in late fall,
>fishermen and -women - most of whom kept their main homes in Senna -
>worked the waters of both fjords, as well as the coastal waters beyond
>Qurluqtuq, from boats based out of the piers of Pangniqtuuq

IOW, Deadliest Catch Diaqu style, Eh?

>"Now that is a boat." He turned to Korra with a
>roguish twinkle in his eye. "I should make a couple of calls." Gauging
>the size of the vessel with a practiced eye, he went on, "We get 40 or
>50 strong rowers in that hull and we can go a-viking.

Heh. Love seeing Corwins heritage peek through, though I doubt the poor fishermen who work the area would see it as that funny.

>"Vicious little bastards. They'll take your leg off all the way up to
>your neck."

Yipe. and I bet that if/when they learn fishing boats have nets full of fish it just makes the catching that much more... Interesting.

>What you
>three have to do, without any input from me, is get this boat," (she
>tapped the gunwale with a palm) "through that channel," (indicating the
>ice-choked passage) "and out to the open sea without sinking her."

And while the Trinity arn't waterbenders, would using bending be considered cheating? meh. Bellasarius' law prolly applies here.

> _Deadliest Catch: Music from the Series_ (2006)

Heh. Seeing this music cue just EMPHAsises my Quip about DC Daiqu!

> They arrived back at Pangniqtuuq half an hour later with a
>broom, the traditional symbol of victory at sea, lashed to the top of
>the mast.

Actually, it means a clean sweep of all tasks... but now I'm getting excessivly pendantic, arnt I? *wince*

>then, not entirely
>convincingly, she sobbed, "-Hold- me,"

apparently dragons learn win levels of snark during the dreaming as well as language!

> "How hard can mmmrph," said Garnet, and then, when he released
>her snout from between thumb and forefinger, "Can you not do that?"
> "Only if you stop making it necessary," Corwin replied mildly.

But not about tempting fate. Some things one really can only learn through experience after all.

>Corwin's "well, -I- don't know" face

Also known as the "lost in Cleavland" face in my minds eye.

> ... when, with a slightly wicked little smile, Anthy caught her
>eye. With a quick, hard-to-follow movement of her right hand, the
>Cephirean Priestess was suddenly holding two roses, one white, the other
>an almost-iridescent pale blue.

YES! Its been way too long since we've gotten to see one of these in text! and, I for one, somehow find it totally fitting that this winds up being part of Utena and Anthy's plan for inducting Korra into the circle of the "Grave Corwin Conspiracy", (not to be confused with the "Grave Gryphon Conspiracy!")

>On the ground midway between them,
>the pale blue rose that had been on Korra's chest lay scattered like a
>bomb burst, its denuded central bud smoldering gently.
> Utena's was still right where Anthy had pinned it.

The Winner and still champ-een.... Utena TENJO!!!!

> special guest star
> Katara of the Southern Water Tribe

And once again, Corwin shows just how he manages to be so darn luuuurrvable. *thumbs up*


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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27. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #26
 
   >> "The pun or the procreation?" wondered Anthy innocently.
>> "Both," Gryphon replied promptly, drawing another round of
>>similar reactions.
>
>Or maybe not so innocently. :p

Well, yes, her intent was entirely non-innocent, but her delivery was almost perfect. :)

>Ah, but its a good crazy, the kind that takes after her... fudge. Are
>these Asami's kids or grandkids? I've kind of forgotten at the
>moment.

Minami and Ryo are Asami's great-great-grandchildren. Here's a handy guide to the entire Sato dynasty to date.

>*SNERK* Ahem, excuse my not so dirty mind here, but I was actually
>assuming that her spending time with Nall *WAS* more like meditation
>and talking things out with a peer, etc...

In fairness, it mostly has been. Just... not always. :)

>> "(Hmm, good point. I guess we'd better skip that for right now.
>>I wouldn't mind so much,)" she added with a mischievous grin, "(but Ryo
>>might be embarrassed... )"
>
>Poor Corwin. Even from his wives he gets no respect! And be glad
>Anthy wasn't there, she probobly would have come up with something
>even more wickedly teasing.

Anthy would, in fact, have reached over and turned the video feed on, so as to cause precisely the event Corwin warned her about.

>> "It is a great honor to have you traveling with us, Avatar!" Lt.
>>Zhi barked stiffly before anyone else had a chance to speak.
>
>Heh. A continuation of stick up the... backsides officers tradition
>that runs all the way back to the first appearance of the HoSghaj.

Heh, sort of. Lt. Zhi has a bit less of that Sam-the-Eagle "indignant disapproval" thing going on compared to Zargh. He doesn't have much of a sense of humor himself, but he doesn't necessarily resent it in other people. He's annoyed at Yumi in that scene because she laughed at him, whereas Zargh gets annoyed when people laugh at anything. :)

>> "Oh, hang on, I see what you're getting at," she mused to Anthy.
>>"Hmm." Then, with a shrug, she added casually, "Welp; knew this was
>>comin'."
>> Anthy blinked, surprised by the matter-of-fact tenor of her
>>husband's response. "You did?"
>
>Well, I suppose Anthy's surprize at this could have been because she
>didnt have to draw Utena a picture this time; as Utena notes in the
>next few paragraphs she HAS been right where Korra is now.

Yeah, Anthy's not surprised that Utena saw what she was getting at; just that she was apparently expecting it already.

>> "Ahh, don't worry, he knows," said Karana with a grin. "He's
>>just a big wimp about being cold."
>
>The stereotype here is that most people would associate that sort of
>sentiment with a Firebender or someone from the Fire Nation. I know I
>was confused for a moment when I recalled Azana was the team's
>firebender.

Heh, yeah, and Azana doesn't actually mind the cold - she's a firebender, she can always warm up. Xiang Wan, on the other hand, is from Gaoling, Toph Beifong's old hometown. It's near the equator and rarely even gets cool weather, let alone cold.

>> From ice-out in the spring until the freeze in late fall,
>>fishermen and -women - most of whom kept their main homes in Senna -
>>worked the waters of both fjords, as well as the coastal waters beyond
>>Qurluqtuq, from boats based out of the piers of Pangniqtuuq
>
>IOW, Deadliest Catch Diaqu style, Eh?

Kind of, but not on a commercial scale. And they're fishing for fish, not crab, so the equipment is all different. So not really. :)

>Yipe. and I bet that if/when they learn fishing boats have nets full
>of fish it just makes the catching that much more... Interesting.

Luckily, they're smart enough to stay out of the nets themselves. Sorting your catch would be a real hassle if there was an ottershark or two in there.

>And while the Trinity arn't waterbenders, would using bending be
>considered cheating? meh. Bellasarius' law prolly applies here.

I'm not sure about that. The one ice dodging scene that's presented in canon does feature some bending stunts, but IIRC, they only happen after the person proctoring the test has already declared that they've done enough and can knock off for the day, so they wouldn't have affected the scores, as it were.

>>Corwin's "well, -I- don't know" face
>
>Also known as the "lost in Cleavland" face in my minds eye.

That's the face Corwin has when he's actually lost in Cleveland, as opposed to Lost In Cleveland. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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TheOtherSean
Member since Jul-7-08
239 posts
Jun-05-14, 11:15 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   I enjoyed it. Can I have more, please? :)

--
The Other Sean - Don't accept substitutes!
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-05-14, 11:47 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #30
 
   >I enjoyed it. Can I have more, please? :)

I sure hope so...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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starless
Member since Mar-8-10
51 posts
Jun-06-14, 05:24 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   I honestly feel like a bit of a prat saying this, but honestly I can't make heads or tails of any of this.

But I haven't seen more than, like, an episode of Avatar. Ever. And it was the first series. So basically all the names bounce off my ancient and weathered old person's skull and I basically end up going "I have no idea what any of this means." I mean, on one hand, what Mr. H tries to do here is to integrate these sorts of things into a pick-up-and-play paradigm, but it just feels like there's way more required reading on the Diqiu material than basically any previously integrated source material. I dunno. I'm not turned off by it, but my reaction is basically going to be "it's alright?" about this entire miniseries.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-06-14, 05:54 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #32
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-14 AT 05:54 PM (EDT)
 
>I mean, on one hand, what Mr. H tries
>to do here is to integrate these sorts of things into a
>pick-up-and-play paradigm, but it just feels like there's way more
>required reading on the Diqiu material than basically any previously
>integrated source material.

Hmm. Well, maybe so. On the other hand, the canonical events happened a very long time ago in relation to the events of the Dìqiú Suite, and most of the characters in the latter are new, so not recognizing the names is not necessarily a source problem. Beyond that, I'm not sure I agree that complete familiarity with the source material is required, if only because I don't have that either; I did the television equivalent of skimming about 67% of The Legend of Korra Book 2, because it had made an enemy of me by round about the fifth episode. At this point Korra's as prominent as she is in UF despite her origins rather than because of them, which is, perhaps, some indication of her general awesomeness, that she's so thoroughly established herself in my creative consciousness despite coming from a show that makes me want to punch someone. :)

Anyway, as you note, the intent is generally to set things up so that familiarity with the sources adds to the experience rather than unfamiliarity detracting; but I'm willing to accept the possibility that I've fucked it up this time. That is, alas, life sometimes. :(

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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zojojojo
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Jun-06-14, 08:14 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #33
 
   >>I mean, on one hand, what Mr. H tries
>>to do here is to integrate these sorts of things into a
>>pick-up-and-play paradigm, but it just feels like there's way more
>>required reading on the Diqiu material than basically any previously
>>integrated source material.
>
>Anyway, as you note, the intent is generally to set things up so that
>familiarity with the sources adds to the experience rather than
>unfamiliarity detracting; but I'm willing to accept the possibility
>that I've fucked it up this time. That is, alas, life sometimes. :(


As a counterpoint, I have only a passing knowledge that something about a last airbender exists as a cartoon-slash-comic (which is more than I knew about Utena, but less than I knew about the various space opera sources) and am enjoying it thoroughly. Sure, sometimes I wonder if $character is original or from the source, but in the end I find it doesn't matter and I can infer any necessary backstory as needed.

-Z


---
Remember kids: guns make you stupid, duct tape makes you smart.


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Droken
Member since May-6-08
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Jun-07-14, 00:01 AM (EST)
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35. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #34
 
   Agreed. As always it's worth recognizing that not everyone will have the same reaction to such a significant integration of something into UF that they have no knowledge of, but personally I've greatly enjoyed the entirety of the Diqiu-related adds, and I've seen less than 3 episodes of ATLA.

In some ways the Diqiu Suite in particular feels to me much like the later parts of the first and early parts of the second Symphonies, in that it's a great deal of character-driven, almost-universally good and awesome down-time for everyone, with a massive influx of new and interesting characters. And yet, at least for we the viewers, there's just the teeniest, tiniest reminder back in Honeymoon that the forces of the Black Rose are still at least lurking about. And with the Royal Progress bit happening in the very recent past as well...

From my seat, it's been an excellent ride, and I don't personally think that you've messed up on this one Chief.

-Droken

"If at first you don't succeed, bull-
riding is not for you."


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Blackbird
Member since Jan-2-13
25 posts
Jun-07-14, 00:20 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #34
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-14 AT 00:22 AM (EDT)
 
Similarly, I have as minimal of knowledge of this source material, having seen maybe ten minutes of ATLA and an episode or two of TLoK, as I can reasonable expect to have, given my age, social group, and internet presence (I'm one of the younger members of this board, which is occasionally (often) intimidating.), and yet I'm following the new material fairly well.

And yet, similar to above, I can't help but be slightly (very slightly) put off, because the entire Symphony has suddenly veered off in a rather unexpected direction and continues to meander there, though it's been quite enjoyable, and reminiscent of earlier Symphonies. I don't know, it seems to be dragging, a bit? That's not to say I'm not entertained; there are plenty of wonderful moments, and great character development.

I do, however, greatly appreciate what the suite in general, and this movement in particular, have done for my appreciation of Anthy. Before the continuation of the Symphony last summer, something about her struck me as ... off, somehow. Not to the extent Akio implied in Sympathy for the Devil, but she somehow never clicked into place for me (I'm unfamiliar with the source material). And then, it was her interaction with UF-Gryphon et al. which finally sold her for me. Thank you.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-07-14, 01:16 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #36
 
   >(I'm one of the younger members of this board, which
>is occasionally (often) intimidating.)

Eh, I don't know if it's worth being intimidated. I mean, yeah, I'll technically be 41 in a couple of weeks, but psychologically I'm not sure I made it out of high school. :)

>I don't know, it seems to be dragging, a bit?

Well... hmm.

I see what you're saying, and it is a bit of a large digression, but on the other hand, that's kind of the risk one takes when developing what amounts to downtime for action-oriented characters. There was a similar sort of thing during Symphony No. 1 - in the studio, we used to joke darkly and fatalistically about the "entr'acte deathmarch" between the Fifth and Sixth Movements, as all the different threads of the First Symphony's plot branched and then came back together again, and each one had to be followed to its logical conclusion before we could get on with the larger story arc.

Since Try, Try Again, the Dìqiú Suite has developed organically into a similar sort of thing (albeit one concentrated on a single thread), and I've had my concerns that it mightn't be for everyone, source fluency or no. The forum community at large hasn't seen most of it, but there's been a bit of agonizing behind the scenes about just how far down the rabbit hole we really wanted to go with it.

But, on the other hand, this is what's happening in this important character group's lives right now, and it'll be necessary that we know it's happened later on... so, as with the various branches in the middle of S1, we have little choice but to follow where it leads until it comes back to the main road. So while I acknowledge that it's a diversion, I can only insist that it's an important one, and ask that those who are finding it a bit tangential to bear with us a while longer. (I actually have a couple of looks at other corners of the Symphony "world" during the same timeframe in the works, which are also digressions in a way, but at least they'll be a change of pace, and, as with the middle of S1, it'll all come back together. :)

I'm pleased that you're finding it enjoyable even if you're a little puzzled about where it's heading, though. That's kind of the second-best outcome, when you've confused the readers but they're hanging in to see where you're headed anyway.

>I do, however, greatly appreciate what the suite in general, and this
>movement in particular, have done for my appreciation of Anthy. Before
>the continuation of the Symphony last summer, something about her
>struck me as ... off, somehow.

Heh, Anthy can be a tricky one to read, both in- and out-of-story, because she's very different from a lot of the characters around her, particularly right now. Many of the central cast members surrounding her are open books, real hearts-on-their-sleeves type (including Korra, even though she rarely wears sleeves), and Anthy... isn't. Her self-contained affect can make her seem a bit sinister by comparison to those around her, and her modern tendency toward an air of quiet mischief doesn't help. She seems like she's up to something, and she very often is up to something, but one can't tell what from the outside.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Peter Eng
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1555 posts
Jun-07-14, 03:41 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #37
 
   >Anthy...
> Her self-contained affect can make her seem a bit sinister by
>comparison to those around her, and her modern tendency toward an air
>of quiet mischief doesn't help. She seems like she's up to something,
>and she very often is up to something, but one can't tell
>what from the outside.
>

In my view, most of those "up to something" moments are about keeping the Trinity stable - something which will likely keep her busy most of the time, especially since she seems to be using the same playbook that a certain Grave Feminine Conspiracy uses.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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Offsides
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Jun-09-14, 12:30 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #33
 
   >Anyway, as you note, the intent is generally to set things up so that
>familiarity with the sources adds to the experience rather than
>unfamiliarity detracting; but I'm willing to accept the possibility
>that I've fucked it up this time. That is, alas, life sometimes. :(

For various reasons, my familiarity with most of the source material that UF is taken from ranges from minimal at best to absolutely nothing, yet other than occasionally confusing me when I encounter it later and find that my mental picture was completely wrong, it doesn't really matter to me. Perhaps knowing the source material can make it easier to understand and/or more enjoyable (e.g., I really like the various CSI characters in UF in part because of the comparison to their originals), but I've rarely failed to get something because of a lack of source background.

And that's one of the reasons I love UF - you may have taken characters from somewhere else to assemble things, but you've sufficiently made them your own that it doesn't matter. You give me enough of the picture that even if I'm missing minor nuances, it doesn't prevent me from seeing things in context, and you usually point out those nuances (either on camera or in the forums) if they're really important. In short, you do a good job of telling the story, and that's all I care about.

Just my $0.02.

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


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Croaker
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Jun-09-14, 06:20 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-09-14 AT 06:20 PM (EDT)
 
Not reading the actual thread yet because spoilers.

I just today got the time to sit down and read this, and just now started the sailboat scene, and damn.

Moderately experienced sailor here. I've been -out- in boats like that. We've owned several small and not-so-small sailboats in my life. And an open boat in arctic (okay, antarctic, still FORKING COLD) waters in 25+ knot winds? YIPE. We're talking "Why, yes, officer, I'd rather challenge a polar bear to a fistfight while armed with only a butter knife" conditions here. Add in an amateur crew? Even this particular trio?

*wince* doesn't even BEGIN to describe it.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-09-14, 07:16 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #40
 
   >I just today got the time to sit down and read this, and just now
>started the sailboat scene, and damn.
>
>*wince* doesn't even BEGIN to describe it.

Ice dodging is a very-well-calibrated way of measuring the brass content of balls, yes.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Croaker
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Jun-09-14, 10:20 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #41
 
   >>I just today got the time to sit down and read this, and just now
>>started the sailboat scene, and damn.
>>
>>*wince* doesn't even BEGIN to describe it.
>
>Ice dodging is a very-well-calibrated way of measuring the brass
>content of balls, yes.

That's one way to put it.

If they were anything less than -master- sail-handlers, or action-movie protagonists (the latter of which they are, fortunately for all involved), I would describe the entire concept as "actively suicidal, of the Darwin Award variety".

I know a lot of very experienced sailors who simply will not go out in otherwise-ideal conditions with 20-25 knot winds, because you're edging onto ranges where the wind is really outmuscling anything you can do in the way of sail-handling, especially on a small open hull. The boat is going to be extraordinarily hard to handle, and any crew is going to come home with bruises, muscle strains, hypothermia, frostbite, and generally in need of some serious TLC.

Brass balls? Sorry. Vibranium at the very least.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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pjmoyermoderator
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Jun-09-14, 11:36 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #42
 
   >>>I just today got the time to sit down and read this, and just now
>>>started the sailboat scene, and damn.
>>>
>>>*wince* doesn't even BEGIN to describe it.
>>
>>Ice dodging is a very-well-calibrated way of measuring the brass
>>content of balls, yes.
>
>That's one way to put it.
>
>If they were anything less than -master- sail-handlers, or
>action-movie protagonists (the latter of which they are, fortunately
>for all involved), I would describe the entire concept as "actively
>suicidal, of the Darwin Award variety".
>
>I know a lot of very experienced sailors who simply will not go
>out
in otherwise-ideal conditions with 20-25 knot winds, because
>you're edging onto ranges where the wind is really outmuscling
>anything you can do in the way of sail-handling, especially on a small
>open hull. The boat is going to be extraordinarily hard to
>handle, and any crew is going to come home with bruises, muscle
>strains, hypothermia, frostbite, and generally in need of some serious
>TLC.
>
>Brass balls? Sorry. Vibranium at the very least.

As a comparison, here is Sokka's own equivalent Ice Dodging experience, performed in what could be considered "acceptable" conditions (starting at 2:30):

http://nicktoons.nick.com/videos/clip/avatar-extras-bato-of-the-water-tribe-cart-c.html

(That is, a strong costal current, brisk winds, and very large pointy rocks).

Keep in mind that at the time, Sokka was 15, Katara 14, and Aang 12. And this was considered "late" for a Water Tribe warrior to undergo the ceremony.

Korra was intending to take Corwin Ice Dodging when he was around 13-14 himself, and would have scaled the experience accordingly. However, that didn't happen, so instead, when faced with a Corwin in the 18-19 year range, along with Utena and Anthy, she scaled the experience in the other direction.

(As an aside, bending is allowed for certain circumstances during the Ice Dodging ritual. If any of the crew under the command of the tested individual is a bender, then they are a resource to be used by the commander just as any other piece of nautical hardware.)

--- Philip







Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"
Fandoms -- Fanart


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Mercutio
Member since May-26-13
939 posts
Jun-13-14, 00:37 AM (EST)
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44. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-14 AT 00:42 AM (EDT)
 
I seem to only be able to get these two weeks after the fact nowadays. Hopefully, the rest of the summer goes much more smoothly.

>While they were about it, a team from Republic Telephone and
>Telegraph was on hand, along with a couple of technicians from Sato
>Computing Machines.

This is such a silly thing, but... I love that there's an RT&T. I don't know why. I kind of want to see one of their advertising posters now, done in that sort of 1950s IBM/GE/AT&T/etc. corporate aesthetic of "Aren't we all responsible, forward thinking technologists here!"

And of course the fact that "Sato Computing Machines" is an awesome name is already well-known to us all here.

>The senior man from SCM, a buzzcut, intense young man in
>an immaculate white shirt with sleeves that looked like they'd been
>rolled up with reference to a straightedge and then ironed that way,
>gave him a serious thumbs-up and nodded firmly.

Not pictured: socks with garters on them. Because some people? Have standards.

>"OK." Korra knocked on the jamb of the open living room door
>and leaned her head around it. "Everybody decent in here? I've got a
>couple of stragglers to see Herself and the Red Terror."

Herself and the Red Terror was, of course, also the title of one of the Crimson Lizard films Kaitlyn was in. It is not to be confused with She! The Earth Kingdom's Red Weapon!, one of Bolin's later Nuktuk serials during that period when they were trying to transition the franchise into a more sci-fi direction.

>Turning to Gryphon with an expression of wonderment, Skuld said
>as if surprised, "This is our granddaughter."
>
>Gryphon nodded. "Indisputably."
>
>"We have a -granddaughter,- you fool," Skuld insisted, as if he
>wasn't -getting- it.

Awww.

I'm curious... no Priss and Guy? I mean, yes, clearly they're not going to haul the entire entourage out to Diqiu for this; it would bloat an already long piece, wouldn't add much narratively, and in-universe Redneck and R-Type and the Roses and everyone can all wait until the Trinity aren't on their honeymoon and have arranged all their post-partum situations to be much more stable, but you'd think the immediate family would have been dragged in to see their adorable new niece and for Priss to get some really good mocking in. Especially since I think Priss and Guy are still living at home.

Also too: it no doubt occurred offscreen, but I am totally imagining Len (currently off moping-slash-becoming-a-Jedi) just completely not believing this when he asked Achika et al. over in Warriors for an update on his brother.

"Corwin? Got married a couple times, disseminated his genetic materiel. Your niece is pretty cute, by the way. Toddling adorably, like they do."

"... bullshit. You had me going, though."

>Much of this seemed to hinge on relinquishing the baby as seldom as possible
>and soliciting tips from Jinora and Ikki, who had had the experience numerous
>times and in multiple generations by this point.

"Can you divorce your spirit from your body and wander freely and unseen? Because I've found that made baby-sitting and, importantly, toddler-finding much, much easier."

"... yes! Yes, actually, I can."

"Well you're good to go, then."

>"You didn't save any work for me!" Ryo Sato observed, entering
>the room behind her. Then, to dispel any impression that he was
>complaining about that, he smiled and added, "Excellent."

Oh, Ryo. Never stop being asian Tony Stark.

Or maybe asian Howard Stark. Either one! Just never stop!

>"I know, but she's nervous. Having your sapience judged by a
>panel of surly experts will do that to a person," Skuld pointed out with
>a wry eyeroll - not at Anthy, but born of her long-nurtured disdain for
>the Turing Institute's system of synthetic-sapience classification.

Y'know, people mock the Turing Institute, but I kind of like them, both in-universe and as a plot device. If Dorothy's hearing and Eve's prelmins are representative of the process, it's staffed by sober, serious-minded people who realize they have a hard job to do, and that sometimes they have to dick over good people in order to conform to their charter, but they do the best they can, because undermining their own legitimacy would mean there'd be no international framework at all for synthetic emancipation, and that'd just be so much worse.

What I'm saying is that so far they've been written well, coming off as a complex bit of galactic diplomacy and an interesting obstacle/coming of age challenge for some of the synthetic members of the cast. I enjoy subtlety and complex, morally grey situation.

>"The question that my sister and brothers and I have used to shape the path of >the Air Commonwealth these many decades? It's a simple one." With a broad >smile, she said, "What would Aang do?"

Tangent: while not a bad star to steer your ship by, I'm more than willing to bet the whole 'Let's all be like Aang' thing has more than a little to do with Lhakpa's various issues.

>"For right now, just tell me this much, if you think it's fitting.
>If I visited... would I be disappointed?"
>
>Corwin regarded her thoughtfully for a second, then gave her a
>little smile and shook his head. "I don't think you would, no."

You know, this would make an interesting little mini-story, I think. Corwin might be a little bit wrong about Korra's level of disappointment. I mean, Korra would undoubtedly find the Golden City to indeed be all that, and I imagine that the various divine members of Corwin's family might have some enlightening conversations in store for her; Tyr and Heimdall seem like dudes who would have been keeping one eye on Diqiu and have some wise things to say to Korra. I find myself thinking that Odin's ravens would probably have a lot more to say to her than Odin herself regarding the Avatar's role in the grand scheme of things. All that would be awesome...

... and then she'd find out there's an actual Celestial Bureaucracy, and that in fact the universe is, indeed, controlled by functionaries at the very highest level. I anticipate that reaction would be way more mixed on her part. :)

>As he spoke, he unstrapped his Cirrus J-5 jetpack's control
>modules from his hands and slipped them into his side pockets, then
>tugged off the heavy gauntlets he'd worn underneath them.

Minami is going to be very disappointed that Corwin imported a jetpack for this trip. What, a Sato-branded jetpack isn't good enough for him? He thinks he's better than her?

>"We're still going to worry," he said.
>
>"I appreciate that," Nall replied.

I feel like I should have more to say about this scene specifically.

I mean, I have plenty to say about Corwin and Nall. I love how in some ways, Nall is actually entering the grown-up phase of his life faster than Corwin is. I love the weird cultural interplay between them, and I love how Nall is actually smarter than he thinks he is and is going to make an amazing diplomat or politician one day.

And this scene is clearly an important brick in that wall, but I don't really have much more to say about it than "Yep. That there's a good brick."

Hnn.

>Shiro Shinobi Arena was packed and roaring on the first day of the Major League
>Bending regular season

Same deal with this scene, really. Feel like I should have something to say
about it, especially after Corwin's bout in the ring, but don't really.

Oh, wait, no. I liked Hitomi a lot despite her being a walk-on role. Aside from being a fan of alliteration, I like that they've got a high-energy woman doing sportscasting. Not just doing sportscasting, but actually anchoring the broadcast. Admittedly, this might be because here in the real world, I am desperately, monstrously bored with the constant interchangeable middle-aged dudes of mediocre talent who alternate boring play-calling with shitty commentary lamenting the days of yesteryear when the sport was purer and cleaner.

(Seriously, Joe Buck can go fuck himself.)

So that was nice.

>He affected to disdain broadcast programming and used his personal set
>only to watch old action films, the world's most extensive collection of
>which he happened to own on Moverdisc.

Headcanon: Meelo and the Sato family have a longstanding competition as to who has the most extensive film collection. For awhile Ryo was winning, but then Meelo actually managed to dig up the disc version of Wang Fire In The Clutches of General Azun! which Varrick Studios printed but never actually released due to a contract dispute.

>As the Fire Ferrets' team principal, Korra had recused herself from commentary
>on the final bout, reporting instead to the stands to take it in with the
>others in the Satos' courtside box.

Hmm, are you holding that content back for another Azana-n-Karana mini? Because you'd think Azana taking the ring for the first time with her flashy new blue flame would be a big deal worthy of on-screen time, as it were.

>M/V MIRAI
>FUTURE CITY

MINOR SPOILERS


Given what we now know about Book 3, it would appear that having awesome goddamn ships as your ride runs in the Sato family.

(Not as cool as Asami's enormous airship fortress, tho.)

>Unlike many rich people, Minami did not generally employ a personal chef,

Y'know, I generally disapprove of a lot of the conspicuous displays of consumption the truly wealthy get up to (on aesthetic grounds if nothing else; shit's gaudy, yo, show some class) but I have to admit; if I had the money, I would totally have a personal chef.

>Now that he'd turned to take direct note of it, Corwin found
>himself oddly fascinated by the physics involved - the interaction of
>gravity, mass, and inertia, the way thousands of individual strands
>could and did function as a single body.

Tangent: this is a topic of great interest to both mathematicians and those who work in high-end computer animation. Disney in particular has invested a lot of effort into creating physics engines that can handle hair down the level of the individual strand and throwing a lot of computing power at the problem; this is most notable in Tangled and the more-recent Frozen.

It's apparently one of the most demanding problems in modern programming, how to make fake hair behave realistically.

>But another, larger, more insistent part of it was Korra's developing awareness
>- at this stage barely liminal - of Corwin not only as a bigger, stronger
>version of her buddy of old (though he still was that), but as a -man,- full
>stop.

Wait, what?

... this is where we're going with Korra and Corwin?

Mmmmmmmrrrr. Do not want.

>There was a growing cognitive dissonance there that she wasn't ready to
>think about "out loud" just yet; and even if she did, it would only be
>to deem it inappropriate on several levels.

Yes! Yes, it is, Korra. There are weird grooming implications involved given the fact that you helped raise the boy. It would be like if Gryphon were to decide to make a move on Raven, only even weirder.

>"Sure, bail out when it gets complicated," Utena joked.
>"There's that can-do dragon spirit."

I believe technically the can-do spirit calls for burnination when things get complicated. A smoking ruin is very simple!

>"I just have to give it some thought," Utena went on. "Some...
>diplomacy... may be in order," she added with a little grin and a wink.

... and now Utena and Anthy are collaborating on this one. Cripes.

>"Do you have a boat?" Utena wondered. "I'm assuming we can't
>use the ones we came in... "

I was actually really hoping they'd somehow manage to try it using the Mirai.

I don't have a lot to say about the sailing porn; I read this at a bad time for it, as I'm currently plowing through the most recent couple books of Weber's Safehold series (shut up, it's a guilty pleasure) and there's like a hundred and fifty pages of people fighting the ocean in each of them, so I'm a bit full up. It was competent and well-executed; I'm afraid my own knowledge of the practicalities of sailing ends with very dim memories of watching The Voyage of the Mimi in middle school.

>"Makes sense," said Utena. "Like you said this morning, this is
>a hard land. Before modern times, just living here must've been pretty
>precarious."
>
>Korra nodded. "Not even that long ago, in the grand scheme of
>things.

A younger Korra would have mentioned, without even thinking about it, the attempted genocide right then, about two seconds before realizing she'd just made the whole situation very awkward.

>A glance sufficed, between the Rose Prince and her wife, for the
>one to ask a silent question and the other to answer it: No, not yet.

Not ever, hopefully.

>"Ladies, I want you to meet another dear friend of mine. Utena Tenjou, Anthy
>Tenjou: This is Nanuq, the Great Bear of the South. He's the patron of my
>tribe and guardian of our ancient land."

Okay, that was pretty neat.

I like what you've been doing with the spirits overall so far in Diqiu. It's a lot more AtlA than LoK. That's a good thing; AtlA used a much lighter touch and it was more effective for it. I like my spirits mysterious and weird and cosmic.

>Kaitlyn-sensei was already there waiting for her, an Aldera 2408
>promotional backpack - part of the swag from Juri's brief but eventful
>career as an Olympic fencer - slung on one of her shoulders.

Y'know, what with Corwin getting hitched and all, I wonder if Juri and Kaitlyn are ever gonna get married. I go back and forth on it; Juri is such an intensely private person that it seems like she'd be deeply uncomfortable with the notion of even a small, intimate ceremony, and neither of them have anything to prove about their relationship to each other or to the rest of the world. On the other hand, there are probably a lot of legal benefits to that sort of formal relationship status, and if they continue to build a life together they may decide that alone makes it worth it; in addition to being intensely private, Juri is also intensely practical.

>Utena was intrigued to see the good people of Senna's reaction to such blatant
>draconic showoffery: they rushed -toward- the common, exclaiming excitedly,
>many of them scrambling for cameras.

Those pictures are gonna be all over tumblr in like half an hour, aren't they? I can see the hashtags now; #southpoledragon, #theyhavefeathers, #whoknew, #suckitfirenation, #yoursarejustbiglizards, #oursistotallyawesome.

>"I'm told that when I was around two, not long after she first met Dad, she
>more or less -hypnotized- me by doing an exercise in the dojo at our house
>with a jian he used to have. There's a reason they call it 'the gentleman of
>weapons'." She smiled.

Trivia: one of the longest and well-regarded Atla fanfics is, in fact, called The Gentleman of Weapons. Starring Piandao, because with a title like that of course it does.

As with just about every fight scene, I don't have a ton to say. I keep feeling like I'm letting down the side there, but usually when EPU has fights that are meant to simply be an awesome fight (Corwin probending, for example) as opposed to ones that are meant to be spiritually or emotionally significant in some way (just about every fight Azula had in Desolation Angel) it usually boils down to "well, the production team has been doing this for two decades, it's the part of writing they're most proficient at, I have nothing to add."

>"Hello, Korra," said Katara fondly, her own eyes none too dry, as she hugged >the Avatar tight. "Oh, it's good to see you."

Awww yeah. Getting our Katara on.

Hmm, I made it all the way to the end.

Looking back, I had far fewer technical notes to offer than I did during Desolation Angels run. I don't think that's a good or a bad thing in isolation, although it does make me a bit disappointed in myself; if it takes me two weeks to do a full review, I feel like I should have more to offer than snark.

That said, there weren't a lot of individual scenes here I felt needed it, so I'm addressing the piece in aggregate here at the end instead.

This was a decent movement, on its own, but the Suite as a whole is starting to drag just a bit. I'm hesitant at making this sort of pronouncement without the entire thing being out (I've been burned before) but while this installment wasn't bad, it was remarkably plot-free. It was a lot of scenes of the characters going places and interacting and being themselves, which is fine and all, but the previous movement was also just the characters going places and interacting and being themselves, as was the one before that.

There's nothing wrong with establishing a major new part of the setting... but I'd like to note that while that was happening in the earliest parts of the Symphony, which had all these new-at-the-time cast members and set pieces to get off the ground, there also tended to be a lot of plot movement as well; Utena kept accidentally hauling people into our universe, we'd periodically flash back to Cephiro for a plot update and to watch Anthy live the glamorous life of a fugitive witch, international politics would happen to people, etc.

So I'm rather hoping that now that we've gotten all the establishing stuff out of the way, Taken by Storm (a title, by the way, that is rife with potential interpretations) isn't going to be just 'honeymoon in Diqiu ends, people go home' but rather 'shit goes down, yo.'

-Merc
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Gryphonadmin
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45. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #44
 
   >I'm curious... no Priss and Guy?

Maybe they're on giant robot call that week.

>>"For right now, just tell me this much, if you think it's fitting.
>>If I visited... would I be disappointed?"
>>
>>Corwin regarded her thoughtfully for a second, then gave her a
>>little smile and shook his head. "I don't think you would, no."
>
>You know, this would make an interesting little mini-story, I think.
>Corwin might be a little bit wrong about Korra's level of
>disappointment. (snip)
>... and then she'd find out there's an actual Celestial Bureaucracy,
>and that in fact the universe is, indeed, controlled by functionaries
>at the very highest level. I anticipate that reaction would be way
>more mixed on her part. :)

All of which is fine? Except none of that is really what she's asking about, and Corwin knows that.

>>As he spoke, he unstrapped his Cirrus J-5 jetpack's control
>>modules from his hands and slipped them into his side pockets, then
>>tugged off the heavy gauntlets he'd worn underneath them.
>
>Minami is going to be very disappointed that Corwin imported a
>jetpack for this trip. What, a Sato-branded jetpack isn't good enough
>for him? He thinks he's better than her?

(shrug) Maybe he doesn't like single-engine jetpacks and Future Industries doesn't make twins.

>Oh, wait, no. I liked Hitomi a lot despite her being a walk-on role.
>Aside from being a fan of alliteration, I like that they've got a
>high-energy woman doing sportscasting. Not just doing sportscasting,
>but actually anchoring the broadcast.

Yes, that was deliberate, and for something like the same reason. I am conversely a bit bored with the way that, although there are a lot of women in sports broadcasting these days, they're mostly the on-the-field/in-the-stands segment reporter types - the ones who are actually on camera a lot, unlike the main commentary team - and are generally therefore selected mainly for telegenicity. (Which is not to say that Hitomi isn't telegenic, but she's not actually there to be eye candy.)

>Hmm, are you holding that content back for another Azana-n-Karana
>mini?

Not that I know of.

>Because you'd think Azana taking the ring for the first time
>with her flashy new blue flame would be a big deal worthy of on-screen
>time, as it were.

Azana's flame doesn't have to be blue. It's entirely possible that she's not using it in the ring, specifically because she doesn't need the tsuris.

>>There was a growing cognitive dissonance there that she wasn't ready to
>>think about "out loud" just yet; and even if she did, it would only be
>>to deem it inappropriate on several levels.
>
>Yes! Yes, it is, Korra. There are weird grooming implications involved
>given the fact that you helped raise the boy.

I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to work, given that they haven't seen each other in six years, but regardless, it is something like one of her concerns (or would be, if she'd actually thought about the matter in words, which she hasn't so far). However, at the same time, I think the situation is somewhat less straightforward than you're reading it to be. It has... a lot of levels, not all of them obvious at first look.

>It would be like if
>Gryphon were to decide to make a move on Raven, only even
>weirder
.

... Well, one significant difference I can think of off the top of my head is that Raven's not an adult. (As far as anyone knows. She doesn't really know how old she is, but as of 2410 she seems to be about sixteen.) Or a, you know, fully accredited Norse god. Also, there's the whole ninja-hell-commando master-apprentice thing, and that semitranscendent mystic bond thing that happened at the end of Blood Ties, and - yeah, actually, y'know what, not seeing the resemblance at all, actually.

>>"I just have to give it some thought," Utena went on. "Some...
>>diplomacy... may be in order," she added with a little grin and a wink.
>
>... and now Utena and Anthy are collaborating on this one. Cripes.

In fairness, they collaborate on more or less everything these days. It's kind of part of their deal. Plus:

>>A glance sufficed, between the Rose Prince and her wife, for the
>>one to ask a silent question and the other to answer it: No, not yet.
>
>Not ever, hopefully.

That rather depends on what it's not yet time for, which is not in evidence here. I mean, give Anthy and Utena credit for one thing, at least: However they address what they have observed, they'll want to do it carefully. It's a matter of some considerable delicacy, and it's got connections to a number of other things that all need to be taken into account. The last thing they want is to address one thing and break something else in the process - the entire structure has to be looked after.

For instance, they weren't present to hear Azana's observations to Anne in the noodlery scene in Prologue - "Kaitlyn's brother seems to unlock all that" - but they will have noticed something like it themselves; indeed, it's what Anthy noticed had started going away a bit in the first place. However they proceed, they'll want to put that back if they can.

For the record, what's going on here is so complex I haven't even completely shaken it down myself yet, but one thing I can say is that, if you're worried that U&A are looking for a quick and final resolution to the problem, uh, don't be. They are well aware that precipitate action (for all that it's kind of Utena's métier) would do a lot more harm than good, and the last thing they want is to do harm.

(Mind you, that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't indulge in a bit of gentle mischief now and then, once they've stabilized the situation... )

>Y'know, what with Corwin getting hitched and all, I wonder if Juri and
>Kaitlyn are ever gonna get married.

Well... ever is a long time. Juri is, as you note, not real comfortable with the concept generally, and Kaitlyn can take marriage or leave it. It's only a piece of paper to her. It's not as if they live in a society where if you're not married they won't let you jointly buy a house or check into a hotel or anything, nor are they likely to be concerned about legitimizing the children anytime soon. If other folks want to make the gesture for symbolic or spiritual or even legal (looking at you, Amanda and Devlin) reasons, that's great, she'll be in the front row, but her own life is in no way incomplete without it.

> when
>EPU has fights that are meant to simply be an awesome fight (Corwin
>probending, for example) as opposed to ones that are meant to be
>spiritually or emotionally significant in some way

For the record, I'm reasonably sure this one was supposed to be both.

>This was a decent movement, on its own, but the Suite as a
>whole is starting to drag just a bit.

I've addressed this elsewhere in this same thread, and don't feel like going over it again here, so in this spot I'll just point to that one and say: Yeah... so I've been told.

>I'm hesitant at making this sort
>of pronouncement without the entire thing being out (I've been burned
>before) but while this installment wasn't bad, it was remarkably
>plot-free.

Hmm. You think? 'Cause I thought there was quite a bit going on. I mean, it's called Familiar Spirits for a reason, and almost everything that happens here touches that theme in one way or another. Just to take three examples, the ice dodging scene is far more than "sailing porn", the Rose Duel was intended to mean a number of different things, and you may not have a good feeling about Anthy's "oh hey" moment and what Utena's reaction to it may mean, but that doesn't make it not plot.

Then there was Lhakpa-Nyima, we learned a few things about Karana and Azana, there's setup for what Anne's going to be up to once the school year's done... and that's the stuff that isn't meant to be hidden hooks for stuff you'll only realize was set up here later on. No, "starting to drag a bit," I'll take that one and roll with it as best I can, but I don't think I'm havin' "remarkably plot-free".

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Verbena
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46. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #45
 
  
>Azana's flame doesn't have to be blue. It's entirely possible
>that she's not using it in the ring, specifically because she doesn't
>need the tsuris.

I'd have loved to see the reaction from the crowd, but yeah, given how rare it is, that'd have caused...speculation.

>
>>>There was a growing cognitive dissonance there that she wasn't ready to
>>>think about "out loud" just yet; and even if she did, it would only be
>>>to deem it inappropriate on several levels.
>>
>>Yes! Yes, it is, Korra. There are weird grooming implications involved
>>given the fact that you helped raise the boy.

I thought I was the odd one out when I told myself this was a bad, bad idea.

>
>I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to work, given that they
>haven't seen each other in six years, but regardless, it is something
>like one of her concerns (or would be, if she'd actually thought about
>the matter in words, which she hasn't so far). However, at the
>same time, I think the situation is somewhat less straightforward than
>you're reading it to be. It has... a lot of levels, not all of them
>obvious at first look.

We'll see where this goes, but I will be blunt: so far it's got a squick factor. I'll explain more below.

>
>>It would be like if
>>Gryphon were to decide to make a move on Raven, only even
>>weirder
.
>
>... Well, one significant difference I can think of off the top of my
>head is that Raven's not an adult. (As far as anyone knows. She
>doesn't really know how old she is, but as of 2410 she seems to
>be about sixteen.) Or a, you know, fully accredited Norse god. Also,
>there's the whole ninja-hell-commando master-apprentice thing, and
>that semitranscendent mystic bond thing that happened at the end of
>Blood Ties, and - yeah, actually, y'know what, not seeing the
>resemblance at all, actually.

The age/maturity issue isn't it. Raven isn't quite ready for a relationship, sure, but that's entirely due to her upbringing, not her age. She needs social acclimatization first rather than maturity. And she's slowly improving.

What IS the issue is the master/apprentice, or in this case more of a parent/child relationship. Korra is not teaching Corwin, sure, and her age is not an issue, but she said it herself when she said she wasn't interested in Meelo because she changed his diapers. No matter how long they both live, there's always going to be a sense that she has moral authority over him. That sense will never go away and it means they can be friends, sure, but anything more comes across badly.

>
>>>"I just have to give it some thought," Utena went on. "Some...
>>>diplomacy... may be in order," she added with a little grin and a wink.
>>
>>... and now Utena and Anthy are collaborating on this one. Cripes.

There's no jealousy on the part of either one? At all?

>
>In fairness, they collaborate on more or less everything these days.
>It's kind of part of their deal. Plus:
>
>>>A glance sufficed, between the Rose Prince and her wife, for the
>>>one to ask a silent question and the other to answer it: No, not yet.
>>
>>Not ever, hopefully.
>
>That rather depends on what it's not yet time for, which is not
>in evidence here. I mean, give Anthy and Utena credit for one thing,

Gryphon, I respect you too much to pull punches here. What's in evidence, so far, is the beginnings of romance. If that's not what happens...well, good. But that's what it looks like and that's what's squicking me.

>at least: However they address what they have observed, they'll want
>to do it carefully. It's a matter of some considerable delicacy, and
>it's got connections to a number of other things that all need to be
>taken into account. The last thing they want is to address one thing
>and break something else in the process - the entire structure
>has to be looked after.

In other words, their marriage can't be hurt by bringing Korra into it. But Korra already was acting, not as a friend to Utena, but as a parent (when Utena was on the cliff crying), and that was a very well-done, logical, and appropriate scene. I've seen no indication that Korra likes Utena or Anthy that way (even though Korra -did- like Asami, so gender isn't a factor) and we already know Utena is basically straight with the sole exception of Anthy. Between that and the jealousy thing I mentioned above, I'm not at all sure why they would be for anything beyond friendship between Corwin and Korra.

>
>For instance, they weren't present to hear Azana's observations to
>Anne in the noodlery scene in Prologue - "Kaitlyn's brother
>seems to unlock all that" - but they will have noticed something like
>it themselves; indeed, it's what Anthy noticed had started going away
>a bit in the first place. However they proceed, they'll want to put
>that back if they can.
>
>For the record, what's going on here is so complex I haven't even
>completely shaken it down myself yet, but one thing I can say
>is that, if you're worried that U&A are looking for a quick and final
>resolution to the problem, uh, don't be. They are well aware that
>precipitate action (for all that it's kind of Utena's métier)
>would do a lot more harm than good, and the last thing they want is to
>do harm.
>
>(Mind you, that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't indulge in a
>bit of gentle mischief now and then, once they've stabilized the
>situation... )
>
>>Y'know, what with Corwin getting hitched and all, I wonder if Juri and
>>Kaitlyn are ever gonna get married.
>
>Well... ever is a long time. Juri is, as you note, not real
>comfortable with the concept generally, and Kaitlyn can take marriage
>or leave it. It's only a piece of paper to her. It's not as if they
>live in a society where if you're not married they won't let
>you jointly buy a house or check into a hotel or anything, nor are
>they likely to be concerned about legitimizing the children anytime
>soon. If other folks want to make the gesture for symbolic or
>spiritual or even legal (looking at you, Amanda and Devlin) reasons,
>that's great, she'll be in the front row, but her own life is in no
>way incomplete without it.

Now this makes perfect sense, and it's what I figured. Neither one of them is hurting for cash, after all. Though Miki is a part of all that. =) Not sure they get much time together, though, as busy as they all are.

>
>> when
>>EPU has fights that are meant to simply be an awesome fight (Corwin
>>probending, for example) as opposed to ones that are meant to be
>>spiritually or emotionally significant in some way
>
>For the record, I'm reasonably sure this one was supposed to be both.
>
>>This was a decent movement, on its own, but the Suite as a
>>whole is starting to drag just a bit.
>
>I've addressed this elsewhere in this same thread, and don't feel like
>going over it again here, so in this spot I'll just point to that one
>and say: Yeah... so I've been told.

*nod* No worries.

>
>>I'm hesitant at making this sort
>>of pronouncement without the entire thing being out (I've been burned
>>before) but while this installment wasn't bad, it was remarkably
>>plot-free.
>
>Hmm. You think? 'Cause I thought there was quite a bit going on. I
>mean, it's called Familiar Spirits for a reason, and almost
>everything that happens here touches that theme in one way or another.
> Just to take three examples, the ice dodging scene is far more than
>"sailing porn", the Rose Duel was intended to mean a number of
>different things, and you may not have a good feeling about
>Anthy's "oh hey" moment and what Utena's reaction to it may mean, but
>that doesn't make it not plot.

Agreed.

>
>Then there was Lhakpa-Nyima, we learned a few things about Karana and
>Azana, there's setup for what Anne's going to be up to once the school
>year's done... and that's the stuff that isn't meant to be
>hidden hooks for stuff you'll only realize was set up here later on.
>No, "starting to drag a bit," I'll take that one and roll with it as
>best I can, but I don't think I'm havin' "remarkably plot-free".

It had a bit less plot than some pieces but was in no way devoid of plot. I think it feels that way solely because we had several pieces with similar plot ratios in a row. Honestly, I'm not bothered by it at all and, despite my earlier comments am very much looking forward to the continuation.


--------

this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
now
let everything be destroyed

--mu


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Gryphonadmin
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49. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #46
 
   >>>Yes! Yes, it is, Korra. There are weird grooming implications involved
>>>given the fact that you helped raise the boy.
>
>I thought I was the odd one out when I told myself this was a bad, bad
>idea.

In fairness, Korra obviously thought so too, at least unconsciously.

>No matter how
>long they both live, there's always going to be a sense that she has
>moral authority over him. That sense will never go away and it means
>they can be friends, sure, but anything more comes across badly.

This is a thing that immortals run up against a lot, actually - particularly the Æsir, but "ordinary" ones as well. It turns out that if you're going to live for a really, really long time, words like "always" and "never" are not necessarily accurate in a lot of their common idiomatic senses. However, this is getting well ahead of the game.

>There's no jealousy on the part of either one? At all?

No, not particularly. Jealousy is for people who think they stand to lose in some way.

>>That rather depends on what it's not yet time for, which is not
>>in evidence here. I mean, give Anthy and Utena credit for one thing,
>
>Gryphon, I respect you too much to pull punches here. What's in
>evidence, so far, is the beginnings of romance.

Not necessarily. It may be the beginnings of romantic attraction, but that, one submits, is not the same thing at all. One is a deliberate and complicated undertaking that is fully within an individual's control. The other is an unconscious response a person either feels or doesn't according to the whim of the Great Magnet. Choosing to act on B may lead to A, but in my experience, one doesn't get a choice as to whether B is there in the first place.

>In other words, their marriage can't be hurt by bringing Korra into
>it.

Not precisely. I mean, as you note, neither of them is particularly interested in that capacity, nor do they have any reason to believe that the converse is true. Nobody's seriously considering attempting to square the trilateral, as it were.

>Between that and
>the jealousy thing I mentioned above, I'm not at all sure why they
>would be for anything beyond friendship between Corwin and Korra.

I'm going to get into this more next time, and I can't really dig into it here without spoiling a fairly important scene, but it's worth noting that what U&A are primarily concerned with at this time is preserving that friendship - insulating it from the potential corrosive effects of that unconscious stepping back she noticed Korra doing - not necessarily promoting "anything beyond" it.

My original plan was to sort the whole thing out (at least for the short-to-medium term) in this one episode, but as the latter part of it came together, I realized that I'd have to let it ride a little to pace it properly. For now, just be aware that I'm not taking it lightly. As with many of the more intimately character-centered storylines around here, it is less a grand scheme than a thing that developed which I am now having to deal with.

>Now this makes perfect sense, and it's what I figured. Neither one of
>them is hurting for cash, after all. Though Miki is a part of all
>that. =)

Well, true, but Miki's such a bohemian he's also not bothered either way. If Juri woke up one morning and decided, "I cannot possibly go another day without making this stuff official," he'd buy a suit and report for duty, but it's not gonna be his idea. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Astynax
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52. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #46
 
  
>Gryphon, I respect you too much to pull punches here. What's in
>evidence, so far, is the beginnings of romance. If that's not what
>happens...well, good. But that's what it looks like and that's what's
>squicking me.
>

See, I'm not sure where folks are coming to this from. I suspect you've surprised Gryphon with it. I saw it as not the beginnings of romance, but the beginnings of Korra realizing that, to anyone outside her own head, it could look a hell of a lot like romance. Before, it seemed she didn't fully see Corwin as he is now, so the idea was obviously laughable, but now she's turned a mental corner, can see him as a man grown, and bingo we have awkwardness.

She doesn't want him in that way, and she doesn't want anyone to think that she does, but she doesn't want to go all cold and professional (that just isn't Korra.) It's just she's damned unsure how to walk the right line, or even see the right line, to split the difference.


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Just my view from the cheap seats."


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Gryphonadmin
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53. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #52
 
   >I saw it as not the beginnings of
>romance, but the beginnings of Korra realizing that, to anyone outside
>her own head, it could look a hell of a lot like romance. Before, it
>seemed she didn't fully see Corwin as he is now, so the idea was
>obviously laughable, but now she's turned a mental corner, can see him
>as a man grown, and bingo we have awkwardness.

Yes! That is much closer to the case, and better than I managed to word it. Kate's remark back in Goodbye and Hello ("if you had been on a date, it would've looked exactly the same") is kind of rattling around in her subconscious now, and the appearance worries her. And it doesn't need to, which is mainly what's preoccupying Anthy.

That said, however...

>She doesn't want him in that way, and she doesn't want anyone to think
>that she does, but she doesn't want to go all cold and professional
>(that just isn't Korra.) It's just she's damned unsure how to walk the
>right line, or even see the right line, to split the difference.

... at the same time, she'd be lying if she tried to claim flat-out that she doesn't find his adult self attractive. Like she told Utena, he's like somebody made the greatest hits album of her original crew (no, I'm not going to spell it with a K), and that's not hard work to have around/look at/give a noogie to/get a piggyback from/take a nap on a warm spring afternoon with/and so forth.

But, see, the other thing I was trying (and mostly failing) to get across earlier is that there's a long way between feeling an attraction and declaring that the captain has turned off the Fasten Belts sign. At this point Korra's not convinced that even the near end of that continuum is acceptable (even though it's not really in her control), but a few people seem to think that A) she wants to cut straight to the far end and B) Utena and Anthy are prepared to encourage her to get right the heck on with it. Neither of those things is the case, and I was a bit... taken aback... by the apparent assumption that they were.

(Also, no one really seems to have solicited Corwin's opinion of the matter yet, although he did give a fair summary back in Try Again.)

--G.
I'm just a soul whose intentions are good / Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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BobSchroeck
Charter Member
2209 posts
Jun-13-14, 09:07 AM (EST)
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48. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #45
 
   > >Y'know, what with Corwin getting hitched and all, I wonder if Juri and
> >Kaitlyn are ever gonna get married.

> Well... ever is a long time. Juri is, as you note, not real comfortable with
> the concept generally, and Kaitlyn can take marriage or leave it. It's only
> a piece of paper to her. It's not as if they live in a society where if
> you're not married they won't let you jointly buy a house or check into a
> hotel or anything, nor are they likely to be concerned about legitimizing
> the children anytime soon.

And let us not forget that Miki, at least the last that we've seen on-screen as I recall, is part of the equation as well, and would have his own contribution to both the dynamic and the subject.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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BobSchroeck
Charter Member
2209 posts
Jun-13-14, 09:03 AM (EST)
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47. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #44
 
   > This was a decent movement, on its own, but the Suite as a whole is starting
> to drag just a bit. I'm hesitant at making this sort of pronouncement
> without the entire thing being out (I've been burned before) but while this
> installment wasn't bad, it was remarkably plot-free.

I've been hesitant to say it before, but yes, I have to agree with this. This was the first UF installment since the Symphony began where I wasn't driven to read it all in one sitting. Until maybe the last third I kept finding my attention drifting from it, going off and doing something else, and then coming back for another few pages before the cycle repeated. It's not that it's not good and that I didn't enjoy it -- it most certainly is, and I most certainly did -- but it didn't drag me in and refuse to let me go the way practically everything else in the modern UF canon has.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Croaker
Charter Member
555 posts
Jun-13-14, 05:33 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #44
 
   > I don't have a lot to say about the sailing porn; I read this at
> a bad time for it, as I'm currently plowing through the most recent
> couple books of Weber's Safehold series (shut up, it's a guilty pleasure)
> and there's like a hundred and fifty pages of people fighting the ocean
> in each of them, so I'm a bit full up. It was competent and well-executed;
> I'm afraid my own knowledge of the practicalities of sailing ends with
> very dim memories of watching The Voyage of the Mimi in middle school.


That's okay.

All you really need to know about it is that they are trying something that is insanely, stupidly, Darwin-Award-deliberately-grabbing-hold-of SUICIDALLY dangerous, and in the usual manner of EPU protagonists, pulling it off with flare, style, and panache.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
952 posts
Jun-13-14, 06:58 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #50
 
   >All you really need to know about it is that they are trying something
>that is insanely, stupidly,
>Darwin-Award-deliberately-grabbing-hold-of SUICIDALLY dangerous
,
>and in the usual manner of EPU protagonists, pulling it off with
>flare, style, and panache.

It is my secret dream that one of the future UF Gryphlets (calling them Gryphon-chicks has what we in the trade call implications) turns out to have DSA or dyspraxia or something, so despite all the martial artists about throwing everything they've got at the poor bairn, they wind up completely useless at it and become something else instead. Not for lack of trying, though, as they throw themselves into combat training because it's the only way they think their slew of parents and parent by-products will ever actually be proud of them.

And then they still save the day, because sometimes you need to have a hero whose prowess isn't conventional "kill everything with preferred Large Metal Thing" stuff. Maybe bureaucracy-fu, maybe information-gathering, maybe just being really good at talking to politicians. But nothing involving, on a personal level, punching Evil very hard in the face. Like if Francis Urquhart was a hero.

It'll never happen, of course, but sometimes I imagine what we'd get if it did.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.


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