So a vtuber named Slicerax who's a War Thunder streamer with a day job as an aerospace engineer did a series of videos on the life and story of the F-4 Phantom that I highly recommend viewing. And as part of the research, he spent a stream reading through the "Ault Report" with his chat, this report being the one the Navy commissioned in '68 to figure out why their missiles and fighters were so shit. And I won't spoil the hilarity of late-60s bureaucrats figuring out that their entire approach to the "Missile Age" was totally borked, but I will say that they figured out that the Sparrow could only dream of being as mediocre as the Mark XIV torpedo.

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CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

He also just put up videos on the genesis of the FX / VFX / FXX programs (aka the F-15, F-14, and eventual F-16 / F-18 developments) and they're all pretty fantastic.

"Some engineer woke up one day and decided to fight god by turning a brick into a supersonic aircraft."

I've seen the F-15 referred to in print as a flying tennis court, which strikes me as both mean and perfectly fair. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

McFortner
Maxim 37: There is no such thing as "overkill".
There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload".

House flies don't have engines, though. HEYOOOO

More seriously, yeah. I love how if you look at the history of jet aviation, U.S. Navy jet fighters in particular were comically underpowered for generations (aircraft generations, not people ones), and then BAM, here comes the F-4. It still amazes me that they could pay people to operate those things off carriers. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

*rimshot*

>More seriously, yeah. I love how if you look at the history of jet
>aviation, U.S. Navy jet fighters in particular were comically
>underpowered for generations (aircraft generations, not people ones),
>and then BAM, here comes the F-4. It still amazes me that they could
>pay people to operate those things off carriers. :)

A big part of that can be laid at the feet of one company: Westinghouse. The Navy put a lot of faith (and money) in their engine development programs and paid heavily for that in missed delivery schedules and lackluster performance. Not that the Air Force got off better, it's just they had more money to spread around.

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CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

Edit: looking at Wiki, wow, they were just *always* second best to Edison and GE, weren't they.

Navy test pilot John Moore wrote a book entitled The Wrong Stuff in which, having been one of the principal test pilots of the Vought F7U Cutlass, he had much to say about Westinghouse's... uh... fine products.

At one point Moore mentioned that Vought sent one of the Cutlass prototypes back to Westinghouse complaining that something must be wrong with the engines. Westinghouse returned it a while later reporting that they were absolutely right--the engines in that particular aircraft were running at too high a temperature. They therefore tuned them to spec and made them less powerful.

Moore was involved in most of the Navy's dumbest projects of the '50s and '60s, including the Cutlass, the North American A3J (later A-5) Vigilante carrier-launched nuclear bomber, and Flex-Deck. As you might expect from that roster and his book's title, he didn't take the retelling terribly seriously. (I don't have my copy here, but one line I can mostly remember is that at one point he had to eject from an F7U off the coast of California, where it sank amid a variety of marine creatures, "most of which had never seen a Cutlass before." :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I remember reading...somewhere...a criticism of Westinghouse's jets that they barely made more power than one of its toasters.

>Moore was involved in most of the Navy's dumbest projects of the '50s
>and '60s, including the Cutlass, the
>North American A3J (later A-5) Vigilante carrier-launched nuclear bomber,
>and Flex-Deck. As
>you might expect from that roster and his book's title, he didn't take
>the retelling terribly seriously. (I don't have my copy here, but one
>line I can mostly remember is that at one point he had to eject from
>an F7U off the coast of California, where it sank amid a variety of
>marine creatures, "most of which had never seen a Cutlass before." :)

As soon as I read this, I had to run to Google because I'd remembered a story about an ill-fated Cutlass that had continued to fly after its pilot hit the silk and wondered if this was one and the same. Turns out it was not, as the pilot in that particular incident was one Lt. Floyd Nugent.

But speaking of the Cutlass, it was actually one of the candidates in an idle thought experiment I once toyed with in the back of my mind after reading about Retrotech, the idea basically being someone taking the concept of rebuilding famous Pre-Contact Earth aircraft and instead focusing on the infamous examples and asking if they could be "corrected" using the technology and building techniques acquired once Earth joined the galactic community.

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CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

I was kind of kicking that idea around in my head earlier too. Whatever its shortcomings as an actual aircraft, I don't think there's any denying that the Cutlass looked cool, and really, that's all an aerospacecraft has ever needed to be to make it in UF. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

The SF-7U "Cosmo Cutlass," the inaugural product of Retrotech's newly created Weird Technology Aerospace Force division, is a marvel blending new-age technology with classic engineering that looks every bit as futuristic today as it did in the 1950's.

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CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

This reminds me of my Transformers OCs, who I don't think I ever mentioned here but would fit right into the Weird Technological Aerospace Force as people who truly understand what it is to be a heroic failure both of design and aesthetics. Part, if you will, of the Cultural Crapness Committee, the people who identify which projects are failures with enough interesting stuff in their history for it to be worth Retrotech's time to build back better.

They are, for any interested parties:-

All-Aggro (Austin Allegro, he/him): A mighty galactic hero in the safe and roomy confines of his own head, All-Aggro thinks of himself as a master warrior and tactical genius. The truth is he's got about a 50/50 chance of winning a battle of wits with an empty room and the fighting abilities of a sweaty Brie in a trash compactor. Despite this, he's (at least a little bit by accident) actually quite a good leader. He has the utmost faith in his team of misfits, weirdos, and the mentally unconventional, and instills in them the kind of self-belief that makes them think even his plans will work. His vehicle mode is a 1974 Austin Allegro, complete with granny-underwear beige paint job and square steering wheel. Whether or not his doors all jam shut and his rear window falls out if you jack him up in the wrong place is between him, the Allspark, and the Allspark's therapist.

Detonatrix (Ford Pinto, she/her): Detonatrix is a rather less proud Autobot warrior than her team leader, and she's absolutely fine with that. She's the team's demolitions expert, and she's a genuine expert too, but she's also a thoughtful, patient, and considered person who treats everyone and everything with respect, in defiance of the stereotypes that inexplicably surround people who work with city-glassing explosives for a living. Her vehicle mode is, as one might expect, a 1973 Ford Pinto in hot rod red, which makes people think she's going to be more temperamental than she is. Being mercurial is a good way to get blown up.

Moo Juice (Lada Niva, she/her, they/them): Moo Juice is the team's quartermaster and logistics expert, and she does not tolerate jokes about mommy milkers despite being a rather top-heavy Autobot with a Friesian paint scheme. Her cool and sensible demeanour hides a depthless rage so ferocious in its intensity that people often wonder if her and Detonatrix swapped bodies, which is something that drives MJ into fits of even more apoplectic fury than normal. She has a thick Kiwi accent which, like her name and colours, is due to her vehicle mode; the Lada Niva was taken on as part of a trade deal and was therefore sold by the New Zealand Dairy Board.

Obsidian (Pontiac Aztek, she/her): Obsidian is firm in her belief that she is a slinky, seductive femme-fatale who places daggers in the hearts of all who look upon her with consummate ease, both figuratively and literally. The team would love this to be the case. It would solve many of their problems, quite a lot of which are started by Obsidian. The truth is, she's a violently insane mall ninja who once went Naruto-running through a minefield and whose attitude to stealth can be eloquently summarised as "You can't notice me if I've beaten you to death with the blunt side of my katana while screaming!". She picked the name because it sounds cool and badass; her colossal dorkitude is confirmed by her vehicle mode being a neon orange 2001 Pontiac Aztek.

Bubbles (Youabian Puma, he/him): Bubbles is a cheerful, happy-go-lucky soul who operates as the team's pointman, door-kicker, and - in his own words - bullet sponge. His irrepressible optimism is slightly undercut, in the opinions of everyone around him except (with the inevitability of tides) All-Aggro, by his gleeful acceptance of his own demise and his genuine kid-on-Christmas-morning excitement at its possibility. Some of this stems from his unique impact-reactive expanding armour that, while effective, makes him resemble a pool toy or (to the uncharitable) a Cybertronian blowup doll; rather more stems from the incredible variety of traumatic brain injuries acquired while on the job. His vehicle mode is based on the Youabian Puma, a short-lived and unspeakably ugly sports car made by a plastic surgeon currently in prison for mail fraud and on the hook for nearly six million dollars after selling dodgy skin-lightening products, because fiction writers have no monopoly on creating a world of incredibly strange characters.

Rudiarius (Proton Saga, he/him): Rudy, also known as Goober, is calm and reliable Aussie ocker of the "She'll be right, no worries!" variety. This is despite the fact that he has been subjected to the tender mercies of Cybertronian medical practitioners more times, and for more reasons, than most of the rest of the Autobots in the galaxy put together. He was once described by Arcee as "The kind of fascinating medical case study that makes you want to stand back in amazement, and preferably also in cover". He's been field-tested by every weapon in Known Space. He's been subjected to psychic assaults that exploded lesser men. He might be the only Autobot to ever have an allergic reaction to Nutella. And yet, with no logical explanation forthcoming, he still lives. His vehicle mode is a second-generation Proton Saga, specifically the Australian version also known as the Proton S16. If you know, you know.

Together they form a unit of self-described Autobot special forces currently on secondment somewhere less dangerous than the front lines of literally any combat anywhere. Together they harness their unique skills and equally unique personality disorders to defend the downtrodden, the forgotten, and the useless. They are the people who see hope where others only see failure. They are...

The Rejecticons.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

Presumably no one has the heart to tell All Aggro that.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

*cue "The A-Team" theme song*

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

I love these guys, sincerely. Especially with most of them being plausibly sourced from Anzac / South American sources. Maybe their guest star can be someone in a DiTomasso Pantera? :D

In theory, yes.

In universe, All-Aggro says it's because they're a deep cover special forces unit tasked with performing immense sabotage on the tactical, strategic, and logistical level against the enemies of freedom everywhere; it used to be the Decepticon forces, but the name stuck.

In the in-universe design rooms, it's because someone in the Autobot chain of command decided to bundle all the no-hopers into one unit where they couldn't spread any damage around and had a nasty little laugh at their expense.

In our world... Rejecticons is a much better pun than Rejectobots, at least in my opinion.

>I love these guys, sincerely. Especially with most of them being
>plausibly sourced from Anzac / South American sources. Maybe their
>guest star can be someone in a DiTomasso Pantera? :D

Facón (De Tomaso Pantera, he/him) is a warrior in the mould of the old 3WA TroCons; he's a troubleshooter in the sense that his two chief passions are a) finding trouble, and b) shooting it. Preferably with his signature weapon. He designed and built the thing himself and he's fiercely proud of it, as should be expected of a giant robot in a mechanical poncho who built a gun that fires knives that are made of lasers. Blessed with a cordial laid-back charm that reassures people that he knows what he's about, Facón wanders the galaxy as a Man With No Name kinda figure; outlaw, hero, drifter, vaquero. Those who see him have a story to tell. Those who see him twice tend to be the ones pointing a gun at his head and telling him to bugger off and cock up someone else's op. While a truly gifted fighter and reconnaissance operative, Facón's laconic demeanour and large droopy moustache masks the kind of batshit insanity that would have got him killed years ago if his enemies weren't absolutely certain he'd get himself blown to bits any day now. He's quick to anger, quicker to laugh, and even quicker to unload a torrent of laser knives from a hand cannon that always seems to be about three seconds away from exploding. He is a legend in the wandering galactic weirdo community, but the consensus among even veteran intelligence officers is clear: if you can point the mad bastard in the right direction and keep both of his brain cells occupied long enough, he's a very dangerous man. Sometimes even on purpose.

Relámpago (Zacua MX2, she/her) is a serious, dedicated mission control operative with a strongly held belief that doing the right thing for the mission is secondary to just plain doing the right thing. While this made her a pretty good fit with the UF-verse as a whole, in the intelligence communities of various places she landed a (frankly unwarranted) reputation as being a joyless nag telling veteran agents how to do their jobs from behind a desk. She does have a history of successful field operations that upheld the honour of various services; alas, people see her dumpy, oddly-shaped body that somehow only looks more like a dork in vehicle mode and look past the decorated servicewoman to see whatever they want to see in the moment. She's been kicked around various departments, organisations, and space police forces for long enough that she's worked with both Facón and the Rejecticons on a lot of clandestine operations, including a few notable instances where they were all working together on something. She has the undying respect of both the guy with the knife-gun and the beige idiot with delusions of adequacy, and while this might drive ordinary women to the kind of drinking problem that ends with the bomb squad carrying out a controlled detonation on one's liver, Relámpago is no ordinary woman. Beaten down she might be, she's not out, and she's determined to comport herself in the manner befitting an officer and a gentlewoman. Even if it kills her.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

Relámpago: beacon of sanity in a land of weird shitbox troopers.

Bacon Comics Presents:
Deadpool Team-Up: Facón

(based on a true story, by which we mean, "toned down for the public, because they'd never believe what really happened.")

>
>Even if it kills her.
>

Or they do. She's sometimes considered the possibility that they'll kill her, albeit indirectly.

Peter Eng
--
"Relámpago! Come to assist with my op?"
"Your op was in the Coreward Frontier! What are you doing on the Outer Rim?!"