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Subject: "(S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences Symphony of the Sword / The Order of the Rose Topic #435
Reading Topic #435, reply 46
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Jun-13-14, 08:19 AM (EDT)
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46. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments"
In response to message #45
>Azana's flame doesn't have to be blue. It's entirely possible
>that she's not using it in the ring, specifically because she doesn't
>need the tsuris.

I'd have loved to see the reaction from the crowd, but yeah, given how rare it is, that'd have caused...speculation.

>>>There was a growing cognitive dissonance there that she wasn't ready to
>>>think about "out loud" just yet; and even if she did, it would only be
>>>to deem it inappropriate on several levels.
>>Yes! Yes, it is, Korra. There are weird grooming implications involved
>>given the fact that you helped raise the boy.

I thought I was the odd one out when I told myself this was a bad, bad idea.

>I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to work, given that they
>haven't seen each other in six years, but regardless, it is something
>like one of her concerns (or would be, if she'd actually thought about
>the matter in words, which she hasn't so far). However, at the
>same time, I think the situation is somewhat less straightforward than
>you're reading it to be. It has... a lot of levels, not all of them
>obvious at first look.

We'll see where this goes, but I will be blunt: so far it's got a squick factor. I'll explain more below.

>>It would be like if
>>Gryphon were to decide to make a move on Raven, only even
>... Well, one significant difference I can think of off the top of my
>head is that Raven's not an adult. (As far as anyone knows. She
>doesn't really know how old she is, but as of 2410 she seems to
>be about sixteen.) Or a, you know, fully accredited Norse god. Also,
>there's the whole ninja-hell-commando master-apprentice thing, and
>that semitranscendent mystic bond thing that happened at the end of
>Blood Ties, and - yeah, actually, y'know what, not seeing the
>resemblance at all, actually.

The age/maturity issue isn't it. Raven isn't quite ready for a relationship, sure, but that's entirely due to her upbringing, not her age. She needs social acclimatization first rather than maturity. And she's slowly improving.

What IS the issue is the master/apprentice, or in this case more of a parent/child relationship. Korra is not teaching Corwin, sure, and her age is not an issue, but she said it herself when she said she wasn't interested in Meelo because she changed his diapers. No matter how long they both live, there's always going to be a sense that she has moral authority over him. That sense will never go away and it means they can be friends, sure, but anything more comes across badly.

>>>"I just have to give it some thought," Utena went on. "Some...
>>>diplomacy... may be in order," she added with a little grin and a wink.
>>... and now Utena and Anthy are collaborating on this one. Cripes.

There's no jealousy on the part of either one? At all?

>In fairness, they collaborate on more or less everything these days.
>It's kind of part of their deal. Plus:
>>>A glance sufficed, between the Rose Prince and her wife, for the
>>>one to ask a silent question and the other to answer it: No, not yet.
>>Not ever, hopefully.
>That rather depends on what it's not yet time for, which is not
>in evidence here. I mean, give Anthy and Utena credit for one thing,

Gryphon, I respect you too much to pull punches here. What's in evidence, so far, is the beginnings of romance. If that's not what happens...well, good. But that's what it looks like and that's what's squicking me.

>at least: However they address what they have observed, they'll want
>to do it carefully. It's a matter of some considerable delicacy, and
>it's got connections to a number of other things that all need to be
>taken into account. The last thing they want is to address one thing
>and break something else in the process - the entire structure
>has to be looked after.

In other words, their marriage can't be hurt by bringing Korra into it. But Korra already was acting, not as a friend to Utena, but as a parent (when Utena was on the cliff crying), and that was a very well-done, logical, and appropriate scene. I've seen no indication that Korra likes Utena or Anthy that way (even though Korra -did- like Asami, so gender isn't a factor) and we already know Utena is basically straight with the sole exception of Anthy. Between that and the jealousy thing I mentioned above, I'm not at all sure why they would be for anything beyond friendship between Corwin and Korra.

>For instance, they weren't present to hear Azana's observations to
>Anne in the noodlery scene in Prologue - "Kaitlyn's brother
>seems to unlock all that" - but they will have noticed something like
>it themselves; indeed, it's what Anthy noticed had started going away
>a bit in the first place. However they proceed, they'll want to put
>that back if they can.
>For the record, what's going on here is so complex I haven't even
>completely shaken it down myself yet, but one thing I can say
>is that, if you're worried that U&A are looking for a quick and final
>resolution to the problem, uh, don't be. They are well aware that
>precipitate action (for all that it's kind of Utena's m├ętier)
>would do a lot more harm than good, and the last thing they want is to
>do harm.
>(Mind you, that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't indulge in a
>bit of gentle mischief now and then, once they've stabilized the
>situation... )
>>Y'know, what with Corwin getting hitched and all, I wonder if Juri and
>>Kaitlyn are ever gonna get married.
>Well... ever is a long time. Juri is, as you note, not real
>comfortable with the concept generally, and Kaitlyn can take marriage
>or leave it. It's only a piece of paper to her. It's not as if they
>live in a society where if you're not married they won't let
>you jointly buy a house or check into a hotel or anything, nor are
>they likely to be concerned about legitimizing the children anytime
>soon. If other folks want to make the gesture for symbolic or
>spiritual or even legal (looking at you, Amanda and Devlin) reasons,
>that's great, she'll be in the front row, but her own life is in no
>way incomplete without it.

Now this makes perfect sense, and it's what I figured. Neither one of them is hurting for cash, after all. Though Miki is a part of all that. =) Not sure they get much time together, though, as busy as they all are.

>> when
>>EPU has fights that are meant to simply be an awesome fight (Corwin
>>probending, for example) as opposed to ones that are meant to be
>>spiritually or emotionally significant in some way
>For the record, I'm reasonably sure this one was supposed to be both.
>>This was a decent movement, on its own, but the Suite as a
>>whole is starting to drag just a bit.
>I've addressed this elsewhere in this same thread, and don't feel like
>going over it again here, so in this spot I'll just point to that one
>and say: Yeah... so I've been told.

*nod* No worries.

>>I'm hesitant at making this sort
>>of pronouncement without the entire thing being out (I've been burned
>>before) but while this installment wasn't bad, it was remarkably
>Hmm. You think? 'Cause I thought there was quite a bit going on. I
>mean, it's called Familiar Spirits for a reason, and almost
>everything that happens here touches that theme in one way or another.
> Just to take three examples, the ice dodging scene is far more than
>"sailing porn", the Rose Duel was intended to mean a number of
>different things, and you may not have a good feeling about
>Anthy's "oh hey" moment and what Utena's reaction to it may mean, but
>that doesn't make it not plot.


>Then there was Lhakpa-Nyima, we learned a few things about Karana and
>Azana, there's setup for what Anne's going to be up to once the school
>year's done... and that's the stuff that isn't meant to be
>hidden hooks for stuff you'll only realize was set up here later on.
>No, "starting to drag a bit," I'll take that one and roll with it as
>best I can, but I don't think I'm havin' "remarkably plot-free".

It had a bit less plot than some pieces but was in no way devoid of plot. I think it feels that way solely because we had several pieces with similar plot ratios in a row. Honestly, I'm not bothered by it at all and, despite my earlier comments am very much looking forward to the continuation.


this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
let everything be destroyed


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 (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments [View All] JeanneHedge May-30-14 TOP
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Mercutio May-30-14 1
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments JeanneHedge May-30-14 3
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 2
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments JeanneHedge May-30-14 4
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 5
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments JeanneHedge May-30-14 6
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Offsides May-30-14 9
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Polychrome May-30-14 7
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 8
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Polychrome May-30-14 10
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 11
                  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Polychrome May-30-14 12
                      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Terminus Est May-30-14 13
                          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 14
                              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Bushido May-30-14 17
                                  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Peter Eng May-31-14 21
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Matrix Dragon May-30-14 15
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-30-14 16
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Mercutio May-31-14 18
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin May-31-14 19
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments junipermoderator May-31-14 20
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments sideways Jun-02-14 22
                  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-02-14 23
                      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments The Traitor Jun-02-14 24
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments DaPatman89 Jun-05-14 28
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Senji Jun-02-14 25
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-05-14 29
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Star Ranger4 Jun-05-14 26
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-05-14 27
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments TheOtherSean Jun-05-14 30
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-05-14 31
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments starless Jun-06-14 32
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-06-14 33
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments zojojojo Jun-06-14 34
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Droken Jun-07-14 35
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Blackbird Jun-07-14 36
                  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-07-14 37
                      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Peter Eng Jun-07-14 38
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Offsides Jun-09-14 39
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Croaker Jun-09-14 40
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-09-14 41
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Croaker Jun-09-14 42
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments pjmoyermoderator Jun-09-14 43
   RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Mercutio Jun-13-14 44
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-13-14 45
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Verbena Jun-13-14 46
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-13-14 49
              RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Astynax Jun-14-14 52
                  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Gryphonadmin Jun-14-14 53
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments BobSchroeck Jun-13-14 48
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments BobSchroeck Jun-13-14 47
      RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments Croaker Jun-13-14 50
          RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits Comments The Traitor Jun-13-14 51

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