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Subject: "(S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences Symphony of the Sword/The Order of the Rose Topic #437
Reading Topic #437
Peter Eng
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Jun-14-14, 07:01 PM (EST)
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"(S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
 
   (Because I didn't want to break the previous post)

Verbena:
>I'm not at all sure why they would be for anything beyond friendship between Corwin and Korra.

Maybe they aren't. But Korra's pulling away from showing any kind of affection towards Corwin, without even thinking about it. She's aware of him as a mature male, and one who resembles a guy who died years ago. Sure, Corwin's probably among the hardest people to kill ever (Detian and God of Mecha - what a genetic inheritance), but we already know she's having trouble with watching people grow old and die around her.

If she's pulling away from Corwin for any reason besides the appearance of the thing, I'd guess it's because being the only person in Dìqiú with her longevity makes it hard for her to risk loss, even if pulling away like this will make matters worse for her. (Losing friends hurts, therefore do not have friends. Great for not having to mourn friends, makes life suck worse than going to funerals ever will.)

Even if it isn't anything more than appearances, how long can she do this unconsciously before she stops? Will she settle on being at arm's reach, or will she unwittingly push Corwin away, just to make things look right?

This isn't just some personal romance thing. Corwin, Anthy, and Utena made a promise about this back in What's Past is Prologue. If I had to bet on one of those three breaking a promise, or Surtur being the drummer for Spinal Tap in 2413, I'd pre-order the Spinal Tap tickets.

Mercutio:
>Azana taking the ring for the first time with her flashy new blue flame...

It might not be MLB-legal. There's limits on how hot the flame can get, remember. It's possible that the easiest way to avoid questions of whether Azana's allowed to sling blue flame or not is by not using it during an event. Even if it is tournament-legal, the hearings and decision-making needed to decide that fall under Gryphon's "doesn't need the tsuris" description quite nicely.


Peter Eng
--
Meet the new post, same as the old post.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
(S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II [View All] Peter Eng Jun-14-14 TOP
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II rwpikul Jun-15-14 1
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II JeanneHedge Jun-15-14 3
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II Gryphonadmin Jun-15-14 4
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II JeanneHedge Jun-15-14 2
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II Gryphonadmin Jun-15-14 5
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II The Traitor Jun-16-14 6
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II Gryphonadmin Jun-16-14 7
                 RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II The Traitor Jun-16-14 8
                     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II Gryphonadmin Jun-16-14 10
     RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II Offsides Jun-16-14 9
         RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II Vorticity Jun-18-14 11
             RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II Gryphonadmin Jun-23-14 13
  RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II Proginoskes Jun-19-14 12

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rwpikul
Member since Jun-22-03
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Jun-15-14, 10:21 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #0
 
   >Mercutio:
>>Azana taking the ring for the first time with her flashy new blue flame...
>
>It might not be MLB-legal. There's limits on how hot the flame can
>get, remember. It's possible that the easiest way to avoid questions
>of whether Azana's allowed to sling blue flame or not is by not using
>it during an event. Even if it is tournament-legal, the hearings and
>decision-making needed to decide that fall under Gryphon's "doesn't
>need the tsuris" description quite nicely.

Another possibility, assuming the blue flame is within the rules, is that she is holding it back. While it might give her an edge in general, it is likely to be a _big_ advantage in the fight she first pulls it out.

It would sort of be like a hockey game where you suddenly realize that one of the opposing players is an in his prime Wayne Gretzky, Bobby Orr or Maurice Richard.

--
Chakat Firepaw - Inventor & Scientist (Mad)


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JeanneHedge
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Jun-15-14, 10:35 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #1
 
   >Another possibility, assuming the blue flame is within the rules, is
>that she is holding it back. While it might give her an edge in
>general, it is likely to be a _big_ advantage in the fight she first
>pulls it out.

Does she have conscious control over it yet? Can she call it on demand, or does it only come when under duress?


Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for Tianxia
"Never give up, never surrender!"



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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-15-14, 11:00 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #3
 
   >>Another possibility, assuming the blue flame is within the rules, is
>>that she is holding it back. While it might give her an edge in
>>general, it is likely to be a _big_ advantage in the fight she first
>>pulls it out.
>
>Does she have conscious control over it yet?

Yes! I mean I think so... There are definitely no animals in there, though.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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JeanneHedge
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Jun-15-14, 10:34 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #0
 
   Ok, here I go sticking my nose in again...

I'm another who took the whole Corwin-Korra scene as unintended. At least it really twanged my squick-o-meter. Might have been because Corwin used one of the classic (as in old-time) lines when he asked Korra to let her hair down. I did do an internal eye-roll - setting up a harem Corwin? Like father, like son, open marriage with many friends with benefits and all?

I'm not real clear if Korra knows why she's acting hand's off with Corwin either (or realizes what she's doing). Utena and Anthy will make Korra know it's ok to get touchy-feelie again, but I gotta wonder if they'd put a stop to anything beyond that.

In the original thread I wrote "A nice piece, with many character developing vignettes, along with actually seeing some things hinted at or promised earlier (such as ice dodging). All in all, it gave me the feel of setting things up for a big payoff in the next part". But I also agree with what others have noted - it's slow, as have been the last few. I don't mind that much. As I wrote, I've had the feeling something big is being set up.

But please don't go all HGTV and give us micro-detail of building a house. How much longer will Nall visit or be visited to let the reader know he's still angsting? Let stuff like that go on in the background - unless it's actively advancing the plot, it just brings what forward movement the plot may have to a screeching halt.

At this point, I'm not even sure what the overall story arc is for this part of S5. Lots of little things are going on - the honeymoon and subsequent Tour of Diqiu, with child; the drug cartel; Anne learning to fire bend, after a fashion; building a vacation home; new friends for the Avatar; pizza on Diqiu. Will Anthy end up an air bender (after a fashion)? Korra's got a new team, but what's she going to do with them besides hang out? Where's a serious Big Bad for them all to go against? (surely not Azula) Nothing going on that obviously links, and nothing going on that's enough to sustain a series by itself. The only thing that seems semi-ominous to me is the reveal of back doors between Valhalla and the Spirit World. Is that foreshadowing something serious? (Nordic pantheon baddies invade Diqiu?) Lots of little observations and questions, which I don't expect to be answered here.

Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for Tianxia
"Never give up, never surrender!"



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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-15-14, 11:20 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #2
 
   >I'm another who took the whole Corwin-Korra scene as unintended. At
>least it really twanged my squick-o-meter.

I gotta admit I don't quite understand this reaction. Even if it was what you guys thought it was, I could see thinking one or the other or both of them was being a bit of a cad and a bounder, depending on the circumstances, but not getting all oogy about it. The guy's a grown man and - kind of significant in this context - a Norse god. To paraphrase L.P. Hartley, Asgard is a foreign country: they do things differently there.

>Might have been because
>Corwin used one of the classic (as in old-time) lines when he asked
>Korra to let her hair down. I did do an internal eye-roll - setting up
>a harem Corwin?

Well, no, he really did just want to see what she looked like with her ponytail down. With Corwin it often actually is just as simple as that. (SEE ALSO back during his brief residency in Cephiro, when he took Kozue for a late-night test drive in the 'Vette in order to... test his repairs to the 'Vette.)

He liked the result, yes, and he wasn't shy about saying so, but he likes the Western Electric Model 500 telephone, too, that doesn't mean he's planning to leave Utena for one. (Now that you could feel free to find oogy.)

>I'm not real clear if Korra knows why she's acting hand's off with
>Corwin either (or realizes what she's doing).

Hmm, I thought I'd made it fairly plain in that sequence that she didn't consciously realize what she was doing or why.

>Utena and Anthy will
>make Korra know it's ok to get touchy-feelie again, but I gotta wonder
>if they'd put a stop to anything beyond that.

As ever, it would depend on the context. (The eventuality is presumably in the "to be burnt if and when we get to them" sub-folder of Anthy's extensive "bridges" file.)

>But please don't go all HGTV and give us micro-detail of building a
>house.

I'm not sure how I'd even go about that, although it's worth pointing out that there is the corresponding risk of someone complaining that the house construction was glossed over and/or told-not-shown. (cf. when I skipped most of the workaday school stuff in A Fire to be Lighted and people were all, "eww, montages." :)

>At this point, I'm not even sure what the overall story arc is for
>this part of S5.

At this point I think I can only answer this with a snippet of a favorite scene from Doctor Who.

THE DOCTOR
(shouting)
Watch out for the disinfectant!

ROSE
The what?

THE DOCTOR
(louder)
The disinfectant!

ROSE
(louder)
THE WHAT?

THE DOCTOR
(louder still)
THE DISoh you'll find out.

:)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
1020 posts
Jun-16-14, 07:28 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #5
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-14 AT 07:30 AM (EDT)
 
>he
>likes the Western Electric Model 500 telephone, too, that doesn't mean
>he's planning to leave Utena for one. (Now that you could feel
>free to find oogy.)

He sits with the main body cradled in his lap, a scented candle balanced carefully on the dial and some rose petals strewn around the place. He awaits the call. He hears the phone's new ringtone, the old bell replaced with the silky-smooth jazz stylings of Kenny G. He answers, taking time to stroke the crimson plastic of the receiver. He listens to the voice within.

"Hey, you," he says, his voice husky and wanting.

"Corwin..."

A look of confusion spreads over his face like an oil slick. "Wait wait wait, back up. What? You're not Utena."

"I know, I know, I can't be her... Corwin, please, please don't be mad at me-"

"Seriously, who is this? I get one phone call, that was the arrangement we made-"

"It's me, Corwin. It's D."

"I don't know a Dee," he growls. His special time has been ruined. "I'm going to hang up now. How in the name of Muspelheim you even got this number, seriously, what is even the hell..." He trails off, remembering where he is, and makes to put the receiver down.

"Wait! Please!" The voice on the phone is desperate. "I'm D! You've used me for so long t-to help you! Think in Roman numerals!"

Confusion is replaced with understanding. "... Five hundred. Huh."

"You got wasted one night and I woke up a sentient being. Tech gods. Whatcha gonna do? Except hang up, that would be bad, don't, don't do that."

"My life is weird."

"You're in a committed relationship with two b-beautiful women and yet you're sitting alone talking to them via a sentient t-t-telephone, and you're only realising this now, bucko?"

"Point. Wait, you have a stutter?"

"A, a little. You thought it would be funny."

"... Why?"

"See prior remarks about being wasted."

"My life really is weird."

"Word."

There's silence for a little while, and then D speaks. "So... what happens now?"

"Now..." he gets comfortable, lying on his back and stretching like a cat in a sunbeam, "now we keep talking. Just you and me."

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

Yes, yes, recursive fanfiction ist verboten, but what else am I to do with material like that?


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-16-14, 08:01 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #6
 
   There, you see? Now that would be oogy. (Albeit preposterously out of character. The very idea that Corwin would replace the bell of a Model 500 - one of the best parts! - with anything, but particularly weedy whitebread sax stylings? Absurd. Some days you guys make me feel like the German doctor in the Tim Burton Batman. You zee vhat I haff to VORK vith, Mr. Napier.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
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Jun-16-14, 08:31 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #7
 
   I don't see you doing a better version!

This is probably because you are a rational human being, but whatever, the point still stands.

Except that it doesn't.

Um... uh-oh.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

I wasn't entirely serious about the whole thing, but hey, Awful British Sex Comedy is a trope for a reason...


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-16-14, 02:17 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #8
 
   >I don't see you doing a better version!

No, no you don't. I cannot in any way dispute this point.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Offsides
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Jun-16-14, 01:58 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #2
 
   >Ok, here I go sticking my nose in again...
>
>I'm another who took the whole Corwin-Korra scene as unintended. At
>least it really twanged my squick-o-meter. Might have been because
>Corwin used one of the classic (as in old-time) lines when he asked
>Korra to let her hair down. I did do an internal eye-roll - setting up
>a harem Corwin? Like father, like son, open marriage with many friends
>with benefits and all?

If it was anyone other than Corwin, I'd say you're right. But he's been shown time and time again to have absolutely no bleeping clue that his straightforward approach could be interpreted in some other manner, especially as regards relationships with members of the opposite sex. Also, he both of them were clearly very tired when their internal filters were not at 100%, which might have led to some conversation that could have been a bit embarrassing in the morning, but that's not the same as either of them intending to push things any further than they did (or even that far, assuming someone clues Corwin in to the potential alternate interpretations).

>I'm not real clear if Korra knows why she's acting hand's off with
>Corwin either (or realizes what she's doing). Utena and Anthy will
>make Korra know it's ok to get touchy-feelie again, but I gotta wonder
>if they'd put a stop to anything beyond that.

I suspect their main intent is to get Corwin and Korra to simply act naturally around each other, neither pushing them to do anything nor being held back by themselves or anyone else. As has been proven many times, Utena and Anthy both subscribe to Feynman's wife's philosophy: "What do you care what other people think?" So what if outsiders might interpret things in a manner that is less than flattering. They'll know the truth, and that's all that matters to them. I suspect there's also a bit of Utena being reminded of Anthy holding back, and not wanting any part of it. Corwin won't do anything to intentionally hurt either Utena or Anthy, and they know it. Therefore, why not take steps to resolve things between Corwin and Korra?

>In the original thread I wrote "A nice piece, with many character
>developing vignettes, along with actually seeing some things hinted at
>or promised earlier (such as ice dodging). All in all, it gave me the
>feel of setting things up for a big payoff in the next part". But I
>also agree with what others have noted - it's slow, as have been the
>last few. I don't mind that much. As I wrote, I've had the feeling
>something big is being set up.

I can't disagree, but I also didn't really pay attention to it when I first read it. Not every piece can be all edge-of-the-seat thrillers. Besides, I've learned over the years to never underestimate Gryphon's ability to set something up that nobody saw coming, and have the seeds of it planted years beforehand...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


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Vorticity
Member since Feb-6-12
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Jun-18-14, 10:11 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #9
 
   I was finding myself increasingly irked by what appears from the outside to be a budding romance between Corwin and Korra. The way he's interacting with her is not all that different between the way he acted with Utena in Symphony 1, and well, we know the signs.

And the potential that Utena and Anthy might even be accepting of it seemed even more strange, because it's really too soon. They've only known Korra for a few weeks, so my Mary Sue alarms were starting to go off. But when I got to this line, I finally got the picture:

> "Yesterday, you welcomed the three of us - " (gesturing to Anthy
> and Corwin) " - into your tribe and your family. Tonight... "
> Pausing, she raised her left hand, holding it in a fist against
> her chest for a moment; then, with a smile, she said, "Tonight it's our
> turn," extended the hand to Korra, and opened it. On her palm, a silver
> ring inlaid with the Duelist rose crest glinted in the firelight - much
> like Korra's eyes, as they widened in surprise.

The Trinity's relationship has always been complicated by others. Those Rose Seal rings represented engagement rings to Anthy originally -- and Juri, Miki, and definitely Saionji act as if they still do to some degree. Even if the meaning of the rings has changed, they still represent the same kind of deep commitment.

So even if it does go in a romantic direction, I guess I'm okay with it, because they're already in a strange situation. If it's romantic friendship without the full relationship, that would be fine too. But I think I need to trust that Anthy will figure out the right thing to do.

I have to say, I really like the way that Anthy has turned out. She adds a lot of subtlety that much of the cast is lacking (looking at you Utena and Corwin and Korra), providing the long term strategy to everyone's tactics. She also happens to simultaneously be an archetype of the sweet maiden, the loving mother, the strong warrior, and the evil witch simultaneously. I don't even know how that's even possible, but there it is.

Anyway, good job writing Anthy, because she's hard to understand. I don't think I understood her character at all until Page of Swords, when Devlin commented on how very deep her emotions run. She's like Aunt Bell, but a little bit Evil.

I have a couple of comments related to the fact that I've never watched any Avatar or Korra. When the Rose Duel exhibitions happen, I never really care that much about the outcome -- I just like the cool fight scene. But this time? Boy was I glad that Utena beat Korra. After a long divergence into Diqiu, it felt like Utena was finally taking the plot back. After all, she's the Rose Prince, you gotta deal with it.

Second, I feel like I had trouble visualizing the new characters in the Suite. I don't know if it's because I glossed through the descriptions when they happened (who are all of these random new people and why do I care?), or because the descriptions weren't meaningful to me ("looks like she's from the Fire Nation"... ok?). Maybe I'm just a stupid reader. But maybe a few reminders of the characters' appearance wouldn't hurt.

Anyway, it's been a long detour, but things like that happen in life, so I'm not gonna fret about that. The story must flow. Thanks for all the entertaining stories, including this one.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-23-14, 08:52 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #11
 
   >Second, I feel like I had trouble visualizing the new characters in
>the Suite. I don't know if it's because I glossed through the
>descriptions when they happened (who are all of these random new
>people and why do I care?), or because the descriptions weren't
>meaningful to me ("looks like she's from the Fire Nation"... ok?).

I'm hoping more the former than the latter, if only because I'd like to hope I wasn't quite that vague about most people on first meeting (and that if I did say something as open-ended as that, I'd at least have followed it with an outline of whatever the character the semi-omniscient narrator was following at that moment thought that meant).

Be that as it may, there are a few illustrations showing some of the original characters (mostly by Phil, over on the SOS staff images page), and others are specifically said to resemble various canonical-source characters precisely so looking up images of people they resemble is possible (cf. Azana's occasionally-striking resemblance to Azula, of whom there are... a lot of pictures available) - so there are tools, it just sometimes requires a bit of homework. :)

Others are a bit more oblique, I admit. Karana, for instance, is based on an unused test design for Korra, though in UF she obviously doesn't dress so exactly like her most of the time.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Proginoskes
Member since Dec-3-09
173 posts
Jun-19-14, 01:49 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: (S5M4) Familiar Spirits - Comments II"
In response to message #0
 
   I initially read more into the Corwin/Korra interactions than Gryphon wrote. I wasn't squicked at the difference in experience, but faintly disturbed at the extreme speed with which the relationship seemed to be changing. Then I remembered that Gryph &co. are better writers than that, reread it to get what they actually meant, and firmly told my brain to stay out of the Shal-Mari sewers.


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