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Forum Name: The New Frontier
Topic ID: 21
#0, Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by twipper on Jul-12-13 at 11:46 AM
LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-13 AT 12:31 PM (EDT)
 
The following wall of text is the result of a 2-hour drive from KC back to Manhattan yesterday afternoon in a state car lacking anything but commercial radio (which stayed off. SiriusXM has completely spoiled me to everything on the FM bands except NPR news/entertainment programs).

Now that the destruction of the Danzig has been occurred, other Forumites have noted that the countdown to the Federation Civil War has officially started. Assuming that RTtN/FoF/Blades remain canonically stable once the revamped Day of Infamy hits, I found myself randomly musing over Palpatine’s motivations regarding his role in destroying the Federation. And I realized I simply couldn’t come up with any that made even a lick of sense.

The following list details the assets that Palpatine walked away with that we’ve seen on-screen:
•Some undefined fraction of the Electronic Arts, I mean Earth Alliance/Federation Psi Corp
•Some undefined fraction of EA/Federation war fighting material
o An as yet undefined force of current generation EA/Federation capital ships
o A similarly undefined ground force
•Other assets not yet seen on-screen

If we consider the Psi Corp remnant, while I’m sure Palpatine ensured that he abs combed with a cadre of talented Psi Corp agents, the destruction of the EA lost him the entirety of the Psi Corp support structure; its training centers, support personnel, and perhaps most importantly its recruiting base. So in at least the short- and medium-term, the Psi Corp has effectively been gutted of any real operational efficiency.

If we consider the purely military force, I think Palpatine is even more screwed. Every EA/Federation v IPO ship-to-ship action we’ve seen has led to a loss by the EA. These results indicate that the EA and the Federation as a whole had failed in its attempt to build a military force that could even approach, let alone equal, that of the IPO. Taking the original Day of Infamy as an example, I’d argue they failed to even approach parity with Salusia, Gamilon, the Kilrathi Empire, or heck, even the Irken Elite. Additionally, he again lost his entire military support structure, including even a fleet anchorage port for rest, repair, and resupply, unless he’d secured such a port prior to blockading Naboo.

For all intents and purpose, Palpatine’s blockade force around Naboo was driven off by 1) one Lord of the Great Machines, 2) one Great Alfheim Cat Dragon, 3) one Mandalorian super-weapon, 4) a handful of Force users, and 5) a completely outnumbered/out-classed local militia. This outcome indicates that his entire force is essentially useless against any of the other interstellar powers.
So why did he bother?

Speculation the first: Palpatine, being a Sith Lord, decided that the chaos inherent in destroying the Federation was a worthy goal in and for itself. But good Sith Lords don’t’ desire mere chaos, but long-term complete control. Borrowing from old-school AD$D alignment terminology, I’ve always felt that the real Sith Lords were the actual embodiment of the Lawful Evil box. So destroying the current governmental fabric without then stepping in as the new tyrannical overlord just doesn’t fit.

Speculation the second: Palpatine believed that his purloined forces would be effective enough to secure a pocket empire in the Outer Rim from which he could begin rebuilding the Santovasku Empire, or at least his image of what that empire looked like. In RTtN, we get that famous paraphrased line, ‘Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen’. Palpatine, via his Force visions, has foreseen that he will rise like a phoenix to galactic overlordship. RToN and the events seen so far in FoF would indicate that he had grossly misunderstood his visions.

Given all of the above, the final speculation that percolated up through my brain was the following:

Speculation the third: The Force was actively lying to Palpatine for its own purposes.

I don’t like any of the three above threads. They all fail the smell test in one way or another, which would indicate that Palpatine is actually playing some deep game that so far we simply don’t have the data necessary to deduce. So I admit to great anticipation at seeing how things unfold over the long term.

The moral of the above rambling: I need to remember to bring my iPod and radio transmitter when taking even fairly short work-related drives.

Brian
(bah, stupid memory of ship names...)


#1, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Terminus Est on Jul-12-13 at 01:46 PM
In response to message #0
You've left some rather large gaps here, foremost among them that he might not be acting alone. We know Akio is involved to some extent, and a relatively small logical jump ties the abductions seen in Shepard's 11 into the equation (which would fix the whole infrastructure problem quite nicely).

I'm not going to be foolish enough to suggest that I even have an inkling of what's really going down, but there are plenty of ways Palpatine could be supplementing his forces. And that's without even beginning to think about how Surtur could be influencing things.


#2, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by mdg1 on Jul-12-13 at 02:37 PM
In response to message #1
LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-13 AT 02:37 PM (EDT)
 
Don't forget the Mysterons and whichever race snatched Kei.

#4, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by twipper on Jul-13-13 at 02:12 PM
In response to message #1
>You've left some rather large gaps here, foremost among them that he
>might not be acting alone. We know Akio is involved to some
>extent, and a relatively small logical jump ties the abductions seen
>in Shepard's 11 into the equation (which would fix the whole
>infrastructure problem quite nicely).

I rather purposefully left Akio out of the mix here due to my sneaking suspicion that Utena will have dealt rather permanently with Lord Trigon well before this point. Most likely by removing his head and leaving his spleen impaled over his castle gate as a rather pointed reminder to the rest of Hell to stay out of her business. :)

Brian


#8, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Terminus Est on Jul-15-13 at 00:32 AM
In response to message #4
Fair enough as a thought, but unlikely; Akio is a freakin' cockroach, man. He just refuses to die and stay dead for any length of time.

#3, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Mercutio on Jul-13-13 at 04:35 AM
In response to message #0
This is the kind of rampant speculation I was born to take part in. :)

>Assuming that RTtN/FoF/Blades remain
>canonically stable once the revamped Day of Infamy hits, I found
>myself randomly musing over Palpatine’s motivations regarding his role
>in destroying the Federation.

What makes you think Palpatine had any role in it whatsoever?

Palpatine is playing his own game, and his "role" in destroying the Federation may have been nonexistent. There's certainly little evidence that he was involved in any way with the Federation melting down.

Lest it be forgotten, Eidun Palpatine was a political enemy of Bill Clark. Two quotes:

Indeed, on the screen, the Honourable Eidun Palpatine, Senator
for the Outer Rim Territories, was declaiming pointedly that the Corps
could not be adequately controlled on the world of its origin, and now
it was asking for enforcement power -throughout the Federation?- The
patrician face of the Senator from Naboo was dark with disapproval as
he made his opposition to this notion known in the strongest possible
terms decorum would permit.

That's from S3M2, "Per Adua." And from the now-deprecated Day of Infamy:

"Gentlebeings of the Federation Senate and Assembly," the man
said, "I have received confirmation of the death of President Clark.
This is a sad day for the Federation." This was, of course, hogwash:
not even the Psi Cops, and there were many, in the room had any love
for Clark. If they had, they would not have been here at all.

It is far more likely, in my view, that Palpatine didn't need to participate actively in the destruction of the Federation. He simply took advantage of it when it happened.

For that matter, the Babylon Foundation and Gryphon still considered Palpatine to be worth the benefit of the doubt when he pulled his little stunt on Naboo. Consider these passages from "Road Movie" Part One:

"Sir!" said the operator. "Small starship entering the
system. IFF code makes it the International Police special envoy's
transport."

The telepath raised one thin eyebrow. "Indeed. Right on
time," he added, glancing at the bridge chronometer. "I'll say this
for them, they're punctual. Hail them and make sure they've got a
comfortable approach vector."

And:

"The Federation fleet has interdicted communications and
dispatched an invasion force," said Amidala.

"What about the Babylon Foundation envoys?"

"According to Senator Palpatine, they never arrived," Amidala
replied. The Queen's eyes reproached Achika; she was an agent of the
Babylon Foundation herself, in a way, and the Queen apparently felt
that the Foundation had betrayed her.

"That's impossible," said Achika. "I spoke with Admiral
Hutchins yesterday evening. His agents were to arrive this morning.
Experts of Justice are -never- late."

When he heard about what was happening out on the Rim, Hutchins didn't send a fleet, or a TacDiv strike team. He sent envoys.

This says, to me, that Ben thought highly enough of Palpatine to give him the benefit of the doubt, and to send Experts of Justice to treat with him openly, the way you'd do so with an honorable, reasonable man you think you can talk down. Ben makes his share of mistakes, but he's not dumb: so I consider this more evidence that Palpatine was thought of throughout the Federation as a political enemy of Bill Clark and viewed as a Federation loyalist.

>The following list details the assets that Palpatine walked away with
>that we’ve seen on-screen:
>•Some undefined fraction of the Electronic Arts, I mean Earth
>Alliance/Federation Psi Corp
>•Some undefined fraction of EA/Federation war fighting material
> o An as yet undefined force of current generation EA/Federation
>capital ships
> o A similarly undefined ground force
>•Other assets not yet seen on-screen

Sounds about right, yeah.

>If we consider the Psi Corp remnant, while I’m sure Palpatine ensured
>that he abs combed with a cadre of talented Psi Corp agents, the
>destruction of the EA lost him the entirety of the Psi Corp support
>structure; its training centers, support personnel, and perhaps most
>importantly its recruiting base.

Much of which he can probably reconstitute in short order. Plenty of shoestring operations in UF are capable of being serious threats, and telepaths are no jokes.

>If we consider the purely military force, I think Palpatine is even
>more screwed. Every EA/Federation v IPO ship-to-ship action we’ve
>seen has led to a loss by the EA. These results indicate that the EA
>and the Federation as a whole had failed in its attempt to build a
>military force that could even approach, let alone equal, that of the
>IPO.

Yes and no.

In terms of hardware, the EA and the Federation had stuff that was comparable to what the IPO/WDF could bring to the table. They didn't have their flashy Zetan overtechnology or other such neat things, but Ben himself acknowledges the Federation Starfleet Galaxy-class (and it's EA equivalent, the Nova-class) as being directly competitive with their IPO/WDF counterparts.

It is true that every clash we've seen has resulted in a humiliating loss by the EA. This doesn't have anything to do with the quality of their hardware. There are two other reasons.

The first is quality of personnel. The fights we usually see don't involve average Captains; they involve James T. Kirk. Utena Tenjou. Amanda Dessler and Rina Dragonaar and their Romulan badasses. Etc. These people are superlatively good at what they do and are the ultimate force multipliers.

And on top of THAT, the Earth Alliance is increasingly being run by its political officers, which means the good people they do have (and I'd remind you that they exist; John Sheridan is out there, and the as-yet-unidentified guy in charge of that EA task force in "Renegades of Paragon" sounded like he might not be a COMPLETE muppet) can't operate at full capacity. Hanna Davidson, who was in command at Tau City, was operating with one hand tied behind her back.

The second reason is that we usually only see the EA when they fight Our Heroes, and usually Our Heroes are gonna kick ass and take names. :)

>For all intents and purpose, Palpatine’s blockade force around Naboo
>was driven off by 1) one Lord of the Great Machines, 2) one Great
>Alfheim Cat Dragon, 3) one Mandalorian super-weapon, 4) a handful of
>Force users, and 5) a completely outnumbered/out-classed local
>militia. This outcome indicates that his entire force is essentially
>useless against any of the other interstellar powers.

Well... yeah. If Palpatine could go toe to toe with the other major interstellar powers he would be doing that.

>So why did he bother?

Because he didn't know all those things would be there? All Palpatine was expecting to encounter on your list was the completely outnumbered and outclassed local militia, which, in fact, he kicked the ass of rather handily. Had someone told him all that other shit would be there, he likely wouldn't have engaged.

The reason he "bothered" with Naboo is because he wanted that Mandalorian superweapon for himself. This is a sensible thing; Mandalorian superweapons are pretty awesome. If you could big one up cheap, why wouldn't you?

>Speculation the first: Palpatine, being a Sith Lord, decided that the
>chaos inherent in destroying the Federation was a worthy goal in and
>for itself.

Again, I don't really think he had a hand in that.

>But good Sith Lords don’t’ desire mere chaos, but
>long-term complete control. Borrowing from old-school AD$D alignment
>terminology, I’ve always felt that the real Sith Lords were the actual
>embodiment of the Lawful Evil box.

This is emphatically NOT the case in the UF universe. You can be a Sith Lord and both 1) not evil, and 2) not a control freak. Rianna is a Sith Lord and her moral compass is set firmly on green. (And unlike Vader, she managed to achieve that without becoming a war criminal in the process.)

>Speculation the second: Palpatine believed that his purloined forces
>would be effective enough to secure a pocket empire in the Outer Rim
>from which he could begin rebuilding the Santovasku Empire, or at
>least his image of what that empire looked like.

This seems to be more accurate. There's a lot of space out on the Rim it's easy to vanish into. Hell, there's a lot of space to vanish into period; even highly-trafficed areas of space still have lush M-class worlds ripe for the taking even after hudnreds of years of being surveyed. Liza Shustal picks up one for her very own, for example.

>In RTtN, we get that
>famous paraphrased line, ‘Everything is proceeding as I have
>foreseen’. Palpatine, via his Force visions, has foreseen that he
>will rise like a phoenix to galactic overlordship. RToN and the
>events seen so far in FoF would indicate that he had grossly
>misunderstood his visions.

Force visions are notoriously unreliable. Canon-Palpatine did a lot of farseeing himself, and it didn't save him from getting the shaft from Vader. The Force shows you what MIGHT be, and it's colored by your own perceptions.

>Speculation the third: The Force was actively lying to Palpatine for
>its own purposes.

This seems super unlikely.

>I don’t like any of the three above threads.

Well, to tie my own reading of things together, I'd say that the simplest explanation makes the most sense; Palpatine saw the Federation's crash-and-burn coming and arranged things so that he'd end up with his own vest-pocket empire at the end.

Nothing wrong with that. You can go very, very far in the galaxy with your own small fleet and a loyal cadre of people with parapsychic talents. Look at Big Fire, they do pretty okay.

-Merc
Keep Rat


#5, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by twipper on Jul-13-13 at 02:42 PM
In response to message #3
>>Assuming that RTtN/FoF/Blades remain
>>canonically stable once the revamped Day of Infamy hits, I found
>>myself randomly musing over Palpatine’s motivations regarding his role
>>in destroying the Federation.
>
>What makes you think Palpatine had any role in it whatsoever?
>
>Palpatine is playing his own game, and his "role" in destroying the
>Federation may have been nonexistent. There's certainly little
>evidence that he was involved in any way with the Federation melting
>down.

*snip*

>This says, to me, that Ben thought highly enough of Palpatine to give
>him the benefit of the doubt, and to send Experts of Justice to treat
>with him openly, the way you'd do so with an honorable, reasonable man
>you think you can talk down. Ben makes his share of mistakes, but he's
>not dumb: so I consider this more evidence that Palpatine was thought
>of throughout the Federation as a political enemy of Bill Clark and
>viewed as a Federation loyalist.

From RTtN Part 4:
Palpatine shook his head. Tsonis fancied himself a man of
power, but he was really just a petty tyrant, using a talent bestowed
on him by genetic aberration to terrorize his subordinates and
believing it made him superior. He was useful, certainly, but
Palpatine had yet to meet a telepath who did not disappoint him. He'd
had much higher hopes for them when he'd arranged the founding of the
Psi Corps for their concentration and study.

Given that Palpatine arranged behind the scenes to both initiate/develop the Psi Corp AND arranged to disappear a significant percentage of new-build Federatin/EA capital ships and their crews indicates that he was fully involved in bringing the Federation Civil War into being.


>The reason he "bothered" with Naboo is because he wanted that
>Mandalorian superweapon for himself. This is a sensible thing;
>Mandalorian superweapons are pretty awesome. If you could big one up
>cheap, why wouldn't you?

RTtN, part 4:
"The Sith have overcome the weapons of Mandalor before,"
Palpatine growled. "If necessary they will do so again. Don't look
so surprised, Captain. Of course it was Mandalor that left the stamp
of ancient warfare on this planet. That war, like so many the
Mandalorians fought, is forgotten now - except to me. It was a defeat
that paved the way for the end of them." Palpatine smiled as if
savoring a personal memory. "A defeat meted out by the Sith. History
shall repeat itself upon Naboo, Captain."

To be honest, I think Our Lovely Lady of the Key was as much a surprise to Palpatine as it was to Corwin and Company. Naboo was in his sights primarily due to it being his home planet, I suspect. But what he thought he was going to do with once he took it remains to be seen.


>This is emphatically NOT the case in the UF universe. You can be a
>Sith Lord and both 1) not evil, and 2) not a control freak. Rianna is
>a Sith Lord and her moral compass is set firmly on green. (And unlike
>Vader, she managed to achieve that without becoming a war criminal in
>the process.)

Here you make a reasoned point. But what we know so far about Palpatine's personality is that he is a 'traditional' Sith Lord, following at least slightly the so-called Rule of Two; one Master, one Apprentice. That said, he is at least modern enough in his thinking to have multiple apprentices but, look at those he chose; not one of his apprentices that we've seen on-screen have even a modicum of Vader's, Rei's or Rhianna's control. It appears he intentionally selected his training candidates based solely on their expected inability to ever manage to successfully challenge him.


>>In RTtN, we get that
>>famous paraphrased line, ‘Everything is proceeding as I have
>>foreseen’. Palpatine, via his Force visions, has foreseen that he
>>will rise like a phoenix to galactic overlordship. RToN and the
>>events seen so far in FoF would indicate that he had grossly
>>misunderstood his visions.
>
>Force visions are notoriously unreliable. Canon-Palpatine did a lot of
>farseeing himself, and it didn't save him from getting the shaft from
>Vader. The Force shows you what MIGHT be, and it's colored by your own
>perceptions.

Again, this point is well reasoned. But Palpatine wasn't just a little wrong in his interpretations of his visions throughout RTtN, he was grossly wrong. We might be able to chalk this up to a personality flaw, in that he simply ignored any Force vision that showed him in any way not winning his objections. But his pre-Fed Civil War machinations indicate a man of considerable intelligence not prone to making that kind of mistake.

>
>>Speculation the third: The Force was actively lying to Palpatine for
>>its own purposes.
>
>This seems super unlikely.
>
>>I don’t like any of the three above threads.
>
>Well, to tie my own reading of things together, I'd say that the
>simplest explanation makes the most sense; Palpatine saw the
>Federation's crash-and-burn coming and arranged things so that he'd
>end up with his own vest-pocket empire at the end.
>
>Nothing wrong with that. You can go very, very far in the galaxy with
>your own small fleet and a loyal cadre of people with parapsychic
>talents. Look at Big Fire, they do pretty okay.

Good point, but again, a cautious man would chose as his first target some little planet at which no one would come looking for him. Not the planet he had been elected to the Federation Senate from.


Regarding the points Terminus and mdg1 make about Palpatine not working alone, I can't find a justification that at this point would ALLOW Palpatine to work with any other allies.

In the easter egg scene at the end of the original Day of Infamy, Palpatine is sworn in as the Federation President. Once in the top seat, a Sith Lord of the old school (as Palpatine is mostly represented) would be categorically incapable of making any type of alliance that would give even the perception that he wasn't the one in complete control of the alignment. Such an alliance would be a too visible example of weakness.

Brian


#6, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by simonz on Jul-13-13 at 04:54 PM
In response to message #5
>Good point, but again, a cautious man would chose as his first target
>some little planet at which no one would come looking for him. Not
>the planet he had been elected to the Federation Senate from.

Just before he crashes, Len notes to himself that Naboo typically supplies the Federation Senator from the Outer Rim Territories. In that case, going there does make sense. Remember that Palpatine isn't hiding. He's claiming to be the 'legitimate' Federation government and, as someone pointed out, everybody still has a decent enough opinion of him at this point. Naboo is enough out of the way of the heavily settled parts of the galaxy that it gives them a decent home base in a way that doesn't involve declaring war on one of the major powers. Palpatine could also claim that, as the remnant of the 'legitimate' Federation government, they're just moving shop to a more stable location while they wait for the turmoil following Clark's demise to blow over, and he probably thought he could persuade the current Queen to allow them in peacefully. With Interdictors, subspace jamming, and a heavy military presence, Palpatine probably figures that the risk of anyone being able to creditably contradict his version of How It Went Down is small enough that it's worth taking the planet regardless, and even then he can claim it was necessary during the crisis. Then he can easily throw Clark under the bus as being responsible for all the problems since that's what the IPO believes anyways, and then pressure the IPO to let them come back to Earth as the legitimate Federation government once things calm down. If Len hadn't crashed there, pulling in Corwin, Nall, Ifurita, and influencing the timing of Vader's decision to turn on Palpatine, it probably would have worked, too.

-Simonz


#7, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Peter Eng on Jul-14-13 at 03:51 PM
In response to message #6
>...it probably would have worked, too...
>

...if not for those meddling kids and their cat dragon.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#9, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Terminus Est on Jul-15-13 at 11:29 AM
In response to message #6
I think we've all forgotten one major point - the core crew at the IPO are from an earth whose pop culture included the original Star Wars franchise. So unless they've forgotten everything they ever knew about it, seeing some guy named Palpatine suddenly acquire the makings of an empire has got to be throwing up some red flags.

#10, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by mdg1 on Jul-15-13 at 12:23 PM
In response to message #9
>I think we've all forgotten one major point - the core crew at the IPO
>are from an earth whose pop culture included the original Star Wars
>franchise
. So unless they've forgotten everything they ever knew
>about it, seeing some guy named Palpatine suddenly acquire the makings
>of an empire has got to be throwing up some red flags.

I actually wonder about that, sometimes... we never see anyone of Gryph's generation surprised (or, indeed, unsurprised) when a known fictional character turned up.


#11, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by dbrandon on Jul-15-13 at 01:45 PM
In response to message #10
I may be wrong about this, but I seem to recall that the Core 4 universe reboot kind of... made a lot of that go away.

Plus, I barely remember anything but the highlights of pop culture from 30 years ago, much less 400.


#12, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by mdg1 on Jul-15-13 at 02:50 PM
In response to message #11
OTOH, I have perfect recall of theme songs for TV shows I didn't even like that much. :)

#13, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Mercutio on Jul-15-13 at 05:18 PM
In response to message #9
>I think we've all forgotten one major point - the core crew at the IPO
>are from an earth whose pop culture included the original Star Wars
>franchise
. So unless they've forgotten everything they ever knew
>about it, seeing some guy named Palpatine suddenly acquire the makings
>of an empire has got to be throwing up some red flags.

Actually, if I recall correctly, no. They don't come from that Earth anymore.

They used to. If you go back and look at the old Core and Golden Age and Exile stuff (it happens a lot less in FI) you'll notice that a lot of times the UF versions of our heroes explicitly draw on their knowledge of pop culture. Redneck got his start in UF because he found a Myrmidon in a swamp and recognized it as a Y-Wing, and RebelTech got it's start when he gave Washuu a bunch of West End Games sourcebooks and told her to make the stuff in them work.

In the now-deprecated Split Infinitive, when Ben is hurled into the Star Trek universe, he explicitly recognizes it AS the Star Trek universe. Martin Rose runs into Inspector Zenigata at one point and recognizes him as being from Lupin III. Larry Mann was incredibly nervous during his first employment interview with Largo because he'd seen BGC and knew what was coming. (And, in fact, that iteration of Larry had an enormous collection of 20th-century pop culture memorabilia specifically as a hedge against that kind of thing.)

That all changed during the Core 4 reboot. It re-wrote the universe so that all that stuff organically existed in it in the first place. In UF there never was a Star Wars or Star Trek or Doctor Who (the latter being replaced by Professor Enigma.) There are no Superman or Captain America comic books because Superman and Captain America are real guys who were active on Earth in the 30s. War of the Worlds wasn't a teleplay, it was a news report. There was never a Transformers TV series (or if there was, it was adapted from their real-life adventures after the fact.) The various CSI's were never made in their recognizable real-world formats. Babylon 5 was never made. Nor were Robotech or Macross or etc etc.

Now, some people still remember the prior iteration of the universe, I believe. But even if they do, they don't have a reference guide to it, because all the stuff that went along with that iteration is GONE. Ben may very well still remember that Star Wars was a set of movies and enormous set of novels at one point, but he can't go reference them because they don't exist anymore. So he has to run off 400-year old memories, which may or may not include the name 'Palpatine' in them. (It's never actually said on-screen, you know.)

(This is assuming they do still remember the previous iteration of the universe. It could be they were rebuilt from the ground up and have a kind of hazy recollection that there was a Universe 1.0 at one point, but don't really recall what was in it.)

Frankly, it's better this way. If this were still the 'old' universe, the sensible thing to do on Ben's part would be to collect a massive, enormous database of all media ever produced on Earth from, say, the publication of "The Blazing World" in 1666 up until around 2025 or so, and run the names of EVERY person or location he encounters that seems to be significant against it. This would lead to things like him knowing Utena's whole life story about three days after meeting her.

(As always, some of this may be inaccurate; it's based on my remembering the Word of God and is not the word itself.)

-Merc
Keep Rat


#14, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Terminus Est on Jul-17-13 at 05:19 PM
In response to message #13
*facepalm* Thank you. I had somehow completely forgotten Core 4's main events. I'll just be over here introducing my head to a wall.

#15, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Berrik on Jul-17-13 at 11:14 PM
In response to message #14
Honestly, after the EA fleet's performance in Day of Infamy, I have a hard time taking them seriously for anything. They might as well be using the original Babylon 5 classes from the actual show with no artificial gravity or inertial dampers for all the use they are. Unless Palpatine is making Omega-Xes somewhere, I don't know why he'd want them.

#16, RE: Random Musings RE Palpatine's Goals
Posted by Mercutio on Jul-17-13 at 11:54 PM
In response to message #15
LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-13 AT 11:54 PM (EDT)
 
I would submit that you are mistaken a deficiency in personnel for a deficiency in hardware. Day of Infamy, as well as other sources, makes it real real clear that the EA's (and, in fact, Starfleet's) problem is the former rather than the latter.

And even if it weren't, where exactly are you supposed to get better gear? Jyurai's treeships are rare, precious, and tightly controlled. The Republic of Zeta Cygni has a lock on Zetan overtechnology. The EA's ships are already comparable to Salusia, the Kilrathi Empire (remember, John Sheridan is a hero of a Kilrathi War) and the other major galactic powers. Palpatine don't have a lot of options here.

-Merc
Keep Rat