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Subject: "CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont..." Archived thread - Read only
 
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Bad Moon
Member since Dec-17-02
290 posts
Apr-01-04, 06:50 PM (EST)
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"CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont..."
 
   I'll put my thoughts in a new thread since the old one is beefy enough as it is.

I liked this piece. It isn't going topple my current favorites in my mental index, but I liked it all the same. There is a definite shift in tone and atmosphere which took some getting used to, but not every story should be Experts and Co VS The Evil.

One thing that struck me was Gryphon's role in the story. My first reaction was that he was somewhat superfluous. He just seemed to wander around, banter with the CSI people, then wander off again. It was like he didn't know what he was doing there. After thinking it over, and looking at the dates in which Locard's takes place, I changed my mind on this being a negative. If somebody I'd loved for 400 years were taken from me as abruptly as Kei was, I wouldn't know what to do with myself either. So in context, this makes a lot of sense for Gryphon to act this way. I'm surprised he jumped back in as soon as he has.

The CSI crew:
Can't say much as to the accuracy of the characters, since I only got hooked during the first season but it got abandoned with a lot of shows when I moved and had no cable. One thing I can say is that Grissom seems to be as sharp a cookie as I remember him being but Catherine being more upbeat, but that could just be my memory. I was surprised that Grissom and Sara went along on the arrest of a guy that wipes out terrorist cells by himself. Regardless, I thought a good job was done in creating the feel of the show, and how the cast resolves story through a combination of deduction, attention to detail, and lucky breaks. Oh, and the scene where Sara imagines everyone ragging her about turning down Gryphon was comedy gold. I imagined Sara looking quizzically up at a thought bubble that appears above her head and said scene occuring.

Mephron, the One Man Plague on Big Fire:
I was completely floored when it turned out that Mephron was the killer. The first description of the revolver made me think Hellboy was really really really mad about something. Then after it turned out the suspect was human, I was clueless, and thought maybe some rogue from St. Ignatius. Even after that got somewhat confirmed, I still had no idea. When all was revealed, I was dumbstruck. I like that when that happens, but always feel chagrined that I didn't spot anything and feel glad I'm not a cop. And is that the same Jackal from Hellsing, because if it is Mephron has some strong wrists and forearms and shoulders....

Again, I enjoyed this piece, tone shifts and all.

------
Jon Helscher

Leo: (July 23—Aug. 22)
Your credulity will be stretched to the limit by the circumstances under which only you can control the giant robot.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Gryphonadmin Apr-01-04 1
     RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Bad Moon Apr-01-04 2
  RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Norgarth Apr-05-04 3
     RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Kendra Kirai Apr-06-04 4
         RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Wedge Apr-06-04 5
             RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Kendra Kirai Apr-06-04 6
         RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Gryphonadmin Apr-06-04 7
             RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Kendra Kirai Apr-06-04 9
             RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Strife Apr-06-04 13
         RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Mephronmoderator Apr-06-04 8
  RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Croaker Apr-06-04 10
     RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. Mephronmoderator Apr-06-04 11
     RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.. NeoRavenK7 Apr-06-04 12

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Gryphonadmin
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Apr-01-04, 06:56 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #0
 
   >I'm surprised he jumped back in as soon as he has.

Well, you know, can't hang around in the woods forever... things to do.

>One thing I can say is that
>Grissom seems to be as sharp a cookie as I remember him being but
>Catherine being more upbeat, but that could just be my memory.

I can't parse this. Do you mean you remember Cath as more upbeat than she appears here, or that she's cheerier here than you remember her?

>I was
>surprised that Grissom and Sara went along on the arrest of a guy that
>wipes out terrorist cells by himself.

("Well, we're not terrorists," says Grissom in his "think before you ask these questions, Mitch" voice. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Bad Moon
Member since Dec-17-02
290 posts
Apr-01-04, 07:15 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #1
 
  
>>One thing I can say is that
>>Grissom seems to be as sharp a cookie as I remember him being but
>>Catherine being more upbeat, but that could just be my memory.
>
>I can't parse this. Do you mean you remember Cath as more upbeat than
>she appears here, or that she's cheerier here than you remember her?

She's cheerier then I recall, but again it could just be my memory.

>>I was
>>surprised that Grissom and Sara went along on the arrest of a guy that
>>wipes out terrorist cells by himself.
>
>("Well, we're not terrorists," says Grissom in his "think before you
>ask these questions, Mitch" voice. :)

Point taken :)

------
Jon Helscher

Leo: (July 23—Aug. 22)
Your credulity will be stretched to the limit by the circumstances under which only you can control the giant robot.


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Norgarth
Member since Jun-18-02
360 posts
Apr-05-04, 11:50 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #0
 
   well, like several others who've posted, I've never seen CSI, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the story.

1 bit that I rather liked was

"Tell me something I want to hear, Greg," said Catherine.
"OK; your hair looks fabulous that way," Greg Sanders replied
agreeably.

As someone who often makes smartass comments myself, I found Greg's response to be quite entertaining.

Looking forward to whatever you put out next, however long it takes. Having finally seen Red vs Blue, I plan to go back and reread 'In for a Penny' and hopefully catch more references this time. 8)

-------------
Lead me not to temptation, for I can find it myself.

Norgarth


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Kendra Kirai
Member since May-22-16
118 posts
Apr-06-04, 05:25 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON 04-06-04 AT 05:30 AM (EDT)
 
>well, like several others who've posted, I've never seen CSI, but that
>didn't stop me from enjoying the story.
>
>1 bit that I rather liked was
>
> "Tell me something I want to hear, Greg," said Catherine.
> "OK; your hair looks fabulous that way," Greg Sanders replied
>agreeably.
>
>As someone who often makes smartass comments myself, I found Greg's
>response to be quite entertaining.

The best part about Greg as a Dantrovian, is that he's actually *that randy in the actual show* :) It's perfect! Gryph et al got all of the characters perfectly, except for Catherine...she *is* normally a little more bitter about everything.

What I kind of missed was that there were no incongrous statements made that make those who hear them go kind of '...what the hell? Did you really say that?'

Like one episode with a dead supermodel in a shopping cart...

'I've got crabs.'
'....Excuse me?'

When there's crabs on a bit of clothing found somewhere in relation to the case. :)


Sara looks *quite* adorable as a salusian (Though personally, thanks to the images of Asrial I've seen, I always imagine a humanized salusian as having larger primary ears.), but Gil is...well, somebody said in the other thread that he looks like a wolfhound, and I wouldn't argue with that. It's probably because of that predatory look he has in that photo, but still...

Gil's still a bug-nut, I'm happy to see. :) Personally, I don't really like Gil (in the source)...he always seems a bit...I can't think of the right word...a bit too much of a know-it-all. That'll do, but it's not what I'm trying for.

(And Trigger? Personally, I don't like Gil with the facefur. Maybe because I've watched him for years without it and I don't like change.)

We didn't get to see the doctor (I can never remember his name...) in this 'episode'. I've always liked him. He's kind of like Santa, if Santa routinely sliced people open and scooped out their insides in the name of justice. I definitely like him better than his counterpart on CSI: Miami..it's kind of creepy to call corpses 'baby'.


Also, somebody previously asked why nobody asked Depew about his information on the local big fire groups...the question apparently got garbled a little, and so wasn't really answered. Why (apparently) DIDN'T they get any information out of him they could about the local big fire goons so they could round 'em up and arrest them?


I missed the 'bungie' thanks in the credits, but i figured it was something similar to Oni even without it. Well, either that or he's a Saiyan, which would be....extremely unlikely, given Fearless Leader's opinion of the source series...But I was under the impression that the symbiote creature from Oni mostly works when there's damage to the body that needs repair..It didn't sound like Depew had gotten hurt at all during his first scene. (Which is why I thought 'Saiyan'...in the source, they get stronger with every fight.) But, it HAS been a while since I played Oni...I should reinstall that...


Anyhow, very good, everyone's just as they should be (Well, the CSIers at least, except for a slight variance on Cath..but then, she has good days too.) and I'm *glad* you didn't go for the 'bulletcam' scenes. Those get *extremely* gruesomein the show, which really kind of ticks me off. You settle down to watch a show that you know is going to be kinda gruesome anyhow, but then you get to seethe bones and muscle get torn and brokwn in *EXTREME, PRESUMABLY QUITE REALISTIC CLOSE-UP*. Um, ew.


As a note, that is being completely nitpicky, and having nothing to do with the story, but the show CSI is quite different than what real CSI's do. But, you know, Quincy was very unlike most medical examiners too, and Perry Mason wasn't much like real attourneys. One has to suspend disbelief for most TV shows. (For the record, I think Law and Order is abou the closest in the 'genre' to how things really work, but hey, I'm wrong more often then I'm right, so, whatever.)


EDIT: Fix for some stupid typos and expand on something


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Wedge
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Apr-06-04, 06:23 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #4
 
   >Sara looks *quite* adorable as a salusian (Though personally, thanks
>to the images of Asrial I've seen, I always imagine a humanized
>salusian as having larger primary ears.)

It's the difference between drawing and dealing with an actual photograph. Working with a real picture, the idea (for me, at least :) is to make whatever I do blend as well into 'reality' as I possibly can. My first tries at those pictures had the primary ears being larger, but they looked obviously fake. Making them smaller and less pronounced (and trying to blend them into the existing hairlines) makes them look more real. (And if anyone is curious, they're raccoon ears in both images. They were the easiest ones to work with.)

>(And Trigger? Personally, I don't like Gil with the facefur. Maybe
>because I've watched him for years without it and I don't like
>change.)

His having a beard this season allowed me to go as Grissom to the Halloween party at work last year without having to shave my own beard, so I'm all for it.

>Anyhow, very good, everyone's just as they should be (Well, the CSIers
>at least, except for a slight variance on Cath..but then, she has good
>days too.)

We're all a little confused at the "why isn't Cath bitter like she is on the show?" comments. I mean, sure, she has bad moments--they all do--but the base of her character as I see it is just self-assured and determined with a healthy dose of 'you wouldn't BELIEVE the shit I've seen' that just adds to her air of experience. Translate that to UF, where the how and why of how she got where she is (and, no, not going to go into that now, so don't ask :) isn't quite so brutal...and I think we've got her character down pretty solidly. Besides, she's too much fun to have her be sour all the time.


Chad Collier
J. Random Pixel Pusher
Digital Domain
The Captain of the Gravy Train


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Kendra Kirai
Member since May-22-16
118 posts
Apr-06-04, 08:45 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #5
 
   LAST EDITED ON 04-06-04 AT 08:53 AM (EDT)
 
>>Sara looks *quite* adorable as a salusian (Though personally, thanks
>>to the images of Asrial I've seen, I always imagine a humanized
>>salusian as having larger primary ears.)
>
>It's the difference between drawing and dealing with an actual
>photograph. Working with a real picture, the idea (for me, at least
>:) is to make whatever I do blend as well into 'reality' as I possibly
>can. My first tries at those pictures had the primary ears being
>larger, but they looked obviously fake. Making them smaller
>and less pronounced (and trying to blend them into the existing
>hairlines) makes them look more real. (And if anyone is curious,
>they're raccoon ears in both images. They were the easiest ones to
>work with.)

That's something I didn't think of, actually, the realisticness of the ears to the images... (And for the record, that wasn't meant to be a criticism of the pictures...sorry if it came off that way. Opinions of art are always a personal thing. I've seen pictures that I thought were horrible, but the artists were perfectly happy with their (to my eyes) terrible art style. To each their own.

>>(And Trigger? Personally, I don't like Gil with the facefur. Maybe
>>because I've watched him for years without it and I don't like
>>change.)
>
>His having a beard this season allowed me to go as Grissom to the
>Halloween party at work last year without having to shave my own
>beard, so I'm all for it.

Well, changes in hairstyle and beard status are always a personal taste, so whatever floats yer boat. :)

>>Anyhow, very good, everyone's just as they should be (Well, the CSIers
>>at least, except for a slight variance on Cath..but then, she has good
>>days too.)
>
>We're all a little confused at the "why isn't Cath bitter like she is
>on the show?" comments. I mean, sure, she has bad moments--they all
>do--but the base of her character as I see it is just self-assured and
>determined with a healthy dose of 'you wouldn't BELIEVE the shit I've
>seen' that just adds to her air of experience. Translate that to
>UF, where the how and why of how she got where she is (and, no,
>not going to go into that now, so don't ask :) isn't quite so
>brutal...and I think we've got her character down pretty solidly.
>Besides, she's too much fun to have her be sour all the time.

Well, that's always true. we're basing our opinion of Cath solely on what we've seen of her on the show, so we don't have your VIP worldview of her to go by. :) Cath is the one who's got the most reason to be bitter on the show, and if you've changed her past to fit UF, well, then all bets are off, aren't they? :) She certainly seems to have a healthier relationship with Lyndsay. I don't remember what season it was, but there's one where it's Lyndsay's birthday and Cath is all angsty about why she didn't want a birthday party. It was a good episode...one of the few where I've actually seen gil having *fun*. He got Lyndsay a chemistry set. :)


Edit to add:

That said, Cath certainly has the quirkiest sense of humor of the group, and I hope she's kept that. :)


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Gryphonadmin
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19261 posts
Apr-06-04, 10:21 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #4
 
   >Gryph et al got all of
>the characters perfectly, except for Catherine...she *is* normally a
>little more bitter about everything.

I just don't buy that. Either I'm watching a different show than you guys are, or I haven't gotten to the part where Cath is all bitter and stuff, or something, because I look at her and I don't see that.

>We didn't get to see the doctor (I can never remember his name...) in
>this 'episode'.

Nope. He wasn't needed; there was never any question how any of the victims in this particular case actually died. (That doesn't mean they weren't autopsied, but there were no surprises, and thus no reason to give Doc Robbins any screen time. He's got some in episode 2, though.)

>Why (apparently)
>DIDN'T they get any information out of him they could about the local
>big fire goons so they could round 'em up and arrest them?

And they would have gone into this in his initial interrogation why, exactly? For that matter, do you think the Chief sent him up to the 15th floor to play Shinobi with Nightcrawler?

>But I was under the impression that the
>symbiote creature from Oni mostly works when there's damage to the
>body that needs repair..It didn't sound like Depew had gotten hurt at
>all during his first scene.

Not having bullet holes in him isn't the same thing as not being hurt at all. Every time a person exerts himself, he does damage on some level; that's why people are sore after exercising. (In fact, that's how exercise works; you make the muscles work harder than they really want to, in the process harming them somewhat, and they get stronger in the healing process.)

It's entirely possible to get through a level of Oni without getting Konoko too badly banged up, either, but she still evolves at the end.

>As a note, that is being completely nitpicky, and having nothing to do
>with the story,

When you have a thought like this, and you know it's a thought like this?

That's the time when you don't post it.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


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Kendra Kirai
Member since May-22-16
118 posts
Apr-06-04, 12:19 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #7
 
   >>Gryph et al got all of
>>the characters perfectly, except for Catherine...she *is* normally a
>>little more bitter about everything.
>
>I just don't buy that. Either I'm watching a different show than you
>guys are, or I haven't gotten to the part where Cath is all bitter and
>stuff, or something, because I look at her and I don't see that.

Well, mostly it's when her ex shows back up and she gets jerked around by guys later on. She has a lot of reason to be bitter.

>>We didn't get to see the doctor (I can never remember his name...) in
>>this 'episode'.
>
>Nope. He wasn't needed; there was never any question how any of the
>victims in this particular case actually died. (That doesn't mean
>they weren't autopsied, but there were no surprises, and thus no
>reason to give Doc Robbins any screen time. He's got some in episode
>2, though.)

I didn't really think he was needed, just stating that he was awol this time. :)

>>But I was under the impression that the
>>symbiote creature from Oni mostly works when there's damage to the
>>body that needs repair..It didn't sound like Depew had gotten hurt at
>>all during his first scene.
>
>Not having bullet holes in him isn't the same thing as not being hurt
>at all. Every time a person exerts himself, he does damage on some
>level; that's why people are sore after exercising. (In fact, that's
>how exercise works; you make the muscles work harder than they really
>want to, in the process harming them somewhat, and they get stronger
>in the healing process.)

That's an excellent point.

>It's entirely possible to get through a level of Oni without
>getting Konoko too badly banged up, either, but she still evolves at
>the end.

Well, I think that has something to do with the (if I recall) unskippable story piece which has her, kind of...melting.

>>As a note, that is being completely nitpicky, and having nothing to do
>>with the story,
>
>When you have a thought like this, and you know it's a thought like
>this?
>
>That's the time when you don't post it.

At least I didn't make an entirely new post to do it, right?


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Strife
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Apr-06-04, 07:51 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #7
 
   >>Gryph et al got all of
>>the characters perfectly, except for Catherine...she *is* normally a
>>little more bitter about everything.
>
>I just don't buy that. Either I'm watching a different show than you
>guys are, or I haven't gotten to the part where Cath is all bitter and
>stuff, or something, because I look at her and I don't see that.

I'm with you, Gryph. I don't see her as bitter, so much as rather sharp since last season's episode, 'Lady Heather's Box.'

She's also not afraid to mention the 'large pink elephant' that's hanging around the room, so to speak....

~Strife Aileron


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Mephronmoderator
Charter Member
1763 posts
Apr-06-04, 10:26 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #4
 
   LAST EDITED ON 04-06-04 AT 10:28 AM (EDT)
 
....wow. The Chief finished that while I was working on mine.


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Croaker
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541 posts
Apr-06-04, 01:48 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #0
 
  
Quote
Viewers Like You
(a wholly owned subsidiary
of GENOM Corporation)

*shatter*

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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Mephronmoderator
Charter Member
1763 posts
Apr-06-04, 01:59 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #10
 
   >
>Viewers Like You
>(a wholly owned subsidiary
>of GENOM Corporation)
>

>
>*shatter*

Yeah, I had the same reaction. I thought it was a moment of brilliant hilarity, and complemented Gryph on it along the way.

It still makes me snicker.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"I find your lack of clue disturbing."


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NeoRavenK7
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Apr-06-04, 02:28 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: CSI: New Avalon - Locard's Exchange comments cont.."
In response to message #10
 
   Sheesh! You nearly made me shoot orange kool-aid all over my keyboard!

-NeoRaven
...who made the mistake of not reading the credits again.


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