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Subject: "Villainy!"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences Undocumented Features General Topic #2234
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Member since May-26-13
573 posts
Jun-15-14, 00:27 AM (EDT)
Click to EMail Mercutio Click to send private message to Mercutio Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-15-14 AT 01:23 AM (EDT)
So tonight, I'm talking to Phil, like you do, and he says...

"Hrm. What would you say is a top ten list of noteable villians in UF?"

And that was a legitimately hard question! I had to think about it a bit. As with most lists of this sort, I couldn't come up with a precise order, instead shaking things out into tier rankings.

Right up at the tippy top, of course, you have the big three:

  • Largo
  • Loki
  • Akio

Those three are pretty obvious, I think; there's probably not a lot of argument to be had about their place at the top, only relative positions. Largo probably belongs in the number one slot because of the enormous impact he's had on everything that came after him, even if nothing major has been done with him since last century. Akio and Loki are more fluid; Akio has had a lot more screen time and is more well-developed as a villain, but Loki was the headliner in Twilight, which is itself a front-runner for "most important and notable of the UF sub-groupings."

Coming in below them, in the second tier, you've got:

  • Surtur
  • Unicron

Neither of them has had a very large on-screen presence, but one of them is an ancient mechanical demigod from beyond time, and the other is the literal, actual Devil. Surtur was at the top of the undercard in Twilight, and Cybertron Dreams was one of the big beasts of the jungle in UF canon back in the day, so notable and important it was slated for a full rebuild rather than a scrapping.

I feel good about Surtur being this high up, especially since if you read closely you can see his hand moving behind the scenes. I'm less certain about Unicron; I may be ascribing to him more notoriety than he deserves because of his source materiel. Nontheless, that's my second tier.

Going further down is tricky. I'm going to say... we're allowed to use groups, not just individuals, assuming there's a common affiliation and theme. So in that vein...

  • The Magnificent Ten
  • The Earth Alliance

Yes, the Magnificent Ten specifically, not just Big Fire as a whole. That also was a tough call, but I feel in terms of just all-out force of presence, impact, and most importantly notoriety, it has to be the Magnificent Ten rather than their parent organization.

The presence of the Earth Alliance, of course, should need no explanation. They were gonna be on the list somewhere, it was just a question of where, and here they are.

(Fun alternative question! If you're not allowed to use groups, only people, who reps for Big Fire and the EA? I say Shockwave Alberto and Bill Clarke, although an argument can be made for Admiral Cartwright.)

Now we're moving down into the bottom third. Occupying the tier below our big Organization of Evil, we've got:

  • Roger Tremayne
  • Eidun Palpatine

... it says something about UF that actual honest-to-god Sith Lords are so far down.

Palpatine's place on the list I'm comfortable with; Tremayne I feel I have to justify. I might be accused of double-dipping, after all, wasn't he in the Magnificent Ten? Well... yeah, but only in Blades. And he was also in the Earth Alliance. Maybe he shouldn't be here? Or maybe his slot should be occupied by the Psi Corps as an organization? But he was such a scrapper, that one. No matter how many times he was cut in half he kept coming back! I sort of feel like that deserves a place on the list.

At this point I actually began to run out of steam for slot number ten. There have been a lot of villains in UF, but most of them have met untimely ends before having a chance to have a big impact! I mean... a one-note joker like, say, Carson D. Carson, definitely doesn't deserve to be on the list. Touga Kiryuu? Ennnhhhh... doesn't feel right. If Fables of the Reconstruction hadn't been thrown in the dustbin, I'd probably have gone with Windrazor, but it has been, so I didn't.

I thought long and hard about Garth Zard'al, but it was like "Mmmm.... no." Clarissa Broadbank? Maybe! Definitely a strong contender. But Clarissa is just sort of a bitch. She's certainly incredibly notable, though. I got as far as typing in her name...

And then it came to me. There was only one person who could occupy the last slot in the list of top ten notable villains of Undocumented Features. Nobody else is as perfect. That person is, of course:

  • Kei Morgan

I think that one... just speaks for itself.

Keep Rat

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Member since Dec-20-06
107 posts
Jun-15-14, 04:22 AM (EDT)
Click to EMail drakensis Click to send private message to drakensis Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list Click to send message via AOL IM  
1. "RE: Villainy!"
In response to message #0
   William Clarke as an agent of the Mysterons deserves some credibility I think.

I'd be tempted to argue for B'lanna's uncle... Klayvor wasn't it? Granted he's a bit of a tool and I'm not 100% sure I have his name right there but he's leading a Klingon Empire which has to count for something.

Kei Morgan scoring a slot... yeah, I can see that.

And then there's the Butcher of Musashi. Sure he started out as an agent of Largo but he totally ran with that. Does he deserve to be demoted to the B-String when he had three such strong appearances (the Sonset, his capture on Salusia and the return for the Battle of Zeta Cygni)?

I've given some thought about Undocumented Features structure if it was built as a TV Series or similar.

There'd be the Original Series with three seasons
1. Formation of the WDF and their early battles, with Largo as the main adversary.
2. Sonset and Exile, running through to the Battle of Zeta Cygni. The Butcher would totally be the face of evil here with Largo in the background.
3. Future Imperfect, covering Twilight and the other stories set around the turn of the century.

And then there's the shift to Symphony of the Sword, again with 3 arcs
1. Symphonies 1 & 2 with Corwin's apothesis and the salvation of Cephiro. Akio is clearly the Big Bad here, although there's the rising problem of the Earth Alliance.
2. The Valiant tour arcs, with the Tau Ceti conflicts, the disappearance of Kei, etc. A Day of Infamy/Cybertron Dreams or 2.0 thereof.
3. The clashes with Akio's power on Oriphos, whatever's happening on Diqiu and whatever-the-hell Saionji is up to.

So getting back to the theme of the thread: I'd see Largo with the Butcher as frontman, followed by Surtur with Akio as frontmen as taking up the four front slots. Loki's certainly significant in power but he doesn't get the presentation compared to the endurance of those four as nemeses of the heroes.


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Member since May-26-13
573 posts
Jun-15-14, 11:30 AM (EDT)
Click to EMail Mercutio Click to send private message to Mercutio Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: Villainy!"
In response to message #1
   Oh, geez. The Butcher. How could I forget about the Butcher?


I think I'd have to give him Palpatine's slot on the list. Balls. That's just an unconscionable oversight on my part.

William Clarke is tricky. Hell, the EA as a whole is tricky, as is Big Fire. The two groups really stand out as big movers and shakers when it comes to being villainous d-bags, but they tend to feature a rotating cast of evil dudes, or at least complete tools, who show up to represent them. Like that completely forgettable Admiral who was in command at the Battle of Titan, or Alexander Fitzcarald, and suchly. Most of them are individually pretty forgettable. It's why I chose to give them organizational slots, and believe me, leaving the Psi Corps off that list was also a stretch.

As for Klayvor... maybe, I suppose? I mean, I forgot about the Butcher, so maybe I'm not one to talk, but Klayvor isn't really very notable. He doesn't really leap to the front of someones mind. It would be a bit like putting the Kilrathi Empire on here; yeah, sure, there have been so many Kilrathi Wars that people don't even remember what number we're on anymore, but they all kinda blur together.

Keep Rat

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440 posts
Aug-17-14, 11:04 PM (EDT)
Click to EMail Croaker Click to send private message to Croaker Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: Villainy!"
In response to message #2
   The Kilrathi, I get the impression that they were more "someone for the WDF to fight when they weren't doing anything important".

There was a line in some story where a character talks about "The Nth Kilrathi war", there've been so many that they've lost track of which is which....

RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."

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