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Conferences Symphony of the Sword / The Order of the Rose Topic #449
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Gryphonadmin
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Aug-10-14, 02:44 AM (EST)
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"A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
 
   So, as noted elsewhere, the idea behind the Order of the Rose / Dìqiú Suite reorg was to set that cycle of stories apart from the four Symphonies of the Sword and give them their own sort of thematic identity.

During the process of developing the graphics for the OOTR and DS pages, it occurred to me that I might also re-dress the Symphony No. 4 index page slightly, changing the title graphic, to make the page a sort of visual bridge between the earlier Symphonies and OOTR. Since S4 is set following a significant timeskip after S3, and begins a number of threads that carry into OOTR (e.g., Juniper, the Klingon Civil War), I thought that might be appropriate...

... but then I thought, hang on, the whole point of this exercise was to set OOTR apart from the Symphonies, and now you want to make one of the Symphony pages look a bit like it? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose?

I can see both sides of the above argument, having basically posed it to myself, but I haven't decided what to do about it. So this post is basically me thinking out loud at the end of a busy day that hasn't led to anything visible (I'm in the process of recording some missing audio, HTMLing a few more Minis that deserve more prominent placement on story pages, and - at long last - overhauling the UF Chronological Listing page, which is a horrible crufty mess underneath and out-of-date on the surface).

For the curious, this is what the OOTR-style S4 page would look like. Basically the same, just a new banner graphic.

On the downside, working on all this backend stuff means I'm not getting much actual creativity done this week. So hopefully the housekeeping will be done with soon and I can get back to that. I'm not sure how realistic the goal is at this point, with only three weeks left, but it would be nice to have DS05 done before I go back to school. I'll be taking the last of the math-heavy courses required to finish my MET minor and my senior seminar to finish my HTY degree this fall, so I expect I'll be pretty busy.

I'm also playing around with the idea of taking ART 100 (Drawing I), because a) I need three credits to stay full-time, b) I don't want to take more than two really mathy engineering classes at a time if I can help it, c) More HTY classes would be redundant at this point, and d) it's annoyed me for a long time that my hands don't know what to do with my ridiculously visual imagination. I dunno, though. Three credits' worth of tuition is a lot of money to pay to learn to draw a vase, which is probably about all the first class gets to, and the only one that still has an open seat is at 9 in the morning. I can barely walk at 9 AM, much less make my hands and eyes do precise things. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
A Thing I'm of Two Minds About [View All] Gryphonadmin Aug-10-14 TOP
  RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About drakensis Aug-10-14 1
     RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About Matrix Dragon Aug-10-14 2
  RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About McFortner Aug-10-14 3
     RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About Gryphonadmin Aug-10-14 4
     RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About Blackbird Aug-10-14 6
  RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About Gryphonadmin Aug-10-14 5
     RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About SpottedKitty Aug-10-14 7
         RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About twipper Aug-12-14 13
     RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About DaPatman89 Aug-12-14 14
         RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About Gryphonadmin Aug-12-14 15
  RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About Silversword Aug-11-14 8
     RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About Gryphonadmin Aug-11-14 9
         RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About laudre Aug-11-14 12
  RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About pjmoyermoderator Aug-11-14 10
     RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About BobSchroeck Aug-11-14 11
  RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About TheOtherSean Aug-12-14 16
     RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About Gryphonadmin Aug-12-14 17

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drakensis
Member since Dec-20-06
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Aug-10-14, 03:12 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #0
 
   Given the timeskip between Symphony No.3 and Symphony No.4 there would be an argument for moving the latter over into The Order of the Rose as the First Act, with the current TOotR becoming the Second Act.

D.


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Matrix Dragon
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Aug-10-14, 03:16 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #1
 
   >Given the timeskip between Symphony No.3 and Symphony No.4 there would
>be an argument for moving the latter over into The Order of the Rose
>as the First Act, with the current TOotR becoming the Second Act.

Given the conclusion of Symphony 4, I'd say it makes sense to keep it as Symphony. That said, having the graphics for it being sort of a midpoint between it and OOTR fits.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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McFortner
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Aug-10-14, 03:22 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-14 AT 03:22 AM (EDT)
 
Gryph, I'm real leery about posting this because the last time I threw something off the cuff (a joke about Raven and Toph meeting) you ended up going on an Avatar binge (probably coincidence, but still...). I was thinking you could take an approach like they did with the theme music to Babylon 5, with each year the same general song but with subtle differences to reflect each season's direction, and start from SOS1 and have each following Symphony page slowly progressing towards something like OOTR page graphics.

And now that I've set this bug in your ear, I am waiting for you to get on here and start calling me everything but the Son of God for getting this idea in your head and all the work that it adds to you. Sorry 'bout that. Feel free to cuss me out here publicly if you wish. :)

Michael

Michael C. Fortner
"Maxim 37: There is no such thing as "overkill".
There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload".


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Gryphonadmin
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Aug-10-14, 11:05 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #3
 
   >Gryph, I'm real leery about posting this because the last time I threw
>something off the cuff (a joke about Raven and Toph meeting) you ended
>up going on an Avatar binge (probably coincidence, but still...).

Heh, that was coincidental (and the "binge" part was Phil's fault)l, though it reminds me that they haven't, unless it was at the wedding and we didn't see it.

>I was thinking you could take an approach like they did with the theme
>music to Babylon 5, with each year the same general song but with
>subtle differences to reflect each season's direction, and start from
>SOS1 and have each following Symphony page slowly progressing towards
>something like OOTR page graphics.

Hmm. An intriguing idea. The Symphony title graphic could probably use a little refreshing anyway (it's a bit low-rez and at the time it was made, GIF was the only reliable way to get transparent backgrounds in all browsers, which greatly limited the available color depth), and the intermediate stages would call from some fontology, which is always fun.

Apart from the obvious challenge of envisioning what the transitional phases would look like, the main challenge there would be sourcing the base images. For instance, there's a weapon missing from my set that would be needed to do a similar sort of graphic for anytime before Knights III. I have a photo of a sword that kinda LOOKS like the Thorn of the Rose, but that wouldn't feed the bulldog in, for instance, the border of an S2 title image.

Hey Terminus, feel like another project? :)

>And now that I've set this bug in your ear, I am waiting for you to
>get on here and start calling me everything but the Son of God for
>getting this idea in your head and all the work that it adds to you.

Well, there wouldn't actually be that much - there are, after all, only two Symphonies between 1 and 4 - but as you see above, the idea does make work for more than just me. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Blackbird
Member since Jan-2-13
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Aug-10-14, 09:43 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-14 AT 09:47 PM (EDT)
 
>I was thinking you could take an approach like they did with the theme
>music to Babylon 5, with each year the same general song but with
>subtle differences to reflect each season's direction, and start from
>SOS1 and have each following Symphony page slowly progressing towards
>something like OOTR page graphics.

I rather like this idea, because otherwise, you'd have the first three Symphonies, then a completely new title image, which'd be a bit jarring. Besides, it was mentioned earlier that the way S4 ends is an appropriate close to the Symphony of the Sword in toto, and I am therefore quite pleased with the reorg, especially since it simultaneously solves the rather long sidetrack into Dìqiú.

Besides, there's a timeskip in S3 anyway, which is actually longer than that from the end of S3 to the beginning of S4, and if S4 moved to the opera, then the SOS would end with Lion of Avalon, which is kind of an odd note.


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Gryphonadmin
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5. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #0
 
   >at long last - overhauling the UF
>Chronological Listing page, which is a horrible crufty mess underneath
>and out-of-date on the surface).

This is done! Thanks to Dave for fixing a couple of spots where I broke the PHP getting all cargo-culty on it.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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SpottedKitty
Member since Jun-15-04
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Aug-10-14, 10:36 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #5
 
   Slight glitch: the links to Clarion Call have different filenames in the Chronology page (05-clarioncall.txt) and in the OotR page (05-clarion.txt) - only the second one works.

FWIW, I like the new rearrangement. I wasn't quite beginning to get lost mentally fitting the new Legacy stories into the existing material, but this does make a lot more sense now.

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.


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twipper
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Aug-12-14, 04:55 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #7
 
   Agreed. Everytime I read something new, I'm almost always trying to figure out how far out story x leaves me from A Day of Infamy. The chronological listing is very nice.

Brian


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DaPatman89
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Aug-12-14, 05:30 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #5
 
   Unless you're excluding it from the list on purpose, you appear to have missed out The Most Outrageous Top Gear Episode in the World... Ever.

---

"Things in life aren't always quite what they seem,
There's more than one given angle to any one given scene.
So bear that in mind next time you try to intervene
On any one given angle on any one given scene."
Angles - dan le sac vs. Scroobius Pip


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Gryphonadmin
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Aug-12-14, 05:32 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #14
 
   >Unless you're excluding it from the list on purpose, you appear to
>have missed out The Most Outrageous Top Gear Episode in the
>World... Ever.

Probably it got left off originally because I don't bother putting the Forum stories on the chron list unless they get promoted, and then I forgot to add it when TMOetc. did get promoted.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Silversword
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Aug-11-14, 00:26 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #0
 
   >I'm also playing around with the idea of taking ART 100 (Drawing I),
>because ...
>d) it's annoyed me for a long time that my hands don't know what to do
>with my ridiculously visual imagination.

For what it's worth; while that is amongst the best reasons to do art (s'why I went for it, though also because I lacked the verbal capacity to describe my imagination to other people, which is less of a concern in your case), it's...uh, not a -fast- process. Like most creative tasks, you will inevitably spend the first couple years and x amount of works making nothing but utter junk that you will throw out. In varying degrees of disgust. After that it gets better, but taking a class would mostly be just a way to garuantee some time aside to get a feel for it.

I'm not sure whether this should be considered an incentive or a warning. Probably both!

(As for the Symphony title graphic, I like the B5 per-season approach concept suggested earlier. It appeals to my visual senses and I am not good with setting reasonable goals.)

~Silv'


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Gryphonadmin
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Aug-11-14, 00:41 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #8
 
   >Like most creative
>tasks, you will inevitably spend the first couple years and x amount
>of works making nothing but utter junk that you will throw out. In
>varying degrees of disgust.

I know, which is why I'm 41 and I haven't done it yet. In fact, it'll probably take me longer, on account of I'm not always able to get my hands to do precisely what I wanted them to do in the first place.

On the other hand, I'm not looking to be Renoir by December, I'm just... looking for the entrance ramp. I could sit and make random marks on paper as the whim takes me for the next 20 years or so and that wouldn't get me anywhere at all. Best-case, the class at least provides a strategy. :)

I dunno. I might not do it. Bureaucratic necessity* or not, it's a lot of money for something like that. If I had thought of it three years ago, I could've gone for an art/graphic design minor, which would be a handy thing to have, but it's too late to start that now.

--G.
* The classes I need to finish my degree only amount to 10 credits, which is two short of full-time. Because of the way financial aid works, I need to spend the money for another three credits' worth of something - well, technically two, but there are no two-credit courses - or my award package gets cut in about half, which is a lot more than three credits' worth of cash and may leave me unable to pay for the whole semester's gas, which sort of defeats the purpose when you commute 140 miles a day.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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laudre
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Aug-11-14, 11:05 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #9
 
   >On the other hand, I'm not looking to be Renoir by December, I'm
>just... looking for the entrance ramp. I could sit and make random
>marks on paper as the whim takes me for the next 20 years or so and
>that wouldn't get me anywhere at all. Best-case, the class at least
>provides a strategy. :)

Based on my better half's experience, this is absolutely the right reason to be taking such a class. Like many (many) skills and disciplines, teaching oneself is possible, but tutelage under a competent instructor is far more effective.

(The qualifier about "competent" is quite critical, however; there are some art faculty out there who are excellent artists but terrible at teaching art.)


"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


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pjmoyermoderator
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Aug-11-14, 08:40 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #0
 
   >I'm also playing around with the idea of taking ART 100 (Drawing I),
>because a) I need three credits to stay full-time, b) I don't want to
>take more than two really mathy engineering classes at a time if I can
>help it, c) More HTY classes would be redundant at this point, and d)
>it's annoyed me for a long time that my hands don't know what to do
>with my ridiculously visual imagination. I dunno, though. Three
>credits' worth of tuition is a lot of money to pay to learn to draw a
>vase, which is probably about all the first class gets to, and the
>only one that still has an open seat is at 9 in the morning. I can
>barely walk at 9 AM, much less make my hands and eyes do precise
>things. :)

My own experience with ARTS 110 (Elements of Drawing I) covered "Fundamental concepts, media, and processes of drawing. Emphasis on observation and representation in combination with individual expression. Subject matter includes still life, human figure, nature, the built environment, and conceptual projects." So you should be getting a little bit of everything if it's a full laboratory course. Dunno what I can tell you about a 9 am course, though. ^_-;

--- Philip






Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"
Fandoms -- Fanart -- Fan Meta Discussions


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BobSchroeck
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Aug-11-14, 09:03 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #10
 
   >My own experience with ARTS 110 (Elements of Drawing I) covered
>"Fundamental concepts, media, and processes of drawing. Emphasis on
>observation and representation in combination with individual
>expression. Subject matter includes still life, human figure, nature,
>the built environment, and conceptual projects." So you should be
>getting a little bit of everything if it's a full laboratory course.
>Dunno what I can tell you about a 9 am course, though. ^_-;

Sounds a lot like the Art 101 class I took in my senior year of college, so maybe we're seeing a more-or-less standard course content across schools here...

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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TheOtherSean
Member since Jul-7-08
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Aug-12-14, 09:15 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #0
 
   I like the new look for SoS4. Very Art Deco while forming a nice stylistic transition between the earlier Symphonies and the Opera. I'm liking the new organization.

As for 9 AM classes, I will comment on some of my relatively recent experience. YMMV. I only took one 8 AM course during my last (and successful - I haz degree!) university experience. The course was Primate Locomotion, and very few of use primates where able to reliably locomote to it on-time regularly, and total attendance dropped by over half before the end of the term. (The professor even ran rather late once.) It wasn't the best situation for trying to comprehend a mess of biomechanics and evolutionary theory. The 9:30 AM class that followed was rather better attended - at least three quarters of the class was usually there on time - but that was still early enough that some couldn't make it reliably to class (or coherently through it). My previous experiences with courses in those time slots were far worse.

If you've traditionally had problems getting there and being coherent, it may be wiser not to try. OTOH, if you're so psyched by the course that you think you can get there on time and get stuff done, by all means go for it. And if you find you can't handle it, drop or withdraw ASAP, if at all possible. No reason to ruin your academic situation for a drawing course, even if it might be fun or exciting. Other things to consider. Could you possibly audit it, or take it pass/fail, in order to reduce potential risk?

--
The Other Sean - Don't accept substitutes!
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?


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Gryphonadmin
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Aug-12-14, 09:29 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: A Thing I'm of Two Minds About"
In response to message #16
 
   >I only took one 8 AM course during my last (and
>successful - I haz degree!) university experience.

Heh, mine was Statics (the branch of classical mechanics dealing with forces applied to structures that aren't moving), a couple of springs ago. I did very well! But I'm not entirely sure how, since I don't really remember taking it.

The best part of Statics was that, since there are no classes before 8 AM at the University of Maine, the room was open beforehand. Before the first exam, Prof. Dvorak casually mentioned, "Optionally, I'll be here at seven if anybody wants to get an early start on the exam."

I thought, Optionally, fuck that, showed up at 8, and had the test about half-finished when the class period ended at 8:50. Lesson learned! Optional doesn't mean optional to Prof. Dvorak.

(Somehow I got an A in that class anyway, despite barely passing the first exam on account of I hadn't done 60% of it. Like I say, I'm not sure how now.)

I'm scheduled for the sequel to that class, Dynamics (you can guess what that's about), this fall; same professor, but it's in the afternoon, so I'm going to guess he's not going to be able to pull that same trick with the exams... but one never knows. Maybe his exams just take someone with my plodding math brain two hours to complete, which would mean I'm basically fucked. :)

(As an aside, I like Prof. Dvorak, despite the nasty trick with the Statics exams. He was very good to me at a number of points when things got... complicated... during the year. That was the spring when I got the diagnosis that would ultimately lead me to spend most of the summer preparing for, having, and recovering from cancer surgery.)

>Could you possibly audit it, or take it
>pass/fail, in order to reduce potential risk?

Auditing wouldn't help, since audited classes don't count for purposes of computing part-/full-time status at UMaine, and the whole point of the exercise was to fill an enrollment hole. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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