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Sofaspud
Member since Apr-7-06
433 posts
Jan-03-11, 11:32 PM (EDT)
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"Battle 6 and general WL questions"
 
   I read the new one the day it hit and have been pondering it ever since, trying to figure out what about it 'does it' for me.

Whatever it is, it does it very, very well.

I've always loved the WL series, with the crazy normal oddly twisted mirror of our own world that it occurs in. Eight years is a long time to carry a torch -- this is not a dig, just an observation -- and I feel like my anticipation has been rewarded.

But...

The writing has improved, I think. I just finished re-reading the entire series to date, and that much is unmistakable. It has a much... higher level of craftsmanship, let's say. That said, I found myself wondering several things as I read it. I'll just throw them out there.

* Meg Bennett -- and Zoner, for that matter -- barely get a mention, it feels like (Zoner has some screen time, as it were, at least :). I understand that they're not the focus of this particular piece, but I'm hoping we see more of both, because I really dug the 'buddy movie' vibe that Gryph and Zoner had, and after all the setup, I'm eagerly awaiting the payoff of the Bennett thing. It feels unfinished right now.

* Gena d'Amato (I think I spelled that right): was she a one-off original character? I'd love to see more of her, and she felt like a character that was meant to be recurring, but so far, nada. Again, I grok the latest bit isn't about her, so she doesn't need to appear; I'm just pointing out that she's joined the list of characters that I'd love to see more of who are Persons Not Appearing In This Episode.

* The dates given seem slippery to me, but I might have misparsed them. If I'm reading it right, this latest bit takes place a month or so after the one before, which means that Sakura has... developed really, really fast. If that's intentional, phew, she's a prodigy, but it's a minor bit that just doesn't ring right to me for some reason.

* The X-Men references are... well, they're nifty, no doubt, but (touching back on the above) I feel like they're more characters that are being introduced that I don't want to see wind up on the scrapheap. If I'd my druthers I'd rather see more of the existing cast than new ones... dunno if that's not possible due to plot points or what, though.


--sofaspud
--


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
Battle 6 and general WL questions [View All] Sofaspud Jan-03-11 TOP
  RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions Gryphonadmin Jan-04-11 1
     RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions s3yang Jan-04-11 2
     RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions Zemyla Jan-06-11 3
         RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions Gryphonadmin Jan-06-11 4
             RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions Droken Jan-06-11 5
                 RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions Gryphonadmin Jan-06-11 6
                     RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions Droken Jan-06-11 8
                 RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions s3yang Jan-06-11 7
                     RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions Gryphonadmin Jan-06-11 9
                         RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions s3yang Jan-06-11 10
                             RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions zojojojo Jan-07-11 11
                                 RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions Gryphonadmin Jan-07-11 12

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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-04-11, 00:02 AM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #0
 
   >* Meg Bennett -- and Zoner, for that matter -- barely get a mention,
>it feels like (Zoner has some screen time, as it were, at least :). I
>understand that they're not the focus of this particular piece, but
>I'm hoping we see more of both, because I really dug the 'buddy movie'
>vibe that Gryph and Zoner had, and after all the setup, I'm eagerly
>awaiting the payoff of the Bennett thing. It feels unfinished right
>now.

Well, the Meg plotline was pretty much the real-life Zoner's work, and he's not on the active list these days - we live far apart and he's got a lot more stuff going on in real life these days. Myself, I'm not sure what to do with it now. I sidestepped that in 06 by just not dealing with it; there's -mention- of it in 07 (which I'm putting the finishing touches on now - well, not right now, I'm replying to your post right now, but you know), but she doesn't actually appear. Barring future developments IRL, which is always possible, I suspect she and what she's doing are going to be present in-universe but mostly offscreen, as if she were the star of a spinoff series that airs on a different night.

>* Gena d'Amato (I think I spelled that right): was she a one-off
>original character?

Gena's partially original; she's based on one of the drivers in Crazy Taxi, but since they aren't really characters, as such, most of the detail about her in Battle 05 was made up by us (along with her last name).

She lives in Boston and may well reappear later on; basically, what I've been doing over the course of the series is building up a "stable" of characters who are part of our main heroes' lives, but not necessarily in them all the time, so that when they do reappear it's a bit of an occasion. The other World Warriors (apart from Cammy) are the same sort of thing, e.g., Ryu's not going to be in every episode, or even most of them, but he's out there, and when he's needed, he'll be around. Gena's kind of the same deal. The Street Fighter games themselves rather work that way, so it seems in keeping with the spirit of the material.

>* The dates given seem slippery to me, but I might have misparsed
>them. If I'm reading it right, this latest bit takes place a month or
>so after the one before, which means that Sakura has... developed
>really, really fast. If that's intentional, phew, she's a prodigy,
>but it's a minor bit that just doesn't ring right to me for some
>reason.

More like two months - Gryphon mentions at one point in 06 that he and Sakura have been training together for about seven weeks by the time of the Alkali Dam mission. It's worth bearing in mind, though, that she wasn't a normal civilian when they met. When she first appears in Battle 03, she's already got roughly the set of moves (if not quite the experience in using them) that she had in her first game appearance, which was enough to make her a viable player character in Street Fighter Alpha.

The dates are a bit liquid in the later eps, because (as often happens in serial fiction) the pace of production started lagging behind the original setting such that I decided to slide the whole universe from specific dates (the first few eps, as you see, are all set specifically in 1994) and into Non-Specific Present Day Comic Book Time. That's why, for instance, the journal entries in Warrior Dawn: The Contract have those (Capcom-style!) "19XX" dates.

A good illustration of this is the change I had to make to the scene in 06 with Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. In the original cut of that scene, the Brigadier gives Gryphon a floppy diskette containing all SIS knows about the secret Shadolu facility where Cammy's being held. When I updated the scene for release, I changed it to a USB flash drive so that the scene wouldn't be so obviously in-period, and in the next episode Zoner's Motorola Droid plays an important role.

>* The X-Men references are... well, they're nifty, no doubt, but
>(touching back on the above) I feel like they're more characters that
>are being introduced that I don't want to see wind up on the
>scrapheap.

Oh, they won't. Logan and Jubilee are in WL in the first place because I made a remark about how I wanted to get someone from every Capcom fighting game into WL at some point, and someone asked, "Even X-Men: Children of the Atom?" thinking I would say, "Well, OK, maybe not that one." :) But that said, Logan's an important part of G's backstory, an integral part of his network of contacts, and he'll be back. One thing about Wolverine is that he'll always be back. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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s3yang
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Jan-04-11, 10:28 AM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #1
 
   >Oh, they won't. Logan and Jubilee are in WL in the first place
>because I made a remark about how I wanted to get someone from every
>Capcom fighting game into WL at some point, and someone asked, "Even
>X-Men: Children of the Atom?" thinking I would say, "Well, OK,
>maybe not that one." :) But that said, Logan's an important part of
>G's backstory, an integral part of his network of contacts, and he'll
>be back. One thing about Wolverine is that he'll always be
>back. :)

Yay! Mind you, as much as I like Wolverine as a character in this series, it's really the Sakura/Jubilee shenanigans that I'm looking forward to.


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Zemyla
Member since Mar-26-08
430 posts
Jan-06-11, 03:46 AM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #1
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-11 AT 03:46 AM (EST)
 
>Oh, they won't. Logan and Jubilee are in WL in the first place
>because I made a remark about how I wanted to get someone from every
>Capcom fighting game into WL at some point, and someone asked, "Even
>X-Men: Children of the Atom?" thinking I would say, "Well, OK,
>maybe not that one." :) But that said, Logan's an important part of
>G's backstory, an integral part of his network of contacts, and he'll
>be back. One thing about Wolverine is that he'll always be
>back. :)

Every Capcom fighting game? Even Star Gladiator? :P


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-06-11, 04:11 AM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #3
 
   >Every Capcom fighting game? Even Star Gladiator? :P

Hayato or June would work, they'd just need less futuristic weapons.

No, the real challenge is going to be Tech Romancer.

--G.
CHOUkosenki... KIKAIIIIIOOOOOOHHHHHH!!!
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Droken
Member since May-6-08
417 posts
Jan-06-11, 10:06 AM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #4
 
   Did Capcom also do the Dark Stalkers games?

-Droken

"If at first you don't succeed, bull-
riding is not for you."


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-06-11, 12:39 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #5
 
   >Did Capcom also do the Dark Stalkers games?

Yes indeed.

Again, it's just a question of picking the right representative. I mean, for instance, Victor von Gerdenheim doesn't really fit under the WL universe's weirdness ceiling, but there are some who'd fit right in.

--G.
"OK, this is probably a stupid question, but - are you a jiangshi? Yeah. OK. Great. Chinese hopping vampire. Why not? Not really any weirder than Dhalsim the Mystic."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Droken
Member since May-6-08
417 posts
Jan-06-11, 12:50 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #6
 
   Yea, I think there are some that would be...well, right out, as it were.

"Dude, your ribs are showing."

-Droken

"If at first you don't succeed, bull-
riding is not for you."


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s3yang
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Jan-06-11, 12:43 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #5
 
   They did, but I'm pretty sure that giant robots are harder to work in than the dark-stalkers. Especially since a number of them work fine as characters if you take out the supernatural background and replace it with something that results in a more or less in character personality (and moveset).

For example, I don't think mutants actually exist in WL (Though I could be wrong), the implication with Decapre for example, is that all of Logan's abilities including the regeneration is from weapon X, and Jubilee seems to be a vanilla human(as far as biology goes).

But hey! the robot fighting might still be doable, maybe there's more advanced version of robot wars going on out there!


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-06-11, 12:56 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #7
 
   >For example, I don't think mutants actually exist in WL (Though I
>could be wrong), the implication with Decapre for example, is that all
>of Logan's abilities including the regeneration is from weapon X, and
>Jubilee seems to be a vanilla human(as far as biology goes).

They're certainly not as widespread as they are in the Marvel Universe - in fact, it's conceivable that Logan is the only one, though it's also possible that some of the other individuals with superhuman abilities around the WL universe unknowingly get their powers from mutation rather than (as they think) magic/the power of yoga/whatever spin they've put on it. It isn't a recognized phenomenon affecting a distinct (and often discriminated-against) subset of the population, certainly.

That said, Logan's powers in WL work the same way they did in the comics before the "bone claws" retcon: All the metal bits were installed later, but he was born with his healing factor. it's what enabled him to survive the Weapon X process in the first place. That's why the Canadians scrapped the project, and thus why there isn't an army of Weapons X kicking around the WL world - nobody else would have lived through the implantation process, let alone recovered from the trauma sufficiently to be useful as a field operative.

From Decapre's demonstration in Battle 06, we can deduce that Shadolu's people have figured out a way to duplicate that factor and induce it in test subjects. We can only hope, for the world's sake, that it's not practical to undertake on a mass-production scale. An army of weaponized Decapres would be decorative, but also very bad news.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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s3yang
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Jan-06-11, 03:18 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #9
 
   >From Decapre's demonstration in Battle 06, we can deduce that
>Shadolu's people have figured out a way to duplicate that factor and
>induce it in test subjects. We can only hope, for the world's sake,
>that it's not practical to undertake on a mass-production scale. An
>army of weaponized Decapres would be decorative, but also very
>bad news.

Yikes, that says something pretty danged serious about Shadolu's research division then, considering the original Weapon X must've tried something similar. I'm going to hope that they didn't managed to crack the problem in the short time that they had Logan... but that'd mean that they'd probably been collecting samples left behind by Logan for a while.


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zojojojo
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Jan-07-11, 08:40 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #10
 
   >>From Decapre's demonstration in Battle 06, we can deduce that
>>Shadolu's people have figured out a way to duplicate that factor and
>>induce it in test subjects. We can only hope, for the world's sake,
>>that it's not practical to undertake on a mass-production scale. An
>>army of weaponized Decapres would be decorative, but also very
>>bad news.
>
>Yikes, that says something pretty danged serious about Shadolu's
>research division then, considering the original Weapon X must've
>tried something similar. I'm going to hope that they didn't managed to
>crack the problem in the short time that they had Logan... but that'd
>mean that they'd probably been collecting samples left behind by Logan
>for a while.

keep in mind that shadolu probably stole all the weapon x research and built on that... also that they probably had a lot less regard for (or difficulty finding) "test subjects" for their experiments. much like in our world, the nazis and japanese discovered a lot of interesting things about the limits and workings of the human body, but the pow's and concentration camp prisoners could have done without the knowledge, if you take my meaning.

-Z


---
Remember kids: guns make you stupid, duct tape makes you smart.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jan-07-11, 08:51 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Battle 6 and general WL questions"
In response to message #11
 
   >keep in mind that shadolu probably stole all the weapon x research and
>built on that... also that they probably had a lot less regard for (or
>difficulty finding) "test subjects" for their experiments. much like
>in our world, the nazis and japanese discovered a lot of interesting
>things about the limits and workings of the human body, but the pow's
>and concentration camp prisoners could have done without the
>knowledge, if you take my meaning.

Indeed. There's a whole section in (I think - it's been a shamefully long time since I last re-read the book) William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich about the research the Nazis did into treatments for hypothermia and other consequences of harsh environment exposure, for the benefit of Luftwaffe pilots. Mind you, they did it by freezing concentration camp prisoners to death and carefully observing the process. Sixty years later a lot of that data is still used every day in certain circles, because it's the best data ever collected on such phenomena, even if the people who benefit from it today would rather not think about how it was collected.

Shadolu's approach to perfecting Weapon X was... similar.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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