I have a longer story in the works, and I've hit a bit of a block. I generally have written sequentially (other than basic notes), but that obviously means that a block is a real problem. I'm curious as to how you handle writing larger pieces especially those you know are going to be multi-part ones. Using TbS as an example, it's clear that you didn't initially expect it to be a 3-part piece (or multi-part at all), so I'm wondering how much actual writing work you've done on pieces of part 3 vs. just making basic plot notes.

Extending that further, it's clear that you have had large pieces of the Symphony plotted out for over a decade, and I'm wondering how much of the was written in scene form out of order (not asking for scene details, that would be rude) and how you dealt with integrating it later when those scenes were actually being integrated into the pieces they were intended for.

The reason I'm asking (I think, I'm still learning how my mind handles the writing process :)) is that I have future scenes going through my head, but I know from experience with what I've already written that a number of them have changed so radically from my original concept to what I actually put on "paper" when the time came that I don't know if writing them down before I got there would have been a good thing or a bad thing - the changes evolved organically, and I wonder if I would have tried to force the story to fit the original scene of I'd already written it...

So I'm just wondering how you deal with it, and if you have any advice on how to handle it for myself? And yes, I know everyone's different, and I won't blame you for anything that doesn't work (or does!) if I try it.

Thanks,
Offsides

P.S. I've already experienced some of the odd muse issues you've mentioned: I had one story just show up fully formed one morning on the way to work and refuse to let me much of anything else until I got it all out, and I had another that paced around in the green room for a couple weeks before banging on the door and telling me enough was enough and to just get on with it... :)

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>

Regarding your specific points:

The only cure I know for writer's block is to switch to a different project.
If a scene doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. I usually stick those in my mental SOS ("some other story") File.

You may start with a cool "what if" idea, but you need to take a moment and think "how would I want to see a story using this idea finish?" In my case, I know the endings for all the projects I have "active" -- right now, that's Drunkard's Walk VIII and XIII -- and most of the others I have in development. And DW2 and DW5 both had their climactic scenes (Doug vs. Quincy and the Day of Fun at the temple, respectively) laid out (and even partially written) years before I got anywhere near them. (As you should know, as you're one of my prereaders, Offsides!)

The point here is that if you know where you're going to end, it doesn't matter if you don't know anything else about the plot -- you have a fixed point of reference to work toward at all times. Plus it gives you the ability to hang Chekhov's Guns on every wall you pass if you need to.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.

I find that this has changed a lot for me over the past decade or so. I'm much more linear about actual scene construction now than I used to be.

>Extending that further, it's clear that you have had large pieces of
>the Symphony plotted out for over a decade, and I'm wondering how much
>of the was written in scene form out of order (not asking for scene
>details, that would be rude) and how you dealt with integrating it
>later when those scenes were actually being integrated into the pieces
>they were intended for.

As implied above, this used to happen a lot more than it happens now, because:

>The reason I'm asking is that I have future scenes going through my
>head, but I know from experience with what I've already written that a
>number of them have changed so radically from my original concept to
>what I actually put on "paper" when the time came that I don't know if
>writing them down before I got there would have been a good thing or a
>bad thing - the changes evolved organically, and I wonder if I would
>have tried to force the story to fit the original scene of I'd already
>written it...

This happens a lot to me, too, and the way I handle it seems to have evolved somewhat over the last decade or so. I get mental images for out-of-sequence, often even out-of-context scenes all the time, and I used to just write them out in full, no matter how wildly out of place, then find homes for them later on. This can work, and I still do it sometimes, but more recently I've noticed that what I tend to do instead is jot down framing notes and maybe bits of key dialogue (my scenes often come to me as dialogue first, and then get framed in with action later), then keep them for later. I make a lot more notes nowadays than I used to.

The thing is, though, this isn't by way of having been a conscious decision or a lesson learned. It's a change in working habits I've noticed, not one I've actually set out to make. Like I say, I still do write fully realized scenes I don't have an immediate use for sometimes. Heck, I've written scenes I knew I was never going to use when I wrote them, but did it anyway because, well, sometimes I have to.

And that's the other thing about it. Sometimes a scene like that will come along, be put in the queue, and when you do eventually get there, circumstances have changed such that it doesn't fit any more. At that point, I find, there are only two viable courses: adapt the scene to fit its newer surroundings if possible, or - and this is always a hard call - toss it. Bending the overall plot around a scene you've been polishing and hand-feeding little fruits for months or years is occasionally very tempting, but in my experience it eventually leads to angst. I've done it a couple of times and am still grappling, occasionally with great difficulty, with the long-term consequences. (Phil's over there nodding sagely right now, I bet.)

I'm not saying jumping ahead and coming back to it can't work (and I'm not even addressing the problem of stuff coming along that would totally have worked better in something you've released than what you actually went with* - that's a completely different ball of worms), just that there is a risk that you'll end up having wasted your time. I'm generally OK with that. (Heck, sometimes stuff I've had to toss on the scrap heap has suddenly and unexpectedly become useful in some other context later on.)

Mind you, all this is just me. I've never put much stock in these writers who talk about Their Processes like they're, say, bridge engineers. If bridge engineers get The Process wrong, people die. Words rearranged into different sequences: usually not the same level of serious business. :)

--G.
* Example: Phil and I were just reflecting last night that Gryphon would totally have gone to Diqiu for his self-imposed sabbatical after Kei's disappearance in Requiem for a Lensman, except that Requiem was written in 2003 and, well, time doesn't work that way. There's not much to be done about missed opportunities that are caused by the laws of physics. :)
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Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I know this is true for me, and I suspect it's rather common, but I think the most important thing is to keep writing in one form or another, rather than letting the wind out of the creativity sails. Even if it's just taking some random thing I've run across during the day and writing one of my characters' opinions of it, anything to keep a hand in, because I find if I go one day without writing, I'm going to go two days without writing. And if I go two days without writing, I'm going to go a week without writing.

"There is no transitive property
of flavor."

While writing my earlier stories I would write scene after scene, jumping around like kids hopped up on sugar on a field of hopscotch squares. I'd write a couple of really great scenes--some in the beginning, some in the middle and a definitive ending. Then I'd put what I jokingly called "literary duct tape" to give them some continuity and coherency.

That changed somewhat when I started doing National Novel Writing Month. In the context of having a deadline, I had to force myself to pay more attention to continuity and flow. I no longer had the luxury of jumping around from one cool scene to the next, then patching it up afterward. The clock's ticking and you get your 1667 words a day in.

I should point out that I do at least have a vague outline of where I'm headed with the story. I usually have a pretty good idea of what to do, but the characters often surprise me with what they will and won't do. That's not really a minus, though. If the characters are well-fleshed out, it'll be like they're talking to you. Of course, if they start saying that you should do something bad, then that's never a good sign.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

--Doc

Well, I've never written larger pieces. However, I do hang around writers who have, so I'll throw out some options.

Do you know where you're going after the block? For some writers, the answer is to write "This part is where Arisu and Kai argue and break up" and come back to it later.

For other writers, the answer is to walk away for a bit. Watch television, or make dinner, or read a favorite book. They may not look like they're working, but somehow the story organizes itself while they're looking away.

Other writers switch projects. Some will switch activities as well, going from writing to proofreading.

The only thing I'm certain of is that there is no right answer for everybody; only an answer that works for you.

Peter Eng
--
I avoid ideas. "No, really, why don't you bother that guy over there with the guitar? He's good with songs." It's the persistent buggers, the ones that consider a proper hello to be walking up to a guy and shaking his throat, who manage to make me write something.