Yeah, I've sort of fallen down the bottomless hole that is The Mighty Jingles's YouTube channel. (I went a-googling to see if there was anything out there about the Tenryū-class ships, maybe a documentary or something, and his review of same in World of Warships was one of the first hits.) It's where most of my information has come from so far. (He also has a lot of coverage of World of Tanks, which I'd already heard a bunch about from an old WPI pal who plays.)

--G.
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Pretty much the same thing happened to me the other day. Was looking for some info on the F-86 Sabre, so I popped by Youtube. One of the first videos I found was by a guy named PhlyDaily, who does videos not only for World of Warships but also War Thunder, which is another FTP game but it actually gets much deeper into the realism by modeling the innards of the tanks and planes so far in the game (ships eventually are going to be added) and putting more emphasis on picking your shots instead of just relying upon a generic HP bar.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Renegade Time Lord

I believe WoWS at least does a bit of hit modelling- while I was looking for system specs for the game, I saw a mention of the possibility of critical hits based on where the shot lands*, and I saw a video where the player was putting the Kitakami through her paces and he kept receiving "overpenetration" hits, i.e. he wasn't taking full damage because the shot tore clean through without detonating.

Also, it appears the WoWS team is asking for community input on a mascot design. I'm rather afraid to see how that's going.

*This might also have been a backhanded reference to HMS Hood the way it was stated. I can't locate the precise wording anymore, but it was something along the lines of "it's possible to sink a battleship with a single lucky hit, but it would be so rare as to be inconceivable."

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

World of Tanks does that too, if one is to believe Jingles (and I see no reason not to, since he's played... well, infinitely more World of Tanks than I have, as I've never played it and dividing by zero yields infinity). Positioning, angling your armor, knowing which bits of the other tank to shoot at etc. are all strategies he mentions frequently in his WoT videos. The effects you mention in Warships also come up a lot, particularly overpenetrating with armor-piercing ammo from the main batteries on bigger ships (battleships in particularly don't really want to be shooting at anything thin-skinned, i.e., not another battleship, with AP loaded, as it's largely a waste of time, and battleship main guns reload so slowly that it wastes a lot of time).

Interestingly, since he started doing his WoWS videos during alpha test, if you watch them in chronological order you can even sort of watch those features evolve; there was one particular patch in closed beta that changed the way armor and AP ammo worked, and several of his videos from around that time have segments dealing with the adjustments to play that resulted from the change.

On the one hand, all of this is very intriguing, and points to a well-built game; on the other hand, I am notoriously-in-my-own-mind crap at games that detailed, and the compulsory-Internet-multiplayer thing has kept me off of simpler games than that, so I dunno. Still, the call of romance and adventure on the high seas is strong, and I'm not about to go through all the convoluted gyrations necessary to attempt to play KanColle, so... :)

Also, sadly for Kitakami fans (which I suppose is mostly Ōi, but), they took her out of the game before open beta started. Turns out a cruiser that can launch 40 torpedoes is a bit, um... well, you remember the expansion pack for TIE Fighter where they introduced the thing that was just 150 million concussion missile launchers and a seat, how preposterously game-breaking that was? Like that. :)

The Kuma class is still in the game, so one could always pretend one was driving the pre-torpedo-cruiser-refit Kitakami if one were that obsessive a fan, but, yeah, "40" appears to be a valid answer to the question, "How many torpedoes is too many?"

--G.
kuma
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There appears to be a version of KanColle coming to the PS Vita, which theoretically solves* the problem of dealing with the lottery and API links etc.

*for values of solve that mean "substituting money for fiddling with it".

>Also, sadly for Kitakami fans (which I suppose is mostly
>Ōi, but), they took her out of the game before open beta started.
> Turns out a cruiser that can launch 40 torpedoes is a bit, um...
>well, you remember the expansion pack for TIE Fighter where
>they introduced the thing that was just 150 million concussion missile
>launchers and a seat, how preposterously game-breaking that was? Like
>that. :)
>
>The Kuma class is still in the game, so one could always
>pretend one was driving the pre-torpedo-cruiser-refit Kitakami
>if one were that obsessive a fan, but, yeah, "40" appears to be a
>valid answer to the question, "How many torpedoes is too many?"

I can't really say I'm surprised, considering the video I saw had the player dumping the whole load of torpedoes in one monster salvo (two, technically; it was 20 on each broadside arc, so it ended up being salvo-turn-salvo) and then wandering off to go do something else, and a couple minutes later, kill notifications would pop up.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Not being able to understand a blind bit of what's on the screen or coming out of the speakers, on the other hand, still a bit of an obstacle. :)

>>"40" appears to be a
>>valid answer to the question, "How many torpedoes is too many?"
>
>I can't really say I'm surprised, considering the video I saw had the
>player dumping the whole load of torpedoes in one monster salvo (two,
>technically; it was 20 on each broadside arc, so it ended up being
>salvo-turn-salvo) and then wandering off to go do something else, and
>a couple minutes later, kill notifications would pop up.

Given how preposterously easy it appears to be to teamkill with torpedoes in Jingles's videos, that might also have factored into the developers' thinking somewhat. An incautious KTKM driver could (and, I suspect, at some point did) wipe out half the fleet in one ill-considered spread. :)

--G.
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One of the postdocs I support plays WoWS. According to him, torpedo spam from 10-year-olds is a problem.

With a battleship or even the higher tier cruisers, when dealing with light ships (read: destroyers and lower-tier cruisers), your best bet is to switch to high explosive rounds. You can try AP, but you either want plunging shots or you want to aim for the waterline so that if you over-penetrate you might still cause him to start flooding. HE shots don't do as much damage, but they can set ships on fire, and if a fire isn't extinguished fast enough then the ship can explode. Same deal with flooding, too many sections holed or flooding allowed to go on too long will lead to sinking. Plus setting a carrier on fire puts it out of commission (i.e. can't land or launch aircraft) since what's burning is the wooden deck, though they do still have secondaries that can be up to 8in guns at the top tiers.

>Also, sadly for Kitakami fans (which I suppose is mostly
>Ōi, but), they took her out of the game before open beta started.
> Turns out a cruiser that can launch 40 torpedoes is a bit, um...
>well, you remember the expansion pack for TIE Fighter where
>they introduced the thing that was just 150 million concussion missile
>launchers and a seat, how preposterously game-breaking that was? Like
>that. :)
>
>The Kuma class is still in the game, so one could always
>pretend one was driving the pre-torpedo-cruiser-refit Kitakami
>if one were that obsessive a fan, but, yeah, "40" appears to be a
>valid answer to the question, "How many torpedoes is too many?"

Yeah, PhlyDaily does have a video showing him and a buddy taking out Kitakamis for testing. And, well, let's just say some poor bastard found out that the worst place to be is in a battlecruiser that's in the direct path of 40 torpedoes.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Renegade Time Lord

MWSoulAssassin in WoWs if you ever want to division up and I'm not busy.

Edited for some misspelling.

... as it were.

--G.
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zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

*rimshot*

Sorry, I had to.
Edit: Ninja'd by 2 minutes!
"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Been playing since the closed beta started and loved it, I'd gladly recommend the game.

Yeah, The Mighty Jingles had a pretty scathing review of the ship that basically hit those same points. I've been on the receiving end of KTKM and it's a great area denial weapon, but as the review said as long as you don't sail in a straight line for long it loses a lot of its effectiveness. Destroyers are the same way, if you make like a convoy avoiding u boats and run a zigzag pattern they're a nuisance but not usually a disaster.

Tabasc083 if anyone gives it a try.

Speaking of the C-20, first game with it yesterday. First game I met a Flat-top, and also not one but two battleships in there. And as the end of the game went...1 BB, the South Carolina(Class III), 1 CV, the Langley(of course), and 1 destroyer, the Wickes(Class III), all sunk in the span of 3 minutes or so. And the worlds largest laughter from me. I can see why people love that thing. It's a ship made of guns.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

"This thing has more guns than the average survivalist living in the hills of Utah."

--G.
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>"This thing has more guns
>than the average survivalist living in the hills of Utah."

Pretty much that, yes. At the same time...1 BB, 1 CV, 1 DD, as well as general damage on other ships.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

Heh. There aren't any WWI-vintage ships in the game that didn't also see service in WWII (and the elder St. Louis was scrapped in 1930, so), and there are some pretty strong (and not entirely surprising) indications that the US forces are represented by... well, by the hideous* undead enemies of all human life, not to put too fine a point on it. However, that's a better image, so let's go with that. :)

>or as the elder St Louis dismissively calls her 'Almirante Tamandaré'
>(in a snide 'oh so you're an Admiral, I seeeeeee' way).

"So yeah, between you and General Belgrano over there, we're set if we need to manage a South American war."

>I'm sure St Louis isn't at all jealous of the other St Louis'
>micrometically greater allocation of guns (and 'ahem' guns) or her
>exotic tan and confrontations between her, Milwaukee and Charleston
>with 'the Brazilian Admiral' and Helena have _nothing_ to do with such
>comparisons. Merely professional disagreements.

Meanwhile, St. Louis the Younger and Jintsū have a lot of awkward crossings of paths in the commissary and so on...

*In the interest of fairness, I should note that the Abyssals aren't all hideous. Hoppo-chan and Re-chan are adorable, and a few of the others have their fans.

--G.
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

"But I heard St Louis was arriving."
"I _am_ St Louis."
*Almost in tears* "But you said..."
"That rotten Almirante was mean to you, wasn't she? Just let me call Millie and Charlie..."

"Dang it, Millie, look out for the headland - oh, for pete's sake."

--G.
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Must've actually been Tatsuta. She can't be trusted.

(Coincidentally, the Tenryū class in WoWS was originally called "Tatsuta" when introduced during closed testing. Jingles mentions it in his video review of same. Similarly mysteriously, the Takao class in the game is labeled "Atago", the second ship of the class. Some have speculated that this is because Atago is a premium ship, and Wargaming are planning to introduce Takao as a regular high-tier cruiser later on.)

--G.
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PVP is also the first major bump in the difficulty curve- Agent K summed it up best there: "People are dangerous, stupid, panicky animals". It may also be the fact that I upgraded to the Chikuma at the same time as I went to PVP matches, and the Chikuma is pretty much divine punishment for not fighting beneath the flag of Freedom(tm).

Torpedoes become the next major hassle, partly because of friendly fire (cf. the "Tatsuta" incident), but also because they give you just enough time to go "well . . . shit", but not enough time to actually react before dying.

I can't really say anything as to aircraft carriers yet, because I keep getting matched into Tier V games in my Tier III Tenryu, which pretty much means my options are "hide in a corner" or "die miserably", with the occasional third option of "die miserably on your way to a hiding corner, because battleships are assholes".

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

I gather from Jingles's videos that the matchmaking engine in all the Wargaming titles is kind of a troll unto itself. :)

--G.
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

It very much is. Perfectly balanced compositions one game, squashed instantly as if by the Giant Foot of Monty Python the next.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Just yesterday I teamed up with another player, both of us in Tenryu, and whatever the rest of the team were doing the two of us managed to gang up on a Miyogi and crush it easily. We almost did that a second time but enemy reinforcements arrived and against 3 battleships and a cruiser we weren't getting away with it... oh well.

As usual, if you can group up several ships you can get much more done. In another match a couple of cruisers sneaked through a narrow channel into the enemy base area, followed by my Kawachi. The enemy ships focused on the cruisers they could see and didn't realise I was coming through too, leading to a very very shocked cruiser finding himself nose to gun with me. Eight 12-inch HE shells at point blank smashed it flat. The other team never really got initiative back and we lost only one ship that match compared to 7 of theirs getting sunk.

--G.
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The impression I get from the various gameplay videos I've seen is that carriers are basically a different game, in terms of their play mechanics; they have a top-down map view, like real-time strategy games. If that sounds appealing,* well, there you go. If not, BURNING LOVE awaits your decision.

--G.
*It doesn't to me, but mileages vary, of course.
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I can only say, get you some Kongou. As has been noted by several people, when you play carriers in Warships, you're not playing Warships. You're playing a top-down strategy game. And if you want to play top-down strategy games, there are LOTS of better top-down strategy games.

Essentially, it isn't about the ships, or even the planes. It's about sitting dead still in a corner of them map and strategizing. "If I send my planes over HERE..."

Now, clearly there are people that ENJOY that, there are carriers around, after all. But you need a special mindset, and you need to enjoy a vastly different type of game...and, there are better versions of such games, with more of a story and more choices, and just more everything.

For further info, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOL-NwvY4MM&t=25m38s

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

Strangely enough, mucking around with the carrier has made me a bit better with the Myogi I think, maybe because the chessmaster-style "I have to plan my moves this far ahead" carrier driving also translates well to the sluggish Myogi. Ultimately, I don't think I'll be getting back into carriers, because I also discovered that I can't line up torpedoes to save my life (literally!)

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Just as an aside? You want to escape the Myogi, I'm MORE than happy to take it off your hands. Got a Kawachi you could have instead...

Any time. Where-ever and When-ever you want to hand that thing off, I'll take it with the biggest smile you ever saw!

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

The worst part is, if I could buy the Kongou with Kawachi XP*, I would totally make that trade. It's not the 60-second turret traverse that's the problem. It's not the "only 6 guns" that's the problem. It's not even that 4 of the 6 are on the back, so you can't do anything useful while chasing somebody. It's all those combined with the fact that the shot fall is about as accurate as a drunk throwing darts over his shoulder that make the Myogi a pain.

*Without using doubloons, because if I was just going to throw money at the problem, I'd buy an Atago.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

I'm given to understand that that's battleship drivin' in general. Sure, your guns can shoot 20 km, but whether they hit anything you wanted them to hit at that range is purely theoretical. :)

--G.
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Strangely, long-range shots are almost better with the Myogi, because they give the enemy plenty of time to be stupid and drive into your shots. It's the medium shots that are the worst- and I watched a broadside go both over and under a St. Louis at ~5km.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Bit belatedly, and I have, oh glorious day, gotten rid of the misery that is the Kawachi. But I still need to say, there is no way, none, that would make me accept that the Myogi is a worse ship.
The Kawachi is PAINFULLY slow, with a max speed of 20.4 knots. I haven't been able to find ANY ship that is slower except the Japanese Hachidate, and that's the Tier I cruiser. It has a rudder turning speed that is 2.5 seconds faster than the Myogi. But the difference is between 17.5 and 20 seconds, so...and, the Kawachi bleeds off speed at an excruiciating rate when you do turn it, not that the Myogi doesn't.
The guns turn mindbendingly slowly. Now, I will admit that the Myogi is SLOWER at that, but, 45 seconds vs. 60 makes for 'He only managed to shoot me THREE times while my guns were turning, rather than four.' Damn faint praise.
And considering the range of the Kawachi is less than 10 klicks when you UPGRADE them, and the Myogi reaches a full 4 klicks further WITHOUT upgrading, and 5.5 when you DO...and, yes, the Myogi has a larger shot spread at the extreme...but not THAT much larger, and with another 50 per cent range...wait 3 klicks and you've got a MUCH better spread...and the Kawachi STILL isn't in range yet.
In fact, there are practically no ships that shoot shorter(well, the destroyers...but, destroyers don't SHOOT)...as has been noted, all you need to do is use superior speed and VASTLY superior range, and pretty much ANY ship can sink the Kawachi without it getting even to shoot BACK. Now, I could deal with low speed, if it had the range to hit things all the same. I could deal with short range, if it had the speed to get INTO range. But, it has neither.

Essentially, the Kawachi is slow, it's lumbering, and it's dead before it gets to shoot back at everything that's scrapping it and laughing, I hate it's very existance, and am so SO glad I don't have one any more.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

US battleships up to and including the Colorado at Tier VII are slower (in most cases much slower - South Carolina at Tier III tops out at 16.2 knots), as are the Tier IV and V US aircraft carriers. USS Langley at Tier IV can make a truly dizzying 15.9 knots, and USS Bogue at Tier V is a whole knot faster!

You've also got the pre-WWI-vintage Russian protected cruiser Авро́ра (Aurora), the Tier III premium, which does 19.6 knots. All of which is not to say that 20.4 knots isn't slow, but she's not the slowest ship in the game by a long chalk.

As an aside, the Tier I ships aren't really a fair basis for comparison to anything else in the game, since although they line up with the cruiser lines on the tech trees, they aren't really cruisers themselves - both the Hashidate and Erie classes were gunboats, smaller even than contemporary destroyers.

--G.
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Oooo-kay? I will admit that the South Carolina is slower. The Wyoming is slower at base speed, but faster in the upgraded, not but much, but enough. ALL the other US battlehsips are faster? Unless the stats vary on the US vs. EU servers? And while the South Carolina is slower, it out-ranges the Kawachi by a klick and a half. Hell, it outranges the upgraded Kawachi BEFORE upgrading.
And as for the US carriers? Well, yeah, I will admit they're slow as mighty fuck. But come on...they're not warships, they're converted cargo carriers.

>You've also got the pre-WWI-vintage Russian protected cruiser
>Авро́ра (Aurora), the Tier III premium, which
>does 19.6 knots. All of which is not to say that 20.4 knots
>isn't slow, but she's not the slowest ship in the game by a
>long chalk.

And, the Aurora is slower than the upgraded, but faster than the 'base' model Kawachi. And, since the Авро́ра doesn't GET an upgrade...well...

>As an aside, the Tier I ships aren't really a fair basis for
>comparison to anything else in the game, since although they line up
>with the cruiser lines on the tech trees, they aren't really cruisers
>themselves - both the Hashidate and Erie classes were
>gunboats, smaller even than contemporary destroyers.

Point, indeed. Really, the St. Louis isn't much more than one. But, interestingly, it can, theoretically, beat the Kawachi, by keeping out of range of her guns, and applying those massive numbers of her OWN guns.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

But, that, in my opinion is irrelevant. It's a BATTLESHIP. Chases are for cruisers and destroyers. In a battleship, you turn broadside and pummel'em. And, if they manage to get out of the 14-15 klick range? He can go off and play with the chasers, and you can find something else to shoot at, there is usually quite a bit of choice.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

Oh hey, cool. I haven't even played the game yet and I have a premium ship now. (Admittedly not a very good premium ship, if you go by Jingles, but still, a premium ship. :)

I must admit there is a certain temptation to go and buy Atago just to hedge against the possibility that they'll take her out of the store someday. I'm so sad that they'd stopped selling the TOG II months before I ever got interested in World of Tanks.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

It means you get to skip the Erie. That alone is worth the price you paid for it.

But seriously though, the Erie sucks.
"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

I grabbed one, tried it all of three times, and decided, fuck that. But, it's still money in and a free port slot.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

Ok...while I'll give you that I would probably be making even MORE noise if they were 8-10, to get to a New Mexico, you need to pass through 6 previous ships, 3 of which are BBs. By that time you should really be WELL aware of what is happening. But, I'm sadly not surprised that people are stupid higher up, too.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

The random number generator is a fickle mistress. Ask any KanColle admiral who's trying to wangle a rare ship out of the construction minigame. :)

--G.
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Had to fight 3 Atlantas (might as well be equipped with long range napalm cannons) and a Pensacola, they all started off firing HE because HE is just OP that way, after a while they switched to AP, you could hear the shells bouncing off the armor), ended up killing most of them (one Atlanta was killed by someone else), ended the match, 71 HE hits received, never ONCE got set on fire.

Wish I knew what I did/who I sacrificed to please RNG so much, I want that luck again.

Just as in World of Tanks, you get XP and credits for losing, too. Not as much as for performing well, but you get a few just for showing up. Lose enough games and you're at Tier 10, even if you've managed to learn nothing... all it takes is a sort of delusional persistence, and online games have no shortage of that in their user communities. :)

--G.
that's the royal "you" of course, not you you
-><-
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

So, essentially...I'm royalty?
...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!